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GBNorman
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United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:18 am

I searched for a topic covering this point, but was unable to find one.

I flew UA952 to EDDM 04 AUG; the aircraft assigned was a B-787 (leave it to someone else to ferret out the aircraft #). I found the self darkening windows to simply SUCK.

Am I really the only Business Class passenger paying for such who enjoys Flightseeing? I want to see that first landfall over Ireland (and I think of Lindbergh) or "how far out" is EDDM Franz Josef? Or how about on a Westward flight once vectored over Greenland where I've never set foot or expect to - well in this life? All of this Mr. Boeing decided that passengers on his "Dreamliners" are to do just that rather than Flightsee.

Possibly as business picks up, United will choose to round up some 777-222's from the Desert and assign them KORD-EDDM.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:45 am

GBNorman wrote:
I searched for a topic covering this point, but was unable to find one.

I flew UA952 to EDDM 04 AUG; the aircraft assigned was a B-787 (leave it to someone else to ferret out the aircraft #). I found the self darkening windows to simply SUCK.

Am I really the only Business Class passenger paying for such who enjoys Flightseeing? I want to see that first landfall over Ireland (and I think of Lindbergh) or "how far out" is EDDM Franz Josef? Or how about on a Westward flight once vectored over Greenland where I've never set foot or expect to - well in this life? All of this Mr. Boeing decided that passengers on his "Dreamliners" are to do just that rather than Flightsee.

Possibly as business picks up, United will choose to round up some 777-222's from the Desert and assign them KORD-EDDM.


Here we go again.

There are a handful of subjects that are very polarizing (no pun intended) on air travel discussion groups, where there is almost no middle ground. One of them is the battle between dog lovers who want to bring their dogs on airplanes even if they have to disguise them as fake emotional support animals, versus people who want the dumb dogs to be left at home because they dislike being bitten, or sitting in seats where dogs have relieved themselves.

This is another polarizing subject. Many people, myself included, do enjoy looking out the window, to see Greenland, Ireland, or even clouds. However, other passengers view windows as an irritant; they prefer windows be darkened because they find it easier to sleep in a darkened cabin. Because flight attendants strongly support darkened windows, mainly because if more passengers are asleep due to a dark cabin, fewer people will be coming to the galley in search of beverages or snacks, passengers who enjoy looking out the window will, unfortunately, have to accept that they won't be allowed to do so on many flights.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:47 am

I''ve ridden 787s with nearly a dozen airlines, always with window seats, and find this subject to be bizarrely exaggerated.

Unless it's already dark outside, for which visibility would be limited regardless, I've never had a problem seeing or even (casually) photographing, with windows even at full tint during the day.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:58 am

LAX772LR wrote:
I''ve ridden 787s with nearly a dozen airlines, always with window seats, and find this subject to be bizarrely exaggerated.

Unless it's already dark outside, for which visibility would be limited regardless, I've never had a problem seeing or even (casually) photographing, with windows even at full tint during the day.


I suspect the ability of 'someone else' to control 'my' window is what actually irritates people. Its the kind of attitude that emphasises individuals rights, but ignores their responsibilities to others.
 
aircountry
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:14 am

I flew Jetstar 787-8 from Bali to Melbourne overnight and the window went completed dark. I told the flight attendent to turn back on so I can see the window with lights at night. Next time when you sit on the window seat and when it goes dark, ask the flight attendent to switch back to normal so you can see it. Flight attendent control all window seats to full dark.
 
aircountry
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:16 am

same forum like this viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1461441
 
Blerg
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:26 am

BrianDromey wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
I''ve ridden 787s with nearly a dozen airlines, always with window seats, and find this subject to be bizarrely exaggerated.

Unless it's already dark outside, for which visibility would be limited regardless, I've never had a problem seeing or even (casually) photographing, with windows even at full tint during the day.


I suspect the ability of 'someone else' to control 'my' window is what actually irritates people. Its the kind of attitude that emphasises individuals rights, but ignores their responsibilities to others.


