Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
ikramerica
Topic Author
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:35 am

I flew LAX-HNL on a DL 763 sunday morning and the load factor was horrible. Reminded me of the "good old days." The boarding announcement went something like this: After asking F and Medallians to board, they then said they would forgo the zone silliness and just board in two groups, starting with rows 25 and higher "because there are only about 25 of you anyway."

But that meant that while F was mostly full, in Y there were maybe 2 people per row of 7 in the back cabin, 3-4 per row in the middle cabin, if that. Everyone got to rework their seats if they wanted to, most of us took the opportunity to sleep across the center 3 seats and with all the extra blankets about, there was plenty of bedding for all. I sat and ate in my original seat, then lied down and slept for a few hours, sat and read for an hour, then moved to a rear window seat for landing. Pretty luxurious.

The F pax were crammed into their 18.5" wide 40" in seat pitch "pseudo F" 2-2-2 layout while us Y pax were sprawling out, armrests folded up, in a nobody leaning their seat back into your face paradise. Add to that the hot breakfast they provided at no cost, relatively tasty eggs+sausage+potatoes+muffin+fruit, and I think we made out pretty well.  Smile

I'm glad I didn't upgrade.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
User avatar
HA_DC9
Posts: 571
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 1999 3:16 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:44 am

I agree...For me Y is nicer than F when I get an exit row and have lots of room to stretch my legs compared to some F cabins where there is no such thing as legroom i.e. UA 752s F cabin IMHO.
 
breaker1011
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:00 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:46 am

I have to agree with you on that one. On many occasions, I would have gladly kept my coach seat with an empty couple of seats next to me instead of taking the medallion upgrade. F is great and I appreciate it, but it can be cramped with other upgrades and airline employees on flights like you mention. Sometimes some peace, quiet, and no discomfort for what the person next to you is looking at on your laptop screen, is underrated, even if it's in Y!
Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
 
EvilForce
Posts: 974
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:12 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:48 am

Yup. I'd take a bank of 3 Y seats being empty vs. domestic first class any day.
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
Anetter123
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:46 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:51 am

Row 9 on an AA 757 or most 757's. You are first to enter/exit, got NICE legroom, the bathroom is just one step away, and possibly one of the first ones to get offered beverage service.

There is always a down side to it (as with anything), and its the lack of arm rests and in some cases, the seats don't recline...LOL...which I'm willing to sacrifice both for everything else. Most of those Y class seats don't recline as much anyways.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27316
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:53 am

I have to admit if I can score the center block of Economy Plus seats on a UA 767, I will not upgrade to First (on a two-class) or Business (on a three-class).
 
PiedmontINT
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:12 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:57 am

Or if you are really lucky like I was on a CLT-MCI flight back in Nov. and have F completely empty and Y completely full!
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3264
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:57 am

The airline I worked for during non-peak times had the 737s in a 3-class setup (business, premium, and economy). The J class seats were wider (4 abreast vs 6) and had better meals (a full plate rather than just a sandwhich and slice of cheesecake), but I have to admit as far as sitting in the chair itself, I found the Y class seats much more comfortable. Premium was ideal, economy seats with business legroom.


CanadianNorth
HS-748, like a 747 but better!
 
bond007
Posts: 4428
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:02 am

I guess I'm missing something ... or you guys don't fly F much  Wink

After 15-20 years of flying 2-4 legs/week, I wouldn't be swapping a FC seat for a Y seat anyday ... full row, or exit row.

Sure some seats are nice in Y, but the majority of the time the seats themselves overall don't even come close ...

IMO of course .... others obviously disagree  Wink


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
breaker1011
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:00 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:09 am



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 8):
I guess I'm missing something ... or you guys don't fly F much

I can't honestly remember the last flight on DL that I DIDNT get upgraded on. Nonetheless, sometimes the preference depends on the aircraft as well. IE - F seats on an M88 are cramped, especially when full. On an 738 or 757 it's much more spacious and I don't feel like I'm sharing skin with the dude next to me.

Anyway, it's gotta be a nice, empty setup in coach to make it worthwhile to keep the seat back there. I've not seen a flight like that in a long time, seem to always be packed to the gills. If there's anyone next to me in Y at ALL - then get me up front.
Life's tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid. J. Wayne
 
User avatar
wilcharl
Posts: 1179
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:10 am

I did ATL-HNL on the 764 .. the center section in the exit row had all the leg room a guy could want... great flight.. Y was awesome on the 764 and that last exit row center section isnt even reserved for the big shots
 
ytib
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:17 am



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 8):
I guess I'm missing something ... or you guys don't fly F much Wink

After 15-20 years of flying 2-4 legs/week, I wouldn't be swapping a FC seat for a Y seat anyday ... full row, or exit row.

