After taking a very routine domestic trip last weekend in which absolutely nothing out of the ordinary happened (except a bruised knee when the 300-pound clod in front of me flopped into his seat like a some kind of aggrieved soccer player trying to draw a free kick), I wondered about a few constants in the airline/airport world. 1) Are we forever stuck with this stupid practice of unbuckling and standing in the aisle the literal millisecond the airplane comes to a stop? Followed by the inevitable morons from the back rows trying to push toward the front at an airport where connections are very unlikely? 2) Are we forever stuck with people standing around the gate trying to perfectly time the Group 4 boarding call, gumming up the rest of the gate area and corridor for everyone else? 3) I’ve never been treated anything buy professionally by TSA and airline employees. Could kindness and a reasonably positive outlook with them be the secret? Your thoughts?

Yes, this will change. Elon Musk is building a concept teletransporter. Initially, the range will be limited, but we will be able to grab our bags and facial recognition tech on our cell phones will ensure that we're automatically moved between the terminal and our seat when it's our time to board -- and between the aircraft and terminal when it's our time to deplane.

Ha, I’ve been compiling a list of things that annoy me so much when it comes to people at airports / on planes.

In no particular order:
- queuing to board
- Cutting queues
- Stowing Hand luggage
- Small bags big bags
- Coats
- Keeping aisles clear during boarding
- Window shades
- Lights on take off and landing
- Air vents
- Middle seats
- Aisle seats
- Window seats
- Emergency exits
- Food etiquette
- Deplaning swiftly
- Seat pulling
- Seat recline
- Seats during food service
- Body odour
- Talking to fellow pax
- Toilet etiquette
- Dealing with set backs
- Not being an a*****e
- Nobody cares about your status
- Nobody cares about your class of travel
- Being respectful towards others
- Pulling your weight to get home ASAP
- Standing in front of escalator exits
- Standing in the way
- Using the call button
- Finding your seat
- Body and gear awareness (backpacks)
- Taking advantage of available space (ie. move if you’re sat in a group of 3, and row in front only has 1)
- Crew - provide updates
- Crew/ground staff - give meaning to your actions
- Ground staff - enforce rules equally
- Using sick bags
- Keeping the aircraft clean
- Respecting others personal space
- Keeping queues flowing
- Security check etiquette
- Knowing the process, which docs when

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:

After taking a very routine domestic trip last weekend in which absolutely nothing out of the ordinary happened (except a bruised knee when the 300-pound clod in front of me flopped into his seat like a some kind of aggrieved soccer player trying to draw a free kick), I wondered about a few constants in the airline/airport world. 1) Are we forever stuck with this stupid practice of unbuckling and standing in the aisle the literal millisecond the airplane comes to a stop? Followed by the inevitable morons from the back rows trying to push toward the front at an airport where connections are very unlikely? 2) Are we forever stuck with people standing around the gate trying to perfectly time the Group 4 boarding call, gumming up the rest of the gate area and corridor for everyone else? 3) I’ve never been treated anything buy professionally by TSA and airline employees. Could kindness and a reasonably positive outlook with them be the secret? Your thoughts?

They could have the seatbelt signs go off by row or zone. However I don't think the guy in the last row who wants to get off now will care. Another alternative would be to make the announcement that anyone who remains seated will get a Starbucks gift card could also work.

I generally dislike the practice some airlines have of creating lines for each boarding group. That looks odd, and requires the removal of seating.

There is some positive news. Modern aircraft have room of all the passengers luggage. We just need to wait for all those aircraft designed in a time when people checked bags to get retired.

Volaris is very strict with deboarding by rows and I love it. So much more civilized.

