I read in another post that 2 out of three south african men think they can land a plane. Do you think that you could?

[Edited 2004-05-14 04:01:57]

[Edited 2004-05-14 04:04:38]

I *know* for a fact I could. I've done it successfully in both 727 and 737 level "D" simulators.

I am naive enough to think i could under perfect conditions but i doubt it.

Landing a plane is not hard. Its doing it well that's the challenge!!!

I could probably draw the layout of the 777, 737, and A320 cockpits, I could probably locate the major instruments and switches... but actually working the stick and pedals, using an ILS approach, handling the radios... nooo way

Come one now.. We've all had the dream (or daydream) that we found ourselves in a situation like in the movie AIRPLANE!. The flight crew would be rendered incapacitated by bad fish or something. You volunteer to land the plane because your are more capable than everyone else, for you have FS2004 that you play everyday. You make a flawless approach and a grease landing. You then 'offer' to taxi the jet to a gate, instead of leaving it on the runway. The airline, whose ass you saved, would then offer to put you through pilot training and then hire you to fly an aircraft of your choice. You live happily ever after..  

I think I may be able to land an aircraft. I certainly wouldn't try to perform a complete landing on the first pass. Hopefully, I'd have time to get the feel of the airplane first. Would it be smooth? Probably not.

Actually, until about the outer marker, you could get away with twisting the auto-pilot knobs for the most part. Depending on the weather and how the auto-pilot is decked out, you can actually fly much of the ILS approach on the auto-pilot as well. It's the flare that will be a pain in the ass!

With me and my superior FS skills, I can answer this question with an unqualified.....



















...NO!  

MD11LuxuryLinr........LOL!!!

I had the same dream! lol. Then after u land a "greaser" the company CEO and chief pilot would promise you a pilot postion when u qualify and your on every Front Page newspaper and Jay Leno would be wanting to book you then all of a sudden your a chick magnet. Yeah I know, I was really bored.

Sure I could.. I am not sure it would be very pretty though or that I would live to tell about it. But if I did get it on the ground in one piece at least I know where the brakes and thrust reverse are to get it to stop. I think I would be more comfortable frankly with making one takeoff.  

hmm,maybe.if i really did hafta land say an a330 at IAD than if i do,ill most likely do damage to the landing gear(not from landing,but from high speed),the flaps,and f**k the engines until they fly off the pylons.I might take a chuck of the runway out too 

Judging by how often people try to kill me when learning how to land...no, a non-pilot can not land an airplane.

I'd like to think that I could, but in reality I'm sure I couldn't.

Lets see, I have landed a Cessna 172. Not to hard, fairly forgiving.

That was the real world, in the world of Flight Sim, where I do all of my flying now, I doubt my flying skills would land anything bigger than a Cessna 172. I think I am 747 pilot, but that runway seems so small!

N757KW

Well an smaller single engine plane with 4,500Ft or more of runway. yea I think so. A 777 with 8,000ft Hold on to your hats and prey. Hey but If I am the best hope they got then go for it. But I sure ATC would try to teach me how to do autoland.

"...2 out of three south african men think they can land a plane."

Those guys are on crack. Land it or simply make a touchdown they can walk away from? Even if one was a Microsoft flight sim master and had a few turns in a level D sim, it's not quite the same as the real deal. Esp in weather. A sim is a sim no matter how realistic it is. There are always slight differences that just can't be programmed. The one I did my airline training in was pretty close, but the real thing does feel a bit different. Computers can't simulate 'flying by the seat of your pants', which they obviously cannot do if they have never even done that before. Now if they were told how to use the autoland...no problem.

disclaimer: my level D sim landings were with a 15 knot xwind - nothing terribly demanding. I should have added that in any significant weather my confidence would be decidedly less  

[Edited 2004-05-14 05:19:56]

I think i could land a plane. And yes, ive dreamed of being in situations in which somehow the pilots were gone and they needed someone to land the thing. Then, i takeover, communicate with ATC, and create a perfect landing. In fact, i taxi to the gate, and even park at the terminal.

