Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
TriL1011Star wrote:The latest is Southwest canceling thousands of them, citing air traffic controller issues, despite the airports themselves saying they have no issues at all.
I am so sick of all these airlines cancelling all of these flights all the time. In the last 6 months, it's happened more than ever. Screw everyone. It doesn't matter people are stuck wherever they are. It doesn't matter that these people have kids they have to get home to. It doesn't matter that they are now going to miss appointments. It doesn't matter that they are going to end up sleeping on airport floors. Nope. the airlines have their money, so they can do what they want.
I'm tired of this, and so are millions of travelers that keep getting stranded. Is there NOTHING that can be done about this? Can we pass laws holding airlines responsible for passengers lodging every single time they cancel a flight? Why can they not put them on other airline like they used to? Start making airlines be responsible for putting their passengers up in hotels each and every time they do this, and see how fast it stops.
TriL1011Star wrote:The latest is Southwest canceling thousands of them, citing air traffic controller issues, despite the airports themselves saying they have no issues at all.
I am so sick of all these airlines cancelling all of these flights all the time. In the last 6 months, it's happened more than ever. Screw everyone. It doesn't matter people are stuck wherever they are. It doesn't matter that these people have kids they have to get home to. It doesn't matter that they are now going to miss appointments. It doesn't matter that they are going to end up sleeping on airport floors. Nope. the airlines have their money, so they can do what they want.
I'm tired of this, and so are millions of travelers that keep getting stranded. Is there NOTHING that can be done about this? Can we pass laws holding airlines responsible for passengers lodging every single time they cancel a flight? Why can they not put them on other airline like they used to? Start making airlines be responsible for putting their passengers up in hotels each and every time they do this, and see how fast it stops.
TriL1011Star wrote:The latest is Southwest canceling thousands of them, citing air traffic controller issues, despite the airports themselves saying they have no issues at all.
I am so sick of all these airlines cancelling all of these flights all the time. In the last 6 months, it's happened more than ever. Screw everyone. It doesn't matter people are stuck wherever they are. It doesn't matter that these people have kids they have to get home to. It doesn't matter that they are now going to miss appointments. It doesn't matter that they are going to end up sleeping on airport floors. Nope. the airlines have their money, so they can do what they want.
I'm tired of this, and so are millions of travelers that keep getting stranded. Is there NOTHING that can be done about this? Can we pass laws holding airlines responsible for passengers lodging every single time they cancel a flight? Why can they not put them on other airline like they used to? Start making airlines be responsible for putting their passengers up in hotels each and every time they do this, and see how fast it stops.
FlyHappy wrote:TriL1011Star wrote:The latest is Southwest canceling thousands of them, citing air traffic controller issues, despite the airports themselves saying they have no issues at all.
I am so sick of all these airlines cancelling all of these flights all the time. In the last 6 months, it's happened more than ever. Screw everyone. It doesn't matter people are stuck wherever they are. It doesn't matter that these people have kids they have to get home to. It doesn't matter that they are now going to miss appointments. It doesn't matter that they are going to end up sleeping on airport floors. Nope. the airlines have their money, so they can do what they want.
I'm tired of this, and so are millions of travelers that keep getting stranded. Is there NOTHING that can be done about this? Can we pass laws holding airlines responsible for passengers lodging every single time they cancel a flight? Why can they not put them on other airline like they used to? Start making airlines be responsible for putting their passengers up in hotels each and every time they do this, and see how fast it stops.
'Murica .
The only thing that can be done involves heavy, deep, overwhelming bi-partisan and public support for something so grand that it can overcome the most deep pocketed and entrenched lobby groups.
Basically, something along the lines of Constitutional Amendment.
Considering all the greater issues frozen in society, the practical answer is No; NOTHING will be done.
You'll need to drive, take a bus, a train, or always, always , always have a Plan B for every stinkin flight and never be surprised.
Cubsrule wrote:I’m not sure why this reality causes so much consternation. People who can’t afford to drop $500 or $1,000 on dealing with something unexpected probably should not be flying (or should be buying appropriate travel insurance). It’s hard for me to see why that is the government’s problem or to imagine what sort of government intervention would even change this effectively.
