Hi,

Firstly apologies if the subject title of this thread is not that clear and for also starting with another question but I was thinking now that I am here (sorry!)...

Anyway my question if possible is regarding something in aviation that I had never heard about even here in the UK until maybe a year or two ago. That of the one-time flying car ferries?

At first when I was told such a service once existed I was quite blown away to be honest. I mean I had been on a car-carrying Hovercraft from Dover to Calais (Uk-France) growing up a few times but to cross the English channel with your car by putting it on the plane?!

Anyway a little internet searching later and I did find a bit more information (Wikipedia link hopefully at the bottom) but any thoughts/opinions/memories would be welcome really. And did such services ever happen commercially in other parts of the World or was it more a one-off that could work because of the unique traffic/distances and stuff with the English Channel/La Manche?

Anyway hopefully this came out making some sense and any thoughts of course welcome. I have tried to hopefully put a link to Silver City airways at the bottom too if curious.

Anyway with many thanks again and any thoughts welcome,

Ps762

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_City_Airways

Indeed, such services were popular back in the days. The ATL-98 Carvair was essentially a converted DC-4 which could contain a couple of cars while the passengers sat in the upper cabin, kind of like a 747 but much smaller.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Indeed, such services were popular back in the days. The ATL-98 Carvair was essentially a converted DC-4 which could contain a couple of cars while the passengers sat in the upper cabin, kind of like a 747 but much smaller.

Hi,

Just to say a quick many thanks for reading and also the reply and information provided too. Definitely another aircraft mentioned that I will maybe have to try and look up in a bit online again if I can.

But definitely it sounds to me like a quite interesting concept and business model though. I mean I guess if the distance is short and there was enough traffic maybe it could work and tickets even might not have to be too expensive either?

But as for working ops on such a setup hmm I mean I'm only a dream pilot as it were but to have that gig ferrying back and forth all day... But then maybe it didn't require that many rotations...

I guess the only modern-day remnant of such services might be for those with very large amounts of money who might ferry their cars around the World which I have heard does sometimes happen although I'm not sure how true that information was when I heard it. And maybe car companies might ferry cars to display new models and things at autoshows but now I am kinda just guessing and out of my knowledge comfort zone as it were(!)

Anyway with many thanks again,

Ps762

Ps762 wrote:

Hi,

And did such services ever happen commercially in other parts of the World or was it more a one-off that could work because of the unique traffic/distances and stuff with the English Channel/La Manche?

Yes, Aer Lingus operated across the Irish Sea to Britain and also to France with the ATL Carvair for a number of years, pending the arrival of roll-on roll-off car ferries.
The aircraft were also used for bloodstock and freight services and the small number of spare passenger seats were also sold to foot passengers.

IIRC there were sililar services between the North and South Islands of New Zealand with Bristol Freighters or Superfreighters.

Fascinating stuff! I had to look it up myself. While I doubt you'll get many people responding to your post with memories, going down the rabbit hole yielded this wonderful Silver City Airways advert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kstdaFg0drc

I also found this video on the ATR Carvair (which is longer and more detailed):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJcXJG9LRhI

In the comments section, quite a few people shared some great memories of using these services. I hope you enjoy!

Ps762 wrote:

I guess the only modern-day remnant of such services might be for those with very large amounts of money who might ferry their cars around the World which I have heard does sometimes happen although I'm not sure how true that information was when I heard it. And maybe car companies might ferry cars to display new models and things at autoshows but now I am kinda just guessing and out of my knowledge comfort zone as it were(!)

Back in 2014 I witnessed an SUV being loaded into the cargo hold of a KLM 747 combi at ORD. I have no idea why it was being shipped by air; if it was some wealthy passenger who wanted to ship their car with them to Europe, or if it was being shipped for a car show like you suggest. Whatever it was someone apparently needed that car in Europe in a hurry.

Hi (again thanks!),

Firstly sorry for not doing the whole reply with quote thing but just I guess to say many thanks for the replies and information and stuff. Some nice thoughts I thought and also will try and have a look at the links provided as well. I'm guessing that I will find out that in such situations unlike a RORO car ferry people probably never drove their cars onto the aircraft themselves(!) Anyway still an interesting concept I think and when hearing small things from aviation history whether from war or peace I am often I think quite amazed by little things (well to me looking back) that are there that I never knew about.

