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iamlucky13
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:01 am

Opus99 wrote:
Question from me. Do we expect to see the 777X at this years Dubai Airshow? (Which is confirmed to be going ahead)


I don't have any concrete information, but since apparently there's no rush on flight testing, it seems like it would be little trouble for Boeing to send one over.

It will be a great opportunity for Tim Clark to make more critical remarks of ambiguous veracity or prematurely release financially material information. Boeing wouldn't want to miss out on that.
 
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WoodysAeroimag
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:43 am

TropicalSky wrote:
i'm seeing that WH004/N779XZ has been doing alot of sorties recently...has it began NAMS testing?
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE4


BOE4 Departing on a test flight on Mar 2nd
ImageN779XZ Boeing 777-9 - C/N 65800 / LN 1587 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr
Tracking MAX Production https://737-max.blogspot.com/
 
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WoodysAeroimag
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:46 am

BOE2 / N779XX departing on a functional test flight before heading to Yuma
ImageN779XX Boeing 777-9 - C/N 64241 / LN 1574 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr

ImageN779XX Boeing 777-9 - C/N 64241 / LN 1574 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr
Tracking MAX Production https://737-max.blogspot.com/
 
oschkosch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:12 am

Opus99 wrote:
Question from me. Do we expect to see the 777X at this years Dubai Airshow? (Which is confirmed to be going ahead)


I would have some doubts if that Airshow really goes ahead or not.
:stirthepot: :airplane: "This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys" :airplane: :stirthepot:
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:40 am

Can anyone comment to the predicted cruise climb profile of the 777X? Because the 77L/77W cruise low, especially when with a heavy payload...even towards the end of a flight.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
Special
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:48 am

Pellegrine wrote:
Can anyone comment to the predicted cruise climb profile of the 777X? Because the 77L/77W cruise low, especially when with a heavy payload...even towards the end of a flight.

IIRC the 77W in particular flies low due to its high wing loading as it generally has a relatively small wing compared to its size & weight. The 777X on the other hand has a much larger wing with the same MTOW so should cruise higher. In terms of figures I’d estimate maybe 2-3K feet higher on average.
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:21 pm

Special wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Can anyone comment to the predicted cruise climb profile of the 777X? Because the 77L/77W cruise low, especially when with a heavy payload...even towards the end of a flight.

IIRC the 77W in particular flies low due to its high wing loading as it generally has a relatively small wing compared to its size & weight. The 777X on the other hand has a much larger wing with the same MTOW so should cruise higher. In terms of figures I’d estimate maybe 2-3K feet higher on average.

I am amazed that the 77W was so efficient with that high wing loading and also did not have the landing problems that the other airliner with much higher than normal wing loading had, the MD-11. The 77W had a wing loading of 804 kg/m2, whereas the MD-11 had 884. In comparison, the A330 has a wing loading of 644 kg/m2. All figures are max. takeoff weight divided by wing area. The MD-11 had to go to relaxed stability (moving the CG envelope back) and use computer aided stability enhancement as well as reducing control surface area in order to achieve reasonable efficiency, which led to higher approach and landing speeds and was a factor in several accidents. The 77W, in spite of having only slightly lower wing loading was for many years the absolute king of long-haul efficiency without having to resort to any of those games, and has an absolutely unblemished safety record. Any thoughts on that?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
hbjnd
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:35 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Can anyone comment to the predicted cruise climb profile of the 777X? Because the 77L/77W cruise low, especially when with a heavy payload...even towards the end of a flight.

I'm pretty sure the 779 has about the same wing loading as the A35K so probably a similar cruising altitude.

779: 775,000lbs/5,562ft^2=139.34lbs/ft^2
35K: 696,661lbs/4,998ft^2=139.39lbs/ft^2
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:39 am

WH003 went on a six hour flight. Half of it around 5K ft and half at 38K feet. Start of NAMS?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:08 am

N779XX completed the longest test flight yesterday. 10hrs and 4 minutes
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:56 am

What altitude have they gone up to? 38K is a little low.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:03 am

Noshow wrote:
What altitude have they gone up to? 38K is a little low.

LOOL, i am glad that phase was put to bed a long time ago!
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:14 am

It is about what they currently do. They are not exactly talking about what they do and have been shy to report certain details after the initial ground test issue.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:35 am

Noshow wrote:
It is about what they currently do. They are not exactly talking about what they do and have been shy to report certain details after the initial ground test issue.

