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airlinenavigato
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Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:38 pm

What do you think will be the next destinations anncounced from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

My Top 3 picks are:

- Podgorica (Citizens from Montenegro can travel to the UAE visa-free)
- Tirana (can be flown from 5W or W6)
- Split (nice travel destination; has more inhabitants than Dubrovnik for outbound passengers)

Also very likely imo are:
Kos (Greece)
Dubrovnik
Banja Luka
Skopje
Lviv
Malta
Zakynthos (Greece)
Lamezia Therme
Timisoara
Corfu
Dalaman
Bodrum
Hurghada
Sharm el Sheikh
Brindisi
Kefalonia
Warsaw
Vilnius

Unfortunately the range of a fully loaded A321neo is not enough for Vienna, Germany and Central/Northern Italy with enough buffer.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:35 pm

I think they got plenty of European destinations, not much more to gain there. People from anywhere in Europe can always fly to Abu Dhabi non-stop.

Instead I think they should be looking the other way, India is a big market of course. Currently still locked up due to COVID-19, but that won't remain the case forever. Given that the Indian LCCs aren't really competitive (they're just plain expensive) there should be a big market waiting for them there.

On the other hand they might fly to Kenya and Tanzania, destinations like Mombasa and Zanzibar would be perfectly within reach and they draw quite a number of tourists.

An outlier could even be Ürümqi, China. One of the few Chinese destinations that would be within range from Abu Dhabi, in fact it's closer than Belgrade which is one of the current Wizzair Abu Dhabi destinations. From Ürümqi the Chinese market would be open for them.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:26 am

Yes I think India will be served by WizzAir after the pandemic. UAE<>India is a very big market. And the Indian airlines want 80€ whereas Wizz can offer 30€.
GoFirst as a redeveloped ULCC might come near to that price.

I think WizzAir can build up more Eastern European destinations bringing workers and tourists to the UAE. The very low price (from 30€ for a 6 hour flight) could bring people to switch to Wizz, if another carrier also flies to the same destination.

Kenya, Zansibar, Seychelles I see too, but maybe not sooo soon.

Do you think Wizz gonna open up a base in Ürümqi or continues to fly from AUH via Ürümqi to other Chinese destinations?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:35 am

airlinenavigato wrote:
Do you think Wizz gonna open up a base in Ürümqi or continues to fly from AUH via Ürümqi to other Chinese destinations?


I don't think it'll be a base, at least not in the beginning. Just a destination, but from there on the Chinese LCCs can take people further into China. They don't even need an interline agreement, people will mix and match their own connections and self-transfer from one airline to the next.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:28 am

Wizz can offer UAE-India at 30 euros for a *few* passengers as a lead-in price for marketing purposes and attract eyeballs. They cannot possibly do that for most passengers, even on a flight of just 3 hours like AbuDhabi-Mumbai, never mind a 5 hour flight like AbuDhabi-Kolkata if they want the route to be profitable.

Wizz still have to pay for the same fuel, aircraft lease/purchase, air navigation fees, and other things that every airline has to pay
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:29 pm

I do self hubbing by myself. Didnt know that it's generally popular already.

Wizz said that they gonna fly from Budapest via Nur-Sultan to Beijing. I think that will be launched when China eases the entry regulations.

The minimum price of almost all 5-6 hour routes by WizzAir from AUH are 30€. It's about being flexible and booking at the right time to get a very low price. AirArabia, Flydubai, Indigo, SpiceJet don't have those fares at all. For a 2 hour flights to India the minimum price surely gonna be 10-15€.

In Europe Ryanair and WizzAir can realize 10€ fares by subsidies from airports, the EU and government tourist departments. FR gets 40€ per passenger they fly to Eilat, Israel.

From 2023 Wizz will finally connect AUH by the A321XLR with Germany, Austria, France, whole Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, the Baltics, Czech Republic, Sweden. And also Thailand, Malaysia, Eastern China, Indonesia, ...
 
SCQ83
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:12 pm

I don't see some of those destinations. Brindisi is very close to Bari, and Bari-Abu Dhabi is already likely a very thin route.