By that logic other passengers should have responsibilities towards those that sit by the window, especially those who actually paid to have that seat. Basically you are paying for a window seat which is useless during 99% of the time. I flew LAX-IST on B789 and the windows were darkened 30 minutes after take off and then brought back to normal as we started descending.
 
L0VE2FLY
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:30 am

This awful feature is the reason why I literally go out of my way to avoid the so-called Dreamliner! I know several people who hated their 787 flights because of these stupid windows. The problem is the world is full of idiots and nervous flyers who don't really care about enjoying the views, unfortunately the dimmable windows are here to stay, even Airbus is planning on introducing them. :mad:
 
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747d10
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:31 am

LAX772LR wrote:
I''ve ridden 787s with nearly a dozen airlines, always with window seats, and find this subject to be bizarrely exaggerated.

Unless it's already dark outside, for which visibility would be limited regardless, I've never had a problem seeing or even (casually) photographing, with windows even at full tint during the day.


I flew a 788 from Dulles to Beijing in a window seat. The windows were darkened for the entire flight. Due to the time and routing of the flight I had the sun in my eyes for the entire 14 hours. I was able to enjoy views of northern Canada and Northeast Russia, wearing sunglasses for a good bit of the time!
 
seb76
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:14 am

Windows seats cost just the same as other seats and most people who take one do it for another reasons than the scenery. In any case, this is not the windows of the person sitting there, the light does not stop at your seat and will influence a larger surrounding area. While I'd love to look at landscapes, I respect the right for others to relax and sleep. You have people from different connecting flights on a plane, so some may badly need to sleep while some others prefer not to. People have different needs, but you'll definitely ruin the flight of those who need to sleep if the cabin is too bright. The 787's system is the nicest system as it respects the preference of the majority while the flight attendants don't need to become the windows blind police that has to tell the same person 3 times in a row to shut his blinder... you can actually expect that this product will also be offered by Airbus in the future.

A nice compromise in my opinion that I had on an ANA787 was that after they dimmed all windows, the system still allowed to individually brighten you window to a setting of maximum 50%. That is good enough to let you enjoy some nice (blue-ish) view without flooding the cabin with too much light.
 
Noshow
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:24 am

You can block all light with your body and a windbreaker or similar or plan to sit on the shadow side of the cabin (better view anyway) where a clear view could be permitted all the time. While I agree that fellow passengers interests are relevant I agree that these electronic window shades are a pain because they are centrally and heavy handed master dimmed on many occasions. You won't get them to bright clear manually when pre dimmed and some even have permanent spots in the foil.

Isn't it ironic? First bigger windows get installed and advertised and then they get centrally force dimmed?
Last edited by Noshow on Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:25 am

seb76 wrote:
A nice compromise in my opinion that I had on an ANA787 was that after they dimmed all windows, the system still allowed to individually brighten you window to a setting of maximum 50%. That is good enough to let you enjoy some nice (blue-ish) view without flooding the cabin with too much light.


I believe that BA do something similar. Individual windows are not locked out, but the system is constrained to 30-70% opacity.

Blerg wrote:
By that logic other passengers should have responsibilities towards those that sit by the window, especially those who actually paid to have that seat. Basically you are paying for a window seat which is useless during 99% of the time. I flew LAX-IST on B789 and the windows were darkened 30 minutes after take off and then brought back to normal as we started descending.

In a shared space, I do think that everyone has a responsibility to each other. There is a concept called compromise, it is alien on the internet though.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:28 am

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Good-Night-Eye ... B009V0IUWU

Magic! Problem solved! If you don't want to look out the window then don't. I also have this magic ability to (i think this is how you spell it) close my eyes? any one else able to do that?

If I'm flying economy then I'll actively avoid the 787 if possible, the stupid window shades controlled by someone else does play a part in this as does the 9 abreast seating. Sadly I think its something that's harder and harder to avoid. If I am flying premium cabin I don't tend to care too much.

Fred
 
flyboy80
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:40 am

I love natural light and cant understand why anyone wants to be shut out from it. I live in an early 1900s home, there is just enough shrubs and large flowers around the outside windows to break up too much direct sunlight, which looks beautiful streaming through the lead windows and onto the old floors. I think most people like light and viewing outside scenery- otherwise desirable new homes and office spaces wouldn’t seem to prioritize this design aesthetic.