Then, im offered jobs by airlines across the USA for my amazing feat. My name is broadcasted across the world. Im hired by, hmm, example, Singapore Airlines and selected to fly their Airbus A340-500.

LOL, yes, that would be good, but the chances of that happening are 10x slimmer than winning the lottery.

Hey, its always possible though.

Not going to brag about any type of FS experience or anything but Im pretty sure i can land a plane based on FS knowledge, im probably about 90% confident i can, 50% a good landing too.

Has a passenger ever landed an aircraft? Seems like it could be possible on small charter prop flights that only have one pilot but i doubt it.

Oh, I would land it alright! I would land it here, there and everywhere. Is it me or does this post read like Dr. Suess article?

Actually, I think there is a picture of the last time I landed a plane. Here it is:

View Large View Medium

Photo © PEDRO PACHECO(SJU AVIATION PHOTOGRAPHY)

The very thought scares the s**t out of me - Yes I have FS2004 and can land a 747-400 on the Meigs airstrip and still have half a runway left   but the real thing absolutely no way. I would be the one cowering in the rear lavatory confessing every sin I ever committed and begging for a quick and painless demise.

I am, or I should say was, a licensed pilot and I could probably still land a single engine piston without any deaths, but I'd rather not have to prove it. Maybe even a small twin such as a 310 or Apache.

As for large twins or turbines, you would be able to get the aircraft on the ground. But you'd most likely have no need for a crematorium.

I'm a commercially licensed pilot with 100+ twin engine hours on a Beech Baron.

I recently got a shot on the Dash8 sim at Downsview Toronto.....guess what??

ballooned the damn thing on the flare, couldn't recover and then the screens went red.
This was even with the second pilot beside me working gear, flap, power levers. All I did was follow flight director, glide slope and localiser.

I seriously doubt a non-pilot can pull that off all on their own.....but some people do break the mould from time to time.

OUCH. Me thinks that's how the S. Africans might fair as well.

The flying pilot was a new hire who had just gotten out of 8 weeks of ATR training, including about 10 days of sim (the usual), and actual aircraft training. It's very challenging to get to the line. This guy had to have had 1500 flight hours to get an interview, but the last few classes average flight times have been much more than that. All it takes is one bad flare.....(as the witness reports say anyway.)

Sure, In flight Simulator I can but finding the correct switches and actually using the pedels and not a real joy stick. I would probably end up like that American ATR, and that is in perfect weather. 

Hmm...

If I was forced to do so, I'd get ATC to tell me which autopilot knobs to turn. I wouldn't want to risk hundreds of lives by hand-flying the plane all the way down trying to look cool. I'd be able to work the rudimentary flight controls to an extent, but I won't guarantee that the flare will be very comfortable. Once on the ground, I'd get the reversers and such deployed and stand on the brakes.

The actual flight wouldn't be that bad, but the thing I'd be totally lost on would be starting one of these jets. Cross-bleed valves, ignition and fuel timing, electric busses, etc. are above my head at this point. I guess if I try every switch imaginable, I might succeed in blowing an engine up before succesfully getting it to reach a stable speed.

All in all, I'm not sure. Maybe I'll get to experience some time in a commercial simulator and find out.

-N243NW  

I read in another post that 2 out of three south african men think they can land a plane. Do you think that you could?

That is the beauty of the autolanding system. You don't actually need a pilot to land the airplane. So long as you can set everything up, and work out how to pull off the thrust levers, everything will be just fine.

I must admit that on a few occasions, the autolanding system has outperformed my manual landings...

I am quite sure that if stuck at the controls of a Cessna 172, I would be able to land it.

I landed Cessnas and Mooneys before, but nothing to big. If I had to pilot a 737 to the ground and land, I'm pretty sure I can do it. But hey, flightsim is different than the real thing!

