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SUPRAZACHAIR
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:27 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 8:12 am

I was thinking about this on my flight back from SNA-SEA last night. What I decided is that while I am a Private Pilot, I would hope to god there's someone else on board with some substantial multi turbine experience. I think I'd be a great candidate to sit in the right seat and do some of the FO duties. I'm much more confident in my radio/flap/gear skills than in my non-existent 737 flying skills.

I fear some of you FSers becoming pilots. Some of you have what we call a "dangerous attitude": Macho-ism. I'd bet a burger and fries none of you could do it without catastrophic results.

-Zach <~A.net bubble burster
 
EMBTucano
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:34 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 8:27 am

Hum, let me see...

Darn it, I just crashed a 737 landing in the FS...
---- Use GNU/LINUX and be free! ----
 
Aviationhack
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 10:52 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 8:40 am

The toughest part for me would be not being able to pause as i run for my fourth beer of the flight  Smile
 
usair320
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RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 10:30 am

Ive done plenty of 734/773/744 landings on FS 2002 Plus as a student real life landings in a cessna 152. so I guess I could.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 10:47 am

I think if you can land a level D sim then you probly can land a real airplane, rember you may get type rated by flying level D Sims having never touched the airplane untell your IOE. But on the other hand most people that get to screw around in sims have some body with a good amount of knowledge( sim instructor or pilot) operating the sim to help you.

No one who goes to "screw around" in the sims is ever presented with the challenges of a type rating ride, nor are they acclimated with the systems--something of undeniable importance. If you don't know the systems and how you work, it's going to take you a significant amount of time to set up the aircraft for landing. I mean, the airline guys have their intensive type training and then LOFT...not nearly the same as a 1-hour futz around the berry patch in a sim.

I got a chance to take a C-421 across colorado last night and I got behind the airplane and felt like a idiot, and I have a damn multi engine rating, let alone somebody with no exsperience in any kind of a airplane let alone a 744.

Let's make an example out of this to the rest of our enthusiast A.netters.

1) Don't bite off more than you can chew airplane-wise. You may be certified, but that has nothing to do with qualifications. There's a reason insurance carriers go bonkers when low-time pilots step into multiengine aircraft, not to mention a large cabin-class twin. I took a 300-hour private pilot, used to aircraft like Cherokee 140's and C172's, flying in my 182 one day and he freaked out. Fly smart.

2) Whenever flying a new type, no matter how mundane the difference (ie 152 to 172, 172 to 182, etc), have the intelligence to take someone else along with you. Not saying you didn't, just make sure.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
HaveBlue
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RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 10:55 am

SQ452 said "It is not that hard to land a plane to be honest. I do it in flightsim numerous times successfully.."

You've got to be kidding me. It's almost incredible the ignorance mixed with arrogance. It IS difficult to land a plane in real life. I would bet a years salary none of these FS types could put a Cessna down on the first try with no other training than their FS stuff and do it with out lumping up bad and scared as hell. Without winds its a bit easier, but there is almost ALWAYS wind. And turbulence. You ever seen videos of airliners bouncing around on final, going around, bouncing hard, crabbing and slipping and all that? That's professionals with thousands of hours earning their money by fighting all the forces and getting that plane down safely. But... It is not that hard to land a plane to be honest? Phew. I fly Cessnas and have tons of stick time in helicopters and though I would rather take a shot at it than the average layman if the situation arose, if it wasn't a 30 mile final to the dry lake beds at Edwards I think we'd be screwed. There is a reason they get paid the big bucks folks.
 
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asuflyer05
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RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 11:01 am

We've all had the dream...

WOW I'm not alone. It's like an awakening.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
HaveBlue
Posts: 2176
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RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 11:07 am

Asuflyer05, yes that is the amazing thing. Ever since I started flying the same thing occurred to me, in the 'what if' category. Very entertaining to think how that may play out and how you'd handle it. You like to think that having a PPL would give you a fair shot, but I'm not so sure.

On my previous post, it was the 'its not that hard to land a plane because I can do it in FS' that got me riled up. Thinking you can pull it off is one thing, saying it aint hard comes from never having had to do anything close.

 
beechnut
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 11:19 am

At least for light aircraft, every plane behaves differently on landing. I migrated from Cessnas, to the Piper PA28, to the Beech C23 which I now own and fly. Each aircraft took time to figure out the idiosyncracies, to get it on the ground *gracefully*. So far, in spite of its reputation of biting on landing at forward CofG, the Beech has proved to be the easiest and most consistent, *once* you master it.