If you intend to sleep, bring a mask. The worst is when the cabin is dark and the reflections of dozens of ptvs are flashing, I find that light much more disturbing then some natural outside light.
 
77H
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:46 am

This shouldn't be polarizing. It's really simple. If you've paid for a ticket, and booked a window seat, use of that window should be at the discretion of the window seat occupant other than as required for safety such as takeoff and landing..

For those who like a darkened cabin, next time select a window seat, close the shade or turn it to max tint. That way you ensure your area is dark.

I like a dark cabin on redeye flights.. yet I often find other passengers keep their PTVs or reading lights on the whole flight regardless of being actively used. An aircraft cabin with 100-300 PTVs on is far worse than sunlight from open windows, at least sunlight is natural light and not the exact type of blue wavelength light widely known to impact sleep ability.

If you are a person who advocates for the FAs to have full authority of the window controls to be set to max tint, then you should also advocate for PTVs and reading lights to be shut down if someone desires a dark cabin to sleep correct? If not, than your view on window shades/tinting is of little worth.

Here is the simplest solution. Buy a sleep mask and stuff it...

Black out a window seat I'm sitting at and the call button is coming on requesting window control authority back. If it's still an issue.. that's what formal complaints are for.

77H
 
Perriwen
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:05 am

I'm just gonna throw this out-I notice in many, many of my spotting shots, about half to 3/4 the window shades are down.

That tells me just how important the window is to the majority of air travelers out there. I can't see an airline pulling planes out of the desert over windows if most the people flying don't even really care about them.
 
AshFlops
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:58 am

I have flown United 787s countless times, just push the button to undim the window. Why is this even a question in the forum?
 
RJNUT
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:00 pm

i flew in Polaris in June ORD-HNL and had complete control during that daylight flight
 
flipdewaf
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:07 pm

AshFlops wrote:
I have flown United 787s countless times, just push the button to undim the window. Why is this even a question in the forum?

The issue is that the at window controls can be overridden, and so the occupier of the window seat doesn't always have control of the darkness. Imagine being told you have to recline your seat because Dave 3 rows away doesn't like having seats upright.

Fred
 
Chuska
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:44 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
AshFlops wrote:
I have flown United 787s countless times, just push the button to undim the window. Why is this even a question in the forum?

The issue is that the at window controls can be overridden, and so the occupier of the window seat doesn't always have control of the darkness. Imagine being told you have to recline your seat because Dave 3 rows away doesn't like having seats upright.

Fred


Fred, you couldn't have said it any better. 787 windows suck!

Another Fred
 
Cubsrule
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:59 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
Blerg wrote:
By that logic other passengers should have responsibilities towards those that sit by the window, especially those who actually paid to have that seat. Basically you are paying for a window seat which is useless during 99% of the time. I flew LAX-IST on B789 and the windows were darkened 30 minutes after take off and then brought back to normal as we started descending.

In a shared space, I do think that everyone has a responsibility to each other. There is a concept called compromise, it is alien on the internet though.


But what is that shared responsibility? On westbound TATL flights, many people (me included) swear by using the natural light to acclimate to the time zone change. Others swear by sleeping. The two are irreconcilable. It's different on flights like US-South America where virtually everyone is sleeping.
 
foxalphazulu
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:02 pm

77H wrote:

I like a dark cabin on redeye flights.. yet I often find other passengers keep their PTVs or reading lights on the whole flight regardless of being actively used. An aircraft cabin with 100-300 PTVs on is far worse than sunlight from open windows, at least sunlight is natural light and not the exact type of blue wavelength light widely known to impact sleep ability.

77H


PTVs and reading lights are narrow-beams in that they don’t diffuse over an area. Often these are limited in brightness so I don’t get your point.

Seems like your issue is “someone else is in control of things”. I guess on a plane you’re really not in control of anything since it’s a pilot flying the plane and all of us are federally mandated (US) to comply with crew member instructions.

