I heard that US flight attendants are not obligated to clean toilets inflight. Is that true?

So what happen if a toilet gets extremely dirty? Block it?

SQ, CX flight attendants clean toilets regularly inflight

I remember just before covid, I was on a LH A380 from FRA to LAX. It was a packed flight in economy class so by the time we reached Montana one of the toilets was disgusting and dirty. We are talking about water on the floor (I hope it was water), paper towels all over and so on. At some point the stewardess blocked that toilet and went to get the mop and clean it. Thank God she did it as merely blocking it would have made other toilets as filthy ... even faster.

Water on the deck is never water…

Actually on certain flights to certain destinations, one of the lavs is blocked for crew use only because we expect the lavs to get trashed by the passengers who have never been on a plane before and don’t know how to use the lavatory facilities.

The only airline that I am aware of is JetBlue where the flight crew and cabin crew are expected to tidy up the cabin in between flights but not the lav.

UAUA wrote:

SQ, CX flight attendants clean toilets regularly inflight

Qatar Airways crew also clean the toilets regularly during the flight. They are usually always spotless (in business class at least). It's something I always noticed when flying with them.

I think its safe to assume that all asian carriers regularly clean the lavatory (even in economy class)


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"My" European airline also lets cabin crew clean them. Whether it is done satisfactorily is of course depending on the work ethic of the cabin member in question.

Qantas cleaned the bathrooms on their A380 pretty frequently on my flights too and from London from Sydney. There was nothing undesirable about them at the end of the haul, even though it was in economy. I remember flying Virgin Australia to America on their 777 and the bathrooms were disgusting four hours in and constantly got worse throughout the flight.

LoganTheBogan wrote:

Qantas cleaned the bathrooms on their A380 pretty frequently on my flights too and from London from Sydney. There was nothing undesirable about them at the end of the haul, even though it was in economy. I remember flying Virgin Australia to America on their 777 and the bathrooms were disgusting four hours in and constantly got worse throughout the flight.

NZ do too pretty regularly.

Back when I used to fly at QF on long haul overnight flights the crew not on rest were expected to do a water run, and toilet check every 20-30 mins in economy in their zone. Was a bit excessive so was more like 45-60mins. Special pacs with toilet cleaning products were kept on board. Not to be confused with biohazard cleaning packs for medical or other bodily fluids that were more of an emergency field.

Interestingly enough even prior to covid in addition to the biohazard kit, physicians kit, a pandemic kit was also kept on board with gloves and whatnot for a communicable disease outbreak onboard.

smi0006 wrote:

LoganTheBogan wrote:

Qantas cleaned the bathrooms on their A380 pretty frequently on my flights too and from London from Sydney. There was nothing undesirable about them at the end of the haul, even though it was in economy. I remember flying Virgin Australia to America on their 777 and the bathrooms were disgusting four hours in and constantly got worse throughout the flight.

NZ do too pretty regularly.

Back when I used to fly at QF on long haul overnight flights the crew not on rest were expected to do a water run, and toilet check every 20-30 mins in economy in their zone. Was a bit excessive so was more like 45-60mins. Special pacs with toilet cleaning products were kept on board. Not to be confused with biohazard cleaning packs for medical or other bodily fluids that were more of an emergency field.

Interestingly enough even prior to covid in addition to the biohazard kit, physicians kit, a pandemic kit was also kept on board with gloves and whatnot for a communicable disease outbreak onboard.

Yes I still have to check those kits are in date on board aircraft! Very creepy and unnerving scenario when you think about it.

Never.

Cleaners do it on the ground.

Sometimes I, as the captain, or the F1 (purser) will do it in a pinch. But I would never ask a regular flight attendant to do it… It’s not their job

I’ll tidy it… I won’t clean it…

Current Delta (non-union) flight attendant announcement: “Lavatories are regularly refreshed with Lysol products. If you notice an untidy lavatory, please let a flight attendant know.” Presumably that means they are supposed to clean them.

jfklganyc wrote:

Never.

Cleaners do it on the ground.

Sometimes I, as the captain, or the F1 (purser) will do it in a pinch. But I would never ask a regular flight attendant to do it… It’s not their job

And what happens when you have a long-haul flight? Also, their job is defined by the contract they signed with their employer. If it states that they need to clean the lavatories then it's part of their job.

