Anyone know why Lufthansa 418 Operating Frankfurt, Germany (EDDF) - Washington D.C (KIAD), US ? LH418 has (for as far back as i can see) been on an Airbus A330-300,,, But for some reason its being operated with an Airbus A340-300 right now 10-18-21. I was under the impression all A340's had been retired already. Especially since their A320/A321neo's could almost certainly make EDDF-KIAD, and of course their 747-8's, 787-8's, and Airbus A350-900's would have NO Problem at all making this flight and All of which would seem more "Efficient" Compared to going from an A330-300 to an A340-300.

Same deal for LH 400/401 FRA-JFK. The 340-300's are still alive and kicking as I flew this route on 9/26. Seemed to be decently refirbed and clean as a whistle, even the lavs all the way across. Flight over on the 8th was a 330, so some days one, some the other apparently. I think they pack a few more bodies into the 340.

Lufthansa is gonna earn a place in everyone's hearts, continuing to fly these quad-jet beauties around. A343s, A346s, B744s, and B748s give some of us new life if we're trying to fly one for the first time.

Boeing757rb211 wrote:

Anyone know why Lufthansa 418 Operating Frankfurt, Germany (EDDF) - Washington D.C (KIAD), US ? LH418 has (for as far back as i can see) been on an Airbus A330-300,,, But for some reason its being operated with an Airbus A340-300 right now 10-18-21. I was under the impression all A340's had been retired already. Especially since their A320/A321neo's could almost certainly make EDDF-KIAD, and of course their 747-8's, 787-8's, and Airbus A350-900's would have NO Problem at all making this flight and All of which would seem more "Efficient" Compared to going from an A330-300 to an A340-300.

I don't know for a fact on this flight, but in normal times LH does run A340s as subs for capacity reasons. I've had a 350 from MUC switch to a 346 day-of when they were managing loads during Oktoberfest and needed to move Y lift around. Here, one potential reason would be having an overbooked Y and underbooked C. I'd also see if any of UA's FRA-IAD on the same day were disrupted, resulting in rebookings to LH via the joint venture. Or it could just have been a 333 going tech with only a 343 as a spare. No need to switch crews, no loss of capacity, just switch it in and go.

Yes, they could run it on theoretically lower per-seat cost using a 747, but that would likely be far too much capacity. A 321 would likely be too small, especially in Y and for cargo. The 359 is a more efficient plane, but there might not have been one on short notice for a sub.

It's the same on the Frankfurt - Detroit Service. The 340 is running on Saturday at least from what I can tell and the 330 the rest of the 4 trips a week.

Grandforks12 wrote:

It's the same on the Frankfurt - Detroit Service. The 340 is running on Saturday at least from what I can tell and the 330 the rest of the 4 trips a week.

Aparrenty EDDF - KATL and KBOS also had Regular A330-300's replaced with A340-300's all on the same days. Seems kinda odd that SO many different LH; Frankfurt - U.S. Flights / Cites went from A333 to A343 all over the U.S. and all on the same dates.

Boeing757rb211 wrote:

Especially since their A320/A321neo's could almost certainly make EDDF-KIAD, and of course their 747-8's, 787-8's, and Airbus A350-900's would have NO Problem at all making this flight and All of which would seem more "Efficient" Compared to going from an A330-300 to an A340-300.

I don't recall LH intending the NEO to operate TATL. The 789 will likely replace 333/343 flying that the 359 doesn't pick up, but that's just an assumption.

-Rowen

YVR-FRA saw an alternating mix between the A330/A340 over most of the last year - one day would be the A330, a couple of days later the A340. Pretty much only A350 now. See what the winter schedule brings us.

Bless you LH for keeping the A340 in the skies just a little bit longer

res77W wrote:

Boeing757rb211 wrote:

Especially since their A320/A321neo's could almost certainly make EDDF-KIAD, and of course their 747-8's, 787-8's, and Airbus A350-900's would have NO Problem at all making this flight and All of which would seem more "Efficient" Compared to going from an A330-300 to an A340-300.

I don't recall LH intending the NEO to operate TATL. The 789 will likely replace 333/343 flying that the 359 doesn't pick up, but that's just an assumption.

-Rowen

And i wasn't saying that they were planning to operate any 320/321neo Transatlantic. Just that They probably, More Than Likely, Could Make the same flight EDDF-KIAD, That is Normally an A330-300 but had been Flown by an A340-300 on that specific day...

ACDC8 wrote:

YVR-FRA saw an alternating mix between the A330/A340 over most of the last year - one day would be the A330, a couple of days later the A340. Pretty much only A350 now. See what the winter schedule brings us.