And finally regarding the cargo loading also many thanks and that image reminded me of spending some summers in the early 2000's at Zurich watching an MNG cargo A310 maybe being loaded daily. I had no idea really what was in the pallets which might wait a while to be loaded so I could look. Maybe electrical equipment and for some reason I would imagine large flat-screen TV's but maybe that was more my imagination. Still some nice memories so many thanks again.

Anyway with greets and many thanks again,

Ps762

Are there still options for flying with your car in the US ?


Could you buy a seat on a widebody that’s transporting your vehicle between cities ?

I’m sure it’s possible, expensive but possible

Max Q wrote:

Are there still options for flying with your car in the US ?

Could you buy a seat on a widebody that’s transporting your vehicle between cities ?

I’m sure it’s possible, expensive but possible

It would appear that, for the right price: Lufthansa may well offer such a service.

" I'm guessing that I will find out that in such situations unlike a RORO car ferry people probably never drove their cars onto the aircraft themselves(!)"

Correct.
The EI ATL Carvairs, which were high off the ground, were loaded by means of a scissors lift and the car was driven on and off by airline staff. Watched it many times.
The Bristol Freighters and Superfreighters, closer to the ground were easier to load by ramps, but also by airline staff.

rjsampson wrote:

Max Q wrote:

Are there still options for flying with your car in the US ?

Could you buy a seat on a widebody that’s transporting your vehicle between cities ?

I’m sure it’s possible, expensive but possible

It would appear that, for the right price: Lufthansa may well offer such a service.

Yes, you can send your car by air internationally


Curious to know if this is an option in the contiguous United States

Max Q wrote:

rjsampson wrote:

Yes, you can send your car by air internationally


Curious to know if this is an option in the contiguous United States

On 121 passenger US airlines, it's not an option. I contacted the cargo departments for Delta, United, and American Airlines this morning to inquire. Each said they do not offer this service.

I drilled down a little further, to see if this was an option on their 135 charter flights; American and United also indicated they were not equipped for that. The exceptionally helpful person at Delta said that she recalled an NFL team did this when chartering a 747, but that none of their aircraft are currently equipped for car shipment. All three airlines did however refer me to other Air Freight services that do offer this service.

rjsampson wrote:

Max Q wrote:

rjsampson wrote:

Yes, you can send your car by air internationally


Curious to know if this is an option in the contiguous United States

On 121 passenger US airlines, it's not an option. I contacted the cargo departments for Delta, United, and American Airlines this morning to inquire. Each said they do not offer this service.

I drilled down a little further, to see if this was an option on their 135 charter flights; American and United also indicated they were not equipped for that. The exceptionally helpful person at Delta said that she recalled an NFL team did this when chartering a 747, but that none of their aircraft are currently equipped for car shipment. All three airlines did however refer me to other Air Freight services that do offer this service.

Interesting,

Continental used to offer this service and I remember several cars being shipped on A300s around the country


Allegedly one car remained running for the entire flight in the cargo hold

If you need firm evidence of the British United Air ferries car ferry service look no further than the James Bond film ‘Goldfinger’. Part way through the film Goldfinger loads his Rolls Royce Phantom onto I believe, a BUAF Carvair and flies from Southend to Geneva. James Bond, watching from the wings promptly loads his Aston Martin onto their next car ferry service to Geneva which leaves only half an hour later. Quite the efficient service.

Apparently in the original Ian Fleming book the flights are operated by Silver City Airways but by the time the film was made Silver City were no more having been merged into BUAF.

And if you can handle it, the Morecame and Wise film "That Riviera Touch" shows cars being loaded on a Bristol Superfreighter at Lydd Ferryport fairly early into the film.

rjsampson wrote:

On 121 passenger US airlines, it's not an option. I contacted the cargo departments for Delta, United, and American Airlines this morning to inquire. Each said they do not offer this service.

[...]

Very interesting, thanks for your homework. I wonder why that is. After all, your average car is neither especially heavy nor especially bulky. I would understand some appropriate pre-treatment, e.g., remove all fluids, perhaps the battery, deflate the tires, etc., plus maybe put it on some special pallet or in some container, but other than that, if someone is willing to pay, why not?