Oh, you're being serious? I mean in relation to the first part, they went up to 41K on that flight, and they have been up to 43,100 multiple times.

Also, i'm not sure what reporting you are looking for
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:35 am

if memory serves me i believe WH003/N779XY will be the NAMS aircraft

Opus99 wrote:
WH003 went on a six hour flight. Half of it around 5K ft and half at 38K feet. Start of NAMS?
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:21 pm

https://simpleflying.com/qatar-airways- ... -customer/

QR says they are now the launch customer for the 777X and they will receive their first in 2023. This has come from Akbar btw

“Qatar Airways is also the launch customer of the Boeing 777X aircraft and is actively working with Boeing on the design and performance specification for this new aircraft type.”

“We will take the 777X whenever it is ready, as soon as it is ready. I think Boeing has notified us that there will be a delay on the delivery of those aircraft until 2023, so in the year 2023 we will receive our first three 777X aircraft.”
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:43 am

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2021/04/paine- ... il-14.html

A few 779s have gone back into the factory for rework. Including a6-EZD (which has engines installed by the way.) Does anyone have any insight what this rework is about? Could it be some of the regulatory changes?
 
wesk
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:15 am

Opus99 wrote:
http://kpae.blogspot.com/2021/04/paine-field-april-14.html

A few 779s have gone back into the factory for rework. Including a6-EZD (which has engines installed by the way.) Does anyone have any insight what this rework is about? Could it be some of the regulatory changes?

I don’t have any information about it but I would assume that they’re in for the reinforcement work some of the frames have been in. They probably would also be doing the regulatory changes.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:10 am

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/13 ... 25347?s=21

Matt suggesting maybe this could be another test frame? I think it’s the one going to Dubai for testing
 
gdavis003
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:25 pm

N779XW made a quick stop at BYH today, of all places https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N77 ... /KBYH/KROW
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:37 pm

https://twitter.com/flightglobal/status ... 46852?s=21

https://www.flightglobal.com/flight-int ... 46.article

If you want a picture of Heather Ross (- deputy chief pilot on the 777X) sitting in the cockpit of a 777X
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:19 pm

I've read through the posts and haven't seen this question asked ..

The strengthening that the 777X planes are undergoing... is that at all related to the decision to carve out the fuselage ribs to allow the 4" greater interior width? Is this strengthening related to the cargo door failure, and is that thought to be related to the changes in the fuselage ribs (even if those changes do occur above the floor level)...? I have not encountered any reason for the strengthening and where it is occuring...
learning never stops...

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Pythagoras
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:50 am

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
I've read through the posts and haven't seen this question asked ..

The strengthening that the 777X planes are undergoing... is that at all related to the decision to carve out the fuselage ribs to allow the 4" greater interior width? Is this strengthening related to the cargo door failure, and is that thought to be related to the changes in the fuselage ribs (even if those changes do occur above the floor level)...? I have not encountered any reason for the strengthening and where it is occuring...


From a story printed in the Seattle Times on November 27, 2019:

But as Boeing personnel along with six FAA observers watched from the windows of a control room, at 1.48 times limit load — 99% of ultimate load — the structure gave way. Under the center fuselage, just aft of the wing and the well where the landing gear wheels are stowed, the extreme compression load caused the plane’s aluminum skin to buckle and rupture, according to the person familiar with the details.

The resulting depressurization was explosive enough that workers in the next bay heard it clearly. One worker said he heard “a loud boom, and the ground shook.”

That then caused secondary damage: The photos show that the fuselage skin split part of the way up the side of the airplane, along with areas of bent and twisted structure that extended through the area around a passenger door.

A day after the incident, based on incomplete information, The Seattle Times and other media outlets incorrectly reported that a cargo door had blown out.


The relatively good news for Boeing is that because the test failed so explosively at just 1% shy of meeting federal requirements, it will almost certainly not have to do a retest. Regulators will likely allow it to prove by analysis that it’s enough to reinforce the fuselage in the localized area where it failed.


https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-777xs-fuselage-split-dramatically-during-september-stress-test/
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:37 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
[quote="FiscAutTecGarte".... I have not encountered any reason for the strengthening and where it is occuring...


From a story printed in the Seattle Times on November 27, 2019:

.... photos show that the fuselage skin split part of the way up the side of the airplane, along with areas of bent and twisted structure that extended through the area around a passenger door....media outlets incorrectly reported that a cargo door had blown out.