It seems some people don't quite understand what an airplane operated by a commercial airline really is.
It is a BUS WITH WINGS
You can paint it in fancy colours. You can put beds in it. You can serve the passengers nice food or sell them nasty food. Sometimes people pay a lot of money for their bus ticket. Sometimes the journey takes many many hours. A lot of people get very emotionally involved about this type of bus.
But it is still a BUS WITH WINGS

davidjohnson6 wrote:

It seems some people don't quite understand what an airplane operated by a commercial airline really is.
It is a BUS WITH WINGS
You can paint it in fancy colours. You can put beds in it. You can serve the passengers nice food or sell them nasty food. Sometimes people pay a lot of money for their bus ticket. Sometimes the journey takes many many hours. A lot of people get very emotionally involved about this type of bus.
But it is still a BUS WITH WINGS

So I guess the private jet is the RV with wings.

That said, there are bus operators that are better than others.

As someone that deals with customers day in, day out like many people, I can say this is not strictly an aviation related thing.

Humans, for the most part, are just idiots. Pigs have more decency.

The security theater process in the US needs to be significantly streamlined.

N1120A wrote:

The security theater process in the US needs to be significantly streamlined.

Do you think though this is partially driven by the sheer volume of carry on people take in the US? It clogs up security checkpoints and the whole boarding process I feel.

I am making a broad generalization and on what has been about ~80 domestic flights in North America on legacy carriers over the last 5 years but people in the US take far more carry on luggage than any other country I've visited

N1120A wrote:

The security theater process in the US needs to be significantly streamlined.

Is it really that different in other countries? I have to say, I've had as many headaches with going through security at LHR or AMS, for example, as at your average US airport (with no offense intended to our UK or NL members, more just saying that they largely seem similar).

N1120A wrote:

The security theater process in the US needs to be significantly streamlined.

Unfortunately that will take time. Most terminals were designed and built before 9 /11 and have insufficient space for the currently required props for the security theater. As terminals get rebuilt a la SLC or parts of LAX better props are installed by the airport at the request of the main actor the TSA. Currently the best way to minimize becoming an actor in the play is pre check.

socaljoeyb wrote:

Volaris is very strict with deboarding by rows and I love it. So much more civilized.

All mexican airlines do it since Covid. Its one of the only good things that covid left. Deplaning is done by rows. called by FA's. I have flown turkish airlines and United quite a bit this year. Over 6 flights each. as well as the mexican airlines (Since im based out of MEX) and i definitely love the way AMX, Viva and Volaris deplane. Its more civilized and you feel safer and less stressed.

To answer initial poster.
This stuff is here to stay. If you want to minimize craziness - pay for the front of the bus and a lounge pass. Although most lounges are an over crowded mess these days.

Carry on issue is two fold - avoiding bag fees and fear of loosing bags with tight connections.

So no - it will not get better. You just have to plan for it and expect worse and when better happens - enjoy it.

And yes it's a bus with wings.
TSA precheck and global entry (or Mobile passport) are super time savers.

Many frequent travelers I know have occasional back pain issues that are exacerbated by long stretches of sitting. Unbuckling and standing in the aisle as quickly as possible may seem annoying to some, but is sometimes instant relief for some.

pilotkev1 wrote:

Many frequent travelers I know have occasional back pain issues that are exacerbated by long stretches of sitting. Unbuckling and standing in the aisle as quickly as possible may seem annoying to some, but is sometimes instant relief for some.

Sounds like your friends need to see a chiropractor

pilotkev1 wrote:

Many frequent travelers I know have occasional back pain issues that are exacerbated by long stretches of sitting. Unbuckling and standing in the aisle as quickly as possible may seem annoying to some, but is sometimes instant relief for some.

Yeah I can reiterate this. As a tall person I prefer to wait standing, so I will stand when possible (I usually get a window seat so I am not able to stand early). I don't find the standing annoying but the pushing past people is annoying.

I would also happily remain seated to allow people with tight connections to deplane first, but that is usually prevented by someone not willing to let someone go before them.

Over all I don't understand the general unpleasantness that some people exhibit when traveling. I try not to let anything get me too worked up, but travel certainly brings out the worst in some people.

Airlines should charge a hefty fee for overhead carry ons and allow checking for free. The current incentive is entirely backwards for a smooth boarding process.

N1120A wrote:

The security theater process in the US needs to be significantly streamlined.