UALFAson wrote:I paid for Southwest to fly me from BNA to DCA on Friday, October 8, at 3:10 p.m. They did not provide that service. When I cancelled my ticket, they were offering to provide that service at 5 p.m. the following day--26 hours later. That is not what I agreed to. And thanks to contracts of carriage that are completely tilted in favor of the company (something else that should also be investigated), I am not entitled to a refund because my flight was technically not cancelled.
UALFAson wrote:Cubsrule wrote:I’m not sure why this reality causes so much consternation. People who can’t afford to drop $500 or $1,000 on dealing with something unexpected probably should not be flying (or should be buying appropriate travel insurance). It’s hard for me to see why that is the government’s problem or to imagine what sort of government intervention would even change this effectively.
I get the impression you work in law in some capacity, so you would know more than I, but what about a class-action lawsuit for fraud: fraud for selling a product (schedule) they cannot deliver. Fraud for taking customers' money and not delivering the product they paid for.
I paid for Southwest to fly me from BNA to DCA on Friday, October 8, at 3:10 p.m. They did not provide that service. When I cancelled my ticket, they were offering to provide that service at 5 p.m. the following day--26 hours later. That is not what I agreed to. And thanks to contracts of carriage that are completely tilted in favor of the company (something else that should also be investigated), I am not entitled to a refund because my flight was technically not cancelled.
I find your post socio-economically offensive. Why should I have to pay more money to solve a problem because a company failed to provide the service they delivered? If WN wants to pay $1,800 to book me on AA instead (which is what a comparable roundtrip flight on American was going for online at the time), they are welcome to, but that burden shouldn't be on me. So now only rich people should be able to fly? Ah, the good old days!
I can think of few industries where the balance of power is so lopsided between customer and company as it is in the airline industry. While I wouldn't have started a whole thread about the subject, I understand the OP's point.
TriL1011Star wrote:I am so sick of all these airlines cancelling all of these flights all the time.
Aaron747 wrote:Why are you absolving travelers of their end of responsibility? We are not in an economic or operational space where people can expect everything to go smoothly right now - if people expect otherwise, that's on them for not doing their homework. Anyone working in almost any industry is aware of these impacts in whatever operations they're exposed to.
DocLightning wrote:Aaron747 wrote:Why are you absolving travelers of their end of responsibility? We are not in an economic or operational space where people can expect everything to go smoothly right now - if people expect otherwise, that's on them for not doing their homework. Anyone working in almost any industry is aware of these impacts in whatever operations they're exposed to.
My view is that if an airline is selling me a ticket, I, as a consumer, should be able to make a reasonable assumption that the airline will be able to deliver the product I purchased.
I think it's unfair to think that I, as a consumer, should have to understand the vagaries of airline staffing and dispatching in order to purchase a ticket.
The fact that this issue seems to have specifically affected WN suggests to me that someone at WN screwed up.
As for the pandemic, we are over 18 months into it. If you're running a business, then you need to take that into account.
bfitzflyer wrote:Or accordingly pass legislation that reregulates them if they can't run a business properly.
ZKCIF wrote:Is the issue THAT BAD in the US?
I look through the flights that I have taken in my life since 2005
50 longhaul
10 North America (Mexico, Costa Rica)
70 South America
100 Europe
100 Asia
50 Australia and the Pacific
3 Africa (Morocco)
I had only TWO cancellations (by Royal Air Maroc and Sriwijaya)
which is less than 0.6 percent
In Asia or South America or Europe I find it natural that nothing gets cancelled. I have an impression that airlines there do their best NOT TO cancel. Am I just lucky or is it that much worse in 'Murica?
LH707330 wrote:From the outside, this looks like a classic case of selling more product than you can deliver, most likely someone in flight scheduling lining up more flights than could realistically be flown, and crew scheduling not being in the meeting or not piping up and saying it would not be doable. If I pay money and sign a contract with a vendor to do X for me, that vendor is on the hook for delivering. How exactly they get there is none of the customers' business.