...Regulators will likely allow it to prove by analysis that it’s enough to reinforce the fuselage in the localized area where it failed.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-777xs-fuselage-split-dramatically-during-september-stress-test/


Thank you for the references... I missed the blown cargo door retraction by the media and was operating under the wrong assumption since...
learning never stops...

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UA857
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777-8 status?

Sun May 09, 2021 10:16 am

With the 777-9 being delayed to 2023 will the 777-8 still happen? Given that the 779 is not suited for ULH routes and is more suited as a 744/A380/77W replacement and a A35J competitor will Boeing continue the 778 as a 77L replacement and a competitor for the A359ULR?
 
MileHFL400
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Re: 777-8 status?

Sun May 09, 2021 3:10 pm

UA857 wrote:
With the 777-9 being delayed to 2023 will the 777-8 still happen? Given that the 779 is not suited for ULH routes and is more suited as a 744/A380/77W replacement and a A35J competitor will Boeing continue the 778 as a 77L replacement and a competitor for the A359ULR?



Yeah probably, as the next 777F will be based off it.
Thanks and best Regards
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Revelation
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Re: 777-8 status?

Sun May 09, 2021 4:11 pm

UA857 wrote:
With the 777-9 being delayed to 2023 will the 777-8 still happen? Given that the 779 is not suited for ULH routes and is more suited as a 744/A380/77W replacement and a A35J competitor will Boeing continue the 778 as a 77L replacement and a competitor for the A359ULR?

Not sure this falls under testing/production, probably should be looking at things being produced now rather than speculate in this thread.

For instance, this came across my twitter feed today:

Wow, check out the size difference between the 777-9 and 737. Also you can fit a Boeing 737 fuselage through the new GE9X engine. Photo by: David Ryder #777X #737


Image

Ref: https://twitter.com/b777xlovers/status/ ... 12/photo/1

Such an impressive aircraft, IMO.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 4:27 pm

What a beast of an aircraft, long live the 777
 
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kmz
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Re: 777-8 status?

Sun May 09, 2021 5:08 pm

Revelation wrote:
UA857 wrote:
With the 777-9 being delayed to 2023 will the 777-8 still happen? Given that the 779 is not suited for ULH routes and is more suited as a 744/A380/77W replacement and a A35J competitor will Boeing continue the 778 as a 77L replacement and a competitor for the A359ULR?

Not sure this falls under testing/production, probably should be looking at things being produced now rather than speculate in this thread.

For instance, this came across my twitter feed today:

Wow, check out the size difference between the 777-9 and 737. Also you can fit a Boeing 737 fuselage through the new GE9X engine. Photo by: David Ryder #777X #737


Impressive yes, but hopefully more a hot cake than the B737-7...

Image

Ref: https://twitter.com/b777xlovers/status/ ... 12/photo/1

Such an impressive aircraft, IMO.
 
xwb777
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 11:42 pm

[threeid][/threeid]Why haven’t Boeing given an approximate delivery date for the B777-9? Is it becuase they aren’t sure about the tests and the tests results or becuase they want to give themselves some extra time to commit for extra testing/experiments?

Can they re-redesign the aircraft if they find any serious issues? When will Boeing be able to announce or share the final specifications of the aircraft?
Last edited by xwb777 on Sun May 09, 2021 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 11:45 pm

xwb777 wrote:
Why haven’t Boeing given an approximate delivery date for the B777-9? Is it becuase they aren’t sure about the tests and the tests results or becuase they want to give themselves some extra time to commit for extra testing/experiments?

Can they re-redesign the aircraft if they find any serious issues?

They’re already re designing parts of the aircraft
 
hbjnd
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 4:24 am

Opus99 wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Why haven’t Boeing given an approximate delivery date for the B777-9? Is it becuase they aren’t sure about the tests and the tests results or becuase they want to give themselves some extra time to commit for extra testing/experiments?

Can they re-redesign the aircraft if they find any serious issues?

They’re already re designing parts of the aircraft


Anything other than the section of the fuselage that blew open?
 
Western727
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 3:19 pm

Question: why on the 779 are doors L3/R3 located more aft than that of the 77W? It appears as if doors L4/R4 were kept in roughly the same position relative to the 77W while the 3rd doors were "forced" aft. I realize looks aren't that important, but the last 3 sets of doors appear awkwardly crowded compared to the forward two sets of doors, so I'm curious about the why.
Jack @ AUS
 
Noshow
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 3:22 pm

More seats cramped in the back so more passengers to evacuate from close to the tail. A front compartment with sleeper seats is less crowded.
 
