All the A380s layouts I've seen have F and Y on the first deck, J and Y (sometimes Y+) upstairs.

My question is why? Having flown on the AF A380, while the J was comfortable (and standard), I would have thought the distance from the engine would make the cabin quieter and so better.

What am I missing?

Better access while boarding/deboarding? Not all airports have the third jetway for the second deck, even if they're able to handle A380 ops.

davescj wrote:

All the A380s layouts I've seen have F and Y on the first deck, J and Y (sometimes Y+) upstairs.

My question is why? Having flown on the AF A380, while the J was comfortable (and standard), I would have thought the distance from the engine would make the cabin quieter and so better.

What am I missing?

The largest A380 operator, Emirates, has F on the upper deck.

davescj wrote:

All the A380s layouts I've seen have F and Y on the first deck, J and Y (sometimes Y+) upstairs.

My question is why? Having flown on the AF A380, while the J was comfortable (and standard), I would have thought the distance from the engine would make the cabin quieter and so better.

What am I missing?

Only thing you're telling us, is that you haven't looked very thoroughly/carefully at all.

• EK - largest A380 operator, F is on upper deck.
• SQ - 2nd largest A380 operator, F is on upper deck.
• EY - largest F units on any A380, and all are on upper deck.
• LH - recently reintroduced A380, F is on upper deck.

LAX772LR wrote:

davescj wrote:

All the A380s layouts I've seen have F and Y on the first deck, J and Y (sometimes Y+) upstairs.

My question is why? Having flown on the AF A380, while the J was comfortable (and standard), I would have thought the distance from the engine would make the cabin quieter and so better.

What am I missing?

Only thing you're telling us, is that you haven't looked very thoroughly/carefully at all.

• EK - largest A380 operator, F is on upper deck.
• SQ - 2nd largest A380 operator, F is on upper deck.
• EY - largest F units on any A380, and all are on upper deck.
• LH - recently reintroduced A380, F is on upper deck.

Add NH, QR and OZ to that list.

LAX772LR wrote:

davescj wrote:

All the A380s layouts I've seen have F and Y on the first deck, J and Y (sometimes Y+) upstairs.

My question is why? Having flown on the AF A380, while the J was comfortable (and standard), I would have thought the distance from the engine would make the cabin quieter and so better.

What am I missing?

Only thing you're telling us, is that you haven't looked very thoroughly/carefully at all.

• EK - largest A380 operator, F is on upper deck.
• SQ - 2nd largest A380 operator, F is on upper deck.
• EY - largest F units on any A380, and all are on upper deck.
• LH - recently reintroduced A380, F is on upper deck.

Even Hi-Fly had their A380 with premium up top for the short time they leased it.

Personally, when I flew Business class on Emirates it was the quietest flight I can recall, especially on takeoff without the wheels rumbling underneath me.

openskies88 wrote:

Add NH, QR and OZ to that list.

Minor correction... OZ's (Asiana) A380s First Class seats are in the lower deck. I have flown on that once, seat 3K.

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Asian ... s_A380.php

If we look at all current and historical operators of the A380 we have this (ordered by first delivery date).

SQ - Lower deck, moved to upper deck during refurbishment
EK - Upper deck
QF - Lower deck
AF - Lower deck
LH - Lower deck
CZ - Lower deck
KE - Lower deck
MH - Lower deck
TG - Upper deck
BA - Lower deck
OZ - Lower deck
EY - Upper deck
QR - Upper deck
NH - Upper deck

Over time airlines tend to move to shifting first class to the upper deck because it is more efficient space wise. Thats because business seats now have different layouts, Y+ is more important than before and F cabins have shrunk.

Another big factor is first class suites require substantial reinforcements to the flooring which costs a lot and its possible airlines weren’t willing to spend the cash for slightly optimised space (maybe the numbers didn’t add up). This is why QF has not shifted F to the upper deck, whereas BA is reportedly still running the numbers.

I will admit I don’t understand how come EK had the idea before everyone and nobody followed for half a decade. But then again same thing happened with showers…

davescj wrote:

I would have thought the distance from the engine would make the cabin quieter and so better.

Considering how quiet the A380 already is, I doubt it matters where on the aircraft F is.

raylee67 wrote:

openskies88 wrote:

Add NH, QR and OZ to that list.

Minor correction... OZ's (Asiana) A380s First Class seats are in the lower deck. I have flown on that once, seat 3K.

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Asian ... s_A380.php

Ah, my mistake. Thanks!

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

I will admit I don’t understand how come EK had the idea before everyone and nobody followed for half a decade. But then again same thing happened with showers…

The forward cabin of the lower deck is substantially larger and more spacious than the forward cabin of the upper deck (30% more floorspace, a higher ceiling and sidewalls that curve out rather than in).

EK's strategy was based around the whole-of-flight experience (bar, showers, chauffeur transfers etc) whereas other early operators like SQ and QF were more focused on the spaciousness of the seats themselves (EK had 14x seats upstairs, QF had 14x in the much larger lower deck cabin and SQ only has 12x on the lower deck).

EKs 2 class A380 have a huge lavatory for Economy class on the front part of the upper deck, its where they usually have the shower for firstclass

The main deck is most efficient for denser passenger seating configurations. The "higher level" upper deck has a more quiet feel and at both sides of the stairs areas and room for airlines to "play" with for first class passengers: Showers, lounges, huge bathrooms and even a private double bed cabin (Etihad). This is why in general most airlines have their first class up there.

At the front of upper deck there is some space with no window.
Airline could utilise the space for premium pax, such as Residence for EY and on board shower for EK.

I just had a look at aeroLOPA (which has the best seat maps, because they're all to scale and also show where the windows, blanked out windows etc are) and found...

