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Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:45 pm
by henkybaby
Everytime I book a ticket I am surprised about the surcharges. For example a ticket AMS - LYS cost E57 with E97 in fuel surcharges added on. Especially on economy tickets (also long haul) the surcharge is astronomical. I have often wondered why the airlines did not simple incorporate (part of) the surcharge in the ticket price.

Even when legislation in Europe makes it mandatory for airlines to advertise with the all-in price they keep the ticket price low and the surcharge high. I think I figured it out. After ordering a number of award tickets that is. They were in C, but if they had been in Y there would hardly have been any point. The surcharge is still charged so a E700 return to NYC would still be E311.

Is this a way for the airlines to minimize the impact that reward travel has?

RE: Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:42 pm
by Analog


Quoting Henkybaby (Thread starter):
Is this a way for the airlines to minimize the impact that reward travel has?

It's a way for airlines to charge for "free" tickets: i.e. it's a scam. If they use the word "Free" in advertising it's basically fraud.

Of course the T&C of the freq. flier programs probably have a line like: "We can change anything, do anything, and you have no recourse."

RE: Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:47 am
by Viscount724


Quoting Henkybaby (Thread starter):
After ordering a number of award tickets that is. They were in C, but if they had been in Y there would hardly have been any point. The surcharge is still charged so a E700 return to NYC would still be E311.

I agree, for Y class in Europe it's rarely worth wasting your miles on redemption tickets since you can often find a special fare that's almost the same as the total of all the fees/surcharges/taxes.

I was recently looking at redeeming KL-AF Flying Blue miles from GVA to YYZ or YUL. I think the taxes/surcharges on both KL and AF were around the equivalent of $350. However, the availability display also showed an option on CO GVA-EWR-YYZ/YUL with fees/charges of only about $65. That's presumably because CO only charges government and airport taxes but not fuel surcharges for redemption bookings. I think that's true for most U.S. carriers although I recall another recent thread mentioning that DL was going to start adding a flat amount (forget the amounts) on domestic and interenational redemption bookings due to the high fuel prices. The numbers mentioned were still much lower than the surcharges on full revenue tickets which are what European carriers charge.

RE: Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:53 am
by signol
They should be all-inclusive prices, with all non-optional charges included. I have a loyalty card with "Air Miles", an affiliate of BA, and their reward flights are completely free - they increased the number of "points" required to cover the additional costs. Why can't traditional frequant flyer schemes do this - just increase the milage cost of a reward flight?

signol

RE: Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:58 pm
by soups
Just looking for flights to New York from London.... Taxes and Charges are on avergae $500!!!I remember the days where u can fly LON-NYC for around 500$

RE: Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:39 pm
by Analog


Quoting Soups (Reply 4):
Taxes and Charges are on avergae $500!!!I

An NYC-LON (JFK-LHR) r/t has $175 in taxes & fees (in coach in December). Anything else is airfare.

RE: Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:57 pm
by soups
Depart – Mon 4 Aug 2008
British Airways
Flight 183 Departs: 8:00p
Heathrow (LHR) Arrives: 10:30p
John F Kennedy Intl (JFK)
Coach | Fare code: VHXRCGB8 | Boeing 747-400 (Wide-body Jet) | 7h 30m

Return – Mon 18 Aug 2008
This flight leaves on Monday and arrives on Tuesday.
British Airways
Flight 182 Departs: 10:30p
John F Kennedy Intl (JFK) Arrives: 10:20a
Heathrow (LHR)
Coach | Fare code: VHXRCGB8 | Boeing 747-400 (Wide-body Jet) | 6h 50m

Airfare Taxes & Fees Total Cost
CheapTickets.com $770.00 $484.99 $1254.99 select
Orbitz $770.00 $487.99 $1257.99 select
British Airways $764.34 $494.62 $1258.96 select

RE: Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:23 pm
by henkybaby


Quoting Analog (Reply 5):
An NYC-LON (JFK-LHR) r/t has $175 in taxes & fees (in coach in December). Anything else is airfare.

Maybe, but you need to read better. Flights originating in Europe on a European carrier often see surcharges and taxes being more than the ticket itself.

RE: Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:22 pm
by Analog


Quoting Henkybaby (Reply 7):
Maybe, but you need to read better. Flights originating in Europe on a European carrier often see surcharges and taxes being more than the ticket itself.

How so? I did a fine job of reading the post that I quoted, which was talking about NYC-LON. If we reverse it an originate in LON the taxes & fees for a r/t to NYC are GBP 87.5 (LHR) or GBP 78.6 (LGW). Everything else is airfare. 87.5 GBP is $174: i.e. the taxes & mandated fees are the same for trips originating in LON and NYC.

For the OP's example of AMS-LYS, the taxes & gov't fees should be 58.45 euros. "Fuel surcharges" are not taxes or fees mandated by the airport or gov't regulations, they are part of the airfare.

No matter what the airline calls the ticket price:"fare", "fuel surcharge," "airworthy aircraft surcharge," or "sober pilot surcharge," it still is part of the price set by the airline (not by the government or airport operator).

Fuel surcharges are a scam, pure and simple. Fuel is an operating expense like any other. The prices may vary, but so do other costs. Depreciation has probably hit 40-50 seat RJ operators with huge negatives on the balance sheet. Does that justify an itemized "RJ depreciation surcharge"?

RE: Surcharges Vs Ticket Price Increase

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:05 pm
by henkybaby


Quoting Analog (Reply 8):
No matter what the airline calls the ticket price:"fare", "fuel surcharge," "airworthy aircraft surcharge," or "sober pilot surcharge," it still is part of the price set by the airline (not by the government or airport operator).

Ok, well that is my point exactly. My grievance is not with the taxes but with the surcharges. If I book an award I do not expect tp pay for some of the fuel and not for the rest. It is an award, not a partial award.