In the US, a fair amount of FA's wipe the mirror and the sink top down. Some FA's will also clean the floor when wet. Few will clean the toilet, primary reason being that cleaning is not part of their job description. Yes the lavs do occasionally get blocked if conditions get too bad. As to the US vs Asian SQ, CX crews comparison, well the working cultures are quite far apart and employee expectations are very different not only in regards to FA's but many other jobs and industries as well.

Blerg wrote:

And what happens when you have a long-haul flight? Also, their job is defined by the contract they signed with their employer. If it states that they need to clean the lavatories then it's part of their job.

Most U.S. carriers FAs have union representation (Delta being the prominent exception), and cleaving lavs isn't in the contract. FAs in some countries may not actively negotiate work rules, but in the U.S., they do.

The lavs in Y on an EK ULH roundtrip (IAH-DXB and back) last November were cleaned every few hours by FAs.

DLASFlyer wrote:

Current Delta (non-union) flight attendant announcement: “Lavatories are regularly refreshed with Lysol products. If you notice an untidy lavatory, please let a flight attendant know.” Presumably that means they are supposed to clean them.

Pre-Covid, Delta already handed out kits to at least their pursers or flight leaders (not sure it was to all flight attendants) to help “refresh” the lav. I know many of them did make sure that at least the premium cabin lavs were somewhat tidy. Of course this being the US, a lot of it was up to the individual flight attendant in terms of whether they actually did it or not.

jfklganyc wrote:

Never.

Cleaners do it on the ground.

Sometimes I, as the captain, or the F1 (purser) will do it in a pinch. But I would never ask a regular flight attendant to do it… It’s not their job

You , as the captain, sometimes clean the lav??? I'll have to see that to believe it. Do you also blue turn?

What do people mean by cleaning the lav by the way? Pick up papers off the ground and put them in the trash , maybe. Making sure the trash chute is closed for safety reasons, sure. Making sure it does not run out of toilet paper or paper towels sure too.

But mop or wipe down the commode? No way. I don't think any domestic U.S. airlines does more than what i've typed above. Ground crews do that, and that includes your gate agents at small stations.

Blerg wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Never.

Cleaners do it on the ground.

Sometimes I, as the captain, or the F1 (purser) will do it in a pinch. But I would never ask a regular flight attendant to do it… It’s not their job

And what happens when you have a long-haul flight? Also, their job is defined by the contract they signed with their employer. If it states that they need to clean the lavatories then it's part of their job.

Luckily at his airline its not part of their job (flight or FAs) to clean the toilets. Light tidying only.

Sounds largely contractual. And that’s good clarity wise. The bizarre part is the people most critical of a dirty lav I’m almost certain are the ones that won’t clean the mess they just made.

I never understand how public facilities get to the state they end up in. It’s really not hard to use the bathroom without making a mess anywhere. I would always presume lav maintenance inflight would be a cabin crew responsibility, if it’s specified for crew in certain carriers that it’s not their job then good for them. If I was a crew member I would want to present my bathrooms in a good state for my passengers, as that’s what I expect as a pax, especially on a long haul. Don’t think anyone thinks it’s a glamorous or pleasurable task but provide me with the right equipment and I’ll do it.

I wouldn't want to be dealing with biohazards unless I was properly protected, gloves, disinfectant & so on.

CobaltScar wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Never.

Cleaners do it on the ground.

Sometimes I, as the captain, or the F1 (purser) will do it in a pinch. But I would never ask a regular flight attendant to do it… It’s not their job

You , as the captain, sometimes clean the lav??? I'll have to see that to believe it. Do you also blue turn?

What do people mean by cleaning the lav by the way? Pick up papers off the ground and put them in the trash , maybe. Making sure the trash chute is closed for safety reasons, sure. Making sure it does not run out of toilet paper or paper towels sure too.

But mop or wipe down the commode? No way. I don't think any domestic U.S. airlines does more than what i've typed above. Ground crews do that, and that includes your gate agents at small stations.

You seem not to have believed it. But I believe it. It is a Captain's job and perhaps a Purser's sense of responsibility to keep the aircraft safe and functional "in a pinch." That might include becoming an electrician, a cleaner, a police officer.

Delta f/a are required to regularly refresh labs during the flight, including floors, touch surfaces, etc….tools and Lysol supplies are provided. A lav is only locked off in extreme situations.

jfklganyc wrote:

Never.

Cleaners do it on the ground.

Sometimes I, as the captain, or the F1 (purser) will do it in a pinch. But I would never ask a regular flight attendant to do it… It’s not their job

wait, you - the captain of the airplane - are taking breaks to clean the lav?

