I have been pondering this question for some time. ISP Is a quiet gem of an airport located in Central Long Island. It is 15 minutes or so from my home, and during the early 2000's I used it almost every week, knowing that I'd have to connect in PHL to get anywhere. I flew so much that the agents knew me by sight, and always looked out for me. I earned my million miler status on AA (US at the time) there as well.

Now that AA has pulled out, it leaves only business unfriendly airlines there (well Southwest is semi friendly, but doesn't provide enough comfort, plus I like pre assigned seats).
Frontier is a third world airline, and as far as Breeze, they really don't go enough places to build loyalty in the business travel sector.

So what would it take for a major to try again at ISP? I think part of the previous problem was that they always charged higher prices than NYC, but I think there IS a market there, especially with a new terminal coming on the north side of the airport. I understand not wanting to dilute their hubs in NYC, but HPN is a similar distance from JFK and LGA and the majors seem happy there.......so what is it about ISP that makes it a bad choice?

I just came back from LAS via LGA--connected in ORD and paid $156 for parking!!!!!!! Great airport now but parking is way too expensive.

Just throwing it out there for discussion........

HPN has the benefit of being able to pull from not just Westchester, but CT and NJ as well as northern part of NYC. ISP is purely limited to Long Island, and too far out for most of Nassau county so it’s behind JFK especially considering the options.

HPN draws traffic from a broader, and generally more affluent area than ISP, and one that is quite large and in some cases, goes well beyond Westchester and Connecticut. ISP overlaps a lot with JFK and LGA, and its location has it drawing a far more local (very local) traffic.

It's pretty easy to get mean and median household information by congressional district. Play around and compare HPN and ISP catchment areas. The NYC airports do see passenger favorites because of transit issues (public transit lines, and bridges), but if it's not transit or proximate hub airports, it's almost always catchment population and income.

https://www.census.gov/mycd/?st=36

Geography and costs would be my guess.

HPN can draw from nj, ny and ct. Long Island is just an isolated place and costs including housing are maximum. You can’t commute to isp as a worker from anywhere even medium on price.

Lots of people in the area but the vast majority look at ticket prices and jfk is ultra competitive market so it hurts ISP exponentially. Most people look at ticket prices almost solely and worry about getting to the airport later. There should be more demand given the high population but I’m guessing costs are too high to justify the service and people expect the affordable fares at jfk which are not financially doable at isp. Jfk feeds off volume.

Art at ISP wrote:

I have been pondering this question for some time.

Really?!? There is virtually nothing stopping any U.S. carrier from serving ISP - it has some of the lowest barriers to entry of any commercial airport in the Tri-State area after all. However, consider that very name of the massive New York metropolitan area: ISP makes absolutely no sense for folks living in 2 of the 3 states that comprise the Tri-State area. Even many New Yorkers live much closer to other airports than ISP. While Long Island is estimated to be home to over 8 million people, well over half of that population lives in Brooklyn and Queens (i.e., closer to LGA and JFK). At best, you're looking at less than 3 million people that *might* even consider ISP to be the most convenient option for travel. I daresay HPN could appeal to a much bigger population, wouldn't you?

Art at ISP wrote:

I used it almost every week, knowing that I'd have to connect in PHL to get anywhere.

I would think this is a *very* off-putting proposition for many travelers. PHL is an awful dump of an airport, and regional puddle jumper operations to nearby markets like ISP tend to be the first flights canceled in the event of congestion, weather problems, etc. Why not drive a bit further to JFK or LGA and fly on a bigger plane with more amenities, while enjoying the convenience and reliability of nonstop service?

Art at ISP wrote:

Now that AA has pulled out, it leaves only business unfriendly airlines there (well Southwest is semi friendly, but doesn't provide enough comfort, plus I like pre assigned seats).

Hard not to call WN a "major airline" these days. If you set an alarm on your phone to check-in exactly 24 hours before your flight, you will undoubtedly get a great seat on WN. If you can't do so or may be busy at that time, you can always pay a nominal fee (not unlike what a carrier like AA may charge for seat assignments at the time of booking or check-in) to guarantee a good boarding position.

I guess comfort is a very subjective term. I just can't see how a US Airways Express turboprop or small American Eagle RJ on the ISP-PHL route would in any way be more comfortable than a WN 737.

Art at ISP wrote:

Frontier is a third world airline, and as far as Breeze, they really don't go enough places to build loyalty in the business travel sector.

These carriers could just be getting started. If their current offerings are supported by ISP travelers, they could certainly expand to places like Chicago and Las Vegas that have been served nonstop from ISP in the past. Even the West Coast and Europe could be possible if things go well enough. Then again, other airports like SWF and HPN could be even more attractive places to offer such services - given their convenience to a much bigger population of travelers...