I've spent real time in the cockpit of Dash 8s, DC9s and 737. The perspective out the window from a jet is very different: nose high on final (if it is a model with leading-edge slats), and things happen MUCH faster at 140 knots than at 80 knots.

I really doubt the average non-pilot, South African or otherwise, could land a jetliner in one-piece. Land 5 knots over Vref+gust factor, and it's a whole other ball game. Come in too slow, and watch the sink rate shoot up. Most would, in such a situation, be inclined to raise the nose to avoid hitting the ground too hard, making matters worse. Or firewall the throttles, only to see the speed shoot up too fast; before you know it you're overcontrolling it until you lose it. Jetliners require PRECISION to fly. That only comes with practise. Even a GA aircraft: come in 10 knots fast, bounce, and the next thing you know, you're in a porpoise that gets worse, breaks off the nose wheel, prop strike, etc. Probably one that you can walk away from but...

We can all dream. Some dream that the airline would give us a pilot job after a successful landing after the crew becomes incapacitated. I dream that the (all young female) flight attendants would be SOOO grateful for saving their lives, that they'd do ANYTHING to thank me!  Wink/being sarcastic

Mike
C-GTLM
 
JrMafia90
Posts: 205
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RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 11:20 am

I think I could. I played Microsoft Flight Simulator so many times.
 
CruzinAltitude
Posts: 407
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RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Sun May 16, 2004 9:09 pm

Let me begin by saying that I don't think I could "Land" an airliner. But if the billion to one odds situation came up, I'm probably far more qualified then any other passenger on the plane would be, so Id atleast give it a shot.

My thinking is this, I have flown plenty of hours on MS2k2 (more than enough to understand BASIC flight controls, i.e. throttle, flaps, landing gear, rudder pedals) and done a couple of hours of flight instruction. With that experience I think I could get an airliner to the ground without dropping out of the sky. The problem is, in fear of stalling, Im sure I would keep my airspeed way to high to "land" so the end result would look like the United DC10 that was crash landed in 89 (I think it was 89). I guess that would keep me out of the running for an airline job when all is said and done. Oh, and the other factor, Im not so sure I would be macho enough to try finding an airport in the middle of a city to try to drop in on. Give me the biggest, flattest, least populated area possible, that's what I would try for.

My question for the airline pilots responding to this thread, does this scenario seem more likely and possible than a non pilot saying they could stick a landing?
 
nycfuturepilot
Topic Author
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RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 2:48 am

Cruzin, that is exactly how I feel
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
AirplanePeanut
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 2:52 am

I could lie, But the answer is no. With ATC Help, Idk!

But I am going to train for a PP License soon.




Bobby
..
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4723
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 3:22 am

Let me begin by saying that I don't think I could "Land" an airliner. But if the billion to one odds situation came up, I'm probably far more qualified then any other passenger on the plane would be, so Id atleast give it a shot.

My thinking is this, I have flown plenty of hours on MS2k2 (more than enough to understand BASIC flight controls, i.e. throttle, flaps, landing gear, rudder pedals) and done a couple of hours of flight instruction. With that experience I think I could get an airliner to the ground without dropping out of the sky. The problem is, in fear of stalling, Im sure I would keep my airspeed way to high to "land" so the end result would look like the United DC10 that was crash landed in 89 (I think it was 89). I guess that would keep me out of the running for an airline job when all is said and done. Oh, and the other factor, Im not so sure I would be macho enough to try finding an airport in the middle of a city to try to drop in on. Give me the biggest, flattest, least populated area possible, that's what I would try for.

My question for the airline pilots responding to this thread, does this scenario seem more likely and possible than a non pilot saying they could stick a landing?


This just about sums it up. Now, there are clearly people responding to this thread that has not read through every reply and are coming on here saying they could do it easily simply because they play MS Flight Sim. However, there are many of us that NEVER said we could master a plane, or even be successful at getting everyone down safely in that situation, but have stated we would give it a try based on the fact we would probably have a better CHANCE at it than the layperson on that flight.

