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GBNorman wrote:I searched for a topic covering this point, but was unable to find one.
I flew UA952 to EDDM 04 AUG; the aircraft assigned was a B-787 (leave it to someone else to ferret out the aircraft #). I found the self darkening windows to simply SUCK.
Am I really the only Business Class passenger paying for such who enjoys Flightseeing? I want to see that first landfall over Ireland (and I think of Lindbergh) or "how far out" is EDDM Franz Josef? Or how about on a Westward flight once vectored over Greenland where I've never set foot or expect to - well in this life? All of this Mr. Boeing decided that passengers on his "Dreamliners" are to do just that rather than Flightsee.
Possibly as business picks up, United will choose to round up some 777-222's from the Desert and assign them KORD-EDDM.
LAX772LR wrote:I''ve ridden 787s with nearly a dozen airlines, always with window seats, and find this subject to be bizarrely exaggerated.
Unless it's already dark outside, for which visibility would be limited regardless, I've never had a problem seeing or even (casually) photographing, with windows even at full tint during the day.
BrianDromey wrote:LAX772LR wrote:I''ve ridden 787s with nearly a dozen airlines, always with window seats, and find this subject to be bizarrely exaggerated.
Unless it's already dark outside, for which visibility would be limited regardless, I've never had a problem seeing or even (casually) photographing, with windows even at full tint during the day.
I suspect the ability of 'someone else' to control 'my' window is what actually irritates people. Its the kind of attitude that emphasises individuals rights, but ignores their responsibilities to others.
LAX772LR wrote:I''ve ridden 787s with nearly a dozen airlines, always with window seats, and find this subject to be bizarrely exaggerated.
Unless it's already dark outside, for which visibility would be limited regardless, I've never had a problem seeing or even (casually) photographing, with windows even at full tint during the day.
seb76 wrote:A nice compromise in my opinion that I had on an ANA787 was that after they dimmed all windows, the system still allowed to individually brighten you window to a setting of maximum 50%. That is good enough to let you enjoy some nice (blue-ish) view without flooding the cabin with too much light.
Blerg wrote:By that logic other passengers should have responsibilities towards those that sit by the window, especially those who actually paid to have that seat. Basically you are paying for a window seat which is useless during 99% of the time. I flew LAX-IST on B789 and the windows were darkened 30 minutes after take off and then brought back to normal as we started descending.
AshFlops wrote:I have flown United 787s countless times, just push the button to undim the window. Why is this even a question in the forum?
flipdewaf wrote:AshFlops wrote:I have flown United 787s countless times, just push the button to undim the window. Why is this even a question in the forum?
The issue is that the at window controls can be overridden, and so the occupier of the window seat doesn't always have control of the darkness. Imagine being told you have to recline your seat because Dave 3 rows away doesn't like having seats upright.
Fred
BrianDromey wrote:Blerg wrote:By that logic other passengers should have responsibilities towards those that sit by the window, especially those who actually paid to have that seat. Basically you are paying for a window seat which is useless during 99% of the time. I flew LAX-IST on B789 and the windows were darkened 30 minutes after take off and then brought back to normal as we started descending.
In a shared space, I do think that everyone has a responsibility to each other. There is a concept called compromise, it is alien on the internet though.
77H wrote:
I like a dark cabin on redeye flights.. yet I often find other passengers keep their PTVs or reading lights on the whole flight regardless of being actively used. An aircraft cabin with 100-300 PTVs on is far worse than sunlight from open windows, at least sunlight is natural light and not the exact type of blue wavelength light widely known to impact sleep ability.
77H
VMCA787 wrote:I can’t believe this thread is still going. Ashy do people have this mentality of “I purchased that seat”.
NO you did not! You purchased a space to go from A to B. Nothing more. Check the “ Contact of Carriage”. What you purchased and the obligations of both parties are clearly spelled out.
Don’t like the shades dimmed? Get over it!! Want a view, charter an aircraft. Don’t complain if you are above an undercast!! Or even better would be clouds from the surface to FL 430!!!
seb76 wrote:Windows seats cost just the same as other seats and most people who take one do it for another reasons than the scenery. In any case, this is not the windows of the person sitting there, the light does not stop at your seat and will influence a larger surrounding area. While I'd love to look at landscapes, I respect the right for others to relax and sleep. You have people from different connecting flights on a plane, so some may badly need to sleep while some others prefer not to. People have different needs, but you'll definitely ruin the flight of those who need to sleep if the cabin is too bright. The 787's system is the nicest system as it respects the preference of the majority while the flight attendants don't need to become the windows blind police that has to tell the same person 3 times in a row to shut his blinder... you can actually expect that this product will also be offered by Airbus in the future.
A nice compromise in my opinion that I had on an ANA787 was that after they dimmed all windows, the system still allowed to individually brighten you window to a setting of maximum 50%. That is good enough to let you enjoy some nice (blue-ish) view without flooding the cabin with too much light.
WA707atMSP wrote:GBNorman wrote:I searched for a topic covering this point, but was unable to find one.
I flew UA952 to EDDM 04 AUG; the aircraft assigned was a B-787 (leave it to someone else to ferret out the aircraft #). I found the self darkening windows to simply SUCK.
