Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
flapsdown40
Topic Author
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:41 am

Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:08 pm

Hello all. I noticed some months back that Qatar Airways now offers 2 daily non-stops from their home base at Doha to Los Angeles as well as the 2 return flights back to DOH.. I believe the flight numbers are 739 and 741 outbound to LAX, and 740 and 742 back to DOH. FWIW, 742 leaves LAX first, followed by 740 about 3 hours or so later.

But my question is about the demand for 2 flights per day in each direction.

Does Qatar fill enough seats on each flight using their A350-1041's that have (according to SeatGuru) a total of 327 seats to justify operating 2 flights per day in each direction? I'm guessing if they have enough demand that fills up one A350 but there are still 128 people who wanted to be on the first plane, would 10 passengers flying in Business Class and the other 118 people in economy be justification for Qatar to operate the 2nd flight? Especially these days with high fuel prices- would Qatar even turn a small profit flying 128 people aboard an A350-1041? From my calculations (I hope it was right,) 128 people on a plane with 327 seats means the plane would be just shy of being 40% full. I'm sure that the number of passengers on a given flight changes from day to day and week to week, so, in theory, an airline could lose money on some days but turn a profit on others.

It is obvious I have no idea of how airline economics works, which is why I posted this question in the first place. Perhaps somebody "in the know" of these things could help shed some light on this subject for me.

Thank you in advance for any answers.

Flapsdown40
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6980
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:20 pm

There is very little demand from DOH to anywhere in North America. What DOH provides is an excellent connecting point to the Middle East, Africa, the Indian Subcontinent, and even Southeast Asia. That is what would drive a flight like that.
 
User avatar
Boiler905
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:05 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:20 pm

One word. Cargo.
 
smi0006
Posts: 3057
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:36 pm

How many departure banks does QR have at Doha these days? Maybe the connect with different banks?
 
x1234
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:38 pm

People will go out of the way to fly QR if the price is low enough. Legacy carriers that took this traffic via Europe/East Asia have high labour costs with high airfares.
 
nickpo
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:48 pm

smi0006 wrote:
How many departure banks does QR have at Doha these days? Maybe the connect with different banks?


There are 3 main banks at DOH. Some other additional flights which are not connecting out of the banks.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 2044
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:59 pm

of the ME3,I believe they have the most frequency to India from their DOH hub
 
User avatar
Spiderguy252
Posts: 1264
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:58 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:28 am

RJNUT wrote:
of the ME3,I believe they have the most frequency to India from their DOH hub


Not true. EK does.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 3339
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:51 am

No 10J + 118Y isn't enough (even with all the cargo in the world) to justify operating the second flight- if, in theory, that was the average pax load. However, the 2nd flight maybe provides all the required connections on the return journey that the first flight can't due to the schedule arrival/departure times. Aside from LHR, CAI, DXB and maybe BKK/KUL there isn't any DOH originating demand to anywhere- it's all about transit traffic.
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 1231
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:52 am

Boiler905 wrote:
One word. Cargo.


Yeah, absolutely not the reason you operate a pax widebody a second frequency over such a long stage length.
 
flapsdown40
Topic Author
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:41 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:33 am

Thanks for all who answered my post. Somehow it never occurred to me as I was composing my original post that both DXB and DOH are very well known as being TRANSIT airports rather than "ultimate destination" airports. I seem to recall that during the Amber Heard-Johnny Depp trial, Amber stated that she flew from NYC to Australia via Dubai, where she called Johnny to say hi before catching her 2nd flight leg to Australia. And there are dozens of airline flight reviews on YouTube by people who are simply transiting DXB or DOH on their way to their ultimate destination. As an aside, someone commented that due to the extreme daytime heat at DOH (and I assume the same is true for DXB and DWC as well,) the inside of the DOH terminal building is **freezing cold** LOL ha ha ha. :cold: :coffee:
And, of course, we can't forget what might be the world's largest teddy bear chilling inside the DOH terminal, watching travelers walking to and from their flights.

Flapsdown40
 
myki
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:52 pm

With their huge populations only a couple of hours flight away, India, Pakistan and the rest of the ISC are the lifeblood and cashcows of the Persian Gulf airlines. With a one-stop connection between the likes of Seattle and Kolkata, Toronto and Lucknow, or San Francisco and Islamabad, these airlines offer a service that the European airlines cannot.

Sure, some passengers will have these cities (DOH, AUH, DXB, etc.) as their terminating destination, but by far the market - the MASSIVE market - is transit between North America/Europe and the ISC.
 
3D101CA
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:50 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:19 am

While I don't know the specific load factors on QR DOH-LAX, it's all about flying connecting traffic. I wouldn't be surprised though if they had two daily flights operated with low loads on each of them.