So yes ring up that call button many times to get yourself into “non compliant / disruptive” territory and let’s see where that gets you.

It’s a window that allows partial views. Period. How the airline controls is their prerogative. I guess this is why they have private jets ;).
 
9QCLI
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:09 pm

I've done EWR-FRA and IAD-FRA on UA several times this year, and I had full control of the window although it seemed to reverse back to full dark after a while. Not an issue as I was able to fully enjoy the view when I wanted.
 
VMCA787
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:19 pm

I can’t believe this thread is still going. Ashy do people have this mentality of “I purchased that seat”.

NO you did not! You purchased a space to go from A to B. Nothing more. Check the “ Contact of Carriage”. What you purchased and the obligations of both parties are clearly spelled out.

Don’t like the shades dimmed? Get over it!! Want a view, charter an aircraft. Don’t complain if you are above an undercast!! Or even better would be clouds from the surface to FL 430!!!
 
Noshow
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:21 pm

It's coming back because it upsets people all the time. Paying passengers.
 
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Crosswind
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:39 pm

VMCA787 wrote:
I can’t believe this thread is still going. Ashy do people have this mentality of “I purchased that seat”.

NO you did not! You purchased a space to go from A to B. Nothing more. Check the “ Contact of Carriage”. What you purchased and the obligations of both parties are clearly spelled out.

Don’t like the shades dimmed? Get over it!! Want a view, charter an aircraft. Don’t complain if you are above an undercast!! Or even better would be clouds from the surface to FL 430!!!


You do know this is an aviation website don't you? Are you seriously advocating flying in a dark windowless tube?
A huge part of the magic of flight is seeing all the incredible things outside the window that you just will never see any other time.

And a ridiculous rant to boot that if you want a view you should charter an aircraft. How about if you want to sleep in the middle of the day, use the sleep mask in your amenity kit (if you're flying a decent airline) or buy one (if you're not)

The big issue seems to be with US carriers, where the lazy crews want a dark cabin so everyone sleeps and they don't have to do any work. On a flight from London-New York entirely in daylight in the middle of the day its a very odd situation. Do you normally sleep at 3pm?
 
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drerx7
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:43 pm

Sounds like an individual flight crew problem. I've flown United 787s about 6 times in the last 4 months...I have had complete control of my window even after they dimmed them.
 
aaexecplat
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:45 pm

A few things....

I just flew IAH-FRA-IAH on a UA 787-9 and also dealt with the dark shades. On the Eastbound portion, I think this makes sense as getting sleep is important to minimize jetlag. And I was able to brighten the window without issue manually. And no FA came by and told me to darken it.

On the Westbound segment, darkening the windows makes ZERO sense because staying awake and NOT sleeping is what helps overcome jetlag. So for the airline to black out the cabin is absurd. I suspect that it really is just a way for the FAs to have to do less work. I see no other reason to explain this.

I have flown lots of other airlines on long-hauls to and from Asia including TG, NH, SQ, CX, LH etc and almost ALL encouraged shutting window shades on eastbound overnights. On SQ and CX, the FAs walked through the J and PE cabins asking folks to shut them or shutting them on their own. On westbound segments, I don't remember ever being asked to shut shades during the daytime.
 
jeffh747
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:54 pm

seb76 wrote:
Windows seats cost just the same as other seats and most people who take one do it for another reasons than the scenery. In any case, this is not the windows of the person sitting there, the light does not stop at your seat and will influence a larger surrounding area. While I'd love to look at landscapes, I respect the right for others to relax and sleep. You have people from different connecting flights on a plane, so some may badly need to sleep while some others prefer not to. People have different needs, but you'll definitely ruin the flight of those who need to sleep if the cabin is too bright. The 787's system is the nicest system as it respects the preference of the majority while the flight attendants don't need to become the windows blind police that has to tell the same person 3 times in a row to shut his blinder... you can actually expect that this product will also be offered by Airbus in the future.

A nice compromise in my opinion that I had on an ANA787 was that after they dimmed all windows, the system still allowed to individually brighten you window to a setting of maximum 50%. That is good enough to let you enjoy some nice (blue-ish) view without flooding the cabin with too much light.

