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jcchristie
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Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:30 am

What are two biggest competitors?
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:34 am

Probably United and American as they share hubs in both LAX and ORD, not to metion competing indirectly in many other markets.
 
kaitak
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:40 am

It's virtually impossible to say, particularly in the current trading environment. It's probably fair to say that the more difficult the trading environment, the fiercer the competition will be.

From an Irish perspective, I'd say that the competition between Ryanair and any airline that competes against it is pretty fierce, but you have so many other examples of fierce competition around the world: Jetstar -v- Virgin Blue in Australia, any of the new batch of Indian carriers - Air Deccan, Go, Indigo etc, Kulula -v- 1Time in SA, Gol -v- TAM in Brazil, and the list goes on.

It can also depend on the regulatory environment; some airlines may not compete quite as fiercely because of regulation on fares or advertising and some countries may not allow mentioning of competitors in advertising.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:05 am

BA and VS

BA and VS

BA and VS
 
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Acey
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:10 am

AC and WS up here, obviously.

UA and AA is my bet for the States.
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platinumfoota
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:18 am

I vote AA and UA, not only sharing LAX and ORD hubs but also battling out LAX-JFK with different approaches to their service. Seems like WN is getting in UA's way also.
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United1
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:27 am

At least here in the US UA and AA have probably the oldest rivalry but over the years the UA vs AA has kind of morphed into a cold war. I would say the biggest active rivalry right now is DL vs CO in NYC.

Australia at one point would have been Ansett vs QANTAS

Singapore vs Cathay

BA vs Virgin

Lufthansa vs Air France
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767er
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:47 am

Air New Zealand verses Qantas but not as much as BA verses VS
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flymia
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:47 am

BA vs VS has to be the biggest.
Here in the states AA UA.
But what about B6 and WN?
Also what about a nice classic rival. Eastern and Pan Am or Pan Am and TWA. Now those were some real rivalries in the sky.
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SCL767
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:50 am



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 7):
Also what about a nice classic rival. Eastern and Pan Am or Pan Am and TWA. Now those were some real rivalries in the sky.

Very true! Also, Ansett and Qantas and Lan Chile and Ladeco.
 
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fraspotter
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:55 am

BA/VS
AA/UA
FR/Every airline in Europe  Smile
JL/NH
EK/Etihad
SQ/Cathay Pacific
LH/AB

and in past years...

AC/Canadian
TW/Pan Am
Qantas/Ansett
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castroprauxel
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:15 am



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 3):
BA and VS

BA and VS

BA and VS

 bigthumbsup 

Though it seems like things are also heating up in the NZ/QF front.
 
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malaysia
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:20 am

US East and US West  duck 
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Bongodog1964
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:34 am



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 3):

BA and VS

BA and VS

BA and VS

Richard Branson would like to think that the above is true; in reality however VS is a minnow compared to BA; and a poorly nourished one at that.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:50 am

Delta / AirTran

Not against airlines, but

Alitalia / European Union
Olympic / Gravity
Air France / Aircraft washers
Ryanair / window blinds
Virgin Atlantic / Humility
Qantas / the letter U
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BCAL
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:57 am



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 13):
Richard Branson would like to think that the above is true; in reality however VS is a minnow compared to BA; and a poorly nourished one at that.

Absolutely - and to illustrate the point here are a few facts and figures:

Fleet: BA - 245 aircraft, VS - 38 aircraft
Destinations served: BA 300, VS 29
Slots at LHR: BA 200,000 pa (41.2% of total), VS 17,000 (3.5% which inlcudes slots leased from other airlines).

Although Branson makes out BA to be the big bad wolf, in reality there is much co-operation between the two airlines and therefore any rivalry is Branson's and VS's imagination. Besides BA would not be unduly concerned about an airline that is 6% of its size and which, according to the industry, 'punches far above its weight'. They would be far more concerned about mega airlines like EK, LH, SQ etc.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
castroprauxel
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:20 am



Quoting BCAL (Reply 15):

Fleet: BA - 245 aircraft, VS - 38 aircraft
Destinations served: BA 300, VS 29
Slots at LHR: BA 200,000 pa (41.2% of total), VS 17,000 (3.5% which inlcudes slots leased from other airlines)

Yeah well, obviously no one can really compare - but it's a fierce rivalry, no doubt. seems that Branson enjoys being the pain in BA's behind.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 14):
Air France / Aircraft washers

LOL! and by the way - happy b-day BestWestern  cheerful 
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:54 am



Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 16):
Yeah well, obviously no one can really compare - but it's a fierce rivalry, no doubt. seems that Branson enjoys being the pain in BA's behind.