Sure some seats are nice in Y, but the majority of the time the seats themselves overall don't even come close ...

IMO of course .... others obviously disagree

I recently decided not to upgrade on a red-eye flight LIH-DEN which would have cleared easily. Instead I got an exit row window, and on that flight there were two people in the exit rows versus an almost full F cabin. The F cabin when it is full on a UA 757 is just not too great especially since when the person in front of you reclines they are on your lap. Needless to say people moved up to some of the 10 vacant exit row seats during the six hour plus flight but I was able to keep the one next to me empty.

On the outbound flight SAN-HNL Y was full but I upgraded to F and I had no one next to me nor in front of me on the 757 making it an enjoyable flight. The difference on that aircraft is the load in the F cabin.

Of course a flight I took from SNA-DEN in F on a 757 two years was pretty nice as there were 23 empty seats.

I just know after so many flights in the past years there are times when you are better off not upgrading on United, and the top of my list for not requesting an upgrade is the two class 767, followed by the 737 as it could be an ex-shuttle aircraft, the 757 is also up there but depends on the anticipated loads.
318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
bohica
Posts: 2449
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:26 am

If you ever sit in row 1 on the right side of a UA 737 or 757, you will appreciate Y. There is no legroom between those seats and the bulkhead.
 
TCT
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:59 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:30 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Thread starter):

You just got lucky, I'm sure you wouldn't feel that way if Y was completely full, but yes in this type of situation Y would be better then F.
 
ikramerica
Topic Author
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:42 am

The thread is entitled SOMETIMES Y is better than F, not "F is for suckers" so take a chill some of you...

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 8):
I guess I'm missing something ... or you guys don't fly F much

you didn't read the thread, obviously, but thanks for the input...  Wink

Seriously, I fly F all the time. The best F experience can't be beat. LAX-SYD in F on QF was quite nice. And J is generally great, and even domestic F when Y is full.

But I'm talking on THIS flight. Where F consists of narrow seats with 40" pitch on DL's domestic 767s, which when you factor in thicker seats and more recline than coach, means the person is in your face and crossing your legs isn't easy. The F cabin was nearly full, meaning no privacy, no personal service. It wasn't like CO with their 2-1-2 and 55" pitch. It's domestic F crammed in a 767.

In Y, it was nearly empty. They served real food, a real hot breakfast that was quite tasty, I had a "lie flat" seat to myself, as did everyone who wanted one. Granted, the bed length was only 54" but oh well.

Sitting upright, I was in the middle section where the legroom is increased, 33-34". Nobody in front of me reclining into my face, nobody behind me to pull on my seat as they get up. And there was really fast, personal service by the F/As, since the ratio was high.

I was woken up once by a loud Chinese passenger. A group of Chinese business men were traveling together, and spread out throughout the plane due to the space. A few had PSPs with them and were playing a game in wifi mode, and when one guy beat another guy, he screamed out with taunts. It would have been funny had I not been asleep. He realized he was really loud, and quieted down. But other than that, the flight was great.

Quoting TCT (Reply 13):
You just got lucky, I'm sure you wouldn't feel that way if Y was completely full, but yes in this type of situation Y would be better then F.

Of course I wouldn't feel the same way. I'm sure it won't be that way returning to LAX on Friday afternoon...  Sad
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:52 am

It's sometimes not worth it. MCO-LGA for example on AA had a rather pathetic breakfast service up in F but it was on a 757 so i enjoyed it. Other than that, everytime I've upgraded on AA this year has been worthwhile. I flew LAX-EWR on AA 164 in F and we had tons of turbulence the whole way, and I'm pretty sure you don't feel anything up front when you compare it to Y. Add to that great service and a full Y cabin, and I'd say it was worth the upgrade. Another time I flew DFW-EWR over thanksgiving and it was classified as "snack" service but we were offered hot salmon. Yumm. Add a ground stop into the mix and a full Y cabin, I'd also say that was worth the upgrade. (really, AA had great service on these flights.)
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 am

Look at it this way: If F is packed and Y has 10 people in the entire cabin, an F passenger could probably go take a snooze across some Y seats. I don't think it would work the other way around.  Smile
 
FlyboyOz
Posts: 1762
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:22 am

Yes...I flew on an Ansett Australia B744 from HKG to SYD. I was in the upper deck which is for Y. There were not many pax in the upper deck but in the main deck - lots of pax. I was soo lucky to have three seats and three PTVs as well. I felt like I was in the F and the cabin in the upper deck was so quiet. FANTASTIC airlines and inflight serivce. It was far better than F class seats. I was able to sleep well and tried to watch all the three ptvs (airshow map, movies and game). What a good memories I've ever had.

Pity...AN was disappeared.  Sad
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
User avatar
fbgdavidson
Posts: 3893
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:09 am

I've had the occassional Y flight where I've done better than those up front. Scoring row 9 on the UA 757s can be good, unless you get 9A and then get freezing cold, and find that the emergency chute box thing in the door makes it hard to cross your legs out in front of you. Other good'uns I've had:

Row 6 and 11 on UA A320 (IAD-SFO and SFO-PHL)
Row 30 on internationally UA 777 (ORD-DEN)
Row 8 on BA 737 (LGW-DUB)

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 17):
FANTASTIC airlines and inflight serivce. It was far better than F class seats.

I was beginning to believe you until you put that in  Wink

Empty Y class vs. F class domestic I can understand but:

F class internationally >>>> unscalable wall >>>> Y class internationally.

You need to have your head checked if you'd turn down international F for international Y....unless it's some eighth rate airline like Biman Bangladesh and you had all of economy to yourself...Reminds me of this comment from this thread: SIA A380 Interior Revealed! (by Ants Oct 14 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Uairfokker (Reply 70):
I would feel rather lonely in F. I mean, locked in a cubicle by myself for the whole trip?
No thanks.

I would rather fly in Y, although it may be not as comfortable, as I would feel guilty in F or C thinking about everyone in Y.

"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
ualcsr
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:59 am

I flew MIA-ORD-NRT non-rev on UA a few years ago. 777 MIA-ORD full in F and C, maybe 20 pax in Y. I much preferred having the Y cabin to myself, almost, than being cramped up front, especially since I was almost sure to score F (which I did) on the ORD-NRT portion. So yes, in some cases, Y is better (but I'd keep it to short flights).
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:14 am

Until deregulation, average load factors on most routes (both domestic and international) were much lower than today, rarely much above the 60% range. I recall dozens of flights in the 1970s and 80s that were far less than half full, and more often than not you had an empty seat next to you.

On longhaul flights, especially in the early years of widebody service, it was very common to have at least 3 seats to yourself, or even 4 in the center section of 747s (and sometimes 5 on DC-10s and L1011s after they changed from the original 2-4-2 to 2-5-2). With the armrests folded up and a few pillows, I was able to sleep much better that way than in a standard first class seat, and even better than in many of today's flat-bed seats (especially the ones on a slant where you feel like you're sliding off onto the floor).
 
AY104
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:35 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:49 am

In the 90's, when I still worked for Delta, I voluntarily flew Y most of the time. My coworkers could not understand this at all. Even when I explained that Y has a lot of open seats, and F is almost booked full and will definitely be full with upgrades and other airline personnel, they still could not grasp the logic. I even worked with a lot of people who travelled with their kids, and would list themselves for F when Y had plenty of open seats. They would even split up just to sit up front. Now don't get me wrong, I totally appreciated that Delta did, and still does, want to provide the best of their service to employees. However, I never considered their F Class domestic/North America product so wonderful that I did not want to pass it up in exchange for more personal space. And I never did sample the overseas product.
A lot of people just want to sit up front for the prestige and the free booze. To me, if I can't afford to buy a sandwich and a couple of drinks, then I shouldn't be travelling. To give up my personal comfort to save a few bucks just doesn't fly (pardon the pun of terms).
I used to work with a guy who checked all the inbound flights, and where all the non-revs were sitting. One time I took a flight PHX-LAX-YVR. When I boarded in PHX, I was given an F seat PHX-LAX, even though I had listed in Y. The gate agent explained to me that F was full from LAX-YVR, so I was given a seat in Y for that leg. I didn't bother at that point requesting a Y seat PHX-LAX. When we got to LAX, I ran into a girl I worked with at YVR who was travelling with her father. F opened up at the last minute, and they ended up sitting together up front. I kept my Y seat. When we got to YVR, the guy I worked with approached me and almost scolded me for not sitting in F ! He was so incredulous, there was no explanation I could give him that would satisfy him. I still can't understand myself why it was such a big deal to him where I sat on the aircraft. As long as I get from point A to point B safely I'm a pretty happy guy.
Sorry to ramble on and on, but I thought a few of you might find this kind of an interesting take on the "Sometimes Y is better than F" theory.
By the way, I have not worked for the airlines for over 10 years now. I can't afford to travel in F or J, and it really is still not that important to me. It might be surprising to some of you for me to admit that I actually kind of loath travelling any more. I am still quite interested in what goes on at the airlines, I guess it is still in my blood after 25 years of work. Once I do get on an airplane, I am quite happy to sit and read a book, or listen to my own music. The onboard entertainment does not interest me in the least. On the domestic flights, I am perfectly happy to be able to purchase a fairly decent sandwich when I'm hungry, or if I want a drink at any time I can wander to the galley and I have always, without exception, had flight crew that were more than willing to comply with my beverage request.
Happy travels to all of you!
Cheers.
AY104
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
 
NG1Fan
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:53 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:46 am

I tried to use some LH miles on an Y to J upgrade on UA ORD-FRA some years ago. The gate agent winked at me and said that I'd much prefer Y. Indeed, he blocked a row of 5 seats (777 - love that bird) in Economy Plus all the way to FRA. That fifth seat was hard to defend, but I still managed to get horizontal across four seats. That beat the cradle seat C class on that flight. Pity it was soooooo bumpy....

NG1Fan
 
mauiman31
Posts: 297
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:36 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:06 pm

Thanks for them. Enjoyed reading the interesting experiences from you all who fly long hauls a lot. I don't. And I agree that "Sometimes Y is better" or just as comfy. Since my travel is all domestic for work. . . I only sit up front for work if it is "free" or very cheap to upgrade. And I get to fairly often. . . Fun when it happens. Otherwise, not worth it to me. And how fun when the Y load is light and you have the whole row to yourself. Sweet.

For leisure - a different story, especially long haul. I won't gamble that the Y load will be light and we'll have the extra room. And if I am using miles or paying for F/J on vacation -- I am picky about the airline and aircraft scheduled. For a long haul vacation we want our extreme pitch, lie-flat seat, etc. and some degree of pampering.

Flip side. . . have dear friends who are very capable of flying F/J on vacation. But just will not. No way. Think it is a total waste of miles and/or $$. In fact, our upcoming vacation to HNL, we are on the same flights. . . different cabins.  Wink
 
xjramper
Posts: 2318
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:46 am



Quoting Bohica (Reply 12):
If you ever sit in row 1 on the right side of a UA 737 or 757, you will appreciate Y. There is no legroom between those seats and the bulkhead.

I understand where you are coming from, however, I would gladly take F over any seat in coach because I am 6'7" so I will be lacking the legroom as it is, so I'd rather do it in style. So I won't appreciate Y any more than F  Wink

Flew out ATL-SAN to watch the Red Bull air Races and the flight was empty going out...we had rows to ourselves but I still had no legroom. So it doesn't matter where I go in coach, it still sucks. lol

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
ikramerica
Topic Author
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:56 am

Return flight was nearly as empty in my section again, everyone who wanted it had 3 seats to themselves. Meal was pretty decent too. Got to lie down and watch a movie on my laptop. Not bad for Y, but can't be great for DL to fly their 763s this empty. Maybe it's just I'm going "against traffic" by going to Hawaii on Sunday and leaving on Friday?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:16 am

There is nothing better than 3 seats together in Y on a long flight. You can snooze all the way and don't feel you've missed out on anything if you sleep through the meal service.  Silly
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:31 am



Quoting Babybus (Reply 26):
There is nothing better than 3 seats together in Y on a long flight. You can snooze all the way and don't feel you've missed out on anything if you sleep through the meal service.

Sleeping through the meal service?! OMG!!! That would be horrible... Big grin

I still prefer the F class seat over a row in Y class...

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8354
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: Sometimes Y Is Better Than F...

Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:13 am

I had the choice of staying in Y on my NZ flight up to SFO with 140 seats empty down the back out of 269, or take 2K in a completely full C Class. No prizes for guessing I took the horizontal bed for 12 hours.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Crosswind and 17 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos