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NorseFA
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SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:09 am

Given the recent "exodus" out of NYC to the suburbs, can we expect airlines to move some of their traffic to SWF airport?
 
a340crew
Posts: 186
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Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:23 pm

Didn’t Norwegian try this a few years ago? Making it a low cost gateway to NYC?
 
TexasAirCorp
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Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:01 pm

a340crew wrote:
Didn’t Norwegian try this a few years ago? Making it a low cost gateway to NYC?


Indeed they did, it worked pretty well until the MAX was grounded. DUB was up to twice daily.
 
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Rossiya747
Posts: 356
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Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:21 pm

TexasAirCorp wrote:
a340crew wrote:
Didn’t Norwegian try this a few years ago? Making it a low cost gateway to NYC?


Indeed they did, it worked pretty well until the MAX was grounded. DUB was up to twice daily.


Yes, DUB had a daytime and night flight on the MAXes before the grounding. They also had flights to Belfast, Edinburgh, and Bergen. Personally I have done to DUB and back as well as one-way to EDI. Before the end of the service after the grounding they used an Evelop A330-300 for DUB flights, which I was on myself in August 2019.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:24 pm

Honestly, and as much as I'd like this to happen, I don't see how Stewart would be transformed overnight into a "NY gateway"...I mean, it's been there for quite a loooong while, and while Norwegian came and went, no other foreign airline has vouched for it...
Unless something dramatic (read: terminal size+facilities+ground transportation) is done to it, I really don;t see how the status quo could change...
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:33 pm

The mass exodus will favor EWR, ISP, and sort of JFK.
 
evank516
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Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:15 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
The mass exodus will favor EWR, ISP, and sort of JFK.


Probably HPN to a degree as well, they’re just capped.
 
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STT757
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Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:18 pm

NorseFA wrote:
Given the recent "exodus" out of NYC to the suburbs, can we expect airlines to move some of their traffic to SWF airport?


They're not moving to Orange County.

Where they landed
Top destinations for New Yorkers who left the city between March and October, with the number of change of address requests for each zip code:
1. East Hampton, NY 11937: 2,769
2. Jersey City, NJ 07302: 1,821
3. Southampton, NY 11968: 1,398
4. Hoboken, NJ 07030: 1,204
5. Sag Harbor, NY 11963: 961
6. Scarsdale, NY 10583: 812
7. Water Mill, NY 11976: 577
8. Greenwich, Conn. 06830: 558
9. Yonkers, NY 10701: 567
10. Jersey City, NJ 07310: 434
11. Port Washington, NY 11050: 414
12. Westhampton Beach, NY 11978: 409
13. Princeton, NJ 08540: 395
14. Woodstock, NY 12498: 392
15. New Canaan, Conn. 06840: 389
16. Great Neck/Manhasset, NY 11021: 380
17. Hampton Bays, NY 11946: 344
18. Darien, Conn. 06820: 326
19. Mount Vernon, NY 10550: 325
20. Long Beach, NY 11561: 323
 
USAirALB
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Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:27 pm

I have family that lives relatively close to SWF (Port Jervis, NY) and when I lived in ALB (before they had nonstop service to FLL) I would frequently drive down to SWF to fly FL or B6 nonstop to South Florida. The whole area doesn't have much going on economically speaking and is extremely rural.

People who are leaving the city aren't going to Orange County.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7595
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:13 pm

NorseFA wrote:
Given the recent "exodus" out of NYC to the suburbs, can we expect airlines to move some of their traffic to SWF airport?


Even if Orange and Dutchess Counties had been the primary beneficiaries of the move to the exurbs (they're definitely not suburban) the potential traffic increase at SWF would probably be minimal. People who can work remotely (and who could not before) are relatively unlikely to travel much for work. The only real impact I could see might be a bit more service to popular leisure markets; i.e. Florida.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10169
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:56 pm

STT757 wrote:
NorseFA wrote:
Given the recent "exodus" out of NYC to the suburbs, can we expect airlines to move some of their traffic to SWF airport?


They're not moving to Orange County.

Where they landed
Top destinations for New Yorkers who left the city between March and October, with the number of change of address requests for each zip code:
1. East Hampton, NY 11937: 2,769
2. Jersey City, NJ 07302: 1,821
3. Southampton, NY 11968: 1,398
4. Hoboken, NJ 07030: 1,204
5. Sag Harbor, NY 11963: 961
6. Scarsdale, NY 10583: 812
7. Water Mill, NY 11976: 577
8. Greenwich, Conn. 06830: 558
9. Yonkers, NY 10701: 567
10. Jersey City, NJ 07310: 434
11. Port Washington, NY 11050: 414
12. Westhampton Beach, NY 11978: 409
13. Princeton, NJ 08540: 395
14. Woodstock, NY 12498: 392
15. New Canaan, Conn. 06840: 389
16. Great Neck/Manhasset, NY 11021: 380
17. Hampton Bays, NY 11946: 344
18. Darien, Conn. 06820: 326
19. Mount Vernon, NY 10550: 325
20. Long Beach, NY 11561: 323


That's some great data, and show just how few people moved within a CSA of 22 million people. Those moves aren't going to change the distribution of origin traffic JFK/EWR/LGA/SWF/ISP one iota.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:58 pm

STT757 wrote:
NorseFA wrote:
Given the recent "exodus" out of NYC to the suburbs, can we expect airlines to move some of their traffic to SWF airport?