MD11...pretty much took my thunder away! Yeah, I've had that same thought, and exchanging quotes with ATC from "Airplane" to take the edge off the situation. I'd definitely ask for clearance from Clarence...

For small planes, like Cessna's, etc...it wouldn't be as difficult, but still VERY rough, certainly not one I couuld walk away from. My dad was a private pilot for a number of years, based out of San Carlos, CA. My mom actually took a ground school class so that she knew enough about the plane and flying to give her a remote (and I emphasize remote) chance.

For a multi-engine plane right on up to a 744/A340...forget it. Sure, I might know what this guage says or that lever does, but in a tense situation (whatever the factors are involved) then I would just focus on doing what I could to get the aircraft away from a major city and other populated areas, and hope for the best. It would depend even more so on the altitude/attitude of the aircraft, i.e. UA93...if your airspeed is off the chart and you're damn near inverted and four terrorist maniacs are going apeshit killing people or whatever, forget it.

Key to anything would be remaining calm to the best of your ability to at least think for just a second to get a grasp of the situation and make quick decisions. Anything short of that? No way.

Good topic.

Actually I don't THINK i can land an aircraft... I KNOW it  
As I'm a student pilot I should be able to land an aircraft, shouldn't I?    

regards, Florian

Ah yes, I have thought about this many times almost exactly like others in this thread have mentioned. Except, I'm not sure I'd go as far as thinking, or expecting after such a feat that an airline would be impressed and hire me as a pilot. Come on guys. But the thought of successfully landing an airliner (successfully meaning everyone survives regardless of the final state of the aircraft LOL) due to both pilots somehow being incapacitated has casually entered my mind many times.

Regardless of whether or not I could realistically land plane like that, if its the last resort, I'd say my chances of doing so would be a heck of a lot better than not stepping up to try. With my MS flight sim experience over the years, and my real-life training in a Cessna 172, I'd say that if I was in a life or death situation, it would be better to go out trying. Someone mentioned above about the responsibility of everyone on board...well if both pilots are unable to fly the aircraft, you are all basically screwed anyway. So, just giving it a try based on whatever knowledge and experience you have definitely would not make the situation any worse, and would not make the chances of coming out alive any less.

I would definitely need to be in contact with ATC, and I would need someone to step up and be my F/O to help me with things such as looking up limits and airspeeds...stuff like that.

So, that's what I think about it.  

Don't forget this is a.net here. We can not only safely land huuuuge planes, we can also
-design planes better than A and B together
-manage the fleet better than all airlines together
-manage airports better than all airport managers
-control airspace better than ATC
-design better liveries than all airlines out there
-...

heck, we can just do anything better. Every airline needs one of us geeks.
Only problem: not enough airlines to give a job to everyone out here.

But this already being solved:
We also can startup airlines better than everyone in history. So the job problem is almost solved.

Aren't we a great community of pure intelligence and brilliance? Aren't we so pure and innocent and humble? Aren't we exactly aviation need the most?
Am I sarcastic?

Answer only one question with yes and I will close my case...

I am not exactly a pilot, but am a private pilot..... so I don't know if my say counts....

Anyways I think that except for T-storms, I could land a plane given that it's not a friggin huje jet, who is just 3-400 A.G.L. some place, where no arprt. is nearby, and the engines have quit !!

weather is good!  

Agreed with Ftrguy that how to do it well is difficult.

I have read some handbooks for private pilot and noted that the contents for landing are not particularly difficult. So, someone might think landing well is not difficult.

However, in actual flights, so many unpredicted factors exist, which a non-pilot can never thought of. Or even he knows these factors exist, he cannot overcome these factors in practical.

I could definitely get the plane on the ground.