According to you, what is really that theatrical about TSA check points?

pbody wrote:

pilotkev1 wrote:

Many frequent travelers I know have occasional back pain issues that are exacerbated by long stretches of sitting. Unbuckling and standing in the aisle as quickly as possible may seem annoying to some, but is sometimes instant relief for some.

Sounds like your friends need to see a chiropractor

I did. He said I should stand up as soon as possible. Deal.

If you zig when others zag it becomes a much more enjoyable experience.
A lot of it helps when you just don't try to be in such an unnecessary hurry.

1) Get TSA precheck
2) Get club / lounge access
3) Have elite access
4) Pay for First when it make sense
5) Don't crowd the gate - sit in nearby adjacent uncrowded empty gate area
6) Check luggage when it makes sense; no need to fight the carry-on game if you don't need to
7) Take nonstop flights
8) Book reasonable length connections; not too short / not too long
9) If you aren't in a hurry don't rush off the plane let others go first
10) Golden rule; do unto others as you wish others to do to you
11) Be nice to airline employees
12) Have a back-up plan - whether that be alternative flights, renting a car/driving, spending the night in a hotel, or changing to a different day
13) Educate yourself on airlines procedures / processes
14) Know how to navigate the airlines website / mobile app
15) Understand you are one of many trying to get from Point A to Point B
16) In IRROPS suggest an alterative that works for you; be proactive
17) Don't be an idiot, dress reasonable, and have some self-respect

ncflyer wrote:

Airlines should charge a hefty fee for overhead carry ons and allow checking for free. The current incentive is entirely backwards for a smooth boarding process.

I agree with that. Also, I think there should be dividers in the overhead with the seat number, limiting the size to 9x14x22. And, each seat is allocated a given space for bag, coat, or hat. Larger bags could be checked or pay $30 to put in large bag rack somewhere in cabin.

DenverTed wrote:

ncflyer wrote:

Airlines should charge a hefty fee for overhead carry ons and allow checking for free. The current incentive is entirely backwards for a smooth boarding process.

I agree with that. Also, I think there should be dividers in the overhead with the seat number, limiting the size to 9x14x22. And, each seat is allocated a given space for bag, coat, or hat. Larger bags could be checked or pay $30 to put in large bag rack somewhere in cabin.

Or go really extreme and take out overhead bin space completely and only allow carry underneath the seat infront of you

Airports (and airplanes) make people stupid. Plain and simple.

gmcc wrote:

DenverTed wrote:

ncflyer wrote:

Airlines should charge a hefty fee for overhead carry ons and allow checking for free. The current incentive is entirely backwards for a smooth boarding process.

I agree with that. Also, I think there should be dividers in the overhead with the seat number, limiting the size to 9x14x22. And, each seat is allocated a given space for bag, coat, or hat. Larger bags could be checked or pay $30 to put in large bag rack somewhere in cabin.

Or go really extreme and take out overhead bin space completely and only allow carry underneath the seat infront of you

The bottom line for me is that people taking full size bags for the overhead are using up boarding and deboarding time at the expense of others. I'll check a bag, but in 55 years of flying, for the first time, not once but twice in the last year, the bags went to the wrong carousel while the passengers stood around for 40 minutes until some passenger found the bags. Of course the employees at baggage claim had no idea, and did not solve the problem. So, I'll take my bags carrry-on, and be a time hog in security and boarding like the rest of the rat race.

jreeves96 wrote:

Airports (and airplanes) make people stupid. Plain and simple.

The fans on the rooves of airport terminals aren't for ventilation. They're to suck out passengers common sense.