I reckon some of unserved Wizz Air's bases from AUH make sense:

    Iași
    Kraków (although they fly to KTW)
    Riga (surprisingly nobody flies RIX-AUH)
    Sarajevo (massive Gulf market; although served by Air Arabia)
    Tuzla (majority Muslim population, unserved to the Middle East)
    Varna
    Wrocław

Less likely:

    Bacău
    Craiova
    Debrecen
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:06 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
    Iași
    Kraków (although they fly to KTW)
    Riga (surprisingly nobody flies RIX-AUH)
    Sarajevo (massive Gulf market; although served by Air Arabia)
    Tuzla (majority Muslim population, unserved to the Middle East)
    Varna
    Wrocław
[/list]


okay. Iasi could be, even though close to already served Chisinau. Yes I did not list Krakow because it's close to KTW. Riga is served to Dubai by AirBaltic. Varna and and Tuzla could also be imo.

I see Riga and Wroclaw out of range. The longest route so far is KTW. During the tensions in the Middle East Wizz had to make an extra stop in Larnaca.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:48 am

WizzAir Abu Dhabi has now 4 aircrafts based in AUH. They said they want to base 100 in the future. Are there so many high demand routes inside the A321neo range around AUH? There is India but not much more.

I can almost imagine, that of these 100 based aircraft 50 of them gonna be XLR, connecting a good portion of the 200 airports in Europe that Wizz and Ryanair already serve.

There is no ULCC competition between Western Europe and the UAE. I don't think Ryanair will buy the XLR, or that Boeing is able to bring a 737-9XLR or 737-10XLR.

Another good portion of the XLR flights from AUH gonna go to China and South Eastern Asia.

I revised my predictions for the next to be announced routes:

Top 3:
Split
Podgorica
Tirana

also likely:
Varna
Tuzla or Banja Luka
Skopje
Lviv
Malta
Timisoara
Dalaman
Corfu
Bodrum
Hurghada
Sharm el Sheikh
Warsaw
Vilnius
Dubrovnik

not the next, but soon:
INDIA
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:53 am

100 Wizz aircraft based in Abu Dhabi ?!?!?!
Somebody is clearly smoking something very strong
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:08 pm

yeah hard to believe.

this is the link: https://www.flightglobal.com/farnboroug ... 29.article

btw to find the next destinations from AUH I used this website:
https://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php
Putting in the address 'Abu Dhabi' with a radius of 2596 miles.
Then clicking on 'Draw circle" two times (!) and then clicking on 'Remove circle' one time.

The 2596 miles are the distance between AUH and KTW, the longest Wizz Air route from AUH
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:27 pm

But keep in mind many of those aircraft based in Abu Dhabi will be A321LRs or XLRs, they got more range than the current A321NEOs that are based there now. The A321XLR has a range of 4000 nautical miles, it would look like this:

Image

That's all of Europe, Africa and just about all of Asia from Abu Dhabi, they could launch destinations like Johannesburg or Jakarta with it. Katowice, which is at the edge of range for the ordinary A321NEO, would be no problem for an A321XLR. They could launch Abu Dhabi - London Luton or even Abu Dhabi - Keflavik.

PS this map was generated by Great Circle Mapper (http://www.gcmap.com/), much easier to use than MapDevelopers.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:51 pm

The UAE (not just Abu Dhabi) has a population of 10 million people. That's about the same as Sweden or Greece. There is already a megacarrier based at Dubai, as well as a major hub in Qatar. Abu Dhabi already has a hub airline

Yes, there is strong traffic demand from those who are not permanent residents in the UAE, but it's perhaps worthwhile considering likely future traffic demand over the next 15 years in countries of comparable population+wealth... and also that countries in the Gulf do not grant air travel freedoms anywhere near as liberally as for airlines flying within the EU

Major countries in the region like Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan and Pakistan seem unlikely to be major leisure travel destinations in a hurry
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:09 pm

In the Great Circle Mapper there are no cities shown. With MapDeveloppers one can zoom in as in Google Maps. After drawing a circle twice and removing one I find it easy to use. That's why I prefer MapDeveloppers.

WizzAir may not get the 4.700 nm stated by Airbus. They gonna put 239 seats inside and are usually >95% booked. For Europe that's not so important whether they can also fly to Iceland, Canary Islands and the Portuguese Atlantic Islands. The demand will be rather low.