Am I really the only Business Class passenger paying for such who enjoys Flightseeing? I want to see that first landfall over Ireland (and I think of Lindbergh) or "how far out" is EDDM Franz Josef? Or how about on a Westward flight once vectored over Greenland where I've never set foot or expect to - well in this life? All of this Mr. Boeing decided that passengers on his "Dreamliners" are to do just that rather than Flightsee.
Possibly as business picks up, United will choose to round up some 777-222's from the Desert and assign them KORD-EDDM.
Here we go again.
Because flight attendants strongly support darkened windows, mainly because if more passengers are asleep due to a dark cabin, fewer people will be coming to the galley in search of beverages or snacks, passengers who enjoy looking out the window will, unfortunately, have to accept that they won't be allowed to do so on many flights.
Crosswind wrote:
You do know this is an aviation website don't you? Are you seriously advocating flying in a dark windowless tube?
A huge part of the magic of flight is seeing all the incredible things outside the window that you just will never see any other time.
Cubsrule wrote:But what is that shared responsibility? On westbound TATL flights, many people (me included) swear by using the natural light to acclimate to the time zone change. Others swear by sleeping. The two are irreconcilable..
Stewie787 wrote:WA707atMSP wrote:GBNorman wrote:I searched for a topic covering this point, but was unable to find one.
I flew UA952 to EDDM 04 AUG; the aircraft assigned was a B-787 (leave it to someone else to ferret out the aircraft #). I found the self darkening windows to simply SUCK.
Am I really the only Business Class passenger paying for such who enjoys Flightseeing? I want to see that first landfall over Ireland (and I think of Lindbergh) or "how far out" is EDDM Franz Josef? Or how about on a Westward flight once vectored over Greenland where I've never set foot or expect to - well in this life? All of this Mr. Boeing decided that passengers on his "Dreamliners" are to do just that rather than Flightsee.
Possibly as business picks up, United will choose to round up some 777-222's from the Desert and assign them KORD-EDDM.
Here we go again.
Because flight attendants strongly support darkened windows, mainly because if more passengers are asleep due to a dark cabin, fewer people will be coming to the galley in search of beverages or snacks, passengers who enjoy looking out the window will, unfortunately, have to accept that they won't be allowed to do so on many flights.
This is simply the perceived opinion of many but in reality not true, on long flights where We have had a break, I do not enjoy sitting on a seat in the galley fighting fatigue/jet lag and happy for the distraction of someone coming for a drink, it’s hardly a nuisance and any FA who see it like this need to leave as it’s part of the job. The cabin being dark is a basic courtesy to the majority of the customers who wish to sleep why should the rest of the cabin be awake because the minority (one) want to see out?
foxalphazulu wrote:77H wrote:
I like a dark cabin on redeye flights.. yet I often find other passengers keep their PTVs or reading lights on the whole flight regardless of being actively used. An aircraft cabin with 100-300 PTVs on is far worse than sunlight from open windows, at least sunlight is natural light and not the exact type of blue wavelength light widely known to impact sleep ability.
77H
PTVs and reading lights are narrow-beams in that they don’t diffuse over an area. Often these are limited in brightness so I don’t get your point.
Seems like your issue is “someone else is in control of things”. I guess on a plane you’re really not in control of anything since it’s a pilot flying the plane and all of us are federally mandated (US) to comply with crew member instructions.
So yes ring up that call button many times to get yourself into “non compliant / disruptive” territory and let’s see where that gets you.
It’s a window that allows partial views. Period. How the airline controls is their prerogative. I guess this is why they have private jets .
GBNorman wrote:Well, the return EDDM to KORD was this past Wednesday. 11AUG and there it seemed as the windows were not quite as darkended. Now some of that may have been the result in changing my seat from my Eastward 5A to 6A. If you enjoy flightseeing and are willing to pay for Business Class, 5A should avoided as it has one only window (seatguru reports on this).
Now an FA friend with an '84 date says how she much prefers to work a 787 over a 777. She also told me she thinks I'm the only Business Class who wants to flightsee. Now if she were to poke around here, she'd there are many another.
77H wrote:For 80-90% of any given flight my window shade is down or fully tinted (...).
GBNorman wrote:Mr. ERJ 1000, regarding Greenland, during '19 my Westward EDDM to KORD UA flight with a B-772 was vectored over Greenland. Looking out over a land I'd never seen before, I was quickly "jumped" by an Attendant (I later learned "she's not known for her tact"), but I solved the problem by placing my jacket as a shield (think photographer with an old Grafflex).
Earlier this month with the dimmed 788 windows, I thought I was seeing a phenomenon; a Red sunrise!!!
At 80yo, I'm not sure how many more overseas flights I can expect to make, but I'd sure appreciate if I can do my Flightseeing.
Max Q wrote:GBNorman wrote:Well, the return EDDM to KORD was this past Wednesday. 11AUG and there it seemed as the windows were not quite as darkended. Now some of that may have been the result in changing my seat from my Eastward 5A to 6A. If you enjoy flightseeing and are willing to pay for Business Class, 5A should avoided as it has one only window (seatguru reports on this).
Now an FA friend with an '84 date says how she much prefers to work a 787 over a 777. She also told me she thinks I'm the only Business Class who wants to flightsee. Now if she were to poke around here, she'd there are many another.
Kinda says it all
Flight attendants prefer the 787 because they can control the window darkening, hoping people will all go to sleep and lower their workload
This was predictable !