These dimming windows are the exact reason why I love the 787 so much. Everything is about compromise! While I also love to enjoy seeing outside (I always book a window seat), it's great to be able to do so at a dimmed setting so I don't worry about disrupting other passengers. It simply isn't fair to look outside at full brightness when mostly everyone wants to rest. Most of my flights have been locked to the 50% setting as well, and that is more than enough brightness to still enjoy the scenery.

At the end of the day, you're buying a seat to get you from point A to point B. Window control is only a small part of it, and compromise can go a long way in keeping everyone happy. At least the 787 makes it easier to do so.
 
Stewie787
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:07 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
GBNorman wrote:
I searched for a topic covering this point, but was unable to find one.

I flew UA952 to EDDM 04 AUG; the aircraft assigned was a B-787 (leave it to someone else to ferret out the aircraft #). I found the self darkening windows to simply SUCK.

Am I really the only Business Class passenger paying for such who enjoys Flightseeing? I want to see that first landfall over Ireland (and I think of Lindbergh) or "how far out" is EDDM Franz Josef? Or how about on a Westward flight once vectored over Greenland where I've never set foot or expect to - well in this life? All of this Mr. Boeing decided that passengers on his "Dreamliners" are to do just that rather than Flightsee.

Possibly as business picks up, United will choose to round up some 777-222's from the Desert and assign them KORD-EDDM.


Here we go again.

Because flight attendants strongly support darkened windows, mainly because if more passengers are asleep due to a dark cabin, fewer people will be coming to the galley in search of beverages or snacks, passengers who enjoy looking out the window will, unfortunately, have to accept that they won't be allowed to do so on many flights.

This is simply the perceived opinion of many but in reality not true, on long flights where We have had a break, I do not enjoy sitting on a seat in the galley fighting fatigue/jet lag and happy for the distraction of someone coming for a drink, it’s hardly a nuisance and any FA who see it like this need to leave as it’s part of the job. The cabin being dark is a basic courtesy to the majority of the customers who wish to sleep why should the rest of the cabin be awake because the minority (one) want to see out?
 
foxalphazulu
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:15 pm

Crosswind wrote:

You do know this is an aviation website don't you? Are you seriously advocating flying in a dark windowless tube?
A huge part of the magic of flight is seeing all the incredible things outside the window that you just will never see any other time.


And you do know that dimming the 787 windows is not the same as flying in a dark windowless tube, don’t you?
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:17 pm

I flew AA from LAX to PEK on a 787 in Business Class and they darkened the windows from shortly after takeoff until just before landing. I couldn't see a thing outside the whole time. It irritated me enough that I purposely seek out other aircraft such as a 777 when flying transpac now.

If the light bothers you then bring eye covers.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:33 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
But what is that shared responsibility? On westbound TATL flights, many people (me included) swear by using the natural light to acclimate to the time zone change. Others swear by sleeping. The two are irreconcilable..

LOL, no it isn't.

The ones who want to sleep can put an eye-cover on... many of the airlines provide them, or they could take personal responsibility and get them themselves.

"Problem" solved.
 
skipness1E
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:00 pm

The problem is made worse by the size of the windows. They're huge and they let in enormous amounts of light. Now I love a window seat to peek out and on the B747, B767, B777, A330/A340 it's usually much less invasive to have a few shades half open so people can look out, rather than the frankly huge window undimmed on the B787.
But yes, I avoid the B787 on long haul where I can.
BA don't lock out windows btw, Air Canada and Virgin dropped to the mid level 3/5.
 
Electra
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:36 pm

Stewie787 wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
GBNorman wrote:
I searched for a topic covering this point, but was unable to find one.

I flew UA952 to EDDM 04 AUG; the aircraft assigned was a B-787 (leave it to someone else to ferret out the aircraft #). I found the self darkening windows to simply SUCK.

Am I really the only Business Class passenger paying for such who enjoys Flightseeing? I want to see that first landfall over Ireland (and I think of Lindbergh) or "how far out" is EDDM Franz Josef? Or how about on a Westward flight once vectored over Greenland where I've never set foot or expect to - well in this life? All of this Mr. Boeing decided that passengers on his "Dreamliners" are to do just that rather than Flightsee.