They're not moving to Orange County.

Where they landed
Top destinations for New Yorkers who left the city between March and October, with the number of change of address requests for each zip code:
1. East Hampton, NY 11937: 2,769
2. Jersey City, NJ 07302: 1,821
3. Southampton, NY 11968: 1,398
4. Hoboken, NJ 07030: 1,204
5. Sag Harbor, NY 11963: 961
6. Scarsdale, NY 10583: 812
7. Water Mill, NY 11976: 577
8. Greenwich, Conn. 06830: 558
9. Yonkers, NY 10701: 567
10. Jersey City, NJ 07310: 434
11. Port Washington, NY 11050: 414
12. Westhampton Beach, NY 11978: 409
13. Princeton, NJ 08540: 395
14. Woodstock, NY 12498: 392
15. New Canaan, Conn. 06840: 389
16. Great Neck/Manhasset, NY 11021: 380
17. Hampton Bays, NY 11946: 344
18. Darien, Conn. 06820: 326
19. Mount Vernon, NY 10550: 325
20. Long Beach, NY 11561: 323


Jeez I spent some time in my childhood in Woodstock, crazy to see it on the list
 
ScottB
Posts: 7595
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:13 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Those moves aren't going to change the distribution of origin traffic JFK/EWR/LGA/SWF/ISP one iota.


I'm not so sure that's 100% true -- mainly because the distribution of New Yorkers with the means to change residence during a public health crisis probably has some correlation with those who have the means to travel by air frequently.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4352
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:09 pm

Rossiya747 wrote:
TexasAirCorp wrote:
a340crew wrote:
Didn’t Norwegian try this a few years ago? Making it a low cost gateway to NYC?


Indeed they did, it worked pretty well until the MAX was grounded. DUB was up to twice daily.


Yes, DUB had a daytime and night flight on the MAXes before the grounding. They also had flights to Belfast, Edinburgh, and Bergen. Personally I have done to DUB and back as well as one-way to EDI. Before the end of the service after the grounding they used an Evelop A330-300 for DUB flights, which I was on myself in August 2019.


Doubling down on horribly performing routes is one of the reasons Norwegian longhaul is no longer around. I wouldn't assume the routes were successful just because Norwegian served them.
 
CHSNYC
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:05 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:57 pm

In 2018, I paid $200 roundtrip to fly to DUB from SWF on a Norwegian MAX. It was a great deal. The plane was packed. Hard to imagine the airline made more than a cent off of my trip.

I was living in Port Jervis, NY, at the time, and SWF was incredibly convenient. More than 1 million people live in the northern reaches of the NYC metro area (Orange, Rockland, Putnam, Dutchess and Ulster counties—excluding Westchester). It's a long, long trek to LGA, EWR and JFK, and service at HPN is limited. Seems the region is underserved, and SWF is an untapped opportunity.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:00 pm

I’m hearing that avelo is going to sit up shop there
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8576
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:52 pm

Stewart has been the “next gateway” airport for NYC for the last 40 years, it still will be in 2030.
 
TexasAirCorp
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:35 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Rossiya747 wrote:
TexasAirCorp wrote:

Indeed they did, it worked pretty well until the MAX was grounded. DUB was up to twice daily.


Yes, DUB had a daytime and night flight on the MAXes before the grounding. They also had flights to Belfast, Edinburgh, and Bergen. Personally I have done to DUB and back as well as one-way to EDI. Before the end of the service after the grounding they used an Evelop A330-300 for DUB flights, which I was on myself in August 2019.


Doubling down on horribly performing routes is one of the reasons Norwegian longhaul is no longer around. I wouldn't assume the routes were successful just because Norwegian served them.


Most of NAX’s SWF/PVD routes had decent load factors, SWF-DUB was usually above 80%. Only reason it was cut is because of the MAX grounding.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:27 pm

TexasAirCorp wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Rossiya747 wrote:

Yes, DUB had a daytime and night flight on the MAXes before the grounding. They also had flights to Belfast, Edinburgh, and Bergen. Personally I have done to DUB and back as well as one-way to EDI. Before the end of the service after the grounding they used an Evelop A330-300 for DUB flights, which I was on myself in August 2019.


Doubling down on horribly performing routes is one of the reasons Norwegian longhaul is no longer around. I wouldn't assume the routes were successful just because Norwegian served them.


Most of NAX’s SWF/PVD routes had decent load factors, SWF-DUB was usually above 80%. Only reason it was cut is because of the MAX grounding.


...but that ignores the yields. It is easy to get high load factors when your fares are unsustainable like the $200 TATL RT mentioned above.
 