UALFAson wrote:I paid for Southwest to fly me from BNA to DCA on Friday, October 8, at 3:10 p.m. They did not provide that service. When I cancelled my ticket, they were offering to provide that service at 5 p.m. the following day--26 hours later. That is not what I agreed to.
DocLightning wrote:My view is that if an airline is selling me a ticket, I, as a consumer, should be able to make a reasonable assumption that the airline will be able to deliver the product I purchased.
avier wrote:Airlines are simply loading flights into their system they have no intention on operating. They'll collect the fare, cancel the flight close to departure, then rebook the pax or give options of an itinerary which would extremely absurd; like reroute through a one or two-stop flight with long layovers, or rebook on some other day, or if lucky get a flight at any other random hour on the same day, which would be the best-case scenario of a plan B.
Cubsrule wrote:FlyHappy wrote:TriL1011Star wrote:The latest is Southwest canceling thousands of them, citing air traffic controller issues, despite the airports themselves saying they have no issues at all.
I am so sick of all these airlines cancelling all of these flights all the time. In the last 6 months, it's happened more than ever. Screw everyone. It doesn't matter people are stuck wherever they are. It doesn't matter that these people have kids they have to get home to. It doesn't matter that they are now going to miss appointments. It doesn't matter that they are going to end up sleeping on airport floors. Nope. the airlines have their money, so they can do what they want.
I'm tired of this, and so are millions of travelers that keep getting stranded. Is there NOTHING that can be done about this? Can we pass laws holding airlines responsible for passengers lodging every single time they cancel a flight? Why can they not put them on other airline like they used to? Start making airlines be responsible for putting their passengers up in hotels each and every time they do this, and see how fast it stops.
'Murica .
The only thing that can be done involves heavy, deep, overwhelming bi-partisan and public support for something so grand that it can overcome the most deep pocketed and entrenched lobby groups.
Basically, something along the lines of Constitutional Amendment.
Considering all the greater issues frozen in society, the practical answer is No; NOTHING will be done.
You'll need to drive, take a bus, a train, or always, always , always have a Plan B for every stinkin flight and never be surprised.
I’m not sure why this reality causes so much consternation. People who can’t afford to drop $500 or $1,000 on dealing with something unexpected probably should not be flying (or should be buying appropriate travel insurance). It’s hard for me to see why that is the government’s problem or to imagine what sort of government intervention would even change this effectively.
alo2yyz wrote:Cubsrule wrote:FlyHappy wrote:
'Murica .
The only thing that can be done involves heavy, deep, overwhelming bi-partisan and public support for something so grand that it can overcome the most deep pocketed and entrenched lobby groups.
Basically, something along the lines of Constitutional Amendment.
Considering all the greater issues frozen in society, the practical answer is No; NOTHING will be done.
You'll need to drive, take a bus, a train, or always, always , always have a Plan B for every stinkin flight and never be surprised.
I’m not sure why this reality causes so much consternation. People who can’t afford to drop $500 or $1,000 on dealing with something unexpected probably should not be flying (or should be buying appropriate travel insurance). It’s hard for me to see why that is the government’s problem or to imagine what sort of government intervention would even change this effectively.
Do you realize how insanely pretentious and privileged this sounds? Most Americans do not have an extra $500 or $1,000 to deal with flight cancellations. Should all those people simply never fly?
This sort of casual "why don't you peasants just have more money" attitude is of a feather with the attitude consumers see in the airlines. I wouldn't have made a full thread about it like OP, but airlines are hardly perfect.
example: WS has been, and continues, to sell non-stop YXE-USA flights. Anyone want to guess an airport that isn't on Canada's list of approved entry points right now? These are completely fictitious flights. They don't exist except as a way for WS to capture bookings. But the pax who take WS at its word that it will fly them from YXE are the ones at fault here? Please. Nor are the pax who are left stranded because (as another poster further down noted), the airline dropped the ball on crew scheduling.
And to the idea of "having alternate arrangements" - sure, if you're in something like the Acela or I-5 corridor. I went back and looked - roughly 1% of the flights I've taken could be driven in <14 hours. Alternate arrangements? Should I try dog sled, pony express, or Amtrak?