Some might consider that the rivalry is all one way; BA never seems to show too many signs of being worried by VS; on the other hand the front man for VS seems to get rather hot underneath his unbuttoned collar fairly frequently.
 
anstar
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:10 am



Quoting 767ER (Reply 8):
Air New Zealand verses Qantas but not as much as BA verses VS

Air NZ and QF are not really strong competitors. Sure they compete, but not agressively.

DJ on the other hand is more competitive towards QF/NZ
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:14 am

Iit has to be Aer Lingus and Ryanair... that is one bitter, twisted pairing, going all the way back to the foundation of Ryanair.

Where else would you hear of one buying into the other just so it can strangle it to death slowly and publicly and blatently...
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:15 am

Singapore Airlines vs. Qantas
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Doona
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:17 am



Quoting BCAL (Reply 15):
Although Branson makes out BA to be the big bad wolf, in reality there is much co-operation between the two airlines and therefore any rivalry is Branson's and VS's imagination.

It sure wasn't imaginary when VS was just starting out. Read the book "Dirty Tricks"...

Cheers
Mats
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BCAL
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:53 am



Quoting Doona (Reply 21):
It sure wasn't imaginary when VS was just starting out. Read the book "Dirty Tricks"...

Like they say there are two sides to every story - "Dirty Tricks" was Branson's sexened up version.

If you do you research you will find that Branson only won libel against BA, not for any of the alleged "dirty tricks" such as poaching VS passengers, hacking into their passengers' database, spreading rumours that VS aircraft were unsafe, BA saying AIDS infected needles had been found outside Branson's Heaven nightclub etc, but for an article that was published in the BA Staff Newspaper. Furthermore, fuelled by his victory in the English court, Branson took the case to the New York court and promptly lost.

If you do some more research you will find that Branson also constantly waved the red flag at BA's stables but the BA board, being the professionals they were, ignored his taunts and tantrums until Branson offered the UK Government a VS aircraft to fly to Baghdad to pick up British nationals who were stranded by the first hostilities in Iraq. "Virgin, not BA, has been chosen by the government to be the UK's flag carrier" was Branson's boast. It is not widely known that Branson initially demanded an excessive fee from the government for this 'rescue' that was turned down. Branson only subsequently agreed to waive the costs provided the UK Government insured the plane to avoid losing face.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
767nutter
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:10 am

Ever since Virgin started doing Australian routes its been Virgin Vs BA/Qantas.

Since BA and Qantas have an agreement on the number of flights between them and they lease each other 747's they got even closer when Virgin introduced the flights to Australia.

I can remember Richard Branson asking the CEO of Qantas to dress up in drag if Virgins inaugral flight met the deadline, of course the flight did but the CEO never dressed up!
 
chrisrad
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:32 am

I would have thought SQ vs. MH would have been obvious
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KFly
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:39 am



Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 24):
I would have thought SQ vs. MH would have been obvious

I don't think MH is quite in the same league as SQ. Depends on the market, it would be

SQ vs CX (Asia and NA)
SQ vs QF (Kangaroo)
SQ vs EK (Kangaroo and Europe)

K
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fxra
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:41 am

FDX vs UPS

SWA vs (insert any US domestic passenger carrier name ere)
Visualize Whirled Peas
 
SQ772
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:44 am



Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 24):
I would have thought SQ vs. MH would have been obvious

I don't think so considering they're not in the same playing field. For sure, SQ views airlines such as CX, QF, EK as real contenders. MH, just haven't got their act together to pose any real competition to anyone lately.

If anything, I would think that MH's obvious competitor is Air Asia....
There's always a better way to fly...
 
Rj111
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:46 am

JL and NH must be up there surely?
 
