manfredj
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Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:30 pm

The United Kingdom has British Airways, Japan has JAL, France has Air France, but I am hesitant to crown American Airlines as America's flagship carrier. In this case, I think the premier airline isn't the largest, but the best..kind of like Singapore.

Additionally, just because United and Northwest have 747's doesn't mean that their service is best either.

I think our flagship airline would be Continental for it's classy service, large route system, employee morale, and it's refusal to cut amenities to save money. Overall, it seems the only choice to me.
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2travel2know
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:37 pm

I'm sure it used to be PAN AM, but these days my guess would be UA or AA.
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SESGDL
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:40 pm

There is no American flagship carrier.

UA has the most worldwide scope (no Africa service), followed by DL (weak in Asia, no Australia) and CO (weak in Asia, no Australia, no Africa). AA's obviously the largest airline, but their network is pretty sparse in Asia, the Pacific, and Africa.

Jeremy
 
Rj111
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:46 pm

I'd say UA or AA if there were to be one, but there isn't. CO aren't "grand" enough.

SQ is the largest Airline in Singapore btw.

[Edited 2008-03-06 07:48:36]
 
ogre727
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:51 pm



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 2):
There is no American flagship carrier.

UA has the most worldwide scope (no Africa service), followed by DL (weak in Asia, no Australia) and CO (weak in Asia, no Australia, no Africa). AA's obviously the largest airline, but their network is pretty sparse in Asia, the Pacific, and Africa.

Jeremy

What is a flagship carrier? following the logic of the above posts, only few countries in the world would have flagship carriers (airlines with worldwide coverage).

Not being a smart ass, I would really want to know how you define it.
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albird87
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:54 pm

which American Airline has the most coverage in the USA itself? That i would think would have to count a bit.

AA have probably the best coverage for South America and the Caribbean but again their Asia expansion is nothing really and they have an ok european coverage (pretty all the major cities in western europe but expansion to eastern europe underway)

CO does probably sound like it has the best all round coverage.

Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
The United Kingdom has British Airways

If you are actually talking about the actual flag carrier its not BA! VA are actually the flag carrier now when BA changed their colour scheme to those wierd 'world colours'. The story goes that when BA did change the colours that Lady Margeret Thatcher said at the unveiling to them in disgust 'WE, fly the FLAG!' as they had taken it off.
 
manfredj
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:07 pm

Quoting Ogre727 (Reply 4):
Not being a smart ass, I would really want to know how you define it.

My definition would be the best airline...NOT flag carrier. Again, Singapore is a great example.

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 5):
CO does probably sound like it has the best all round coverage.

I agree

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 5):
If you are actually talking about the actual flag carrier its not BA! VA are actually the flag carrier now when BA changed their colour scheme to those wierd 'world colours'.

Again, not flag carrier as we don't have one...but flagship

[Edited 2008-03-06 08:32:32]
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Stitch
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:09 pm

I suppose it would be UA or AA. Of the domestics, UA is my favorite, but CO is winning me over more and more on the domestic side (lack of a true First Class is keeping me off them on international).
 
manfredj
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:13 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
(lack of a true First Class is keeping me off them on international).

Thats too bad as my 777 EWR TelAviv flight a couple years ago was absolutely amazing...and I believe they have upgraded the service even more since.
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luv2fly
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:15 pm



Quoting SESGDL (Reply 2):
CO (weak in Asia, no Australia, no Africa).

CO does have a single route to Australia with CO Mike.
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aa1818
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:20 pm



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 1):
I'm sure it used to be PAN AM, but these days my guess would be UA or AA.

I agree. I think the flag carrier of the USA would have to be determined by it's hubs/ bases.
It would be important to have LAX, NYC, ORD and possible somewhere in TX. Perhaps also a minor focus on Washington. Furthermore, America through the Menifest Destiny and Monroe Doctrine deemed the western hemisphere to be its sphere of control, as such Central and South America, Mexico and the Caribbean would also be inportant in determining the flag carrier as links to such places are essential if control is to be maintained. This to me points more in the direction of AA than any other carrier.

On the other hand one could definte Flag carrier as one which links the USA the best with the world, in which case UA or DL would be the winners there.

It all depends on how you define 'flag carrier' especially for a nation such as the USA. Feel free to disagree with my above definition!

AA1818
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Bartonsayswhat
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:23 pm



Quoting Ogre727 (Reply 4):
What is a flagship carrier?

i dont know about the rest of the world, but AC gets government money and tax breaks. do other "flag carriers" get tax breaks or government money in their respective country?
 
