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na747
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Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:41 am

For those of you who work at an airline, I'd like to share something with you and would like to hear your opinions and responses. I have 3 examples of how our management treats us. These are NOT unusual circumstances: this is the usual and typical treatment we normaly receive.
1st Example: One of our co-workers, whose name I shall not reveal for privacy reasons, is a 17-year veteran & was diagnosed with cancer a year and a half ago. She has been out on medical leave since then. She was recently told by her doctors that they could no longer do anything for her in regards to treatment and, basically, told to live the rest of her days to the fullest.
Per our company's policy, when an employee is on medical leave you are not authorized to travel unless you obtain prior approval to do so. This is policy has been in place for a while. I have known of other employees whose request were approved while they were on medical leave in previous times.
This 17-year old veteran went to management and requested an emergency pass to her home country of Colombia (she lives in S.Florida). Management denied her request, the exact reason why I am not fully clear yet.
She then asked if she could travel as another employee's guest. The request was also denied.
If an employee elects to purchase a Full-Fare ticket, we get a 20% discount off whatever fare you pay. Considering her medical bills and how expensive fares are to Colombia , she was willing to purchase a Full Fare ticket and requested to get the 20% discount. This request was also denied.
After much employee uproar, management decided to allow her the 20% discount.
We were so dismayed by this type of behaviour that we, the employees, decided to donate money to help pay-off her ticket.

She didnot ask for an emergency pass to go on vacation: she requested a pass to say good-bye to her family in Colombia, make some closure, and return home.

Our question is: is it normal now-a-days for management to be so cold and uncaring? Is it normal not to show any kind of compassion? Is it normal to be so heartless and mean spirited? It really costs the company nothing to issue an emergency pass. (Many other passes have been issued for less reasons). Why didn't they just tell her hurry up and die?

2nd example:
One of our best employees, a 28-year old veteran, retired this past week. The man was not only a wonderful person, but an excellent employee with dignity, good judgement, knowledgeable, dependable and highly respected by everyone.
It looked like management didnot plan any kind of farewell for him (keep in mind this employee was highly trusted) since we all knew he was retiring a month in advance.
Some employees decided to order food and hire a Mariachi band on his last day of work. We all chipped in and donated money for this cause since many of us knew beforehand that management was getting ready to do the usual: nothing.
The band arrived unannounced on the designated date and took everyone by surprise, including the retiring employee, the workforce, and even the passengers. It was very emotional for everyone, including paxs, as the Mariachi played their songs. Afterwards the employee was walked & serenaded through the terminal.
In the meantime, the agents who set up this surprise contacted the Aviation Dept. to allow us to use the auditorium for free for just a few hours and share the food available and say farewell. The Aviation Dept. agreed.
To our disbelief, our management was "participating in the festivities" including eating the food. The only thing they provided were 2 inserts of sodas...which probably came from 1 of the 4 cxld flts we had that day.
Some of us were shocked to see such display of hypocrisy.

3rd example: (I'll use myself as an example on this one)
Last year, on my way to work in May'06, I had a car trailing me for a couple of miles. I knew & could tell the guy behind me was running late. We all know how it feels to run late for work when work is "at the airlines".
Reaching the employee parking lot, I showed my I.D. I entered the lot & due to cross-traffic I had to stop (not abruptly). Knowing the guy behind me was rushing I veered off a little to the right in order to avoid him hitting me and allow him to pass me at the corner if he wished to do so. When the cross-traffic cleared I released my brakes and felt the bang behind me. They guy finally ran into me. He was a pilot for another airline. He admitted guilt, was very nice, gave me all his info voluntarily, jumped back into his car and sped off in order to make his sign-in on time.
I stayed behind making my calls to work, the insurance company, etc. and fixing my bumper in order to drive the car and park it. I informed my supvrs before anyone else of the situation and when I got to work, I clocked in 1 minute late. Literally. My hands were dirty and greasy, I was sweaty, and the 2 members of management who knew of my predicament saw me when I walked in and asked me if I was o.k.
Surprise surprise: Management did not want to excuse my 1 minute tardiness....even though I have not been late to work since 1992 or 1993!
The supvrs jumped to my defense, and after 30 minutes of arguments, pulling and tugging and heated conversations, a member of management finally came to me and advised me that my shift could be modified by 30 minutes or nothing. So, in order to keep my attendance spotless I elected the shift modification. Considering we are paid by the hour, I ended up losing almost 30 minutes of pay. The pay I lost doesn't bother me, but the principal of it all and the lack of any consideration. It costs the company nothing to have given me the first 15 minutes off since I get paid by the hour.

I know it's been a long thread and I apologize. but what I want to know if there are any airline employees out there who are treated in a similar manner. Anyone?
As I said, these aren't unusual circumstances. This is routine, daily, normal treatment of employees at our station.
Everything is NO, NO, and NO.