It bothers me that just because flight sim is even mentioned, all credibility goes straight out the window. My dream is to fly for the airlines someday and I am currently in the process of making that dream come true. Just because I play Flight Sim does not mean that I can never be a real pilot. The only reasons I am not a real 737 pilot are simple. One, Im not old enough to fly for any airlines, and two, I simply don't have the real time or training YET. I'm still at the bottom working my way up and I still have a very long road ahead. Flight sim not only allows for practice in procedures during my real training, but it also lets me have fun and fly aircraft that I cannot fly in real life...yet...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3468
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:44 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 3:36 am

No one said Flight Sim is bad, but there are two very important things to remember:

1) "As real as it gets" is still not nearly real enough to accurately depict the feel of flying.

2) Perhaps more importantly, flying FS alone can lead to some serious bad habits in the actual airplane, as you don't have an active CFI sitting with you to monitor your progress.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
dc-10 levo
Posts: 3376
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:22 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 4:47 am

I could easily land a plane! NOT! I very much doubt I could land it by myself. I mean FS is "As real as it gets" for me.

DC-10
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 4:53 am

I've actually done it, once.
Granted there was an instructor sitting next to me with his hands hovering over the controls to take over in case I was about to mess up but I didn't.

Granted it was a C172M, but it was the first time I'd ever taken the controls of a real aircraft while the engine was turning.
Guess the hundreds of simulated hours are good for something.

Would I take the controls of anything larger without supervision?
Certainly not unless there were a dire emergency which would mean my certain death if I didn't as doing it would under those conditions not reduce my likelihood of survival.
Would I be able to get it on the ground more or less in one piece under those conditions?
Unlikely unless maybe if the aircraft was in good working condition and it was a type I have extensive experience on in flightsim so I at least know what the major controls and gauges do.
Under those conditions I MAY be able to get it on the ground if there's someone out there to talk me through the checklists, but brace for impact  Smile
I wish I were flying
 
Matt27
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:53 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 5:01 am

Well, give me good visibility and calm winds and I will give it a try Big grin
I have at least done it on MSFSIM02/04 many times...
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
pilot kaz
Posts: 4591
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:07 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 5:04 am

iv done it, but only in a 2 seater, but i simu;late alot, i cant be that hard to land a 737 or somethin i think i could do it
-
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: Flight Simulator Aircraft

Mon May 17, 2004 6:47 am

I can do it. I am awesome on FS2004.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
nwa330tony
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:34 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 7:27 am

Having spent plenty of time in AirCanada A320sims I think yes for a32x series
maybe even an A330 but any other type noway i wont even attempt to ill be back in my seat assuming crash position like the rest lol
 
Jetfixer75
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 2:21 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 7:38 am

I've flown and landed a 737 full motion simulator at SEA, but landing the real thing?? I could probably fly it all the way to the crash site.
 
AirEMS
Posts: 625
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 6:34 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 7:52 am

Well lets see here A) Why are the pilots no longer able to fly the Aircraft? B) Is there anything major wrong with the aircraft i.e. A missing engine... Missing side of cabin or missing a wing?? C) is the radio working? And D) is there someone who can talk me down on the hopefully working radio after that then I would have a go at it  Nuts oh and here is the lovely we have started our decent speech I would give


"Ladies and Gentlemen we have started our decent into (insert name of airport here) now I don't know quite yet how to stop said decent but this nice man on the other end of the radio named Jim thinks that we have a 1 in 1000000000 shot of making this landing as long as I find the gear lever and and our wings and tail stay attached to the aircraft I have instructed the flight attendants to run wildly up and down the cabin screaming that we are all going to die so you don't have to. We should be on the ground or firmly attached to it here soon so please return your seat backs and tray tables to the full and upright position and make sure your seatbelts are cutting off the circulation to your legs and thank you for flying (insert airline name here)"

What ya think??




and yet again I think I am warped from the job I do in the fact my what if senario includes what happens if someone starts having a seziure / chest pain / passes out etc.. while we are flying  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

[Edited 2004-05-17 00:57:57]

[Edited 2004-05-17 00:58:55]
If Your Dying Were Flying
 
BritPilot777
Posts: 998
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:05 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 7:59 am

This was one hell of a post! Hat off to you Nycfuturepilot!!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

My Answer..... Drum Roll Please..... Yes, I think I could. I know I have flying experience and this was directed to NON Pilots, but at the end of the day, The basics of flying apply to every aircraft in the world. They all take off for the same reason, they all stay in the air for the same reason, they all descend for the same reason, Flying is Flying.
The Difference between a C172 and a 777 is the systems. You, in charge on a aircraft, in an emergency situation, Will not be trying to figure out how to get the hydraulic pressure up on the screen or even figure out Fuel Flow.