The actual XLR range gonna be more interesting for China and South Eastern Asia.
Can 5W fly AUH<>Bali? I doubt it.
AUH<>Seoul? I say rather no.
AUH<>Shanghai? I say rather yes :)

I think for WizzAir in AUH it's mostly inbound traffic :)
The majority by tourism purpose and workers. A lesser amount expats from the UAE flying home and people doing self-hubbing via the UAE.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 04, 2021 2:15 pm

For finding next to be announced routes with the current A321neo (AUH<>KTW range)

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:36 pm

That last picture shows Vilnius which certainly ain't going to work. In a straight line it might not be further than Katowice, but it would require them to overfly Belarus which they ain't going to do after the recent events there. In fact Wizzair was one of the first airlines to announce they would avoid overflying Belarus.

As far as self-transferring in the UAE is concerned, that only works if you got flights in different directions. This is what their route network from Abu Dhabi currently looks like:

Image

I see a lot of flights in one direction and very few in the other directions, it's not evenly spread. So instead of focusing on more flights in the same direction, you should focus on flights in the other direction. That means India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, the Maldives, etc. but also Ethiopia, Kenya and Tanzania.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:53 pm

I see a lot of routes to AUH from central/eastern Europe, Greek islands, Ukraine and Caucasus
I do not think there is particularly large demand for travel from these countries to Bangladesh, Nepal, or much of East Africa - trade, emigration, family and cultural ties between (for example) Romania and Nepal are relatively weak. Kazakhstan is too far north for connections via AUH
Residents of Bucharest wealthy enough to want a week's holiday in the Maldives are likely to look for a non-stop 9-hour overnight charter flight

If AUH is to work for Wizz, I think it will be on a point-to-point basis... I do not see AUH in its current form as being a major connection / self-connection hub between pairs of Wizz flights

For AUH to be a substantial connection hub for Wizz, they need to grow fast on AUH-India routes of which there are currently zero
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:23 am

You convinced me with Vilnius! I remember I read that WizzAir has a critical view over banning Belavia from the EU. But Wizz surely gonna avoid the Belarus airspace for some time. So Vilnius is not going to be one of the very next destinations.

Don't travellers fly from Yerevan or Baku to Alexandria via Abu Dhabi, if the price is way better than other connections including paying for the UAE visa?

A friend of mine flew from a German city to another German city via London. I had to convince him to do it, because it does not look very reasonable ^^. Maybe it's the needed convincing, that makes this kind of self-hubbing rare. I estimate the distance between two cities rather by price than by kilometers. But other people surely don't do that :)

I see the first destinations of India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, the Maldives, Ethiopia, Kenya and Tanzania starting until the end of the year.

In my opinion Dubai, Abu Dhabi and the UAE are THE tourist destination that people from EVERYWHERE want to visit. I lately read that there will not be enough hotel beds for the rising amount of tourists.
"Travel and tourism revenue is expected to show an ANNUAL growth rate (CAGR 2021-2025) of 18.65% (!), resulting in a projected market volume of US$1,458m by 2025." (https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/tr ... rrency=usd)

Yeah there are still some Greek islands left to be connected from Wizz to AUH :)

I think kiwi.com will make a partnership with AUH to make self-hubbing more easy. As for BGY and BER.

I estimate that AUH<>India gonna be the biggest market for Wizz from AUH regarding connections to one single country.
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:19 pm

Since the A32Xneo can easily reach northern England from AUH (Norwegian managed OSL-DXB with a 737-800), could Wizz Air Hungary/Wizz Air Abu Dhabi make the Luton/Leeds Bradford <>Pakistan route viable? You don't even need an A321LR to fly AUH-LBA, a standard A320neo or A321neo will do.

And, considering neither W6 nor 5W have direct flights to Pakistan yet (a few months ago W6 announced plans for a BUD-ISB route, but I'll believe it when I see it), it would have to be a codeshare with Etihad, PIA or Airblue.

Or would it be unnecessary since Heathrow and Gatwick are close enough to Luton (and MAN is close enough to Bradford)?