SQ772
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:46 am



Quoting KFly (Reply 25):
I don't think MH is quite in the same league as SQ. Depends on the market, it would be

SQ vs CX (Asia and NA)
SQ vs QF (Kangaroo)
SQ vs EK (Kangaroo and Europe)

Saw your post just as I submitted mine... almost identical post... right down to the different airlines!  Wink
There's always a better way to fly...
 
chrisrad
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:53 am



Quoting KFly (Reply 25):
I don't think MH is quite in the same league as SQ. Depends on the market, it would be



Quoting SQ772 (Reply 27):
I don't think so considering they're not in the same playing field. For sure, SQ views airlines such as CX, QF, EK as real contenders. MH, just haven't got their act together to pose any real competition to anyone lately.

If anything, I would think that MH's obvious competitor is Air Asia....

The thread is about rivalry if I read correctly? Not being in the same league...... Dont tell me there have never been nationalistic rivalry between the 2 airlines. Funny a put-down coming from a Singaporean... would have never guessed..  Yeah sure
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SQ772
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:59 am



Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 30):
Dont tell me there have never been nationalistic rivalry between the 2 airlines. Funny a put-down coming from a Singaporean... would have never guessed..

Nationalistic rivalry... between MH and SQ? C'mon, would two close brothers be rivals? SQ has never regarded MH as their rival. Friends, partners perhaps. Is that a put-down?  Wink
There's always a better way to fly...
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:08 am

We'll soon see the 9W - IT rivalry in international skies too.

Now that is someting to really watch out for.

http://adoholik.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/kingfisher_jet1.jpg
 
sandrozrh
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:21 am



Quoting AirIndia (Reply 32):
We'll soon see the 9W - IT rivalry in international skies too.

Now that is someting to really watch out for.

Great pic  rotfl 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned LH vs. AB yet.
 
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:26 am



Quoting BestWestern (Reply 14):
Ryanair / window blinds

It costs around $220,000 to have window blinds on one 189-seat 738, so around $36.52m for FR's fleet of 166 738s. Do they add sufficient value to the customer experience to justify the expense?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:31 am



Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 30):
Not being in the same league.....

Indeed. Isn't it obivous?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
castroprauxel
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:40 am



Quoting RJ111 (Reply 28):
JL and NH must be up there surely?

Yep. I think OZ and KE is also obvious.

Quoting SandroZRH (Reply 33):
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned LH vs. AB yet

I'm not sure LH is really take AB competition seriously... they might bite into the german market, but as we know LH has a lot of hold outside this market as well. AB is, in its current operations, still pretty much an O&D airline.

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 32):
We'll soon see the 9W - IT rivalry in international skies too

LOL... oh wow. now that's blunt advertising!
great pic, AirIndia  bigthumbsup 
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:51 am

Very few carriers are direct competitors, as with most there are route differences (e.g. the European majors are have their home hubs) or there are major size differences (e.g. BA VS)

I guess the middle eastern carriers are major rivals (EK, EY Qatar etc) as they are all competiting on connecting traffic, and all growing rapidly)
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curlyheadboy
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:53 am



Quoting BestWestern (Reply 14):
Not against airlines, but

Alitalia / European Union
Olympic / Gravity
Air France / Aircraft washers
Ryanair / window blinds
Virgin Atlantic / Humility
Qantas / the letter U

LOL!!! That was a smart one!  Wink

May I add:

LH Vs PTVs
Northwest Vs fleet renewal

:D
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caspritz78
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:59 am



Quoting United1 (Reply 6):
Lufthansa vs Air France

No. I don't think so. Air France and Lufthansa have set their claims. The competition between Air France and British Airways is stronger especially since Air France has a flight to LAX from LHR. Lufthansa's biggest competitor for domestic and European flights is Air Berlin but they know how to deal with them.
 
deaphen
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:40 pm



This is actually a shot a few days later!!
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cloudyapple
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:54 pm

My vote goes to Koreanair and Asiana. They run flights on identical routes at back to back times. They even compete for the first to get pushed back.
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BCAL
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:01 pm

Some examples from FR's aircraft

First, Latehansa


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Carl Hendriks - MST-Aviation



Then it warmed up


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Frank Kuehne
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Markus Schuster



Then it was Alitalia's turn


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeroen Stroes - Dutch Aviation Photography



And then AF


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Photo © Carl Hendriks - MST-Aviation



Iberia will be next. They are currently adding the finishing touches to "Hasta La Vista Iberia"  biggrin 

Not to be outdone, the Beared One followed their lead with No WayBA/AA


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin

MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
sccutler
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:15 pm

"Back in the day," it was BN v AA, and we all know how that worked out.