As a (real) airline pilot I just don’t believe it. Either you’re making up your job or making up a story for the internet.

FA’s the same people that serve my food also clean the lav ? How nice someone should make list so I know who not to fly!!

LCDFlight wrote:

CobaltScar wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

Never.

Cleaners do it on the ground.

Sometimes I, as the captain, or the F1 (purser) will do it in a pinch. But I would never ask a regular flight attendant to do it… It’s not their job

You , as the captain, sometimes clean the lav??? I'll have to see that to believe it. Do you also blue turn?

What do people mean by cleaning the lav by the way? Pick up papers off the ground and put them in the trash , maybe. Making sure the trash chute is closed for safety reasons, sure. Making sure it does not run out of toilet paper or paper towels sure too.

But mop or wipe down the commode? No way. I don't think any domestic U.S. airlines does more than what i've typed above. Ground crews do that, and that includes your gate agents at small stations.

You seem not to have believed it. But I believe it. It is a Captain's job and perhaps a Purser's sense of responsibility to keep the aircraft safe and functional "in a pinch." That might include becoming an electrician, a cleaner, a police officer.

I’m a leader and three things make a leader important:

1. In a bad situation, a leader has to step up and lead

2. Never ask somebody else to do what you wouldn’t do

3. Set a tone and set an example

So you’re damn straight I will demand a mop and cleaning fluid if I see something unacceptable in my aircraft…that outsourced minimum-wage employees refused to address

jfklganyc wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

CobaltScar wrote:

You , as the captain, sometimes clean the lav??? I'll have to see that to believe it. Do you also blue turn?

What do people mean by cleaning the lav by the way? Pick up papers off the ground and put them in the trash , maybe. Making sure the trash chute is closed for safety reasons, sure. Making sure it does not run out of toilet paper or paper towels sure too.

But mop or wipe down the commode? No way. I don't think any domestic U.S. airlines does more than what i've typed above. Ground crews do that, and that includes your gate agents at small stations.

You seem not to have believed it. But I believe it. It is a Captain's job and perhaps a Purser's sense of responsibility to keep the aircraft safe and functional "in a pinch." That might include becoming an electrician, a cleaner, a police officer.

I’m a leader and three things make a leader important:

1. In a bad situation, a leader has to step up and lead

2. Never ask somebody else to do what you wouldn’t do

3. Set a tone and set an example

So you’re damn straight I will demand a mop and cleaning fluid if I see something unacceptable in my aircraft…that outsourced minimum-wage employees refused to address

A mop? Ok then you must mean on the ground. Then you better just hold the aircraft and call the cleaners back on. And as you must know at most bluecities its gate agents cleaning, not outsourced employees.

jfklganyc wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

CobaltScar wrote:

You , as the captain, sometimes clean the lav??? I'll have to see that to believe it. Do you also blue turn?

What do people mean by cleaning the lav by the way? Pick up papers off the ground and put them in the trash , maybe. Making sure the trash chute is closed for safety reasons, sure. Making sure it does not run out of toilet paper or paper towels sure too.

But mop or wipe down the commode? No way. I don't think any domestic U.S. airlines does more than what i've typed above. Ground crews do that, and that includes your gate agents at small stations.

You seem not to have believed it. But I believe it. It is a Captain's job and perhaps a Purser's sense of responsibility to keep the aircraft safe and functional "in a pinch." That might include becoming an electrician, a cleaner, a police officer.

I’m a leader and three things make a leader important:

1. In a bad situation, a leader has to step up and lead

2. Never ask somebody else to do what you wouldn’t do

3. Set a tone and set an example

So you’re damn straight I will demand a mop and cleaning fluid if I see something unacceptable in my aircraft…that outsourced minimum-wage employees refused to address

Those all sound like nice things, but that’s not how things operate. This isn’t coming from a “professional pride” perspective either… companies have contracts to address cleanliness. If you’re somewhere you’re asking for a mop that means you’re on the ground. Again, this is a made up story people.

Lately on United the "welcome onboard" announcement the FAs make has included "we check the lavatories frequently but if you find that one needs attention please let us know."

CobaltScar wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

You seem not to have believed it. But I believe it. It is a Captain's job and perhaps a Purser's sense of responsibility to keep the aircraft safe and functional "in a pinch." That might include becoming an electrician, a cleaner, a police officer.