Getting it on the ground in one piece is the problem.  

jeremy

[Edited 2004-05-14 07:29:06]

Im pretty sure i can land a plane based on FS knowledge, im probably about 90% confident i can, 50% a good landing too. - Warszawa

Before I begin let me mention that this is not directed toward Warszawa. I'm merely using his comment as an example.

Microsoft is good but compared to the real deal it's not even close. While it may help someone in locating the radios, autopilot etc. to set the autoland, if a person were to use their "superior" FS skills to land any transport size aircraft manually they'd be f***ed!

Its like asking if South Africans if they can bobsled in the Winter Olympic games and place at least a bronze medal. LOL! (I apologize but no offense to anyone....)

As a flight instructor who routinely works with people who have no prior flight experience, I believe the chances of a non-pilot with zero actual flight experience landing an airplane without seriously injuring themselves and others is pretty slim.

It's very rare for a person to be able to land even a simple airplane, like a cessna 172 on their first try without tons of help from an instructor. In a large, multi-engine, turbine aircraft, the chances of survival are just not very good. If the person in question has some flight sim time, that will help with the enroute and approach phases, but I doubt that the airplane will stay on the runway and there would likely be severe airframe damage due to improper roundout and flare techniques. The aircraft would likely be stalled above the runway or be forced down at an airspeed much too high in a nose low attitude. Either way, the results would not be pretty.

Can do good landing on Simulator. Never tried a real plane, who knows may be would succeed with a real landing.

I think I MIGHT be able to in a non-wide body a/c. I have been in both the 744 & 772 simulators for UA and had no issues but I know for a fact that I would have a b---- of a time in real life. I have been at the actual controls of a Citation X and had no issues at all but sure as hell didn't try to land it. Give me the keys to a 152/172 and I land it in 20mph. cross winds, at night, with one eye closed(and no brain b/c that would be stupid).

I sit back and laugh at those that say b/c they have FS2004 they can master any a/c. Well the truth of the matter is the only thing you can master is the pause and yaw button. You don't even need a joystick to "master" the art of landing a 777. HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA you wish. I too have had the dream of landing an a/c and coming to the rescue but the fact of the matter is that, well, I don't think I'd do a good job and I'm a 56hr. PPL student who also has a father who is a 777 capt. and during pre-9/11 rode Jumpseat all the time.

The reason that pilots get paid to do what they do is b/c they do it well and b/c they are so professional in what they do (though some would think differently) there will never be a time when a member of the "crowd" will be needed to land an a/c. Maybe assist in other issues but never landing let alone take off/cruise/descent........... ALL YOU COMPUTER FREAKS GET OVER IT YOU HAVE NO CHANCE AT THIS ONE!!!!!!And for those that take their passion to the runway I'd question (I ? myself about what I would do in the event of an emergency when at the controls of my own a/c let alone a large commercial jet) how much you know about what to do in the event of an emergency.


UA777222

I have also made many successful landing on MFS'04. But a smooth landing in a simulator is worth about as much as life raft in the Sahara.

Could I, as a non-pilot, land a plane in real life? Lets hope we never have to find out.

I think the trick is remembering that every aircraft flies for the same reasons.

Take it back to basics - aviate, navigate, communicate - and reduce things to the fundamentals: height, airspeed, direction.

Stick with these and you'd have a fair chance of bringing it down manually. You might even get it to stay in one piece.

Like they say, after a good landing you can walk away - after a great landing, you can use the aeroplane again!

Of course I can ! I have FS2000, and if I can do it there I can do it anywhere... right ?

Inbound,

Now you know why the Dash-8s are called Crash-8s!  


As for myself, I can say surely that I would not be able to land a commercial airliner (hopefully I will never have to, unless I am rated on the type   ). The largest aircraft that I have ever piloted was a C185F, and even though I have spent hundreds of hours infront of MSFS, it was entirely different. Sure, I knew what all the instruments ment and how they worked, but the "feel" of the aircraft was something waaay different than the C182 in MS crash simulator.
The only way that a non pilot/non type rated pilot could/should bring down a airliner would be using autoland, but hopefully no one here will ever have to experience that...