WN v B6?

Southwest runs an airline for successful operations, and while what B6 (and every other carrier in the marketplace) does is of interest, WN bases their business choices on a sound business case for each, not silly perceptions of rivalry.

Jetblue was and is a brilliant start-up, but they are hardly a threat to Southwest, especially on financial terms.
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Beaucaire
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:25 pm



Quoting United1 (Reply 6):
Lufthansa vs Air France

There is actually not much competition between the two airlines - both companies have a high opinion of their opponent but that competition rarely becomes tough,unfair or harsh.
The turf is well set and both are big enough to acknowledge the markets of the other in a quite professional matter.I've never read any unpleasant remarks comming from one top-manager over his opponent's company.
I'd say Emirates is the toughest competitor for LH on ME/Asia and BA/AA and KLM on transatlatic.
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767nutter
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:27 pm

Emirates and Etihad,
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:31 pm

Easyjet vs. Who?  Big grin
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767nutter
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:36 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 46):
Easyjet vs. Who

eerrrrrrr SWA?
 Big grin
 
BestWestern
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:42 pm

Interstingly, full page article in todays Guardian about the spat between BA and Virgin, with BA getting annoyed with Virgins PR spinning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2.../08/britishairways.virginatlantic1
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shamrock350
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RE: Biggest Rivalry Between 2 Airlines

Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:58 pm

Here are some examples of the Aer Lingus v Ryanair battle over the years:

1. Aer Lingus challenges Ryanair on "untruthful and grossly misleading" fares publicity

Quote:
The advertisement is obviously untruthful and grossly misleading. The result of all this bizarre but basic financial miscalculation by Ryanair is to vastly and knowingly inflate the Aer Lingus "average" fare.

To put it into perspective, if the figure quoted by Ryanair was correct, Aer Lingus would make profits in the order of €700 million euro this year and while I will modestly admit that we are good we're not quite that good yet."

aerlingus.com Dublin, 13 May 2003

2. Walk-over victory for Willie Walsh as Ryanair CEO goes "no-show"on "Late Late"

Quote:
It is time to put some questions to Michael O'Leary:

* Why did he publish information about Aer Lingus fares that he had to know was untrue?
* Why does he refuse to publish the true information on Aer Lingus average fares that he now has?
* Why will he not publish the equivalent Ryanair fares information to enable a "like for like" comparison? (His words, not ours.)

Answer:
Aer Lingus is now a low fares airline and Michael O'Leary does not like it.

aerlingus.com Dublin, 16 May 2003

3. Ryanair ready to renew Aer Lingus fight

Quote:
Stephen McNamara, a spokesman for Ryanair, said: “As the current wave of European airline mergers and takeovers gathers pace, it is clear that Aer Lingus is being marginalised on the sidelines of European aviation, losing money, with no apparent strategy to return to profitability.

“Its independence strategy, which over the past year has delivered higher fares, a sixfold increase in fuel surcharges, route closures in Ireland, and a lurch to substantial losses has failed its customers, its staff and has failed to secure Aer Lingus's long-term viability.”

Time Online September 2008

4. Ryanair Highlights Aer Lingus’ Tortoise Like Punctuality

Quote:
“Aer Lingus can’t match Ryanair’s fares, they won’t match Ryanair’s no fuel surcharge guarantee and they can’t match Ryanair’s punctuality either. Their punctuality is appalling, so passengers who use Aer Lingus not only face high fares and ever increasing fuel surcharges, they now face delays on almost every second flight operated by Aer Lingus.

“Aer Lingus is the tortoise of Irish Aviation. If their delays continue next month we’ll send them a Viagra since they clearly need help to transform their performance”.

ryanair.com August 2008

5. Aer Lingus, Ireland's favourite airline.

Quote:
Aer Lingus, the national airline of Ireland, is renowned for the ultimate combination of great fares and superb service. With a reputation for friendliness and warmth, synonymous with being Irish - Aer Lingus is Ireland's favourite airline.

Aer Lingus December 2007

So it's been quite a bitter relationship!

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