Western727
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 3:26 pm

Noshow wrote:
More seats cramped in the back so more passengers to evacuate from close to the tail. A front compartment with sleeper seats is less crowded.


Sensible, thanks, but why wasn't that done with the 77W to begin with?
Jack @ AUS
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 3:33 pm

Western727 wrote:
Question: why on the 779 are doors L3/R3 located more aft than that of the 77W? It appears as if doors L4/R4 were kept in roughly the same position relative to the 77W while the 3rd doors were "forced" aft. I realize looks aren't that important, but the last 3 sets of doors appear awkwardly crowded compared to the forward two sets of doors, so I'm curious about the why.

You actually have it backwards- The L/R3 doors were brought forward. The over wing exits (L/R3 on the 77W) were deleted to free up space and weight, and the doors aft of the wing moved forward so the aircraft still meets exit spacing requirements (exits can’t be more than 60’ from each other).

L/R4 in that picture are optional exits, not every 777-9 has them. They are in case the operator wants additional seating capacity, and placed there as stated because that is where Y is and don’t want to break up premium seating area. Here is a 779 without those doors:

 
JohanTally
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 3:39 pm

xwb777 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]Why haven’t Boeing given an approximate delivery date for the B777-9? Is it becuase they aren’t sure about the tests and the tests results or becuase they want to give themselves some extra time to commit for extra testing/experiments?

Can they re-redesign the aircraft if they find any serious issues? When will Boeing be able to announce or share the final specifications of the aircraft?

It's really hard to decipher whether the delay is a redesign issue, more scrutiny in certification or just a flat out lack of demand for VLA aircraft with full recovery not expected until 2025 if ever.
 
Opus99
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 3:41 pm

JohanTally wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]Why haven’t Boeing given an approximate delivery date for the B777-9? Is it becuase they aren’t sure about the tests and the tests results or becuase they want to give themselves some extra time to commit for extra testing/experiments?

Can they re-redesign the aircraft if they find any serious issues? When will Boeing be able to announce or share the final specifications of the aircraft?

It's really hard to decipher whether the delay is a redesign issue, more scrutiny in certification or just a flat out lack of demand for VLA aircraft with full recovery not expected until 2025 if ever.

Let me put this way. More scrutiny is causing a redesign and that is line with demand anyway. Demand is not the major driver here even though there isn’t much because had the plane been ready Boeing would’ve forced some deliveries due to contract agreement.
 
Western727
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 4:52 pm

Polot wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Question: why on the 779 are doors L3/R3 located more aft than that of the 77W? It appears as if doors L4/R4 were kept in roughly the same position relative to the 77W while the 3rd doors were "forced" aft. I realize looks aren't that important, but the last 3 sets of doors appear awkwardly crowded compared to the forward two sets of doors, so I'm curious about the why.

You actually have it backwards- The L/R3 doors were brought forward. The over wing exits (L/R3 on the 77W) were deleted to free up space and weight, and the doors aft of the wing moved forward so the aircraft still meets exit spacing requirements (exits can’t be more than 60’ from each other).

L/R4 in that picture are optional exits, not every 777-9 has them. They are in case the operator wants additional seating capacity, and placed there as stated because that is where Y is and don’t want to break up premium seating area. Here is a 779 without those doors:



Thank you, Polot. That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know 779s with only 4 sets of doors existed, either.
Jack @ AUS
 
JohanTally
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 7:45 pm

Opus99 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]Why haven’t Boeing given an approximate delivery date for the B777-9? Is it becuase they aren’t sure about the tests and the tests results or becuase they want to give themselves some extra time to commit for extra testing/experiments?

Can they re-redesign the aircraft if they find any serious issues? When will Boeing be able to announce or share the final specifications of the aircraft?

It's really hard to decipher whether the delay is a redesign issue, more scrutiny in certification or just a flat out lack of demand for VLA aircraft with full recovery not expected until 2025 if ever.

Let me put this way. More scrutiny is causing a redesign and that is line with demand anyway. Demand is not the major driver here even though there isn’t much because had the plane been ready Boeing would’ve forced some deliveries due to contract agreement.