All of the above mentioned things can irritate me but I have earned to expect them and mostly ignore them. I try to be the invisible man. I usually fly in First and often wait till there is a lull to board. Afterall you have an assigned seat. Always be nice to Airline workers as they can make your life miserable. Going thru Chicago on a total Ice storm shutdown I witnessed people screaming at the people trying to rebook them. It was totally crazy. When I got to the desk I asked the person if they would like me to stand here for a bit so no one would scream at them. She smiled and I got a free hotel room. The one curios thing I saw on the list was talking to a seat mate. I like to meet people and chat. I also can recognize when someone doesn't want to chat so I am pretty polite and stop if they are not receptive.

fabian9 wrote:

- Keeping queues flowing
- Security check etiquette
- Knowing the process, which docs when

These are the biggest for me, like its 2022 you should know that you need your boarding pass to get on the plane, and that you need to take your shoes and belt off at security.

totesen wrote:

socaljoeyb wrote:

Volaris is very strict with deboarding by rows and I love it. So much more civilized.

All mexican airlines do it since Covid. Its one of the only good things that covid left. Deplaning is done by rows. called by FA's. I have flown turkish airlines and United quite a bit this year. Over 6 flights each. as well as the mexican airlines (Since im based out of MEX) and i definitely love the way AMX, Viva and Volaris deplane. Its more civilized and you feel safer and less stressed.

What about people with tight connections? I can't tell you how many times I've heard, on delayed flights, "local pax please remain seated so that pax with tight connections may exit the aircraft."

maps4ltd wrote:

totesen wrote:

socaljoeyb wrote:

Volaris is very strict with deboarding by rows and I love it. So much more civilized.

All mexican airlines do it since Covid. Its one of the only good things that covid left. Deplaning is done by rows. called by FA's. I have flown turkish airlines and United quite a bit this year. Over 6 flights each. as well as the mexican airlines (Since im based out of MEX) and i definitely love the way AMX, Viva and Volaris deplane. Its more civilized and you feel safer and less stressed.

What about people with tight connections? I can't tell you how many times I've heard, on delayed flights, "local pax please remain seated so that pax with tight connections may exit the aircraft."

Wonder if there is something that can be done with in-seat IFE. Maybe a red or green screen with a message? Local passenger or long connection, you get red. Tight connection, green screen.

I haven't flown in the US in 2+ years because of COVID, but will again this summer finally (yay?). When I was booking tickets for the fam between NY and AZ, I found fares that had no checked baggage and no carryon baggage. So you get one small personal item under your seat? No way people adhere to this, right? Unless you're maintaining two households with sufficient wardrobes in each, how does this work? I'll give it this, the fare was cheap.

USAAUA wrote:

maps4ltd wrote:

totesen wrote:

All mexican airlines do it since Covid. Its one of the only good things that covid left. Deplaning is done by rows. called by FA's. I have flown turkish airlines and United quite a bit this year. Over 6 flights each. as well as the mexican airlines (Since im based out of MEX) and i definitely love the way AMX, Viva and Volaris deplane. Its more civilized and you feel safer and less stressed.

What about people with tight connections? I can't tell you how many times I've heard, on delayed flights, "local pax please remain seated so that pax with tight connections may exit the aircraft."

Wonder if there is something that can be done with in-seat IFE. Maybe a red or green screen with a message? Local passenger or long connection, you get red. Tight connection, green screen.

With the way things going on in the world, that wouldnt work. Airlines will probably be sued for discrimination

jreeves96 wrote:

Airports (and airplanes) make people stupid. Plain and simple.

My general experience as a frequent traveler and a former airline employee is that people check their brains with their luggage. I don't know if it's the nervousness before travel or the overwhelming noise and crowd, but people tend to do very stupid things at the airport and while flying. And the gems are those who are absolutely unaware of their surroundings.

I prefer to have (small size legal weight) carry on only as airport checked baggage can take forever to be handed back. Plus it gets thrown around and treated in bad ways.

I think there should be a navigation system on the cell phone guiding people through airports and to their gates including estimated time enroute. Maybe this would help to avoid people being stressed? Aircraft cabins have become too tight for many people by width and seat pitch and including restrooms. Add no service and food (sugar) and people on the road for hours and it is no surprise some freak out.