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N328KF
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:24 pm

I always figured the flag carriers were the ones operating under CRAF. This gives the carriers special status under US law, and makes them more difficult to purchase buy non-US entities.
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ogre727
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:27 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 12):
I always figured the flag carriers were the ones operating under CRAF. This gives the carriers special status under US law, and makes them more difficult to purchase buy non-US entities.

Maybe, but the world does not revolve around US law. There are other countries and presumably with flag carriers too.
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b777a340fan
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:31 pm



Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
I think our flagship airline would be Continental for it's classy service, large route system, employee morale, and it's refusal to cut amenities to save money. Overall, it seems the only choice to me.

I don't think so. And that is very subjective. It's not like AF or SQ or EK or VN who definitely are flagship carriers.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 3):
I'd say UA or AA if there were to be one, but there isn't. CO aren't "grand" enough.

I think it's closer to be a flagship carrier, but not THE flagship carrier of the US.

Quoting Ogre727 (Reply 4):
What is a flagship carrier? following the logic of the above posts, only few countries in the world would have flagship carriers (airlines with worldwide coverage).

I agree, notably France, UAE, and SQ.

Quoting Manfredj (Thread starter):
The United Kingdom has British Airways, Japan has JAL, France has Air France

I don't know if people would agree that BA and JAL are their respective country's "flagship" carrier. It depends on your definition, I suppose. But I'm thinking that VS and ANA might think otherwise.

I would agree w/ most people who said that PAN AM used to be America's flagship carrier.

Today, it'd be whatever combination of UAL + CO + AA + DL (maybe) would result in.
 
manfredj
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:35 pm



Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 14):
Today, it'd be whatever combination of UAL + CO + AA + DL (maybe) would result in.



Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 14):
It depends on your definition

Your post is very gray...I like black and white. There is such a thing as the best...and I'm interested to know which U.S. airline is.
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Rj111
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:38 pm



Quoting B777a340fan (Reply 14):
I don't know if people would agree that BA and JAL are their respective country's "flagship" carrier. It depends on your definition, I suppose. But I'm thinking that VS and ANA might think otherwise.

BA would definately be considered the flagship of the UK by quite a stretch.
 
caspritz78
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:41 pm

A flag carrier is normally a carrier that was or still is in complete or partial state ownership. Especially European carriers were often state owned. Some still are still partial state owned. This definition doesn't work for the US carriers since they were never state owned.

I agree PAN AM and TWA were probably the best recognized US carriers outside the US. Today there is no single US flag carrier left.
 
anonms
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:51 pm

Well, if you consider that Pan Am was the de facto US flag carrier, then UA and DL, since they were the ones that bought out Pan Am's assets, would, combined, be the de facto flag carrier.
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Lufthansa
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:09 pm



Quoting Caspritz78 (Reply 17):
I agree PAN AM and TWA were probably the best recognized US carriers outside the US. Today there is no single US flag carrier left.

Back before the US domestic market was deregulated, PAN AM and TWA were the US flag carriers and particularly 'PAN AM' was the 'chosen instrument'.
In exchange, PAN AM wasn't allowed to fly a huge domestic network. I know they had repositioning flights but I'm guessing that prior to deregulation these weren't bookable. (which i believe was the reason Pan Am purchased National Airways) (Qantas' repositioning flights inside Australia weren't bookable until Australian deregulation either).

It pretty much went all downhill from there. But remember at one point in time basically every wealthy country had one flag carrier and that was it, nobody else was allowed to start up a competing carrier... with memories of world war 2 fresh in people's mind and the thought of national airlines as sort of an emergency 'air lift' if needed.
I think the exception was made for the USA, because 1 - it was much bigger then the rest of the world, and 2 - Pan Am and TWA were already well established before the laws were put in place. Other carriers weren't quite so big. I think actually that ment TWA was really the only carrier we'd consider to have a complete modern network with both short and long haul operations. Too bad howard hughes raped the thing asset wise for so many years.... Otherwise it really would have been the 'american powerhouse', much like BA, LH etc today.
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:15 pm



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 16):

BA would definately be considered the flagship of the UK by quite a stretch.

I don't think so. To me, flagship carrier means an airline that you automatically associate with a country. When I think UK, I don't automatically think BA, sorry.

Quoting Manfredj (Reply 15):
Your post is very gray...I like black and white. There is such a thing as the best...and I'm interested to know which U.S. airline is.

Then you should've defined flagship carrier, as the best. There are none IMO. It's the lesser of all evils, which to me, is WN.  rotfl 
 
Rj111
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:32 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 20):
I don't think so. To me, flagship carrier means an airline that you automatically associate with a country. When I think UK, I don't automatically think BA, sorry.

Ohh so you associate Virgin Blue, ohh, sorry, Virgin America, ahh there i go again, Virgin Atlantic with the UK, instead of British airways - The airline in blue and red, who proudly flew the icon of British (and French) aviation engineering for nearly 3 decades and has Rolls Royce engines on nearly every plane for better or worse.