Bless you LH for keeping the A340 in the skies just a little bit longer

Until permanently switching to the F-less 744 in 2014, YVR swapped between the 343 and 346. In January 2012 my dad flew YVR-FRA-ADD and vv on Lufthansa, the YVR-FRA segment was a 346 in both directions.

The A34x to YVR replaced the B742 c. early 2000s.

Lufthansa pretty freely swaps A340s and A330s on routes where loads, maintenance or whatever justifies it. Those aircraft actually have a common type rating, unlike the marketing Airbus tries to do with the rest of their airplanes, and pilots can switch between them freely - just like the 767 and 757 at other airlines. Given the complete and utter lack of value for used A340s of any flavor on the open market, and the fact that those airplanes are still just fine for the missions Lufthansa assigns them to, there is no reason for Lufthansa to not keep flying them until they either completely exhaust their life cycle or have more than enough replacement aircraft to justify an earlier retirement.

leftcoast8 wrote:

The A34x to YVR replaced the B742 c. early 2000s.

Sort of, the 343 was used during the winter schedule and the 742 during the summer schedule during the late 90s and early 00s. KLM did the same, using the MD11 during the summer schedule and the 767 during the winter schedule (and alternated with Martinair 767s for at least one winter schedule). BA went from the 742 during summer to the 767 in the winter and later from the 744 in the summer to the 742 in the winter.

IIRC, the LH A346 came along in the mid to late 2000s.

So many memories of those flights.

ACDC8 wrote:

Sort of, the 343 was used during the winter schedule and the 742 during the summer schedule during the late 90s and early 00s. KLM did the same, using the MD11 during the summer schedule and the 767 during the winter schedule (and alternated with Martinair 767s for at least one winter schedule). BA went from the 742 during summer to the 767 in the winter and later from the 744 in the summer to the 742 in the winter.

IIRC, the LH A346 came along in the mid to late 2000s.

So many memories of those flights.

I see, thank you for the correction. I think between 2007-2014 it was a daily 343 in winter and daily 346 in summer. I've also seen photos and timetables showing FRA-YYC-YVR using the DC-10-30, in the 80s. Do you know when Lufthansa first brought the 744 to YVR, and axed the 742? For some reason I thought YVR got 744s before 2014.

BA's service to YVR has been an absolute clusterfedge and difficult to follow. Originally it was:

• 1981: LHR-SEA-YVR-LHR triangle routes with a mix of B741 and B742. The Summer 1983 routing was BA87/88 (LHR-SEA-YVR-LHR), departing Heathrow on T/Th/Sa and returning W/F/M afternoons.
  
• c. 1986-87: Vancouver and Seattle are reduced to tag-ons as part of an LHR-SFO service (BA286/287, the number is still used today for the daily A380 to SFO). Winter 1988/89 schedule saw BA286/287 as LHR-YVR-SFO-LHR departing M/Th and returning to Heathrow T/Fr, LHR-SEA-SFO-YVR departing T/Sa and returning W/Su. Also a mix of B741s and B742s.
• I've been digging through Canadian newspapers and it seems there were major changes to BA's Pacific Northwest routes in 1988-89, but the information is conflicting. The only definitive thing I was able to find out was, BA started 3x nonstop LHR-YVR-LHR and 4x LHR-YVR-SEA-LHR service on June 3, 1989 using 747 Classics.

United snatched up the SEA-LHR slot when Pan Am collapsed, but scrapped the route in 1992. By at least 1996, both YVR and SEA got daily nonstops from LHR. YVR got the B744 in summer and B742 in winter, while SEA got the B763 year-round. I would be grateful if someone were able to fill in the gaps in this timeline.

Seattle's economic resurgence came relatively recently. Many Seattlites acutely remember how [crushing the Boeing Bust was](https://s.hdnux.com/photos/14/65/64/336 ... 20x920.jpg), triggered by the cancellation of the 2707 SST in the wake of the 1973 OPEC embargo against the US. But the clientele out of YVR gradually shifted lower-yielding tourist traffic (or VFR traffic connecting to India), and European travellers going on Alaskan cruises in the summer.

From the mid 2000s it was a daily Lo-J 744 (BA84/85), with summer adding an additional early-evening departure Monday to Friday (BA86/87) for 12/week summer frequencies. Lo-Js were switched to Mid-Js. Summer 2016 was going to be daily Mid-J 744 and daily 772 with Air Canada planning double daily 77W service, but BA eventually decided to free up a Terminal 3 slot and switch to a single daily A380 in summer. And that's how it stood until COVID-19 hit.