I’m a leader and three things make a leader important:

1. In a bad situation, a leader has to step up and lead

2. Never ask somebody else to do what you wouldn’t do

3. Set a tone and set an example

So you’re damn straight I will demand a mop and cleaning fluid if I see something unacceptable in my aircraft…that outsourced minimum-wage employees refused to address

A mop? Ok then you must mean on the ground. Then you better just hold the aircraft and call the cleaners back on. And as you must know at most bluecities its gate agents cleaning, not outsourced employees.

Ha sorry to type the same thing right below ya! You’re dead on.

adamblang wrote:

Lately on United the "welcome onboard" announcement the FAs make has included "we check the lavatories frequently but if you find that one needs attention please let us know."

Oh no... according to some posters here, that information about United, Delta and JetBlue crews taking care of the aircraft when needed is "fake."

jfklganyc wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

CobaltScar wrote:

You , as the captain, sometimes clean the lav??? I'll have to see that to believe it. Do you also blue turn?

What do people mean by cleaning the lav by the way? Pick up papers off the ground and put them in the trash , maybe. Making sure the trash chute is closed for safety reasons, sure. Making sure it does not run out of toilet paper or paper towels sure too.

But mop or wipe down the commode? No way. I don't think any domestic U.S. airlines does more than what i've typed above. Ground crews do that, and that includes your gate agents at small stations.

You seem not to have believed it. But I believe it. It is a Captain's job and perhaps a Purser's sense of responsibility to keep the aircraft safe and functional "in a pinch." That might include becoming an electrician, a cleaner, a police officer.

I’m a leader and three things make a leader important:

1. In a bad situation, a leader has to step up and lead

2. Never ask somebody else to do what you wouldn’t do

3. Set a tone and set an example

So you’re damn straight I will demand a mop and cleaning fluid if I see something unacceptable in my aircraft…that outsourced minimum-wage employees refused to address

This! Spot on!

I am not an airline pilot, just a lowly GA pilot. But I am an executive and this was my attitude towards leadership as well. But it wouldn’t surprise me if most of the airline captains out there don’t match your attitude as I know most of the executives out there didn’t match mine. You’re a good one jfklganyc.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

And what happens when you have a long-haul flight? Also, their job is defined by the contract they signed with their employer. If it states that they need to clean the lavatories then it's part of their job.

Most U.S. carriers FAs have union representation (Delta being the prominent exception), and cleaving lavs isn't in the contract. FAs in some countries may not actively negotiate work rules, but in the U.S., they do.

I live in Asia and overall I think the US unions are nuts and try to make themselves irrelevant. That said, my only experience is with the UAW and they are among the worst of the worst. Good example, we (coming from Asia but working for a GM subsidiary) were not allowed to take photographs at the Detroit motor show as that could only be done by a UAW approved photographer. That was even if the photos were for personal use only. We also had at one time very high grass around our US office as at the only UAW approved grass cutter was on medical leave for 5 months and the other gardeners were not allowed by the UAW to cut the grass and the contract forbade them to hire a contractor while the lawn mower man was on medical leave. Absolutely nuts (from an Asian perspective).

The contract in Asia would state "serve the passengers as needed to ensure they have as satisfactory flight and ensure safety" and not much more. Or maybe it would the defined as "Follow the guidelines of the FA handbook as defined by the company". But the contracts definitely would not micromanage tasks. I write Job Definitions for hiring of staff, but the contract they sign does not refer to a specific job definition. They receive the JD to tell them what the expectation is, but not is not in the contract they sign and I can change the JD if I renew a contract (for those not on permanent employment), if they get promoted or if they change project/role.

a320fan wrote:

I never understand how public facilities get to the state they end up in. It’s really not hard to use the bathroom without making a mess anywhere. I would always presume lav maintenance inflight would be a cabin crew responsibility, if it’s specified for crew in certain carriers that it’s not their job then good for them. If I was a crew member I would want to present my bathrooms in a good state for my passengers, as that’s what I expect as a pax, especially on a long haul. Don’t think anyone thinks it’s a glamorous or pleasurable task but provide me with the right equipment and I’ll do it.

The secret? Men should sit for #1. I started doing it 15 years ago and my wife loves me for it. Our boys both were trained to do the same, and our bathrooms are all free of urine odor (unless we have company); we only have to clean them every 2-3 weeks when we notice hard water stains in the toilet bowls.

Ill tidy a loo during the regular security/safety checks but I wont “clean” a loo, after all I am also a food handler and lets face it, unless provided with appropriate cleaning attire I dont think most of my customers would appreciate cross contamination!

Working for a major US airline, I will tell you that US FA's do not clean toilets. That is usually handled by a hazmat team or maintenance.