To land a simple plane, you drop the flaps, you drop the gear, you land VFR onto the runway 90% of the time centre line.
To land a complex plane to its BASICS, you drop the flaps, you drop the gear, you land possibly VFR Visually, and 90% of the time right on the centre line.

Right or Wrong?


- BritPilot777
Forever Flight
 
CruzinAltitude
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:02 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 4:46 pm

Im still looking to see a response from an actual airline pilot to my thoughts below. If anyone could chime in, I wonder what you think.


"Let me begin by saying that I don't think I could "Land" an airliner. But if the billion to one odds situation came up, I'm probably far more qualified then any other passenger on the plane would be, so Id atleast give it a shot.

My thinking is this, I have flown plenty of hours on MS2k2 (more than enough to understand BASIC flight controls, i.e. throttle, flaps, landing gear, rudder pedals) and done a couple of hours of flight instruction. With that experience I think I could get an airliner to the ground without dropping out of the sky. The problem is, in fear of stalling, Im sure I would keep my airspeed way to high to "land" so the end result would look like the United DC10 that was crash landed in 89 (I think it was 89). I guess that would keep me out of the running for an airline job when all is said and done. Oh, and the other factor, Im not so sure I would be macho enough to try finding an airport in the middle of a city to try to drop in on. Give me the biggest, flattest, least populated area possible, that's what I would try for.

My question for the airline pilots responding to this thread, does this scenario seem more likely and possible than a non pilot saying they could stick a landing?"
 
CruzinAltitude
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:02 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 5:47 pm

Sorry,

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I double posted

[Edited 2004-05-17 10:48:51]
 
jamotcx
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 10:20 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 17, 2004 6:41 pm

Tune in the ILS, set the OBS Course, and use autopilot.

If you feel adventurous take the controls manually and just follow the flight director.

Of course managing your speed would be a doddle with the AutoThrottle. The FMC will even give you your VREF speed.

I'm sure if you had someone vectoring you in, you could easily use the autopilot to get established. Of course it does help when you use the likes of the PMDG 737 addon in FS2k4, as that panel is very very close to the real thing, so you would know where to look for things.

The situation I wouldnt feel confident to do it in is when the airport I'm landing at has no ILS


Jamo
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6884
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Tue May 18, 2004 7:08 pm

I'm an aspiring pilot and one day I wish that I could be flying one of the big guys up there. But right now, I sure as hell can't.
Yes, I do read alot about aircraft and I am a frequent flyer on FS. But I don't think that the real think would ever strike me as an easy task.
Pilots get paid for what they do, and they are responsible for so many lives, and to underestimate their abilties would be foolish.
As for me, maybe one day in a few years time, but not quite yet.

ZKSUJ
 
futureuapilot
Posts: 1329
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 7:50 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 24, 2004 8:39 am

Even though I fly every day on FS, I don't think I'd be able to land it for real. But in a few years I will be doing it!!!
The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
 
geizistgeil
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:52 am

RE: Non-Pilots: Do You Think You Could Land A Plan

Mon May 24, 2004 8:46 pm

mmmhhh, I had the opportunity to take seat on FO place in a Lufthansa 757 Flight Simulator and try to get this baby down.
Due to maintaining procedures taking place, we only had a "visual", motion was not active. This was also the reason we could be in the simulator at all. It was a great experience, after short time - even without motion - you forgot to be in a simulator, because of the 3D effect it was quite real.
After a rough approach at AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA 07R, I managed to "touch down" the plane in one piece.
My brother did a better job, his approach and touch down was quite well.
For the "professional" within our group - thanks to him we were allowed to get into the simulator - the engineer shut down one engine after take-off...his landing wasn´t ...mmhh...that good. No he isn´t a pilot Big grin
My conclusion: Under perfect conditions, with knowledge of some basics, probalbly possible.

Many happy landings  Smile
"If the Wright brothers were alive today. Wilbur would have to fire Orville to reduce costs" (H. Kelleher)

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