Both YVR and SEA had been out of LHR Terminal 4 since at least the 90s; YVR was moved to Terminal 1 in 2007, switched to T5 10 months later, and then moved to its final home of Terminal 3 in October 2015. It's not a very high-yielding, connection-heavy route.

Meanwhile, the traffic coming out of Seattle became more premium-heavy, especially since London was a huge tech hub and, before Emirates came to Seattle, had excellent connections to Bengaluru. This was reflected: 10-11 weekly 772s in winter, double daily in summer with one of the daily flights being 70J/86J 744s, and finally the 787-10. Even BA's 77Ws have made occasional visits to Sea-Tac. SEA was moved from Terminal 4 to Terminal 5 in October 2008, where it still operates to this day.

What some people who don't remember pre-2008 aviation may not realize is that the Bermuda II Agreement from 1978 was actually fairly restrictive in terms of bilaterals, despite the US and Canada's friendly relations with the UK. Some destinations could only be served from Gatwick instead of Heathrow; in particular, Wardair had lots of YVR-LGW service. The UK didn't have Open Skies with the US until 2008, and with Canada until 2010. Hence quirks like United's daily SEA-ORD-LHR (772) and Delta's daily SEA-ATL-LGW (763).

And don't even get me started on KLM's complicated YVR routings. It spanned almost the entire gamut of KLM's 80s/90s longhaul fleet from 747-300Ms to 747-400Ms, DC-10-30s, MD-11s, 763s and 333s, at points having stopovers in YYC or YEG before switching to nonstop YVR service. Even in the last 10 years KLM has shuffled YVR equipment: 333s, 789s, 772s, I think KLM even flew the 77W to YVR for a few summers.

Planning a trip MAN-BKK and return for Nov/Dec and whilst looking at flight options the LH option is tempting me with an A343 on FRA-BKK and return.although it's not the cheapest option and SWMBO prefers me choosing the cheaper option with QR, EK or EY

leftcoast8 wrote:

I see, thank you for the correction. I think between 2007-2014 it was a daily 343 in winter and daily 346 in summer. I've also seen photos and timetables showing FRA-YYC-YVR using the DC-10-30, in the 80s. Do you know when Lufthansa first brought the 744 to YVR, and axed the 742? For some reason I thought YVR got 744s before 2014.

BA's service to YVR has been an absolute clusterfedge and difficult to follow. Originally it was:

• 1981: LHR-SEA-YVR-LHR triangle routes with a mix of B741 and B742. The Summer 1983 routing was BA87/88 (LHR-SEA-YVR-LHR), departing Heathrow on T/Th/Sa and returning W/F/M afternoons.
  
• c. 1986-87: Vancouver and Seattle are reduced to tag-ons as part of an LHR-SFO service (BA286/287, the number is still used today for the daily A380 to SFO). Winter 1988/89 schedule saw BA286/287 as LHR-YVR-SFO-LHR departing M/Th and returning to Heathrow T/Fr, LHR-SEA-SFO-YVR departing T/Sa and returning W/Su. Also a mix of B741s and B742s.
• I've been digging through Canadian newspapers and it seems there were major changes to BA's Pacific Northwest routes in 1988-89, but the information is conflicting. The only definitive thing I was able to find out was, BA started 3x nonstop LHR-YVR-LHR and 4x LHR-YVR-SEA-LHR service on June 3, 1989 using 747 Classics.

United snatched up the SEA-LHR slot when Pan Am collapsed, but scrapped the route in 1992. By at least 1996, both YVR and SEA got daily nonstops from LHR. YVR got the B744 in summer and B742 in winter, while SEA got the B763 year-round. I would be grateful if someone were able to fill in the gaps in this timeline.

Seattle's economic resurgence came relatively recently. Many Seattlites acutely remember how [crushing the Boeing Bust was](https://s.hdnux.com/photos/14/65/64/336 ... 20x920.jpg), triggered by the cancellation of the 2707 SST in the wake of the 1973 OPEC embargo against the US. But the clientele out of YVR gradually shifted lower-yielding tourist traffic (or VFR traffic connecting to India), and European travellers going on Alaskan cruises in the summer.

From the mid 2000s it was a daily Lo-J 744 (BA84/85), with summer adding an additional early-evening departure Monday to Friday (BA86/87) for 12/week summer frequencies. Lo-Js were switched to Mid-Js. Summer 2016 was going to be daily Mid-J 744 and daily 772 with Air Canada planning double daily 77W service, but BA eventually decided to free up a Terminal 3 slot and switch to a single daily A380 in summer. And that's how it stood until COVID-19 hit.