Art at ISP wrote:

So what would it take for a major to try again at ISP?

If ISP didn't work for AA, DL and UA then I can't see why any such services would work now. Those carriers would rather focus their resources on higher-revenue opportunities at the big 3 primary Tri-State area airports where they have hubs anyways.

It is rather surprising that B6 has never tried ISP, though. They have tried alternate airports in the Northeast like ORH, PVD and SWF with varying degrees of success and incentives. You would think something like FLL/MCO-ISP wouldn't be too much trouble and in fact appealing to various Long Island-based FFers that may prefer a hassle-free alternative to JFK/LGA. I guess there just aren't enough people demanding such flights?

TWA772LR wrote:

I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.

Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.

SurfandSnow wrote:

If ISP didn't work for AA, DL and UA then I can't see why any such services would work now. Those carriers would rather focus their resources on higher-revenue opportunities at the big 3 primary Tri-State area airports where they have hubs anyways.

Not even JFK can work for United.

ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.

I got into an argument with people recently about ISP, they feel the terminal should be moved so there could be a direct connection to the LIRR. It makes sense for people who live near an LIRR station on Ronkonkoma line. However to expect people to travel 90 minutes from Manhattan to ISP for 1 daily frequencies FR offers doesn't make sense. ISP, SWF,TTN, ACY are in the same boat in terms of the majors.

HPN is almost within walking distance (not that you’d ever walk) to the corporate headquarters of companies like Mastercard and Pepsi. There is a lot of affluent residents as well as business travel to Westchester County. It serves both a leisure purpose (JetBlue and Breeze) as well as business demand (American, Delta and United). While LGA isn’t far, the convenience for some high value business traffic will make HPN much more attractive for legacy airlines

What bus service like what AA is doing from PHL to ABE and ACY. AA could establish connecting bus service from ISP to Kennedy or LaGuardia.

TonyClifton wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.

Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.

SurfandSnow wrote:

If ISP didn't work for AA, DL and UA then I can't see why any such services would work now. Those carriers would rather focus their resources on higher-revenue opportunities at the big 3 primary Tri-State area airports where they have hubs anyways.

Not even JFK can work for United.

ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.

To be fair, it's a single seat ride as long as you find another seat to get from the Terminal to the train station. Terminal is on the south side of the airfield, station is along the north edge - nowhere near each other.

STT757 wrote:

What bus service like what AA is doing from PHL to ABE and ACY. AA could establish connecting bus service from ISP to Kennedy or LaGuardia.

You can already ride the Long Island rail way from JFK if you use the air train. There’s no point connecting JFK and ISP when you can essentially go to any station on the LIRR from Jamaica station.

ISP is a l-o-n-g way (over 50 mi) from Manhattan by car, and from Penn Station the trip takes about 90 minutes. Why would anyone from N.Y.C. wan to schlep all the way out into central Suffolk Co. to catch a flight, when from LGA, JFK, or EWR one can fly all over the world, often nonstop?

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

HPN is almost within walking distance (not that you’d ever walk) to the corporate headquarters of companies like Mastercard and Pepsi. There is a lot of affluent residents as well as business travel to Westchester County. It serves both a leisure purpose (JetBlue and Breeze) as well as business demand (American, Delta and United). While LGA isn’t far, the convenience for some high value business traffic will make HPN much more attractive for legacy airlines

KHPN is bizjet central.

STT757 wrote:

I got into an argument with people recently about ISP, they feel the terminal should be moved so there could be a direct connection to the LIRR. It makes sense for people who live near an LIRR station on Ronkonkoma line. However to expect people to travel 90 minutes from Manhattan to ISP for 1 daily frequencies FR offers doesn't make sense. ISP, SWF,TTN, ACY are in the same boat in terms of the majors.

I don't think the people that run ISP are realistically going after that Manhattan traveler 90 minutes away but they would want to win back and retain the Long Island flyer that bleeds over to LGA and JFK because ISP doesn't have enough product to sell. I would think those passengers would be willing to pay a modest premium for better flights as well.

TonyClifton wrote:

ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.

Crap I never thought of that!

Andrew
JFK/MEM/MCI/SYR/ABQ/ retired

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

HPN is almost within walking distance (not that you’d ever walk) to the corporate headquarters of companies like Mastercard and Pepsi. There is a lot of affluent residents as well as business travel to Westchester County. It serves both a leisure purpose (JetBlue and Breeze) as well as business demand (American, Delta and United). While LGA isn’t far, the convenience for some high value business traffic will make HPN much more attractive for legacy airlines

KHPN is bizjet central.