Slightly off-topic: Luton can actually handle some surprisingly large aircraft for an airport of its size. Monarch flew A300s to Orlando, and El Al flew the 767-300ER on LTN-TLV to serve the large Jewish community (in Hendon, Brent Cross and Golders Green). Could Luton handle a 77W?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:53 pm

It's one thing to fly London-Dubai-Pakistan with seatback TV, but if you use Wizz instead, it's starting to become a somewhat different experience compared to London-Pakistan nonstop
I'm not sure where it lies... but there must be a limit as to how much LCC experience people will tollerate before they just pay for comfort
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:42 am

leftcoast8 wrote:
And, considering neither W6 nor 5W have direct flights to Pakistan yet (a few months ago W6 announced plans for a BUD-ISB route, but I'll believe it when I see it), it would have to be a codeshare with Etihad, PIA or Airblue.

Or would it be unnecessary since Heathrow and Gatwick are close enough to Luton (and MAN is close enough to Bradford)?


That's not the way Wizzair works, they don't codeshare with anybody. In fact, they don't even sell transfers. If people want to make a connection on Wizzair, their only option is to self-transfer where Wizz takes no responsibility for missed flights.

The fact that they don't have direct flights to Pakistan yet doesn't mean anything, they might still come. Wizz flies wherever they see fit, but like I said only on their own metal. Codeshares are out of the question.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:03 pm

leftcoast8 wrote:
Since the A32Xneo can easily reach northern England from AUH (Norwegian managed OSL-DXB with a 737-800)


Was is bookable for 189 passengers without bag restrictions or high bag fees? And was it without a fuel stop, even when is was forbidden to fly over a Middle Eastern country? Currently planes do not overfly Syria.

Since the start of the WizzAir Dubai flights many years ago, Wizzair never extended the maximum range of KTW<>UAE. Even after getting the neos. From Abu Dhabi to Palermo and Neaples is almost as long as to Katowice, but Wizz Air chose to fly the thinner and shorter route to Bari and Catania.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
In fact, they don't even sell transfers. If people want to make a connection on Wizzair, their only option is to self-transfer where Wizz takes no responsibility for missed flights.


There is the (limited) kiwi.com guarantee. And some airports like BGY, BER and BUD support self-hubbing.

I think the flight from BUD to Pakistan gonna be offerred as a direct flight, but make a stop in Abu Dhabi. So passengers can also book only BUD<>AUH and AUH<>Pakistan.

There was also a direct flight announced for Budapest via Nur-Sultan to Beijing.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:55 pm

airlinenavigato wrote:
leftcoast8 wrote:
Since the A32Xneo can easily reach northern England from AUH (Norwegian managed OSL-DXB with a 737-800)


Was is bookable for 189 passengers without bag restrictions or high bag fees? And was it without a fuel stop, even when is was forbidden to fly over a Middle Eastern country? Currently planes do not overfly Syria.


It was weight restricted, a number of seats were blocked off. But it was a non-stop flight, no fuel stops anywhere. The only Middle Eastern country that is forbidden to overfly is Syria, but that would be a detour. The direct route between Dubai and Oslo goes over Iran, Armenia, Georgia and Ukraine. It also passes over Belarus, so in order to fly this route today you'd have to fly slightly further west over eastern Turkey, Ukraine and Poland. Of course, Norwegian being an LCC, they did charge for checked luggage so the cargo holds likely weren't full either. But the same goes for Wizz, the baggage fees ain't much different.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:02 pm

Overflying Iran was restricted some months ago after the Ukraine plane was shot. That time Wizz had to make an extra stop in Larnaca, which caused additional flight time and costs. Possible restrictions in the future for overflying Middle East countries is imo the reason, why Wizz did not fly longer routes than to KTW so far.
Wizz will surely not do weight restrictions, block seats or increase the luggage fees a lot so that fewer people fly with luggage.

I also cannot imagine Wizz Air doing codeshares. Varadi said they will not work together with Etihad in AUH.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:31 pm

These are the non-stop routes offered by airlines from AUH:

Image

I can still see there potential. Especially for Albania, Montenegro, Ukraine, Romania, Kosovo, Turkey and South Western Russia.

And I think Wizz gonna fly to some destinations that proved successful from Dubai:
Image
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:20 am

ok let's see India ;)

These are all airports in India that are served by commercial airlines:

Image

And these are the Indian airports that are connected to Abu Dhabi:

Image

Not so much keeping in mind that UAE<>India is a big market.

These are the Indian airports connected to Dubai:

Image

Only a few more.