Both YVR and SEA had been out of LHR Terminal 4 since at least the 90s; YVR was moved to Terminal 1 in 2007, switched to T5 10 months later, and then moved to its final home of Terminal 3 in October 2015. It's not a very high-yielding, connection-heavy route.

Meanwhile, the traffic coming out of Seattle became more premium-heavy, especially since London was a huge tech hub and, before Emirates came to Seattle, had excellent connections to Bengaluru. This was reflected: 10-11 weekly 772s in winter, double daily in summer with one of the daily flights being 70J/86J 744s, and finally the 787-10. Even BA's 77Ws have made occasional visits to Sea-Tac. SEA was moved from Terminal 4 to Terminal 5 in October 2008, where it still operates to this day.

What some people who don't remember pre-2008 aviation may not realize is that the Bermuda II Agreement from 1978 was actually fairly restrictive in terms of bilaterals, despite the US and Canada's friendly relations with the UK. Some destinations could only be served from Gatwick instead of Heathrow; in particular, Wardair had lots of YVR-LGW service. The UK didn't have Open Skies with the US until 2008, and with Canada until 2010. Hence quirks like United's daily SEA-ORD-LHR (772) and Delta's daily SEA-ATL-LGW (763).

And don't even get me started on KLM's complicated YVR routings. It spanned almost the entire gamut of KLM's 80s/90s longhaul fleet from 747-300Ms to 747-400Ms, DC-10-30s, MD-11s, 763s and 333s, at points having stopovers in YYC or YEG before switching to nonstop YVR service. Even in the last 10 years KLM has shuffled YVR equipment: 333s, 789s, 772s, I think KLM even flew the 77W to YVR for a few summers.

Ah yes, KLM's YVR routings - was always interesting, one day it would be AMS-YVR-YYC-AMS and the next day it would be AMS-YYC-YVR-AMS them the next day it would be direct between YVR and AMS and then continue that throughout the week. When KLM brought in the MD11 to YVR back in the summer of 96, it was a direct flight and stayed that way more or less since, YYC got their own flight. This last year has been a mix of A330s and B777s with maybe the odd B787 in there, but mostly A330. I used to do KLM 681/682 a lot, managed to log every single MD11 frame KLM had on that route.

CP did the same with the YVR-LHR flights, they'd make a stop over in YYC to pick up more pax. The stupid thing about that, is even though the flight left from the International gates at the time, the YVR-YYC was a domestic flight and they sold domestic tickets on the flight, so those pax flying through to LHR could not buy any duty free in YVR and weren't allowed off the plane in YYC. Man, lots of ticked off pax on those flights.

As far as BA goes, we've been back to having the 2 flights a day (84/85/86/87) with the B772 since spring, nice to see that thats slowly going back to somewhat normal.

I hated T4, not a very friendly airplane viewing terminal, but at least you got to see the Concorde up close. I remember when BA 84/85 was using T1, but am glad that they're operating out of T5.

With LH, I can't remember when they used the A346 on the YVR-FRA flights, but I do remember them being used on the YVR-MUC flights.

TK finally started service to YVR this year with a weekly mix of B777 and B787s.

ACDC8 wrote:

CP did the same with the YVR-LHR flights, they'd make a stop over in YYC to pick up more pax. The stupid thing about that, is even though the flight left from the International gates at the time, the YVR-YYC was a domestic flight and they sold domestic tickets on the flight, so those pax flying through to LHR could not buy any duty free in YVR and weren't allowed off the plane in YYC. Man, lots of ticked off pax on those flights.

As far as BA goes, we've been back to having the 2 flights a day (84/85/86/87) with the B772 since spring, nice to see that thats slowly going back to somewhat normal.

The opposite happened with BA's triangle flights. They were not allowed cabotage rights on the YVR-SEA/SEA-YVR segments. United had triple daily 727-200 service while Pacific Western (acquired by CP in 1987) had daily a 737-200 flight. Air Canada didn't start the route until acquiring Air BC, the commuter airline owned by Vancouver business magnate Jim Pattison, in the 1990s. (Air BC started the route in 1986 with Dash-8s.)

I don't think the explosion in YVR-SEA frequency happened until after Expo '86.

ACDC8 wrote:

TK finally started service to YVR this year with a weekly mix of B777 and B787s.

Originally Transport Canada offered Turkey 3x daily to YVR and they accepted. 3 daily 787-9 was the plan until COVID-19 scuttled everything. I wonder what traffic TK was trying to get from YVR. Connecting traffic to the Middle East and Iran (Vancouver has a large Iranian community), or O&D to Turkey?