Is this Boeing or 777X specific or will all future programs take 4 or 5 years of flight testing? If this is the new norm it might make launching future aircraft more prohibitive. Which systems are requiring a redesign?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 8:27 pm

JohanTally wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
It's really hard to decipher whether the delay is a redesign issue, more scrutiny in certification or just a flat out lack of demand for VLA aircraft with full recovery not expected until 2025 if ever.

Let me put this way. More scrutiny is causing a redesign and that is line with demand anyway. Demand is not the major driver here even though there isn’t much because had the plane been ready Boeing would’ve forced some deliveries due to contract agreement.

Is this Boeing or 777X specific or will all future programs take 4 or 5 years of flight testing? If this is the new norm it might make launching future aircraft more prohibitive. Which systems are requiring a redesign?

I'm not sure why you say this is an issue of flight test duration.

The bulk of what we know is in #189 above: viewtopic.php?t=1455929&start=150#p22636013

This was in January of this year, and shortly thereafter the slip was announced.

There are several articles on this, here's a snip from one that gives the CEO's statements:

Boeing has revised its development schedule for the 777X to reflect a late 2023 first delivery and resumption of shipments of the 787 Dreamliner late in the first quarter as the company’s widebody programs continue to address technical snags and market softness. Speaking Wednesday during the company’s fourth-quarter 2020 earnings call, Boeing CEO David Calhoun explained that the 777X delay centers on three main factors, leading with an updated assessment of global certification requirements influenced by the 737 Max grounding.

“We’re working closely with global regulators on all aspects of 777X development,” said Calhoun. “This involves listening to all their feedback and applying lessons learned from our experiences on the 737 Max program recertification and applying it to our 777 certification plans. It also involves making prudent design modifications as necessary to meet the various global regulators' expectations.”

As part of its assessment, Boeing decided to make “certain modifications” to the aircraft design involving both software and hardware changes to the actuator control electronics, he explained, reflecting the company’s “current judgment of global regulators compliance expectations.”

Ref: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -late-2023

He goes on to give the other two factors, the covid crisis reducing the demand for long haul aircraft and the airline's requests to defer deliveries.

I think the "current judgment of global regulators compliance expectations" suggests frustration on getting the regulator to clearly communicate their desires, but given they are still working through the aftermath of the MCAS crisis, they have no choice but to wait things out, even if this means waiting till late 2023 or beyond for first delivery.

I think it's fair to say that a lot of this is due to the fact that the regulators are naturally going to heavily scrutinize Boeing in the aftermath of the MCAS tragedy.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 8:37 pm

Western727 wrote:
Thank you, Polot. That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know 779s with only 4 sets of doors existed, either.


You only need the fifth door if you intend to have more than 440 seats. Adding the fifth door allows up to 495 seats.
 
Western727
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 10:18 pm

Stitch wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Thank you, Polot. That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know 779s with only 4 sets of doors existed, either.


You only need the fifth door if you intend to have more than 440 seats. Adding the fifth door allows up to 495 seats.


Are there any 773s or especially 77Ws (which typically have fewer seats) with only 4 sets of doors? I don't recall ever seeing any. Assuming there aren't any, why wasn't/hasn't that been offered as an option?
Jack @ AUS
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 10:55 pm

Western727 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
Western727 wrote:
Thank you, Polot. That makes a lot of sense. I didn't know 779s with only 4 sets of doors existed, either.


You only need the fifth door if you intend to have more than 440 seats. Adding the fifth door allows up to 495 seats.


Are there any 773s or especially 77Ws (which typically have fewer seats) with only 4 sets of doors? I don't recall ever seeing any. Assuming there aren't any, why wasn't/hasn't that been offered as an option?

No there isn’t. The 773/W needs all 5 doors for exit spacing requirements, and Boeing never went through the trouble of developing and certificating a 4 door layout.

With the 773A, 5 doors were needed to satisfy the Japanese customers using the plane on domestic routes, and since the plane was aimed at being a large regional hauler Boeing wanted to make sure airlines had the ability to stuff in a lot of seats. The 77W just inherited the layout to save costs. With the 779 always intended primarily for long haul where such high density is less common Boeing decided to space things out so a 5 exit pair was optional so airlines that don’t need it are not carrying around the weight and have more space in cabin to play with.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 294
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 1:24 am

Revelation wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Let me put this way. More scrutiny is causing a redesign and that is line with demand anyway. Demand is not the major driver here even though there isn’t much because had the plane been ready Boeing would’ve forced some deliveries due to contract agreement.