India has a big population density throughout the country. And there are over 1 billion people:

Image

Do you also think that Wizz Air will connect a lot of the airports shown in picture 1, where a A321neo can arrive and depart?
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:02 pm

I found an article where Wizz Air names countries in the east of the UAE:

"[Varadi] is also in talks to secure licences for new routes from Abu Dhabi, where Wizz Air launched a new airline jointly with Abu Dhabi state operator ADQ in January.

Future destinations could include India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal. Varadi said: 'The subcontinent is a large market for the United Arab Emirates and we are working on getting access to those markets. Once permitted, we will make an announcement.'"

https://www.aviationpros.com/airlines/n ... s-struggle

So in Pakistan there are some bigger airports. In Nepal it looks like Kathmandu, in Bangladesh Dhaka and in Sri Lanka Colombo. Other airports in these three countries don't have much routes, but could be a possibility if suitable for the A321neo.

Wizz Air did not announce new routes from Abu Dhabi for more than one month. Between Dubai and India other airlines made their flights bookable again from July 15. And between Abu Dhabi and India from July 21.

https://www.india.com/business/internat ... o-4799726/
 
myki
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:18 pm

Aside from the fact that any new destination in South Asia means setting up new stations (which is doable of course), the fact that the UAE isn't allowing flights from India, Sri Lanka, etc. currently and continue to extend the ban may have something to do with not announcing anything there for the moment.

EY dropped a few routes in to India, would be good for 5W to jump in there (as long as the bilateral rights are there) for GOI, JAI, LKO and CCU as a point of difference and anywhere else EY doesn't land.

Aside from there, I'd imagine SSH and ZNZ would be popular too (based on gut feel and zero evidence haha).
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:38 pm

myki wrote:
Aside from the fact that any new destination in South Asia means setting up new stations (which is doable of course), the fact that the UAE isn't allowing flights from India, Sri Lanka, etc. currently and continue to extend the ban may have something to do with not announcing anything there for the moment.


I think so too! The last I read was that UAE<>India is suspended until July 31. And it could be further extended.

myki wrote:
EY dropped a few routes in to India, would be good for 5W to jump in there (as long as the bilateral rights are there) for GOI, JAI, LKO and CCU as a point of difference and anywhere else EY doesn't land.

Actually I can imagine Wizz Air flying from every Indian airport where an A321neo can depart from :)
India is such a price sensitive market. I can imagine that their international fares starting at US$15-30 hit a big ground.

myki wrote:
Aside from there, I'd imagine SSH and ZNZ would be popular too (based on gut feel and zero evidence haha).

Alright! 5W already connected some airports in Egypt.
SSH as a holiday destination for people living/working in the UAE? The Egyptians in Sharm El Sheikh may already work in the tourism industry and there might not be a big improvement for them to work in the UAE.
I guess that 5W also gonna fly to Aswan and/or Asyut in Egypt.

ZNZ could be! Wizz said they want to fly to Africa after the pandemic:
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... r-pandemic
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:07 am

I think I know now, why Wizz hasn't flown longer routes than 2265 nautical miles (KTW-AUH range, 6 hour flight).

Because of the maximum duty time of the pilots. In Europe pilots are allowed to fly up to 13-14 hours per day including preparation and review. In order to fly the two sections with the same pilots including a buffer, 6 hour flight time is the maximum. So Wizz does not need to pay for accommodation for the crew.

That fits with Ryanair. Their longest flight was LPA-NYO with 2285 nmi.

So even though the A321neo is capable of the ranges, we may not see from AUH destinations like MXP, FMM, BER, BLQ, DTM and PRG.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:01 am

airlinenavigato wrote:
That fits with Ryanair. Their longest flight was LPA-NYO with 2285 nmi.


Slight correction, their longest route ever was NYO-TFS. Tenerife is slightly further than Gran Canaria, although not by much.

Other that that you're correct, the shorter routes are more profitable for them. For longer distances you can always transfer somewhere halfway.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:43 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
For longer distances you can always transfer somewhere halfway.


Just for passengers a direct 6:30h flight would be easier.

In 2023 Wizz gonna introduce long routes with XLR. The air fares will be of course higher than the current air fares. So the customers get used to somewhat higher prices on longer routes. I can imagine that then Wizz gonna fly from AUH to Prague and Northern Italy – with an A321neo and different pilots for both sections.

Because for non-stop flights between Prague/Northern Italy and the UAE there is no real low-cost competition. Only Pegasus one-stop one-way for 100€ on some days.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:53 pm

airlinenavigato wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
For longer distances you can always transfer somewhere halfway.