Possibly as business picks up, United will choose to round up some 777-222's from the Desert and assign them KORD-EDDM.


Here we go again.

Because flight attendants strongly support darkened windows, mainly because if more passengers are asleep due to a dark cabin, fewer people will be coming to the galley in search of beverages or snacks, passengers who enjoy looking out the window will, unfortunately, have to accept that they won't be allowed to do so on many flights.

This is simply the perceived opinion of many but in reality not true, on long flights where We have had a break, I do not enjoy sitting on a seat in the galley fighting fatigue/jet lag and happy for the distraction of someone coming for a drink, it’s hardly a nuisance and any FA who see it like this need to leave as it’s part of the job. The cabin being dark is a basic courtesy to the majority of the customers who wish to sleep why should the rest of the cabin be awake because the minority (one) want to see out?


Absolutely!
It is such a widespread misconception that crew encourage a darkened cabin so that passengers will sleep.
In reality, aircraft cabins will be busy during ‘daylight’ hours, regardless of whether the cabin is dark or not.
Take an eastbound long haul morning departure where the sun naturally sets after only a few hours; even when it is dark, most people are still awake which maintains a busier atmosphere.
Similarly, on late night departures during which the sun rises after a couple of hours, passengers will continue to sleep even if there is light; these a definitely the type of flights where it is considerate to keep the shades down to allow other to sleep.
 
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ADent
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:01 pm

It’s not just 787.

I have been on planes where they ask on the PA to close all the traditional shades and stop by and ask outliers to please close your shade.

On 787 they can just do it with out all that fuss from a central location.
 
Kent350787
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:54 pm

Never with UA, but I have 5 medium-long-haul sectors on 787. I love flightseeing, and spent most of my last pre-Covid sector (admittedly 77W daytime) doing exactly that.

I'd rather 787 windows fully dimmed (which you can still see through, and JL at least has physical cushion plugs for winter trans-paciifc flights for exactly this reason) that being "politely asked" to keep my blinds fully shut on other aircraft.
 
Max Q
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:03 am

When I was a kid I used to love everything about the passenger flying experience, I didn’t want to get off the aircraft at the end of the flight



This window controversy is just another example of what a lousy experience most of us endure while traveling these days


Personally I’d be quite happy to be given a shot to put me out before take off and then another to wake me up after landing these days
 
77H
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:09 pm

foxalphazulu wrote:
77H wrote:

I like a dark cabin on redeye flights.. yet I often find other passengers keep their PTVs or reading lights on the whole flight regardless of being actively used. An aircraft cabin with 100-300 PTVs on is far worse than sunlight from open windows, at least sunlight is natural light and not the exact type of blue wavelength light widely known to impact sleep ability.

77H


PTVs and reading lights are narrow-beams in that they don’t diffuse over an area. Often these are limited in brightness so I don’t get your point.

Seems like your issue is “someone else is in control of things”. I guess on a plane you’re really not in control of anything since it’s a pilot flying the plane and all of us are federally mandated (US) to comply with crew member instructions.

So yes ring up that call button many times to get yourself into “non compliant / disruptive” territory and let’s see where that gets you.

It’s a window that allows partial views. Period. How the airline controls is their prerogative. I guess this is why they have private jets ;).


Consider reading more carefully. We're not talking about 1 PTV or 1 reading light. That same as we're not talking about every window being open/set to min dim..
Many passengers leave their seat back PTV on regardless of whether they're actually using it. Mainline aircraft seat anywhere from 100-365 seats meaning 100-365 PTVs, many of which remain on throughout the flight.. Try sitting in the back of a 180-235 seat NB with nearly every PTV lit up and tell me it's not every bit as disruptive as a few select windows being open/set to min dim..

Furthermore, help me understand wherein my original post I said anything about incessantly pushing the call button to the point it becomes non-compliance/disruptive behavior?

