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Dutchy
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Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 5:57 pm

KLM will start Austin - Amsterdam on the 28th of March 2022, after a delay of 2 years. Nothing to strange, but given a population of 2million in the Austin area and a large community of young people and a large high-tech industry, why is it that Austin is only served by 3 European carriers in 2022?

Only Lufthansa (Frankfurt), British Airways (London Heathrow) and KLM (Amsterdam) will have a direct connection from the European side. It seems odd to me, the demand (after Corona) should be there.

Sourcee in Dutch
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Jshank83
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 6:00 pm

Dutchy wrote:
KLM will start Austin - Amsterdam on the 28th of March 2022, after a delay of 2 years. Nothing to strange, but given a population of 2million in the Austin area and a large community of young people and a large high-tech industry, why is it that Austin is only served by 3 European carriers in 2022?

Only Lufthansa (Frankfurt), British Airways (London Heathrow) and KLM (Amsterdam) will have a direct connection from the European side. It seems odd to me, the demand (after Corona) should be there.

Sourcee in Dutch


You have cities with almost 3 million people and no flights to Europe. So 3 for a city that size is pretty good.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 6:07 pm

Dutchy wrote:
KLM will start Austin - Amsterdam on the 28th of March 2022, after a delay of 2 years. Nothing to strange, but given a population of 2million in the Austin area and a large community of young people and a large high-tech industry, why is it that Austin is only served by 3 European carriers in 2022?

Only Lufthansa (Frankfurt), British Airways (London Heathrow) and KLM (Amsterdam) will have a direct connection from the European side. It seems odd to me, the demand (after Corona) should be there.

Sourcee in Dutch



That's about enough service they can sustain, they are larger US cities that still have minimal to no service.

Example PHX only has daily AA & BA to LHR and seasonal DE to FRA and that's a metro area of 5,000,000
 
Murdoughnut
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 6:10 pm

Agree with others - three carriers providing service from a non-leisure market to Europe is well above most similarly positioned markets.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 6:11 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
KLM will start Austin - Amsterdam on the 28th of March 2022, after a delay of 2 years. Nothing to strange, but given a population of 2million in the Austin area and a large community of young people and a large high-tech industry, why is it that Austin is only served by 3 European carriers in 2022?

Only Lufthansa (Frankfurt), British Airways (London Heathrow) and KLM (Amsterdam) will have a direct connection from the European side. It seems odd to me, the demand (after Corona) should be there.

Sourcee in Dutch


You have cities with almost 3 million people and no flights to Europe. So 3 for a city that size is pretty good.

Indeed. IND/MCI/CMH/SAT/PIT/SMF/STL/CLE are all larger metro areas and lack nonstop service to Europe.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 6:19 pm

Dutchy wrote:
why is it that Austin is only served by 3 European carriers in 2022?


Because the hub ops of DFW and IAH exist. Why does BRU have so little TATL service? AMS, LHR, CDG and FRA.
 
Babyshark
Posts: 310
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 6:27 pm

Austin will grow over the next year but right now they have rather anemic demand right now.

Source me going to Austin a lot before and after covid.
 
RvA
Posts: 519
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 7:13 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
why is it that Austin is only served by 3 European carriers in 2022?


Because the hub ops of DFW and IAH exist. Why does BRU have so little TATL service? AMS, LHR, CDG and FRA.


Makes sense. Interestingly BRU seems to manage 6 airlines serving about 15 destinations across the Atlantic. But I think for Austin having IAH and DFW and other hubs further away offer connections to many more places it makes sense. If you want to go to Madrid from Austin you can choose to connect in Europe or connect via a hub nearby. Seems sensible to me indeed. BA, KL and LH have hubs big enough that it’s easier to support an operation like this. But who would fly to say Madrid? Iberia? Delta? Market just isn’t there and onwards markets via Madrid or Austin are too limited to help I would imagine.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6422
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 8:11 pm

AUS underserved????

Seems to me that a metro area of 2 million and healthy tourism/tech demand, three European carriers is plenty.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
WN732
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Tue May 25, 2021 11:53 pm

We were also served pretty heavily by DY, and at one point, by multiple destinations. Even with that KLM was coming to our market.
 
Q
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Wed May 26, 2021 12:44 am

Maybe AUS-NRT who knows probably in 2023 or 2024 if ANA or JAL want to go. I think AUS should fly to Spain someday Iberia or others.

Q
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Wed May 26, 2021 12:54 am

Be interesting to see what eqp AUS gets from BA when they get back.

Were using a 744 with plans to scale down to a 77W, which became a 4class 77E, which then became an A35K. At the same time, BA was scheduled to have a 78X.
The latter will now be a 788, along with MSY and BWI. I think the A35K is still in the scheds for AUS as of now, but haven't checked in a bit.

Still thoroughly creeped out that LHR-AUS is also the cursed flight number; but I'm superstitious, so there's that.




Q wrote:
Maybe AUS-NRT who knows probably in 2023 or 2024 if ANA or JAL want to go. I think AUS should fly to Spain someday Iberia or others.

Well, while random darts are being thrown, maybe can get an AUS to JNB while at it. :razz:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Q
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Wed May 26, 2021 5:10 am

I believe AUS-CDG Air France will start someday.

Q
 
khowaga
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:07 pm

Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Wed May 26, 2021 1:16 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Be interesting to see what eqp AUS gets from BA when they get back.

Were using a 744 with plans to scale down to a 77W, which became a 4class 77E, which then became an A35K. At the same time, BA was scheduled to have a 78X.
The latter will now be a 788, along with MSY and BWI. I think the A35K is still in the scheds for AUS as of now, but haven't checked in a bit.

Still thoroughly creeped out that LHR-AUS is also the cursed flight number; but I'm superstitious, so there's that.




Q wrote:
Maybe AUS-NRT who knows probably in 2023 or 2024 if ANA or JAL want to go. I think AUS should fly to Spain someday Iberia or others.

Well, while random darts are being thrown, maybe can get an AUS to JNB while at it. :razz:

BA had announced their intention to replace the 744 with the A35K before the pandemic hit. If you try to book BA 190/191 for late fall right now, that’s still shown as the aircraft — although when it looked like they might resume in February they had the 789 listed, so who knows what it’ll be when they finally are able to resume.

And it’s going to be AUS-AGP-SKG-DEL on VivaAerobus, I just know it.
Last edited by khowaga on Wed May 26, 2021 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
khowaga
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Wed May 26, 2021 1:17 pm

Q wrote:
I believe AUS-CDG Air France will start someday.

Q

Possible - I believe the reason the KL service is only operating 3x is that AMS doesn’t have enough open slots for a greater frequency. If they want to increase, supplementing with CDG would make sense.
 
IADCA
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Wed May 26, 2021 4:44 pm

Dutchy wrote:
KLM will start Austin - Amsterdam on the 28th of March 2022, after a delay of 2 years. Nothing to strange, but given a population of 2million in the Austin area and a large community of young people and a large high-tech industry, why is it that Austin is only served by 3 European carriers in 2022?

Only Lufthansa (Frankfurt), British Airways (London Heathrow) and KLM (Amsterdam) will have a direct connection from the European side. It seems odd to me, the demand (after Corona) should be there.

Sourcee in Dutch


One factor is that the world needs to adjust. Austin has grown tremendously over the last few years, but it still faces the inertia inherent in a decision to launch a long, expensive transatlantic route. And that's another part of it: AUS to EU hubs is ~5,000 miles. There's a real difference in aircraft utilization there compared to ~4000 mile routes to the US East Coast. And by the way, that extra distance also means routes from AUS to Europe pass over or nearby other hubs, especially DTW.

Now, none of that is a difference maker alone, but it does explain a bit of why the service isn't as widespread as some might expect. As others have mentioned, larger cities closer to Europe are still at lower service levels, so Austin's doing decently overall in my view.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Wed May 26, 2021 4:58 pm

IADCA wrote:
One factor is that the world needs to adjust. Austin has grown tremendously over the last few years, but it still faces the inertia inherent in a decision to launch a long, expensive transatlantic route. And that's another part of it: AUS to EU hubs is ~5,000 miles. There's a real difference in aircraft utilization there compared to ~4000 mile routes to the US East Coast. And by the way, that extra distance also means routes from AUS to Europe pass over or nearby other hubs, especially DTW.

Now, none of that is a difference maker alone, but it does explain a bit of why the service isn't as widespread as some might expect. As others have mentioned, larger cities closer to Europe are still at lower service levels, so Austin's doing decently overall in my view.

Sure, though you just described the plight of any non-coastal US gateway... nothing inherently to do with AUS.

DFW/IAH/DEN/etc would all likely have far more TATL/TPAC service than they currently do, if they were on either coast respectively... but then, they'd also lose the advantage that makes all of them such effective domestic hubs as well.

VERY few gateways (e.g. ATL, ORD) have the combination of economy+location that grants them top hub flows for both international and domestic traffic. Some can do both based on the pure strength of their O&D market (e.g. JFK, SFO, LAX, EWR), but most are heavily skewed in one direction or the other.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
IADCA
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Re: Austin, TX, USA - Europe

Wed May 26, 2021 6:03 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
IADCA wrote:
One factor is that the world needs to adjust. Austin has grown tremendously over the last few years, but it still faces the inertia inherent in a decision to launch a long, expensive transatlantic route. And that's another part of it: AUS to EU hubs is ~5,000 miles. There's a real difference in aircraft utilization there compared to ~4000 mile routes to the US East Coast. And by the way, that extra distance also means routes from AUS to Europe pass over or nearby other hubs, especially DTW.

Now, none of that is a difference maker alone, but it does explain a bit of why the service isn't as widespread as some might expect. As others have mentioned, larger cities closer to Europe are still at lower service levels, so Austin's doing decently overall in my view.

Sure, though you just described the plight of any non-coastal US gateway... nothing inherently to do with AUS.

DFW/IAH/DEN/etc would all likely have far more TATL/TPAC service than they currently do, if they were on either coast respectively... but then, they'd also lose the advantage that makes all of them such effective domestic hubs as well.

VERY few gateways (e.g. ATL, ORD) have the combination of economy+location that grants them top hub flows for both international and domestic traffic. Some can do both based on the pure strength of their O&D market (e.g. JFK, SFO, LAX, EWR), but most are heavily skewed in one direction or the other.


Yes, but the OP is not American and might not be familiar with how US geography impacts service levels.

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