Just for passengers a direct 6:30h flight would be easier.

In 2023 Wizz gonna introduce long routes with XLR. The air fares will be of course higher than the current air fares. So the customers get used to somewhat higher prices on longer routes. I can imagine that then Wizz gonna fly from AUH to Prague and Northern Italy – with an A321neo and different pilots for both sections.

Because for non-stop flights between Prague/Northern Italy and the UAE there is no real low-cost competition. Only Pegasus one-stop one-way for 100€ on some days.


Easier indeed, but if a one-stop opportunity undercuts the direct flight it still might not make sense. Remember there's always the opportunity for self-connecting.

For example if you want to get from Milan Malpensa to Abu Dhabi you could take the following flights:

W6 2334 MXP - BUD € 49,99
W6 2357 BUD - AUH € 76,19
Total € 126,18

It means a 1 hour 50 minute connection in Budapest, which is doable. Etihad charges €304 for a direct flight on the same date, let's say Wizz is able to do it somewhat cheaper and charge €200 for a direct flight. Still €73,82 more expensive than self-connecting in Budapest, and given that budget passengers (the primary clientele for Wizz) tend to go for the cheapest option a good number of them would self-connect in Budapest just to save money. Convenience is nice, but not at any price.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:04 pm

I do self-hubbing by myself.

But the majority of passengers hasn't done it before. BUD, BER and BGY support it. But all the other European airports don't. Having a layover of 1:50h, the first flight only needs to be late 1:30h and you miss the connecting flight. With checked luggage 1 hour delay means not getting the next flight. The kiwi.com guarantee only pays a portion of the new air fare depending what air fare you paid to kiwi.com for the initial flight connection. Booking a LCC flight for the same or next day is usually expensive. In case there is another flight. Some routes Wizz and FR fly only twice a week.

When I do self-hubbing outside of BGY, BER and BUD, I filter the search results for a layover of at least 4 hours. Or an overnight stay of at least 12 hours. Or staying some days in the layover city ^^. But that might not be attractive for the majority of other travellers as they want to reach the destination fast.

Prices are nice. From Western Europe to the UAE with min. 4 hour layover from 60€:

https://www.kiwi.com/ee/search/results/ ... ationMin=4

Last year i did it for 28€ altogether with the WDC. Had an overnight stay in Bucharest.

Do you maybe know a flight search that shows self-hubbing connections with a layover of over 25 hours?
In the kiwi.com nomad flight search one has to pick at least 2 stops in between. But I only want to choose one ^^
And in the kiwi.com multistop search, one cannot search for anytime.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:23 pm

I found 1-stop flights from Europe to the UAE from 30€ :)

Image

When sorting the search results by price, connections with a longer layover are shown on the top.

https://www.kiwi.com/ee/search/results/ ... rtBy=price
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:37 pm

back to the topic

The CCO says there are some hurdles to the fly to India. So it may not be possible to set up connections to there very soon:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflyi ... ctive/amp/

I'm in favor an Indian subsidiary.
Internationally from Delhi they could serve destinations they already fly to.
Like Tel Aviv, Kutaisi, Salalah, Muscat, Baku, Yerevan, Nur-Sultan and Almaty with the 2250nmi range and their A321neo.

Image
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:21 pm

Flying between Abu Dhabi and India is one thing. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't, but my guess is given a bit of targeted advertising and some effective lobbying, the right people might be persuaded in time to approve

Owning an airline with an Indian AOC and having rights to fly from India to multiple other countries in Asia is a long way off. There will be multiple people in India against the idea. At best, they might achieve something with Wizz Hungary owning 49% of the company, along with an India-based partner owning the other 51% of the equity, similiar to Vistara. Trade, cultural and family links between India and Singapore have been strong for many many years - the absence of particularly good links between Hungary and India means a lot of encouraging and persuading of Indian policy-makers remains
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:27 pm

I agree an Indian subsidiary ain't likely, and it's not necessary either. Of course India should be a destination from Abu Dhabi as there is a gap to bridge there, however from India on the low-cost market is saturated. Airlines like AirAsia, Scoot and VietJet all serve India from "the other side", making a self-transfer in India possible.

Let's say you want to get low-cost from Abu Dhabi to Kuala Lumpur. The trick is to get from Abu Dhabi to India for cheap, that's where Wizz can fill a void. Once Wizz starts serving destinations like Chennai, Kochi, etc. you can self-transfer there to AirAsia taking you to Kuala Lumpur. AirAsia serves plenty of destinations in India, that ain't the problem. But they don't reach as far as the UAE.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:58 pm

Wizz also has a 49% share in Abu Dhabi.

I see potential in the international air fares from India. To Thailand and the UAE the minimum fare is 80€. Wizz offers 15-30€ as a minimum fare on these distances. Indians are very price sensitive. So around 1 billion Indians are in favor of Wizz Air India ;)

The renamed Indian GoFirst airline wants to become an ULCC. And they offer protected 1-stop flights between India and South Eastern Asia.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:03 am

These countries are in the typical Wizz 6 hour range around India. And the minimum (not average) price. So most days it costs more than these stated fares:

Indonesia 118€
Vietnam 124€
Azerbajan 136€
Israel 138€
Armenia 142€
China 160€ ( ! )
Cambodia 170€
Laos 180€
Turkey 180€ ( ! )
Russia 183€ ( ! )
Saudi Arabia 184€
Georgia 192€
Pakistan 200€ ( ! )
Jordan 206€
Kyrgyztan 213€
Myanmar 213€
Kzakhstan 221€ ( ! )
Uzbekistan 240€
Lebanon 250€
Tajikistan 273€
Mongolia 430€ ( ! )

A big difference to the 15-30€ from Wizz and so a big market potential

The average ( ! ) fare of an FR flight is 37€. By offering that they made more than 1 billion ( ! ) Euro in profits!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/112 ... es-europe/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:05 pm

From CCU Wizz Air India can fly to Seoul, Philippines, Taiwan and further into Indonesia.

With their normal A321neo and with only one flight crew to there and back.

Image
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:12 am

But isn't it so that any airline founded in India is only allowed to fly domestic for the first 10 years of their existence? Only after they've been around for 10 years they're allowed to start international flights. This is likely the reason AirAsia India doesn't fly international, they haven't turned 10 years old yet. So if Wizzair India would be founded today, it would be 2031 before they can start routes to the places mentioned. Who knows what the aviation sector will look like then?

Luckily non-Indian airlines don't have these restrictions, but they're not allowed to set up bases in India. India just happens to be a very restrictive market, very protectionist. It's not a matter of just start an airline and fly as you please.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:16 pm

ah there must be a way to achieve it:

- changing the laws. W6 is no newcomer
- buying Jet Airways
- merging with GoFirst or Indigo and renaming it
- overtaking a small regional Indian airline and making an international A321neo airline out of it
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:00 pm

Wizz have not yet flown one commercial passenger to/from India. I'm wondering if, in discussing how Wizz might become a significant Indian airline, we are trying to look a little too far ahead in the future
 
myki
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:28 am

3L have just announced two destinations in Pakistan (AUH - LYP/MUX), perhaps we might see 5W do the same soon? I would think though they would wait until flights are totally open between UAE and Pakistan before adding. Just a thought, based on zero fact!

What's the thoughts on hitting up the Persian Gulf cities, the likes of AMM, BAH, DOH, etc. Yes, a new station to open rather than an existing one, however could then be used as new stations for flights run by Wizz Air Hungary.
 
Jutlander
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:53 am

airlinenavigato wrote:
The renamed Indian GoFirst airline wants to become an ULCC. And they offer protected 1-stop flights between India and South Eastern Asia.


Long way to go for them then.

Right now G8 charges AED 1060 for a one-way AUH-DEL, EY only charges AED 180. G8 is nearly 6 times as expensive as EY on the same route, they got to learn that those high fares don't get them any sales. They'll just fly empty planes while everybody flies EY.

Also G8 offers checked baggage and large hand luggage for free. If they want to become an ULCC they got to change that, free luggage eats too much into the revenue which is why the fare is so high.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:44 pm

Jutlander wrote:
Right now G8 charges AED 1060 for a one-way AUH-DEL, EY only charges AED 180. G8 is nearly 6 times as expensive as EY on the same route, they got to learn that those high fares don't get them any sales. They'll just fly empty planes while everybody flies EY.