Also, your assertion that my stance comes from this rooted desire to be in control couldn't be further off the mark... I am generally a very relaxed and silent traveler. I typically try to get from curbside to curbside while talking to as few people as possible. However, I choose a window seat any time it's available to the extent that I have passed on offered upgrades to premium cabin seating in favor of a window seat in economy. Why? Because I enjoy looking out the window at my discretion because I still find flying to be awe inspiring, and as someone who holds a bachelors degree in geography, I'm a sucker for aerial views. I also happen to have an interest in meteorology so looking out at various cloud formations en route is enjoyable to me.

For 80-90% of any given flight my window shade is down or fully tinted as I cognizant and courteous of others. That said, I feel that if I booked a ticket, selected a window seat, I should be permitted to use the features associated with that seat at my discretion while I occupy it the same way an aisle seat customer would expect their seat to allow them to freely access the aisle. I value a view over access to the aisle. So my argument is/was, if you are a passenger who is bothered by open windows, book and select a window seat so you can ensure the closest window to you remain closed.

77H
 
GBNorman
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:44 pm

Well, the return EDDM to KORD was this past Wednesday. 11AUG and there it seemed as the windows were not quite as darkended. Now some of that may have been the result in changing my seat from my Eastward 5A to 6A. If you enjoy flightseeing and are willing to pay for Business Class, 5A should avoided as it has one only window (seatguru reports on this).

Now an FA friend with an '84 date says how she much prefers to work a 787 over a 777. She also told me she thinks I'm the only Business Class who wants to flightsee. Now if she were to poke around here, she'd there are many another.
 
Max Q
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:54 pm

GBNorman wrote:
Well, the return EDDM to KORD was this past Wednesday. 11AUG and there it seemed as the windows were not quite as darkended. Now some of that may have been the result in changing my seat from my Eastward 5A to 6A. If you enjoy flightseeing and are willing to pay for Business Class, 5A should avoided as it has one only window (seatguru reports on this).

Now an FA friend with an '84 date says how she much prefers to work a 787 over a 777. She also told me she thinks I'm the only Business Class who wants to flightsee. Now if she were to poke around here, she'd there are many another.




Kinda says it all


Flight attendants prefer the 787 because they can control the window darkening, hoping people will all go to sleep and lower their workload


This was predictable !
 
GBNorman
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:18 pm

Here's a Journal "Middle Seat" column profiling a film director who does 100K a year and enjoys flightseeing:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/director-b ... lewebshare

I guess with his favorable comments regarding the B-787, he must get on flights where the Attendants allow passengers to control the brightness.
 
PI4EVR
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:39 pm

F/A's on AA no longer mess with dimming the windows after takeoff. One less thing to think of or remember to do, and many of us "sightseers" appreciate it. On a day time flight to Japan there is awesome scenery to see over Alaska and into Japan, and even more so in winter. Once it is dark outside, its a non issue.
I remember a very matter-of-fact JFK based DL F/A got all hot and bothered on a JFK-BCN flight when we opened the shades after sunrise "because fellow passengers are trying to sleep." Duh. You turned on the cabin lights, are serving coffee and a frozen muffin banging a cart down the aisle and now you want to hide a sunrise off the coast of Spain because someone short of a corpse could sleep through your service!
 
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BoeingERJ1000
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:56 pm

I've flown on 2 787 flights: BA225 LHR-MSY (August 4 2018) and AA36 DFW-MAD (August 1-2 2021). On the BA flight (which was a 787-9), the windows weren't dimmed, but on the AA one (787-9), the windows were dimmed from dinner until before breakfast. It was kind of annoying because I wanted to have some views of some cities at night (we even flew west from DC), although it did help me sleep (especially because I used an eyemask from a 2016 Business Class flight) and we got an interesting purple sunrise over Spain. So while the F/A-controlled dimming windows limit night views, they're not a problem on Westward flights, at least from my experience. So I guess you can get views of Greenland, as long as it's during the day.
 
GBNorman
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:12 pm

Mr. ERJ 1000, regarding Greenland, during '19 my Westward EDDM to KORD UA flight with a B-772 was vectored over Greenland. Looking out over a land I'd never seen before, I was quickly "jumped" by an Attendant (I later learned "she's not known for her tact"), but I solved the problem by placing my jacket as a shield (think photographer with an old Grafflex).