The entire airline travel experience needs to be redesigned from the ground up. Take a high speed train or a bus for comparison and see how easy travelling can be.

pbody wrote:

pilotkev1 wrote:

Many frequent travelers I know have occasional back pain issues that are exacerbated by long stretches of sitting. Unbuckling and standing in the aisle as quickly as possible may seem annoying to some, but is sometimes instant relief for some.

Sounds like your friends need to see a chiropractor

This made me lol

hz747300 wrote:

I haven't flown in the US in 2+ years because of COVID, but will again this summer finally (yay?). When I was booking tickets for the fam between NY and AZ, I found fares that had no checked baggage and no carryon baggage. So you get one small personal item under your seat? No way people adhere to this, right? Unless you're maintaining two households with sufficient wardrobes in each, how does this work? I'll give it this, the fare was cheap.

Yes, one thing under the seat.
People adhere to it.
And the gate agents monitor it consistently.
The threat of getting slapped with a $100 gate check for a bag is enough for most people to adhere to the posted rules in advance.

But I generally love it. I can do 2+ weeks of travel before I need anything bigger than a backpack under my seat. Some people travel light, and others don’t. It’s mind-boggling to see how much luggage so many people drag around with them.

I had a flight in Turkey about 10 years ago and we literally hadn’t cleared the runway before people started standing up and getting their stuff out of the overheads.

About 6 months ago I was flying into JFK. We landed and as soon as the seatbelt sign turned off, I stood up to grab my carryon bag. This lady literally pushes me to the side so she could make it to the front of the plane. We were 15 minutes early too! Anyways, I started just staring at her, and she gives me the eye roll and says, "I got a connection." Well.... That was it for me! I looked her square in the eyes and said, "About 70% of this plane has connections mam." She looks at me and says, "you don't have to be rude ya know?"

It was at that point I decided to just bite my lip and count to cool my brewing feelings. Had that happened in my 20's, that lady would have definitely heard a piece of my mind. Anyways, it took about 5 minutes to get the front door open, and all I did was continue to stare at her. She definitely felt uncomfortable at that point.

People are just so rude anymore. It's the same mentality in everything now! People have to be in the front of the line to anything now, like stores and concerts. Not to mention people on the freeway in traffic, using the emergency lanes to get around a traffic backup. Ughhh!!

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:

... 1) Are we forever stuck with this stupid practice of unbuckling and standing in the aisle the literal millisecond the airplane comes to a stop? Followed by the inevitable morons from the back rows trying to push toward the front at an airport where connections are very unlikely?...

This indeed remains if airlines and airports dont orchestrate their connections properly. Any flight on commercial pax air travel is also an experience that gradually loses its satisfaction among passengers the longer it progresses in time. So in that regard imho airlines will have to do their best in their abilities to make their onboard/incabin experience as comfortable and pleasant as possible.

Also people generally dont want to stay confined in their seats when they finally arrive at their destination airport, especially if their experience wasn't very satisfied. Commercial airplanes are a form of public transport and you cannot unfortunately please everyone in public transport. So I think speeding up deboarding can help a little, like utilising over-the-wing jetways and opening up the back doors.

totesen wrote:

socaljoeyb wrote:

Volaris is very strict with deboarding by rows and I love it. So much more civilized.

All mexican airlines do it since Covid. Its one of the only good things that covid left. Deplaning is done by rows. called by FA's. I have flown turkish airlines and United quite a bit this year. Over 6 flights each. as well as the mexican airlines (Since im based out of MEX) and i definitely love the way AMX, Viva and Volaris deplane. Its more civilized and you feel safer and less stressed.

Vueling did it too last time I flew to Spain. Whenever someone stood up in a row that was not called, the crew asked them to sit down. Everyone seemed to comply and not complain.

ncflyer wrote:

Airlines should charge a hefty fee for overhead carry ons and allow checking for free. The current incentive is entirely backwards for a smooth boarding process.

BEEN saying this. This cargo bay is for everything-and-the-kitchen-sink; the overheads, are not.

Exemptions for medical necessities and baby gear, but other than that, they've got it so backwards.

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

So I think speeding up deboarding can help a little, like utilising over-the-wing jetways and opening up the back doors.

