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leftcoast8
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Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:16 am

BA had eight daily flights between LHR and JFK, using a mix of refurbbed 777-200A, super hi J 747-400 with 86 Club World flatbed seats, and 4-class refurbbed 777-200ERs. For winter 2019, they threw in 777-300ERs which had been retrofitted with the 2017 First cabin (debuted on the 787-9) and Club Suites (from the A350-1000). Meanwhile, their JV partner AA had four daily flights using 777-200As and 77Ws.

There were double daily all-J A318s that flew from London City Airport to JFK, pax went through U.S. border preclearance at the fuel stop in Shannon, Ireland, allowing arrival at JFK's Terminal 7 as a domestic flight. From there a car service could whisk you immediately to Lower Manhattan or Midtown. There were double daily flights on Concorde. I think it can be safely said that JFK-LHR is all about frequency, speed and convenience.

Meanwhile, Delta had double daily A330-200s and their JV partner Virgin Atlantic had four daily A350-1000 flights. For summer 2020, there were plans for a fitfh VS rotation and triple daily Delta flights with the refurbbed 767-400ERs: eight daily Skyteam flights in all.

In Japan, domestic flights once used 520+ passenger 747s designed specifically for Japanese shorthaul routes. Especially during the asset price bubble era of the 1980s. Today, domestic flights mostly use narrowbodies; JAL has 737NGs while ANA uses the A32x/A32xneo family. For higher demand routes, 787s and A350s have replaced the 3 and 4 holers of old, like JAL's "J-Bird" MD-11s. There can be 4-5 flights departing every hour on trunk routes out of Haneda like Sapporo, Itami, Fukuoka and Okinawa (Naha).

What are some other examples of heavily trafficked routes where frequency, speed and convenience were more important than raw capacity? Especially considering JFK actually got quite a few TATL A380s: double daily from Frankfurt (LH/SQ), daily from Munich (LH) and Paris CDG (AF), among others.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:24 am

How about JFK-LAX? With all the flights on AA, DL and B6.
If you want to count NYC as a whole, you can add UA EWR-LAX
 
Kent350787
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:41 am

Outside Covid, SYD-MEL has departures each 15 mins in peak, alternating A332 and 738
 
hoons90
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Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:58 am

Air Canada's Rapidair service (Toronto-Montreal, Ottawa)
Seoul-Jeju
Seoul-Busan
Sao Paulo-Rio de Janeiro (Ponte Aérea)
Sao Paulo-Porto Alegre
 
 
N1120A
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:25 pm

Nearly every short haul route between major markets in North America follows this. LAX-SFO can even see E175s, just to back fill frequency.
 
stlgph
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:16 pm

New York City (whole) // Chicago (whole) pre-covid.
 
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conaly
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 10:50 pm

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:19 pm

In Germany there are a few high frequency routes between MUC, FRA, BER, CGN, DUS and HAM. Using some rough numbers from before the pandemic there could be somewhat between 15 and almost 30 flights per day on following routes:
Frankfurt-Berlin
Munich-Berlin
Munich-Düsseldorf
Munich-Hamburg
Munich-Cologne
Cologne-Berlin

Flights mostly on A320 series aircraft, sometimes also CRJ900 or E190/195. On rare occasions (special events, crew training) LH was even using all kinds of widebody aircraft.

Pretty sure some other European countries had similar numbers between their biggest cities like Paris-Lyon, Paris-Bordeaux, Madrid-Barcelona etc.
 
J343
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:49 pm

I would think HKG - MNL vv
CX flies 7 daily and it’s a mixture of their high density B773, B77W (4 and 3 class), A359/A35K. The smallest aircraft they deployed were the B772 and the current A330. Im not sure about PR and 5J but and some smaller players in the market such as Hong Kong Airlines
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:31 am

DTWLAX wrote:
BOM-DEL?


Historically, BOM-DEL route has had skewed demand across the day with max demand in mornings and evenings with holes in between. Morning 6-8 and evening 1630 to 2030 has max demand.
 
blandy62
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:47 am

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:39 am

prior to copid, lost of routes in Asia, just to name a few: HKG-MNL. HKG-BKK, sIN-JKT, SIN-KUL, SIN-BKK, SGN-HAN, GMP-CJU....
 
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eurotrader85
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:45 pm

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:44 am

MAD - BCN (the air bridge)
LON - DUB
LHR - BOS Obviously not at the same level the NYC leg for LHR, but again used widebodies to space out its 4-6 throughout the day rather than dump capacity on a couple of A380s.
LHR - ORD
CDG - JFK Again, obviously not the same capacity or pax as LON - JFK but same model of frequencies spread across the day. IIRC used to be about 6 a day.

Ultimately high pax short-haul routes are all going to take that structure unless it gets insanely demanded. It's long-haul where it gets more interesting. Going west in the 5-8 hours timeframe makes more sense for frequency. Think Europe to East coast/Mid-west US where there is pax demand but arriving and departing at different times of the day can work and potentially be desirable for the onward day. On longer stretches, e.g. West coast, the journey itself takes a lot more out of the pax and thus when the journey departs and arrives, within reason, is less of an issue, hence less frequency but bigger planes. Far-East Asia to Europe, or West coast US to Far-East Asia also follows this mantra as the natural takeoff time sits perfectly for late evening to arrive next morning. Then take going East. Always more of a jet lag and time difference issue for the pax, so it makes sense to depart at specific times only, rather than multiple through the day. There are exceptions to this of course. LHR-HKG used to be 5 a day on CX (who also did a LGW leg) fairly evenly spread through the day (there was an early morning, a lunchtime IIRC), but sure heavily weighted for the evening, then two a day with BA (one on a 380), plus a VS. CX used to say frequency was key for them on their 777s rather than investing in the 380 even though demand was there (cargo capacity is also more important to them but another story).
 
Flanker7
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:21 am

AMS-LHR 8 flights a day between KLM and BA
AMS-CDG 9 flights a day KLM/Air France
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:56 am

I think SIN-KUL would qualify here. At least, it would if it wouldn't be for COVID-19.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:31 pm

Southern California (SAN / SNA / LAX / BUR / ONT ) - Northern California (SJC / SFO / OAK / SMF).
 
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OA260
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:43 pm

Dublin-London Heathrow named busiest air route in Europe

Singapore-Kuala Lumpur is busiest in the world with 30,537 flights in a year, according to study

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/trave ... 4?mode=amp

Will be interesting to see figures for 2022/23
 
 
jplatts
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:48 pm

There were some WN nonstop routes that emphasized frequency over raw capacity prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, including BWI-BOS/MCO/FLL, DAL-AUS/HOU/SAT, DEN-LAS/PHX, HOU-MSY, LAS-LAX/PHX/RNO/SAN, OAK-LAX/BUR/SAN, and SMF-SAN. However, WN has reduced frequencies on most of these routes during the pandemic.
 
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csturdiv
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:33 am

Re: Besides JFK-LHR and domestic routes in Japan, which other high-demand routes emphasize frequency over raw capacity?

Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:34 am

Kent350787 wrote:
Outside Covid, SYD-MEL has departures each 15 mins in peak, alternating A332 and 738


The first time I flew to MEL from SYD, I found it funny that the gate agents did not use the QF flight numbers but the flight times.

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