Earlier this month with the dimmed 788 windows, I thought I was seeing a phenomenon; a Red sunrise!!!

At 80yo, I'm not sure how many more overseas flights I can expect to make, but I'd sure appreciate if I can do my Flightseeing.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:20 pm

77H wrote:
For 80-90% of any given flight my window shade is down or fully tinted (...).

Than what's the point of having a window seat?

For 95-100% of any given flight my window shade is up.

I won't travel on the 787 because of the insane window locking. Although I might give American Airlines a chance. Because their crew have been instructed to no longer lock dimmable windows.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1461441&p=22816027#p22816027
 
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BoeingERJ1000
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:02 pm

GBNorman wrote:
Mr. ERJ 1000, regarding Greenland, during '19 my Westward EDDM to KORD UA flight with a B-772 was vectored over Greenland. Looking out over a land I'd never seen before, I was quickly "jumped" by an Attendant (I later learned "she's not known for her tact"), but I solved the problem by placing my jacket as a shield (think photographer with an old Grafflex).

Earlier this month with the dimmed 788 windows, I thought I was seeing a phenomenon; a Red sunrise!!!

At 80yo, I'm not sure how many more overseas flights I can expect to make, but I'd sure appreciate if I can do my Flightseeing.


I also like to do flightseeing, don't get me wrong. The only good thing about the dimming windows is how they can make the sunrise seem purple.
Wait, so, on the B772 flight, the F/A wouldn't let you look out and see Greenland? That just sucks.
 
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BoeingERJ1000
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:05 pm

GBNorman wrote:
Mr. ERJ 1000, regarding Greenland, during '19 my Westward EDDM to KORD UA flight with a B-772 was vectored over Greenland. Looking out over a land I'd never seen before, I was quickly "jumped" by an Attendant (I later learned "she's not known for her tact"), but I solved the problem by placing my jacket as a shield (think photographer with an old Grafflex).

Earlier this month with the dimmed 788 windows, I thought I was seeing a phenomenon; a Red sunrise!!!

At 80yo, I'm not sure how many more overseas flights I can expect to make, but I'd sure appreciate if I can do my Flightseeing.


I also like to do flightseeing, don't get me wrong. The only good thing about the dimming windows is how they can make the sunrise seem purple.
Wait, so, on the B772 flight, the F/A wouldn't let you look out and see Greenland? That just sucks.
 
pnut
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Re: United 787-8 Darkening.Windows.- Uh, Hello?

Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:12 pm

Max Q wrote:
GBNorman wrote:
Well, the return EDDM to KORD was this past Wednesday. 11AUG and there it seemed as the windows were not quite as darkended. Now some of that may have been the result in changing my seat from my Eastward 5A to 6A. If you enjoy flightseeing and are willing to pay for Business Class, 5A should avoided as it has one only window (seatguru reports on this).

Now an FA friend with an '84 date says how she much prefers to work a 787 over a 777. She also told me she thinks I'm the only Business Class who wants to flightsee. Now if she were to poke around here, she'd there are many another.




Kinda says it all


Flight attendants prefer the 787 because they can control the window darkening, hoping people will all go to sleep and lower their workload


This was predictable !


I hope this was "tongue in cheek" humor, and not meant to imply that Cabin Crew are universally lazy.

I, personally, have seen some Cabin Crew take a controlling stance to window shade position. I have also seen MOST Cabin Crew be ambivalent to the window shade position, usual exception: red-eye flights going into daylight-where there has been a polite persuasion of sorts- but no hard mandate to close window shades.

I enjoy the scenery out the window all the time, even on night flights. However, I also realize there are certain periods where the sunlight can be glaring and harsh to my seatmates, and I lower the shade. I have not yet flown on the 787, but it seems to be the closest to compromise available.

Speaking of views, apart from going over Greenland or the Swiss Alps, does anyone find the moonlight over the Pacific- on a Hawaiian red eye back to the mainland- to be magical?! :cloudnine:

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