There is an epic thread on the German frequent flyer forum about THAT toilet blocked for crew use in the business class section of Lufthansa's Airbus A350s. The matter has been so contentious that it has been brought to the ettention of management pretty high up in the pecking order----

Many US-based F/As would find the expectation/assertion that they should clean/tidy/perform “light cleaning” of the lavatory insulting. Much like many are offended when pax offer cash tips onboard. So much of the job is associated with safety compliance with onboard service largely de-emphasized over last quarter century (less so perhaps for B6, DL, and WN)

I can only imagine AFA International President Sara Nelson giving a fiery interview or social media post blasting any expectation or inclination onboard crews as safety professionals and aviations first responders should clean lavs to, you know, provide a better onboard experience for their passengers.

As a practical matter, for organized carriers duties are governed by the collective bargaining agreements and onboard service procedures. Crews have no incentive performing additional duties that they will not be paid for and perhaps a disincentive namely being met with hostility by their flying partners who feel their performance of additional duties makes them look deficient.

filejw wrote:

FA’s the same people that serve my food also clean the lav ? How nice someone should make list so I know who not to fly!!

Hyperbolic red herring. You sure you aren’t an AFA MEC member? Lol.

Most restaurants, clubs, hotels and hospitality establishments cross utilize employees who regularly perform cleaning duties. Going to be a pretty extensive list of places for you to not go.

Do you tidy your home and guest bathroom before having guests over for dinner? Same concept.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

And what happens when you have a long-haul flight? Also, their job is defined by the contract they signed with their employer. If it states that they need to clean the lavatories then it's part of their job.

Most U.S. carriers FAs have union representation (Delta being the prominent exception), and cleaving lavs isn't in the contract. FAs in some countries may not actively negotiate work rules, but in the U.S., they do.

I have been on Air Canada flights where the FA go in a clean up on the the ultra-long-haul flights. They are also unionized. In most cases countries like the Canada and Australia have more union friendly regulations than the US. So I don't think that has anything to do with it.

On a 10-14 hour flight if no one is checking up on the lavs I think your going to have major problems. None of these airlines are doing midway stops to bring ground crew on to clean lavs.

Long haul cabin crew are required to clean the lavatories at the majority of the airlines around the world . When we talk about short haul it is a completely different scenario . I know that some low cost companies and some crew con regional jets are required to clean it up but when we talk about mainline you will hardly see a cabin crew doing anything related to clean the plane simple because every single base the plane lands the cleaning crew comes on board and do their job . At the airlines I works for it's not part of the duties of a A32F cabin crew to clean the toilets but if you get promoted to long haul(777) you will certainly be in charge of cleaning the toilets ....

Collective Bargaining Agreements and Job Descriptions aside, it is a matter of necessity, the longer the flight, the more attention has to be paid to the lavs. A little turbulence at the wrong moment can be a problem. I think you can count on one hand the number of flights that have made an unscheduled stop to clean the lavs on the ground as that is an extreme and expensive solution.

casperCA wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

And what happens when you have a long-haul flight? Also, their job is defined by the contract they signed with their employer. If it states that they need to clean the lavatories then it's part of their job.

Most U.S. carriers FAs have union representation (Delta being the prominent exception), and cleaving lavs isn't in the contract. FAs in some countries may not actively negotiate work rules, but in the U.S., they do.

I have been on Air Canada flights where the FA go in a clean up on the the ultra-long-haul flights. They are also unionized. In most cases countries like the Canada and Australia have more union friendly regulations than the US. So I don't think that has anything to do with it.

Sure it does. Let AA or UA try to get toilet and floor cleaning (not just replacing paper products) added as an FA duty and watch the poop-storm. U.S. FAs will strongly reject being treated as janitors. It's not a matter of a union-friendly environment: it's the members of the union through their representation deciding what is or is not an acceptable duty and compensation.

I was on a WN flight years ago between ALB and LAS and I was seated at the bulkhead. I saw the FA go into the lavatory multiple times with this disinfectant spray and spray/wipe down the vanity area and mirror. I'm assuming she likely did the toilet as well as it remained spotless during the flight, which I thought was an amazing feat considering the flight was full and WN only has two lavatories on their 73G.

I have a friend who is a Cantonese LOD for AA and she regularly works (well worked, now because of COVID) the DFW-HKG sector. She told me (on numerous occasions) how she would take it upon herself to wipe down the vanity area, mirror, and toilet seat in flight, as well as pick up any paper towels/spills/toilet paper that was on the floor. The reactions she would get from her fellow colleagues were all over the place...some view her as bizarre and strange for cleaning up the lav, while others would be downright hostile towards her (as in "I hope you don't expect me to clean up the lav as well!").