Do such jetways even exist anymore. I know a few airports had them at some point, don't know if they still do. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that they tried this in Denver, but they did away with them after one collapsed onto the wing of a 757.

Noshow wrote:

I think there should be a navigation system on the cell phone guiding people through airports and to their gates including estimated time enroute. Maybe this would help to avoid people being stressed?

I believe some airports have such apps but I can't remember which. Others indicate walking/travel time to gates like MAD.

teachpdx wrote:

But I generally love it. I can do 2+ weeks of travel before I need anything bigger than a backpack under my seat. Some people travel light, and others don’t. It’s mind-boggling to see how much luggage so many people drag around with them.

Traveling light is an art unknown to many. Why carry a full bottle of shampoo when you can just take what you need for your trip in a small container or buy locally?

That's something to start with. But it needs to be interactive. Like guiding you to the next restroom but not if it closed for cleanup at this moment. Or showing last minute gate changes, bus departure lanes and such.
Many airports intentionally don't tell you the gate until the final moment to make you hang around in the shopping area in the main hall. Finally people need to rush to their gate ending up stressed on board.

WayexTDI wrote:

N1120A wrote:

The security theater process in the US needs to be significantly streamlined.

According to you, what is really that theatrical about TSA check points?

Everything beyond metal detectors and baggage x-rays.

BEG2IAH wrote:

jreeves96 wrote:

Airports (and airplanes) make people stupid. Plain and simple.

My general experience as a frequent traveler and a former airline employee is that people check their brains with their luggage. I don't know if it's the nervousness before travel or the overwhelming noise and crowd, but people tend to do very stupid things at the airport and while flying. And the gems are those who are absolutely unaware of their surroundings.

I averaged six flights a month for two years for my previous job. Pre-covid it was okay. But for some reason during covid 2020 just about everybody was flying and every airport was just one big zoo of people having absolutely no idea what to do. As we've seen with more people fighting in airports and on planes.

I’ll add....
People blocking the moving walkway by standing on both right AND left side. It’s not a ride!

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:

After taking a very routine domestic trip last weekend in which absolutely nothing out of the ordinary happened (except a bruised knee when the 300-pound clod in front of me flopped into his seat like a some kind of aggrieved soccer player trying to draw a free kick), I wondered about a few constants in the airline/airport world. 1) Are we forever stuck with this stupid practice of unbuckling and standing in the aisle the literal millisecond the airplane comes to a stop? Followed by the inevitable morons from the back rows trying to push toward the front at an airport where connections are very unlikely? 2) Are we forever stuck with people standing around the gate trying to perfectly time the Group 4 boarding call, gumming up the rest of the gate area and corridor for everyone else? 3) I’ve never been treated anything buy professionally by TSA and airline employees. Could kindness and a reasonably positive outlook with them be the secret? Your thoughts?

Although I don't do it myself, I have no problem with #1 because it speeds up deplaning. I hated it when in the last 2 years pax could only get up from their seats when the FA called their rows. It took me 20 minutes to get off a fully loaded 777 with that system Allowing people to get up as soon as the plane parks allows people to pull their carry-on down and be ready to walk out as soon as the doors open.
I'm guilty of #2 and that's not changing. Boarding by group instead of by rows is the devil and I won't support it
And I've also never had any issues with TSA, Immigration officials however they are as rude as you can find. They may as well have a sign tattooed on their foreheads that reads "I failed my mall cop interview and all I could get was this job".

Cory6188 wrote:

N1120A wrote:

The security theater process in the US needs to be significantly streamlined.

Is it really that different in other countries? I have to say, I've had as many headaches with going through security at LHR or AMS, for example, as at your average US airport (with no offense intended to our UK or NL members, more just saying that they largely seem similar).

The worst I ever saw was in France. Some guy asked to see my ticket every 20 feet through the line

#2, find enough overhead space to match the # of pax bags. When you have 180 pax and room for 130 bags, people are going to fight to avoid having to check their carry on. If it weren't for that I wouldn't care what group I boarded in