Microsoft is good but compared to the real deal it's not even close. While it may help someone in locating the radios, autopilot etc. to set the autoland, if a person were to use their "superior" FS skills to land any transport size aircraft manually they'd be f***ed!

As long as you use MS Flight Simulator correctly and you do every procedure as you really would in real life, it could be a great learning tool and a wonderful way to practice procedures. My flight instructor has always said that if I am going to fly the Cessna 172, I better do it by the books, going through every procedure as I would in the real thing or else it's of no use to me. With that said, there are some wonderful payware add-ons for MS flight sim that recreate say, a 737 experience just about as close as you can get so that you cannot get the plane to start up or take-off unless it is done correctly. The key here is, procedure. As far as physically flying the aircraft, and getting a true feel for it, it will NEVER happen on a computer simulator. Like I said there are some truly wonderful recreations of aircraft that are created down to the smallest detail possible and learning how to use these, you can obtain a good idea of what's going on.

I sit back and laugh at those that say b/c they have FS2004 they can master any a/c.

Again, speaking for myself here, I never said I could use FS2004 as a means to master a real aircraft. I realize it is far from the real thing. However, procedures, and cockpit management CAN be achieved on FS2004 and this coming from some pilots I have spoken to who have given FS2004 a try.

Two major keys to flying are the use of a checklist, and flying by the numbers (airspeeds etc.). Both are things that a flight simulator can hit on rather well.

ALL YOU COMPUTER FREAKS GET OVER IT YOU HAVE NO CHANCE AT THIS ONE!!!!!!

First of all, it's a DREAM!! Something that when bored, crosses my mind...a WHAT IF...I'm not sitting around waiting for that day to come!

I know the original question posted was about a non-pilot trying this so I guess technically, that rules me out. But using a computer simulator, and real-life private pilot training, one can learn and become familiar with far more than the simple basics of flight which can be applied to this "dream".

Just to clarify my original statement:
What I meant was with my procedural knowledge obtained by FS2004 added with my real-life flight training experience, I would definitely think about giving it a shot and be comfortable...remember, the thing here is could we get the plane on the ground, and live to tell about it. I'm confident with my current knowledge, I could POSSIBLY do it. However, that confidence could, and probably would go right out the window at first instant I take the controls of an airliner if I were to find myself in that position.

Dang I am flying for the most idiotic airline company in the world!

Instead of giving all the pilots a CD of FS 2004,the menagement spends millions of dollars for pilot training.

I feel very embarrassed that I required ground schools,40 hours of flight simulator training and 100 hours of supervised line training to land a 737.

I was somewhat proud of myself passing all the exams and checkrides all at first try but now I see the world is full of people who can do it   without any training but just by the help of a computer game.



[Edited 2004-05-14 12:19:12]

It's nice how much trust most of you guys have in ATC, but honestly, if one of my aircraft would tell me that he's in need for assistance for the pilots are poisoned and he with his Microsoft Flight Simulator experience has to do the job now I'd be screaming for anyone with a pilots license around me. I'm a controller, not a pilot, I have no clue at all how to control or even land such a thing. Sure, we've studied it all, instrument panels, aircraft controls, engine performance, done some theoretical exams on that but do you think I could remember that in detail and then even apply in such a case? No way!
Sure, we have the phones and numbers and we'd be calling wildly to get someone on the phone who is an instructor on that type of aircraft for example, but even in the ideal case it would take a couple of minutes to get hold of someone like that. No clue how to continue when the aircraft needs to be transferred to the Lower Airspace Control Unit.
So all I do is pray that it doesn't happen!

Of course I could land the plane - there is even a technical acronym for my type of landing: CFIT.

I am not a certified pilot yet and I have landed a 734 simluator and also a 172 a few times. so yes I can