I could go on and on with other examples but I wont. This is some of the reasons why we are so demoralized & disgusted with the attitude of management.

You are welcome to share any stories that you want. I'll be curious to compare what's out there.
Thanks.
 
tymnbalewne
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:06 am

RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:00 am

1. The terminally ill employee: I can't imagine my company doing that.
2. Retirement: This is a toss up. No longer do any companies offer gold watches,etc. for retiring employees. Now, the managers who attended should've contributed out of their own pockets. If they didn't, that more a poor reflection on the individuals than the company as a whole.
3. Lateness: Late is late. Most companies have some sort of policy whereby 'x' number of latenesses in a specified period of time are excused. The fact that you've not been late in over a decade is very commendable but the lateness is still a lateness regardless of the reason.

C.
Dewmanair...begins with Dew
 
DLPMMM
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Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:15 am

My only question is whether your company's employees are unionized. If they are, it may be that the local management feels constrained in setting precedents due to previous negotiation circumstances.

These situations are not always related to union/management tensions (I don't think WN management would have had these types of attitudes, nor DL on the non-union side), but sometimes union officials try to foster adversarial relationships between employees and management by playing both ends off the middle.
 
billreid
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RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:37 am

All very sad.
Sounds as if your airline is in very bad financial position. No employee should ever be treated badly.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
737tdi
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:05 am

RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:57 am

My airline just flew a fellow mechanic to his final resting place. I think we/they will do what ever it takes to ensure our friends are taken care of. I hope it stays this way after our original folks leave. Later Karl, We do start and keep fundraisers going on.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:24 am

Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
OHLHD
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting NA747 (Thread starter):
We were so dismayed by this type of behaviour that we, the employees, decided to donate money to help pay-off her ticket.

This is a nice gesture. Something similar happened in my former company where a girl was diagnosed also with cancer and all people collected money and she bought a ticket home to Costa Rica. She flew away and surprise surprise I saw her 3 years alter again. It was all a joke and she didn't't have money for her vacation. Unfortunately it changed the manner how illnesses were treated by the management. But at this point I was away from the company already. The other bad aspect was that they refused all South Americans to work for them after that.

Quoting NA747 (Thread starter):
2nd example:
One of our best employees, a 28-year old veteran, retired this past week. The man was not only a wonderful person, but an excellent employee with dignity, good judgement, knowledgeable, dependable and highly respected by everyone.
It looked like management did not plan any kind of farewell for him (keep in mind this employee was highly trusted) since we all knew he was retiring a month in advance.



Quoting NA747 (Thread starter):
To our disbelief, our management was "participating in the festivities" including eating the food. The only thing they provided were 2 inserts of sodas...which probably came from 1 of the 4 cxld flts we had that day.
Some of us were shocked to see such display of hypocrisy.

I was sure you would write that! It is always like that. Fortunately they never stay long so the party can start early too. Big grin

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 1):
3. Lateness: Late is late. Most companies have some sort of policy whereby 'x' number of latenesses in a specified period of time are excused. The fact that you've not been late in over a decade is very commendable but the lateness is still a lateness regardless of the reason.

Yes but late is not always just late. A company especially on a management level must have such judgement. Especially if an employee shows up one time in 15 years late. I wish I had such employees.  Smile


My worst story was this:

In late Nov 2005 my home airport was closed and I was working for 37hours with just an hour break in between. As you can imagine I was quite exhausted after the first 24 hours ( given that I started the previous day at 05:00 am) my manager came after of course a 12 hours brake and I received a written warning from her because I was not properly shaved. I did not know whether I should hit her, curse at her or just simple stick that damn letter up her ass.

I asked her if that was an joke ( luckily I opted for this Big grin ) and accepted it and went straight to my union and also filed a report at our headquarter. I also threatened them to take them to court which they literally asked me to do.

They ended up paying a multi 10000 Euro fine because this 2 days they violated more than 30 laws. They were ordered to take the warning letter back as well and I quit only 2 weeks later. She is still with my old company!

At my new airline everything is running fine and I get along with all colleagues very well and my new boss would never raise such things.
 
tymnbalewne
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:06 am

RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:39 pm

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 6):
Yes but late is not always just late. A company especially on a management level must have such judgement. Especially if an employee shows up one time in 15 years late. I wish I had such employees.  

I guess I don't understand then...what's wrong with one late? Even if I "absolve" the late I'd know it was a late and the employee would know that s/he was late so who benefits from this fakery? I would be grateful for a late once in 15 years employee. Now if the OP's organization is punitive towards one lateness then that's an organization I wouldn't want to be a part of.
Dewmanair...begins with Dew
 
pitops
Posts: 470
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RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:47 pm

#1: That is just insane of them. From what I have heard, WN would do anything to assure that the employee, whether he/she is the one with the illness or a family member, was well taken care of. I know that an employee that had a death in the family and WN made sure she was able to get to where she needed to and that she had enough days off. No questions asked.

#2: Now I know WN throws parties for certain employees going to retire. I know at my station they would do something for them. That's just how they are.

#3: I think 1 minute late with the circumstances is ok. I know that certain airlines have the "on time" thing really beaten into peoples heads, meaning they want them to be at least 15 minutes early for their shifts. But coming into work dirty and greasy from everything and them acting like that is a bit insane. Especially with your record.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
OHLHD
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RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:00 pm

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 7):
I guess I don't understand then...what's wrong with one late?

Nothing at all. I was criticizing that he was punished ( with the half hour not paid). Everybody may come late from time to time. Not to often especially not many times in a row.

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 7):
Now if the OP's organization is punitive towards one lateness then that's an organization I wouldn't want to be a part of.

I agree with you 100%. I would not either! Let's tag-team. Big grin
 
44k
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:07 pm

RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:47 pm

I can't believe that management can be so inconsiderate and downright cruel. I guess I'm lucky, the management at my station is much more humane, i do see a lot more care for the employees than at other companies I worked for.
 
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LAXintl
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:11 pm

1) Sorry to hear about your coworker.

2) I dont know the size of your organization, however if you think about it larger companies could very easily have hundreds of retirements each month. In todays world, and particularly in a fragile industry such as the airlines, companies simply cannot afford to really recognise each individual retirement let alone put on an event.

3) Tardy policies can vary from company to company. One company I managed at would allow a grace 3-minute tardy per quarter but was quite strict otherwise. As one poster had mentioned I dont know if you work at a company with a union, however many such policies are defined in a CBA with management having little leeway to act outside of such without it potentially coming back and haunting them as precedence setting or showing favoritism to one employee over another. You'd be amazed what shop stewards can remember when they need to.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2007-09-02 08:29:17]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
m404
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RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:41 pm

For all three of these incidents at my own airline much depends on the local managers and how afraid they are of the ones above them. We all know which managers to avoid and which have empathy. I've know managers who would have done the same thing in the last two instances but none on the first one. I've known many managers who would have laughed at the callousness of yours and done what was right.

Sooner or later these understanding managers however are confronted by someone else who may not have garnered as much favor in their working records and they demand the same treatment. This can really be a crucible for the manager to work around and stand by or bend to a more stringent "by the book" attitude. Most newer managers won't try this dance until they have been around long enough to see who will and who won't stab them in the back for being nice.

We have had so many retirees in the last few years it's just not possible for all of management to keep up with the rush and I think it's become policy to not contribute to parties for costs AND fear the someone will be slighted. We know that and just do the planning and work ourselves. We invite the managers we like to the festivities as they are part of the experience the honored person has had. The others simply know to stay away and probably would not come anyway. Manager seniority at our station is really young compared to retirees and most are in awe of that.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
kstatepilot
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:23 am

RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:05 pm

Here is a good story:

At my last job flying cargo around, I had to leave to do my weekend drill for National Guard. When I was just getting ready to get on the jumpseat of a WN plane, my chief pilot called and told me that I was fired for abandoning my post. I told him that he couldn't do this. After I received the official letter in the mail the next week, I called up the National Guard Bureau and promptly got that reversed. Needless to say I left for another job soon.

This is just an example of the many problems that the pilots had with this company.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:18 am

I don't work with the aviation side directly, but I do work for an airline:
Terminally ill: my company would take it on a case by case basis and cater to the employee
Retirement: if you are with the company for a long time they will give you a party and a nice gift.
Late: People come in late everyday-- no consequences--which I don't necessarily like considering I'm on time every single day.
Go big or go home
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:36 pm

I won't get started with the things my company has/hasn't done recently because we'd be here all night. It's just as well I love my job
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ReidYYZ
Posts: 503
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RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 6):
It was all a joke and she didn't't have money for her vacation.

Here where I work, there is a guy that claimed that he had a condition that prevented him from working in the cold, or on nightshift. That is 80% of our work environment. His claim, from his 'doctor' was that he could suffer a collapsed lung if exposed to these above mentioned elements. Just after his big proclamation, he ran off to Texas for an outbase assignment, that would require him to work.......uh.... nights, alone. Some wondered why, when he is on deaths door, " Doc says 'It's just a matter of days.' " would his 'doctor' allow him to travel. For years, his other claims of excesive personal wealth "Into the millions, buddy....and lots of real estate....." also made one wonder why he was working here. In the end, his quest died, with any shred of respect anyone had for him.
 
MarioSPlane
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RE: Airline Employees: How Are You Treated?

Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 6):
she bought a ticket home to Costa Rica



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 6):
The other bad aspect was that they refused all South Americans to work for them after that.

Awesome display of geography knowledge by management...

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