It certainly is. Pepsi has their own hangar at HPN, but most of the staff aren’t flying business jets.

A lot of interesting comments here, but there is a population of almost 2-3 million in ISP's catchment area that would consider using it if there were better schedules, destinations, and again, more non ULCC airlines flying out of there. I would hope with the new North terminal being planned that it would be more attractive to the rest of the majors. I would hope AA would have a couple of daily CLT flights, DL to either DTW or ATL and UA to IAD and maybe ORD....but one can dream can't one?

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

HPN is almost within walking distance (not that you’d ever walk) to the corporate headquarters of companies like Mastercard and Pepsi. There is a lot of affluent residents as well as business travel to Westchester County. It serves both a leisure purpose (JetBlue and Breeze) as well as business demand (American, Delta and United). While LGA isn’t far, the convenience for some high value business traffic will make HPN much more attractive for legacy airlines

Bingo - they're rich.

Spend some time in the HPN terminal and you'll see what I mean. Our company only flies the rich, entitled vacationers to their second, third, and fourth homes in Florida. The crowd onboard is very different from either JFK or LGA. I've seen them make a new FA cry.

Our layover changed a lot (haven't overnighted there in years) but was often in Stamford, CT. I didn't realize it was such a large city with as many businesses downtown as it has. That entire area is like that, thickly settled, lots of wealth, lots of HQ'd companies, and it's a pain to drive to LGA or JFK, maybe less of a pain to drive to BDL... but HPN being right there? Sold. You can even charge a significant markup and they'll pay it. It's the SNA or SJC of the east.

Have to say - shockingly good layover every time. One of the hotels (night hotel) looked like a castle perched on a suitably windy road and impressive hill, and had salmon in the breakfast spread. The daytime hotel was a Hyatt that hated us and would put us in the rooms furthest from the elevator with a view of the dumpster, but was a few blocks from one of the best happy hours out there. We later moved to downtown Stamford which has some of the best Neapolitan pizza I've ever had and was a fun little city.
Overall, lots of places worse to spend 16-18 hours laying low. A shockingly cool spot.

Stamford wasn’t when I grew up there, but it is now! All changed after 9/11.

BDL is too far, traffic is miserable.

ISP attracted the most major airline of them all - Baltia. This made all legacies immediately run away. Flights starting any minute now.

TonyClifton wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.

Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.

SurfandSnow wrote:

If ISP didn't work for AA, DL and UA then I can't see why any such services would work now. Those carriers would rather focus their resources on higher-revenue opportunities at the big 3 primary Tri-State area airports where they have hubs anyways.

Not even JFK can work for United.

ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.

If it was actually a single seat ride, that might help ISP, but it doesn't. The JFK and EWR connections are much more seamless, integrated and quicker. The reality is that ISP may have a decent catchment, but it gets obliterated by having JFK and LGA on the same island, and then by being on the wrong side of the City for people who might drive in from other places. Meanwhile, HPN has a much more convenient location to draw from suburbs and other local states. Even SWF is better located than ISP. The important thing to realize is that very little of the traffic for any of these airports is actually NYC O&D - it's pulling from people who don't want to go to NYC (or near NYC in the case of EWR) for a flight.

N1120A wrote:

TonyClifton wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

I actually had this thought yesterday and was going to make a thread. One theory I have on ISP is that it's hard to get to from Manhattan. Yeah the LIRR goes straight to Ronkonkoma from Pen Station and it's by the airport but the terminal is on the other side of the field. Satellite imagery shows a big composting facility on the airport proper right across the street and LIRR parking lot from the station.

Me thinks it would be a lot harder to move a rail line than it actually would be to build a new airport terminal with a pedestrian bridge to the LIRR station and move the compost facility somewhere else. And then, boom! ISP just became a totally more convenient airport for NYC with a direct downtown rail access, something even LGA doesn't have and only JFK and EWR barely have. The later two involve a connection to their respective AirTrains. This would be a single public service train ride directly to an airport.


Not even JFK can work for United.

ISP possibly having the only single seat ride to Manhattan is a sad indictment of NYC transit, but hilarious.

If it was actually a single seat ride, that might help ISP, but it doesn't. The JFK and EWR connections are much more seamless, integrated and quicker. The reality is that ISP may have a decent catchment, but it gets obliterated by having JFK and LGA on the same island, and then by being on the wrong side of the City for people who might drive in from other places. Meanwhile, HPN has a much more convenient location to draw from suburbs and other local states. Even SWF is better located than ISP. The important thing to realize is that very little of the traffic for any of these airports is actually NYC O&D - it's pulling from people who don't want to go to NYC (or near NYC in the case of EWR) for a flight.

I know. It’s tongue and cheek.