Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Art at ISP wrote:I have been pondering this question for some time.
Art at ISP wrote:I used it almost every week, knowing that I'd have to connect in PHL to get anywhere.
Art at ISP wrote:Now that AA has pulled out, it leaves only business unfriendly airlines there (well Southwest is semi friendly, but doesn't provide enough comfort, plus I like pre assigned seats).
Art at ISP wrote:Frontier is a third world airline, and as far as Breeze, they really don't go enough places to build loyalty in the business travel sector.
Art at ISP wrote:So what would it take for a major to try again at ISP?
SurfandSnow wrote:
If ISP didn't work for AA, DL and UA then I can't see why any such services would work now. Those carriers would rather focus their resources on higher-revenue opportunities at the big 3 primary Tri-State area airports where they have hubs anyways.
TWA772LR wrote:I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.
Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.SurfandSnow wrote:
If ISP didn't work for AA, DL and UA then I can't see why any such services would work now. Those carriers would rather focus their resources on higher-revenue opportunities at the big 3 primary Tri-State area airports where they have hubs anyways.
Not even JFK can work for United.
TonyClifton wrote:TWA772LR wrote:I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.
Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.SurfandSnow wrote:
If ISP didn't work for AA, DL and UA then I can't see why any such services would work now. Those carriers would rather focus their resources on higher-revenue opportunities at the big 3 primary Tri-State area airports where they have hubs anyways.
Not even JFK can work for United.
ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.
TonyClifton wrote:TWA772LR wrote:I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.
Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.SurfandSnow wrote:
If ISP didn't work for AA, DL and UA then I can't see why any such services would work now. Those carriers would rather focus their resources on higher-revenue opportunities at the big 3 primary Tri-State area airports where they have hubs anyways.
Not even JFK can work for United.
ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.
STT757 wrote:What bus service like what AA is doing from PHL to ABE and ACY. AA could establish connecting bus service from ISP to Kennedy or LaGuardia.
zuckie13 wrote:TonyClifton wrote:TWA772LR wrote:I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.
Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.
Not even JFK can work for United.
ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.
To be fair, it's a single seat ride as long as you find another seat to get from the Terminal to the train station. Terminal is on the south side of the airfield, station is along the north edge - nowhere near each other.
LINYUSA wrote:ISP is a l-o-n-g way (over 50 mi) from Manhattan by car, and from Penn Station the trip takes about 90 minutes. Why would anyone from N.Y.C. wan to schlep all the way out into central Suffolk Co. to catch a flight, when from LGA, JFK, or EWR one can fly all over the world, often nonstop?
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:HPN is almost within walking distance (not that you’d ever walk) to the corporate headquarters of companies like Mastercard and Pepsi. There is a lot of affluent residents as well as business travel to Westchester County. It serves both a leisure purpose (JetBlue and Breeze) as well as business demand (American, Delta and United). While LGA isn’t far, the convenience for some high value business traffic will make HPN much more attractive for legacy airlines
STT757 wrote:I got into an argument with people recently about ISP, they feel the terminal should be moved so there could be a direct connection to the LIRR. It makes sense for people who live near an LIRR station on Ronkonkoma line. However to expect people to travel 90 minutes from Manhattan to ISP for 1 daily frequencies FR offers doesn't make sense. ISP, SWF,TTN, ACY are in the same boat in terms of the majors.
TonyClifton wrote:ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:Weatherwatcher1 wrote:HPN is almost within walking distance (not that you’d ever walk) to the corporate headquarters of companies like Mastercard and Pepsi. There is a lot of affluent residents as well as business travel to Westchester County. It serves both a leisure purpose (JetBlue and Breeze) as well as business demand (American, Delta and United). While LGA isn’t far, the convenience for some high value business traffic will make HPN much more attractive for legacy airlines
KHPN is bizjet central.
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:HPN is almost within walking distance (not that you’d ever walk) to the corporate headquarters of companies like Mastercard and Pepsi. There is a lot of affluent residents as well as business travel to Westchester County. It serves both a leisure purpose (JetBlue and Breeze) as well as business demand (American, Delta and United). While LGA isn’t far, the convenience for some high value business traffic will make HPN much more attractive for legacy airlines
TonyClifton wrote:TWA772LR wrote:I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.
Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.SurfandSnow wrote:
If ISP didn't work for AA, DL and UA then I can't see why any such services would work now. Those carriers would rather focus their resources on higher-revenue opportunities at the big 3 primary Tri-State area airports where they have hubs anyways.
Not even JFK can work for United.
ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.
N1120A wrote:TonyClifton wrote:TWA772LR wrote:I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.
Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.
Not even JFK can work for United.
ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.
If it was actually a single seat ride, that might help ISP, but it doesn't. The JFK and EWR connections are much more seamless, integrated and quicker. The reality is that ISP may have a decent catchment, but it gets obliterated by having JFK and LGA on the same island, and then by being on the wrong side of the City for people who might drive in from other places. Meanwhile, HPN has a much more convenient location to draw from suburbs and other local states. Even SWF is better located than ISP. The important thing to realize is that very little of the traffic for any of these airports is actually NYC O&D - it's pulling from people who don't want to go to NYC (or near NYC in the case of EWR) for a flight.