Catch my drift?  

[Edited 2008-03-06 09:34:46]
 
United1
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:07 pm



Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 20):
Then you should've defined flagship carrier, as the best. There are none IMO. It's the lesser of all evils, which to me, is WN

There is no such thing as a US Flag carrier, as some here have said. You could have made a case for PA or TW during there time but since then no US carrier truly dominates the market. I guess I see SQ, KL, and QF as flag carries as they have no real competition form other carriers based in the same country.

B777A340Fan it might surprise you to know that WN up untill 9/11 literally was not a flag carrier as they didn't have the US flag painted on there aircraft.
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Flighty
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:42 pm

One we get a few mega-carriers like DL/NW and UA/CO, we will have at least 2 true flagship carriers worthy of the name. They will serve all roles (domestic and international), and all destinations for the US citizen or the US-bound foreign visitor.
 
wingscrubber
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:44 am

I've flown with all the large US airlines and I can tell you inmy opinion the airline which is the best US ambassador is definately Continental, and the worst by far are definately Delta and North West.
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MD-90
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:44 pm



Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 20):
I don't think so. To me, flagship carrier means an airline that you automatically associate with a country. When I think UK, I don't automatically think BA, sorry.

As an American I automatically think BA. They have a worldwide network unmatched by any other airline based in the the UK, and the only others in Europe that are comparable in scope are Lufthansa and AF/KLM.
 
mauiman31
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:25 am



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 1):
it used to be PAN AM,


Absolutely. And TW.

AA, UA, NW, CO, US and DL -- all represent us internationally in varying degrees.
 
staralliance38
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:26 pm

US Airways because it flies the flag on the tail lol

Seriously, there is no flag carrier of the US. Because of the free-enterprise system, there are many US Airlines and they are all great (well......some of them).
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a380us
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:50 am

I would guess AA because dont they have the largest domestic market?
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fxramper
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:25 am





photo by me from the LAX ramp at T4.

 
deltaguy767
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:44 pm



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):
I agree. I think the flag carrier of the USA would have to be determined by it's hubs/ bases.
It would be important to have LAX, NYC, ORD and possible somewhere in TX. Perhaps also a minor focus on Washington. Furthermore, America through the Menifest Destiny and Monroe Doctrine deemed the western hemisphere to be its sphere of control, as such Central and South America, Mexico and the Caribbean would also be inportant in determining the flag carrier as links to such places are essential if control is to be maintained. This to me points more in the direction of AA than any other carrier.

On the other hand one could definte Flag carrier as one which links the USA the best with the world, in which case UA or DL would be the winners there.

It all depends on how you define 'flag carrier' especially for a nation such as the USA. Feel free to disagree with my above definition!

AA1818

An excellent analysis of an American version of a flag carrier, however I would tend to think that worldwide coverage in addition to the US's sphere of control is preferable.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 23):
One we get a few mega-carriers like DL/NW and UA/CO, we will have at least 2 true flagship carriers worthy of the name. They will serve all roles (domestic and international), and all destinations for the US citizen or the US-bound foreign visitor.

I agree, currently each carrier had complementing services that would/would not make it up for consideration as a "flag carrier" as noted in above posts.

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a380us
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:31 pm



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):

I agree. I think the flag carrier of the USA would have to be determined by it's hubs/ bases.



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):
NYC

Woo so that narrows it down to AA, B6, CO, DL, US, and maybe even WN in Islip
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:56 pm

I'd say it's probably American or Delta, but that's just me.
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dl767captain
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:07 am

I would say look at the airports and which tails do you see the most of, i would go with UA simply because they have a large presence in Asia, and still a relatively large amount in Europe. But i think i read a report a while ago saying DL was actually one of the most recognized carriers when asking foreigners. I could really see DL becoming the US flagship sometime soon, they are growing exponentialy, they are really putting a lot of work into their new cabins. DL seems to just get it right, they came out of bankruptcy and have just been doing great, the cabin crew are extremely friendly and their new interiors are really a step ahead of all their competitors. I would say UA for now but DL is catching up
 
YXD172
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RE: Who Is America's Flagship Carrier?

Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:02 am

I don't know if it's just me, or maybe just us people who are involved with aviation, but WN comes to mind more than any other airline when I think of US aviation. They are IMO quite well known in Canada due to their fame as an LCC and their influence on the LCCs of many other countries, even though all of their service is domestic AFAIK. I would think that their worldwide 'presence' would be greater than most other airlines -- similar to how Ryanair is so well known on this side of the pond even though they only serve Europe. But maybe it's just me.
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