Do you have a link for the 180AED?
For G8 I found fares from India to to the UAE from 110€. Before the flu it was from 80€.

G8 flies from the UAE to BKK from 120€. That's a start of becoming an ULCC. The protected one-stop fare is lower than booking both flights seperately.

Image

Jutlander wrote:
Also G8 offers checked baggage and large hand luggage for free. If they want to become an ULCC they got to change that, free luggage eats too much into the revenue which is why the fare is so high.


Yes it's a characteristic of an ULCC to not offer free checked luggage :)

myki wrote:
3L have just announced two destinations in Pakistan (AUH - LYP/MUX), perhaps we might see 5W do the same soon? I would think though they would wait until flights are totally open between UAE and Pakistan before adding. Just a thought, based on zero fact!


Yes I can imagine 5W connecting AUH to multiple airports in Pakistan.

myki wrote:
What's the thoughts on hitting up the Persian Gulf cities, the likes of AMM, BAH, DOH, etc. Yes, a new station to open rather than an existing one, however could then be used as new stations for flights run by Wizz Air Hungary.


The Persian Gulf cities I'd say in the medium term. Imo Wizz Air is mainly an airline for people working abroad or for people with migration background. People of the Eastern EU get a way higher income in the Western EU, so they work there. When they fly to the Eastern EU, that is called "visiting friends and relatives" ^^
Wizz Air UK adds now the tourism purpose by flying to leisure destinations. 5W I see also adding the tourism purpose.

I also find AMM likely.

This is my updated list. The longest flight from 5W is 5:35h from Kyiv. Varadi said one day 5W wants to offer 5h flights around AUH. Podgorica and Split are no bases to fly to AUH by W6, so it's not "very likely" to be connected.

--- Top 3 for the very next ---

Skopje
Lviv
Tirana

--- very likely ---
Dhaka Bangladesh
Colombo Sri Lanka
Kathmandu Nepal
Aktau or Atyrau Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan
Uzbekistan
Timisoara
Corfu
Hurghada or Sharm el Sheikh

--- likely ---
Tbilisi
Shymkent Kazakhstan
South Western Russia
Aswan Egypt
Assiut Egypt
Antalya
Tuzla or Banja Luka
Split
Podgorica
Malta
Varna
Iasi
Sarajevo
Beirut
Phristina
Dalaman Turkey
Bodrum
Moscow
Amman
Karachi Pakistan
Islamabad Pakistan
other airports in Pakistan
other airports in Turkey

--- medium likely ---
Warsaw
Dubrovnik
Aqaba
Kos
Zakynthos Greece
Kefalonia
Kalamata Greece mainland
Marsa Alam
Zaporizhzhia Ukraine
Krakow
Kosice Slowakia
Lublin
Craiova
Sibiu
Bacau
Targu Murhes
Charkiv
Istanbul
Kazan Russia
Constança
Burgas
Preveza Aktion Greece
Doha
Kuwait-City
Bahrain
Saudi Arabia
Debrecen
Tanzania
Kenya
Malé
Other airports in Turkey
Other airports in Southwestern Russia
Other airports in Southern Russia

--- Forum's favorite ---
Ürümqi

Not the very next, but soon:
INDIA
BUD-TSE-PEK
 
myki
Posts: 377
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:34 am

The "very likely" list above to me seems, well, very likely, especially the 'stans. How big a market there is though for anything more than twice a week, unsure, but that's the usual Wizz gameplay - no need to fly triple-daily when twice a week will suffice.
 
airlinenavigato
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:12 pm

I agree.

I mean Doha, Bahrain and Kuwait-City could be also connected short-term. It's an half to one hour flight. Not a high business risk and the fares are currently quite high:
UAE->Bahrain from 175€
UAE->Doha from 75€
UAE->Kuwait from 150€

In an interview the Qatar Airways boss said, he will allow LCCs to fly to Doha, but not to set up a base. The Doha airport is owned by Qatar Airways. I think it was an interview on SF.

In this article the communications director of Wizz confirms, that Abu Dhabi has high growth potential.
https://bbj.hu/business/people/intervie ... her-afield
 
Blerg
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Re: Next destinations from WizzAir from Abu Dhabi?

Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:34 pm

I wonder if they might launch Ankara at some point. It's a big city, relatively wealthy and from what I understood there is a strong IT industry which usually attracts younger people.

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