Is this Boeing or 777X specific or will all future programs take 4 or 5 years of flight testing? If this is the new norm it might make launching future aircraft more prohibitive. Which systems are requiring a redesign?

I'm not sure why you say this is an issue of flight test duration.

The bulk of what we know is in #189 above: viewtopic.php?t=1455929&start=150#p22636013

This was in January of this year, and shortly thereafter the slip was announced.

There are several articles on this, here's a snip from one that gives the CEO's statements:

Boeing has revised its development schedule for the 777X to reflect a late 2023 first delivery and resumption of shipments of the 787 Dreamliner late in the first quarter as the company’s widebody programs continue to address technical snags and market softness. Speaking Wednesday during the company’s fourth-quarter 2020 earnings call, Boeing CEO David Calhoun explained that the 777X delay centers on three main factors, leading with an updated assessment of global certification requirements influenced by the 737 Max grounding.

“We’re working closely with global regulators on all aspects of 777X development,” said Calhoun. “This involves listening to all their feedback and applying lessons learned from our experiences on the 737 Max program recertification and applying it to our 777 certification plans. It also involves making prudent design modifications as necessary to meet the various global regulators' expectations.”

As part of its assessment, Boeing decided to make “certain modifications” to the aircraft design involving both software and hardware changes to the actuator control electronics, he explained, reflecting the company’s “current judgment of global regulators compliance expectations.”

Ref: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -late-2023

He goes on to give the other two factors, the covid crisis reducing the demand for long haul aircraft and the airline's requests to defer deliveries.

I think the "current judgment of global regulators compliance expectations" suggests frustration on getting the regulator to clearly communicate their desires, but given they are still working through the aftermath of the MCAS crisis, they have no choice but to wait things out, even if this means waiting till late 2023 or beyond for first delivery.

I think it's fair to say that a lot of this is due to the fact that the regulators are naturally going to heavily scrutinize Boeing in the aftermath of the MCAS tragedy.


Thank you for this Revelation. I've heard the statements from STC and U-turn Al but I hadn't noticed Calhoun's statement. Do you suspect it is Boeing trying to assess what will be needed for regulatory approval that is the bottleneck? Is it more of a documentation and training issue or starting over the certification because grandfathering won't really be accepted for the 777X?
 
RoyalBrunei757
Posts: 216
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Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 3:46 pm

Emirates Chairman Sheikh Al-Maktoum indicates that they are in talks with Boeing, re-assessing their fleet requirement and may consider swapping some of its order for 126 B777X to more 787. However nothing is concrete at the moment, the airline is due to report its annual results for the financial year ended March 31.
Link
 
EK7777
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:59 am

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed May 19, 2021 11:43 am

Testing is quite slow nowadays and WH002 has been MIA since April 7th.

Any insider info about why it hasn't flown since then?
 
VV
Posts: 2163
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed May 19, 2021 11:49 am

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Emirates Chairman Sheikh Al-Maktoum indicates that they are in talks with Boeing, re-assessing their fleet requirement and may consider swapping some of its order for 126 B777X to more 787. However nothing is concrete at the moment, the airline is due to report its annual results for the financial year ended March 31.
Link


Emirates has only 115 orders for 777X according to the latest Boeing orders and deliveries data.

Has there been any change on their orders since the time they reduced their orders from 156 to 115?
 
Opus99
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing 777X Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed May 19, 2021 11:54 am

VV wrote:
RoyalBrunei757 wrote:
Emirates Chairman Sheikh Al-Maktoum indicates that they are in talks with Boeing, re-assessing their fleet requirement and may consider swapping some of its order for 126 B777X to more 787. However nothing is concrete at the moment, the airline is due to report its annual results for the financial year ended March 31.
Link


Emirates has only 115 orders for 777X according to the latest Boeing orders and deliveries data.

Has there been any change on their orders since the time they reduced their orders from 156 to 115?

No change. At this point they should just make the switch, this has been going on for over a year
 
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hotelbravo
Posts: 95
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Re: 777-8 status?

Wed May 19, 2021 12:23 pm


Image

Ref: https://twitter.com/b777xlovers/status/ ... 12/photo/1

Such an impressive aircraft, IMO.


At 76.73 m long the 779 is 43 cm longer than the 748 so will be the longest airliner yet.
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