Frankly I don't really take an issue with US FAs not cleaning lavs domestically. I get that it isn't part of their contract and collective bargaining agreement. I'm a clean freak (yet not a germaphobe) and take no issue picking up toilet paper/trash on the lavatory floor and putting it in the trash bin, nor do I have issue wiping down the vanity basin. I've seen other pax do the same.

However, on ultra-longhaul sectors, I view a clean bathroom as a hygiene matter, and thus a safety concern. I'm not expecting FAs to get on their hands and knees and start scrubbing the lavatory floor, but I don't see why they can't don gloves and grab Lysol wipes and wipe the sink basin, vanity, and toilet seat down. It would take less than 90 seconds. For those saying FAs shouldn't clean lavs because they also serve food, who do you think cleans the restrooms at restaurants?

I always thought that public toilets (be it in an aircraft or on the ground) are often subject to the broken window theory. If a lavatory on a plane looks nasty when you enter it, you are probably less inclined to take care of it and clean up after yourself.

CobaltScar wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

You seem not to have believed it. But I believe it. It is a Captain's job and perhaps a Purser's sense of responsibility to keep the aircraft safe and functional "in a pinch." That might include becoming an electrician, a cleaner, a police officer.

I’m a leader and three things make a leader important:

1. In a bad situation, a leader has to step up and lead

2. Never ask somebody else to do what you wouldn’t do

3. Set a tone and set an example

So you’re damn straight I will demand a mop and cleaning fluid if I see something unacceptable in my aircraft…that outsourced minimum-wage employees refused to address

A mop? Ok then you must mean on the ground. Then you better just hold the aircraft and call the cleaners back on. And as you must know at most bluecities its gate agents cleaning, not outsourced employees.

Most blue cities are outsourced…even gate agents

What do you think this is? 2010?

Why do we never see this conversation started. If you use the airplane’s convenience. Please do not leave it looking like a tsunami just passed by. Maybe that would solve the issue

casperCA wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

And what happens when you have a long-haul flight? Also, their job is defined by the contract they signed with their employer. If it states that they need to clean the lavatories then it's part of their job.

Most U.S. carriers FAs have union representation (Delta being the prominent exception), and cleaving lavs isn't in the contract. FAs in some countries may not actively negotiate work rules, but in the U.S., they do.

I have been on Air Canada flights where the FA go in a clean up on the the ultra-long-haul flights. They are also unionized. In most cases countries like the Canada and Australia have more union friendly regulations than the US. So I don't think that has anything to do with it.

On a 10-14 hour flight if no one is checking up on the lavs I think your going to have major problems. None of these airlines are doing midway stops to bring ground crew on to clean lavs.

Understood and agreed, but I think it also speaks to culture and the priorities of management and executive leadership at US carriers. Carriers based in countries with higher union penetration also have members of management among crew ranks who oversee, direct and supervise during the flight.

I’m certainly not justifying it and completely agree, but much like a pax onboard an AC or LH long or short haul flight who rings their call button will promptly be greeted with “how may I assist?”, on AA or UA it is likely to go ignored or be met with “what is the emergency” and feeling of imposition, this is just the way things are at US carriers and is unlikely to change.

Surely the addition of cleaning duties could be added to the CBAs through negotiations but I don’t think it’s a priority for management.

MIflyer12 wrote:

casperCA wrote:

MIflyer12 wrote:

Most U.S. carriers FAs have union representation (Delta being the prominent exception), and cleaving lavs isn't in the contract. FAs in some countries may not actively negotiate work rules, but in the U.S., they do.

I have been on Air Canada flights where the FA go in a clean up on the the ultra-long-haul flights. They are also unionized. In most cases countries like the Canada and Australia have more union friendly regulations than the US. So I don't think that has anything to do with it.

Sure it does. Let AA or UA try to get toilet and floor cleaning (not just replacing paper products) added as an FA duty and watch the poop-storm. U.S. FAs will strongly reject being treated as janitors. It's not a matter of a union-friendly environment: it's the members of the union through their representation deciding what is or is not an acceptable duty and compensation.

If that is the case then AA and UA do not have a reasonable process in place to maintain hygiene when doing ultra long haul and perhaps they just should not take on such routes. Those passengers can fly the other partner airlines.