FlyEndeavorAir
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 15, 2021 10:49 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:11 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Stewart has been the “next gateway” airport for NYC for the last 40 years, it still will be in 2030.


This.

Delta has pulled out completely, no more Norwegian, JetBlue is still suspended, and they're just left with an AA flight to PHL on an E145 and Allegiant to a smattering of Florida destinations a couple of times a week.

ISP and HPN are megahubs in comparison.
 
N965UW
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:31 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:43 am

oldannyboy wrote:
Honestly, and as much as I'd like this to happen, I don't see how Stewart would be transformed overnight into a "NY gateway"...I mean, it's been there for quite a loooong while, and while Norwegian came and went, no other foreign airline has vouched for it...
Unless something dramatic (read: terminal size+facilities+ground transportation) is done to it, I really don;t see how the status quo could change...


There needs to be reliable transportation to the surrounding area and NYC that isn't a bus. Connecting SWF to the Metro North Hudson Line would be nice, but a river has to be crossed. You could connect SWF to NJ Transit via the Port Jervis Line, but that's not ideal for a lot of people.

CHSNYC wrote:
More than 1 million people live in the northern reaches of the NYC metro area (Orange, Rockland, Putnam, Dutchess and Ulster counties—excluding Westchester). It's a long, long trek to LGA, EWR and JFK, and service at HPN is limited. Seems the region is underserved, and SWF is an untapped opportunity.


I agree, however my experience is that a lot of people either are unaware or unappreciative of SWF. They will still make the trek to LGA, JFK, EWR, etc. They have no idea that SWF exists or has commercial service, they don't want a connection (or two depending on their trip), or they don't want to fly a ULCC that doesn't offer flights every day.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:14 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
The mass exodus will favor EWR, ISP, and sort of JFK.


I don't agree with that.

Those airports are in the middle of the city, not ideal for the people that live in the suburbs as it means a track into the city to get to the airport. A track out of the city is usually more convenient if you live in the suburbs, and Stewart is perfect for that.

On top of that, Stewart has something that JFK, LaGuardia and Newark don't have: excess capacity. As the major airports within the city are full, the excess traffic will need somewhere to go. Sure it can be less convenient for getting to the city center, but not everything is about convenience. Heathrow is more convenient for getting to London than Stansted, but still plenty of people use Stansted for getting to London. Stewart can be the Stansted of New York, with lower landing and handling fees that attract specially low-cost airlines. Norwegian showed this can work, they made it work like secondary airports in Europe are being made to work by airlines like Ryanair, Wizzair, etc.

In plenty of cities the old airports that are in the heart of the city are being closed and replaced by new airports outside the city, take Istanbul for example. Ataturk was in an excellent position in the middle of the city, but this did mean it was capacity constrained and it couldn't expand. On top of that it caused a lot of nuisance in the city due to noise pollution. By closing the old airport and opening a new one they both created expansion capacity and they made the city more livable, the noise pollution is gone and in it's new location it can't hurt since nobody lives there (or at least very few people). And yet the new Istanbul airport is a success, it's further from the city center but nobody seems to mind, location is of secondary importance as long as the connections are good. By the way, if you're looking for an example in America you should look at Denver. Nobody can say the current Denver airport, despite being further from the city, wasn't an improvement over the old Denver Stapleton Airport.

Stewart airport has a lot of potential, it just doesn't come to fruition yet. But it will be, once airlines start flying there people will find their way to that airport. Right now they just go to JFK or Newark because their flight leaves from there, if their flight would have left from Stewart they would have flown from there.
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 759
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:20 am

Wneast wrote:
I’m hearing that avelo is going to sit up shop there


They are opening a base at HVN later this fall.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:35 am

CairnterriAIR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I’m hearing that avelo is going to sit up shop there


They are opening a base at HVN later this fall.

Yes SWF it there supposed third base in the spring
 
ytib
Posts: 720
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:28 pm

Wneast wrote:
CairnterriAIR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I’m hearing that avelo is going to sit up shop there


They are opening a base at HVN later this fall.

Yes SWF it there supposed third base in the spring


Care to share the source for this?
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:53 am

Wneast wrote:
CairnterriAIR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I’m hearing that avelo is going to sit up shop there


They are opening a base at HVN later this fall.

Yes SWF it there supposed third base in the spring

SERIOUSLY?!?! Not happening. If you care to share a LEGITIMATE source, then I will listen. AVELO is not making SWF a hub. They will concentrate on growth, yes, but they are not going to be here-a-hub there-a-hub everywhere-a-hub airline in less than a year.
 
rj1385
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 am

Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Sun Jul 11, 2021 2:27 pm

I think right now the only potential is that Allegiant may add some more. With jetBlue still not back, I am surprised they haven't add FLL.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: SWF airport--next gateway to NY metro area?

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:57 pm

Frontier just announced service to SWF

MCO - 4x per week starts Oct-25
TPA - 3x per week starts Nov-2
MIA - 3x per week starts Nov-2

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