ANA - F is on the Upper Deck - https://www.aerolopa.com/nh-388

Asiana - no F, but J is both at the front upstairs and downstairs - https://www.aerolopa.com/oz-388

British Airways - F is on the Lower Deck - https://www.aerolopa.com/ba-type-38a

Emirates - F is on the Upper Deck, they also have various different configs - https://www.aerolopa.com/ek-airbus-a380-gallery

Etihad - F is on the Upper Deck (kinda cool to see how spacious The Residence actually is too!) - https://www.aerolopa.com/ey-388

Korean Air - F is on the Lower Deck - https://www.aerolopa.com/ke-388

Lufthansa - F is on the Upper Deck - https://www.aerolopa.com/lh-388

Qantas - F is on the Lower Deck - https://www.aerolopa.com/qf-388

Qatar Airways - F is on the Upper Deck - https://www.aerolopa.com/qr-airbus-a380

Singapore Airlines - F is on the Upper Deck - https://www.aerolopa.com/sq-388

I've flown in F on the lower deck before on British Airways and it was completely fine. I could see the cockpit door from my seat, so that was something different. Never flown F upstairs, but will be doing that with QR next year. Flown upstairs on the A380 a few times and it's quite nice.

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

If we look at all current and historical operators of the A380 we have this (ordered by first delivery date).

SQ - Lower deck, moved to upper deck during refurbishment
EK - Upper deck
QF - Lower deck
AF - Lower deck
LH - Lower deck
CZ - Lower deck
KE - Lower deck
MH - Lower deck
TG - Upper deck
BA - Lower deck
OZ - Lower deck
EY - Upper deck
QR - Upper deck
NH - Upper deck

Over time airlines tend to move to shifting first class to the upper deck because it is more efficient space wise. Thats because business seats now have different layouts, Y+ is more important than before and F cabins have shrunk.

Another big factor is first class suites require substantial reinforcements to the flooring which costs a lot and its possible airlines weren’t willing to spend the cash for slightly optimised space (maybe the numbers didn’t add up). This is why QF has not shifted F to the upper deck, whereas BA is reportedly still running the numbers.

I will admit I don’t understand how come EK had the idea before everyone and nobody followed for half a decade. But then again same thing happened with showers…

As somebody who was familiar with the business back then, EK was almost the creator of the A380 as a profitable tool. They are still the only ones who fully utilized it as a tool for their regional growth. It became a competitive advantage. Extremely impressive. I was a huge skeptic for many years. But they discovered something.

davescj wrote:

All the A380s layouts I've seen have F and Y on the first deck, J and Y (sometimes Y+) upstairs.

My question is why? Having flown on the AF A380, while the J was comfortable (and standard), I would have thought the distance from the engine would make the cabin quieter and so better.

What am I missing?

Others have mentioned the 3rd jetway issue, not at all airports. Many airlines put F on the main level for the same reasons the Executive suite in most skyscrapers isn't on the top floor (the executives would have to change elevators, taking more time). If there was no 3rd upper jetway, more luxury oriented, F pax would have to carry roller bags, etc. up stairs. Also, the lower deck is wider, meaning a 1-2-1 config could be the same arrangement as J upstairs, but offer a wider seat.

These were the same factors on the 747. Most airlines put J upstairs and F in the nose, although there was a little extra prestige to sitting in the nose. Very private space, with no through foot traffic.

Based on my experience, I have observed that both the upper deck and the area forward of doors 2 on the main deck have comparable noise levels. However, the main deck could be potentially quieter. In addition to this, there is more usable space available for first-class passengers on the main deck due to cabin width and distance between doors, which translates to either more seats, larger seats, etc.

davescj wrote:

I would have thought the distance from the engine would make the cabin quieter and so better.

Noise from the engines may contribute to cabin noise during takeoff and climb, but during cruise, i.e. during most of the flight, engine noise contributes close to zero. It is boundary layer noise contributing by far the most. And that tends to be higher in the front of the cabin. But there are so many other factors to it. Even the cabin layout has some effect. Less densely furnished cabin classes tend to be noisier, simply because they have less absorption by seat cushions and passengers' cloths.


Gruß, masi1157

Fuling wrote:

davescj wrote:

I would have thought the distance from the engine would make the cabin quieter and so better.

Considering how quiet the A380 already is, I doubt it matters where on the aircraft F is.

LH added extra acoustic insulation around the F cabin (in the upper deck) to make it even quieter.

https://www.austrianwings.info/2010/05/ ... ansa-a380/ [German]

Sound-insulating partition curtains to the rest of the cabin, special outer skin insulation and a carpet with impact sound damping ensure the quietest First Class in the world.

mxaxai wrote:

Sound-insulating partition curtains to the rest of the cabin…

No see-through mesh curtains for Lufthansa!

masi1157 wrote:

[Noise from the engines may contribute to cabin noise during takeoff and climb, but during cruise, i.e. during most of the flight, engine noise contributes close to zero. It is boundary layer noise contributing by far the most. And that tends to be higher in the front of the cabin. But there are so many other factors to it...

In the book "Widebody", the author notes that when Joe Sutter would ride in a 747 he would be in the second row - the quietest part of the airplane.

Pontiac wrote:

In the book "Widebody", the author notes that when Joe Sutter would ride in a 747 he would be in the second row - the quietest part of the airplane.

I can't say much about B747 or Joe Sutter. This is an A380 thread.


Gruß, masi1157

questions wrote:

mxaxai wrote:

Sound-insulating partition curtains to the rest of the cabin…

No see-through mesh curtains for Lufthansa!

Nor on Qatar Airways.



The same curtains are used for F as are used here in their A380 bar.