QR and EK are revelant because many markets are unserved or underserved to the rest of the world, and stopping over at DOH and DXB are the easiest and most direct ways to get to your final destination otherwise.
 
User avatar
Boeing757100
Posts: 1229
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:32 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
There is very little demand from DOH to anywhere in North America. What DOH provides is an excellent connecting point to the Middle East, Africa, the Indian Subcontinent, and even Southeast Asia. That is what would drive a flight like that.


In that case, TK and EK also are successful due to this reason. Do they all not cut into each others' success because of the competition, let alone the few direct flights from the US-India by AI/UA and formerly DL? I'm just curious.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6980
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:22 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
There is very little demand from DOH to anywhere in North America. What DOH provides is an excellent connecting point to the Middle East, Africa, the Indian Subcontinent, and even Southeast Asia. That is what would drive a flight like that.


In that case, TK and EK also are successful due to this reason. Do they all not cut into each others' success because of the competition, let alone the few direct flights from the US-India by AI/UA and formerly DL? I'm just curious.


IST and DXB are massive local markets. TK has very limited service to India. Its not the same thing.
 
N1120A
Posts: 27335
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:30 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
There is very little demand from DOH to anywhere in North America. What DOH provides is an excellent connecting point to the Middle East, Africa, the Indian Subcontinent, and even Southeast Asia. That is what would drive a flight like that.


In that case, TK and EK also are successful due to this reason. Do they all not cut into each others' success because of the competition, let alone the few direct flights from the US-India by AI/UA and formerly DL? I'm just curious.


IST and DXB are massive local markets. TK has very limited service to India. Its not the same thing.


DXB is not a "massive" local market. IST is.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 3339
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:29 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
There is very little demand from DOH to anywhere in North America. What DOH provides is an excellent connecting point to the Middle East, Africa, the Indian Subcontinent, and even Southeast Asia. That is what would drive a flight like that.


In that case, TK and EK also are successful due to this reason. Do they all not cut into each others' success because of the competition, let alone the few direct flights from the US-India by AI/UA and formerly DL? I'm just curious.


IST and DXB are massive local markets. TK has very limited service to India. Its not the same thing.


IST and all of Turkey, yes. DXB is only "massive" if the final destination is India or Pakistan.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2587
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:33 am

myki wrote:
With their huge populations only a couple of hours flight away, India, Pakistan and the rest of the ISC are the lifeblood and cashcows of the Persian Gulf airlines. With a one-stop connection between the likes of Seattle and Kolkata, Toronto and Lucknow, or San Francisco and Islamabad, these airlines offer a service that the European airlines cannot.

Sure, some passengers will have these cities (DOH, AUH, DXB, etc.) as their terminating destination, but by far the market - the MASSIVE market - is transit between North America/Europe and the ISC.


I wonder why Japan/Korea couldn't pick up some of this traffic? They also offer one stops to the ISC, and distance-wise it's about the same.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 22379
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Travel demand on Qatar between Doha and LAX

Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:46 pm

flapsdown40 wrote:
Thanks for all who answered my post. Somehow it never occurred to me as I was composing my original post that both DXB and DOH are very well known as being TRANSIT airports rather than "ultimate destination" airports.


Both the governments of the UAE/Dubai and Qatar have worked very hard to make Dubai and Doha into attractive destinations. Dubai has had more success and tends to attract people looking for high-end luxury shopping and dining experiences for lower prices than would be encountered in a European or Asian major city. Dubai and Doha have also worked to attract major events (sporting, trade). However, the strict religious-based legal system and concerns about safety particularly of female and LGBT travelers has been a challenge to the overall cache of these destinations.

That said, both Dubai and Qatar have poured enormous resources into developing their airport infrastructure, both with respect to passengers and cargo. For example, just a few years ago, Dubai opened the Dubai Flower Centre at their airport dedicated to the transport of fresh flowers, which have strict temperature and humidity requirements to ensure freshness of the cargo. With this has come a major investment in their airlines. Abu Dhabi has also been trying to keep up with their city, airport, and airline (Etihad), although the seem to have fallen a bit behind the other two of the ME3.

Another city-state that has gained great fame for having followed this model is Singapore. Singapore also has a strict legal system, but certainly more liberal than those of the Middle-East cities and so they have done a bit better as a destination for both business and tourism. Their airport is a destination in and of itself and of course SQ has a global reputation as one of the finest in the world if not the #1 standard for service. Singapore's focus on itself as a transit and business hub, in addition to investments in infrastructure, health, and public education has taken a rather backwater city-state in the 1970s and 1980s to one of the world's most prosperous nations today, ranking #7 globally for GDP-per-capita and #9 globally for HDI.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: phatfarmlines and 6 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos