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Ferroviarius
Topic Author
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:28 am

Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:26 pm

Good afternoon,

as many will know, the longest long haul flights at present ar SQ's services SIN-EWR and SIN-LAX, both operated using A345s. The flight time for SIN-EWR varies a little bit and is normally 18h 30min to 18h 45 min but occasionally reaches more than 19 h (just checked on their webpage, March 22nd, SQ22 SIN 10:40 - EWR 17:50, flighttime 19h 10min)-

While these flights also cover the longest geographical non-stop distances covered by commercial flights ever, they are not the longest non-stop flights in the time domain.

According to wikipedia available information on the DC-7C, SAS in the 60s had non-stop services LAX-CPH lasting for more than 20hours with the 7C (no tech stop for refuelling).

Does anybody know something about the seat configuration of these old airliners used for these extremely long non-stop flights? How much crew did they need for these flights? How often was food served to the passengers during these flights?

I know, it's a little bit old stuff, but I thought it was interesting, anyway.

I beg your pardon if this topic had been discussed before. I did, however, not find it.

Best wishes,
Ferroviarius
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5025
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:48 pm

Quoting Ferroviarius (Thread starter):
Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale


Helluva tailwind if a DC-7C can fly for 20 h non-stop LAX-CPH

Didn´t SAS have tech stop in Greenland back then?

/ Mike  
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
Ferroviarius
Topic Author
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:28 am

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:55 pm

Quoting solnabo (Reply 1):
Helluva tailwind if a DC-7C can fly for 20 h non-stop LAX-CPH

Didn´t SAS have tech stop in Greenland back then?

Hej, Solnabo,

DC-7C's range, indeed, appears to have been long enough for the purpose, nearly 10.000km. KLM, which also owned and used 7Cs, made an experimental flight non-stop Long Beach to Paris. Flight time 21h 35min.

SAS did have a stopover when flying from Scandinavia to Tokyo in Anchorage, if I recall correctly, but the LAX-CPH trip appears to have been non-stop.

Best,
Ferroviarius
 
AZA330
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:20 am

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:08 pm

I think Dubai-Houston, about 16hrs and 40 minutes operated by Emirates with a 777LR is among the longest, too...

That is about 1000 less miles than SIN-EWR

[Edited 2010-03-11 11:10:58]
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:43 am

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:58 pm

Quoting AZA330 (Reply 3):
I think Dubai-Houston, about 16hrs and 40 minutes operated by Emirates with a 777LR is among the longest, too...

That is about 1000 less miles than SIN-EWR

Actually, DXB-LAX is a little longer than DXB-IAH, but you forgot JNB-ATL.

This is the complete top 6 list:
1. EWR-SIN (SQ): 9,535 mi, 18h45
2. LAX-SIN (SQ): 8,770 mi, 17h55
3. JNB-ATL (DL): 8,439 mi, 16h40
4. DXB-LAX (EK): 8,339 mi, 16h25
5. LAX-BKK (TG): 8,270 mi, 18h00
6. DXB-IAH (EK): 8,168 mi, 16h20

However, I believe Ferroviarius started this thread in order to talk about SK's LAX-CPH DC-7C service during the 1960s.
 
tayser
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RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:59 pm

Not the longest, but the longest scheduled flight to/from Australia at the moment would be either VA/QF flying LAX-MEL 15h 45m - 16h was my scheduled time on VA12 the other week (only ended up being 15h 15m however). Followed by YVR-SYD on AC which is showing as 15h 25m on AC's site atm.
 
AZA330
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:20 am

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:35 pm

Quoting OlympicATH (Reply 4):
Actually, DXB-LAX is a little longer than DXB-IAH, but you forgot JNB-ATL.

Wow... I did not even know about JNB-ATL... Now the real question is... how does it feel to be on a plane for that long?  
 
Gemuser
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:07 pm

The worlds longest ever regularly scheduled airline flight, in time taken, was QFs PER-CMB service in 1943-44. Flight time was up to 32 hours in stripped down PBY flying boats, carrying up to 5 pax and a ton of mail. QF called it their "Double Sunrise" service.

They left PER around 10:00 pm (depending on the tide) and flew in radio silence non stop to CMB, sometime deviating far to the west away from the great circle track to avoid Japanese aircraft. The PBYs were so overloaded with fuel that for the first 10 hours or so of the flight the aircraft's single engine service ceiling was below sea level! Obviously the service was only operated this way due to war time requirements.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
Ferroviarius
Topic Author
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:28 am

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:31 pm

Quoting gemuser (Reply 7):
The worlds longest ever regularly scheduled airline flight, in time taken, was QFs PER-CMB service in 1943-44. Flight time was up to 32 hours in stripped down PBY flying boats, carrying up to 5 pax and a ton of mail. QF called it their "Double Sunrise" service.

This was an interesting information. Thank you, Gemuser.

Best,

Ferroviarius
 
LAXDESI
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RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:39 pm

Quoting AZA330 (Reply 6):
Wow... I did not even know about JNB-ATL... Now the real question is... how does it feel to be on a plane for that long?

I have flown LAX-BKK both in J and Y. I slept close to 8 hours when flying in J, and therefore it was bearable. I don't sleep well sitting up (in Y) and end up in a zombie like state. The IFE system is excellent and helps a lot to kill time.

The return flight BKK-LAX is much shorter--about 14.5 hours.
 
Josh32121
Posts: 291
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:02 am

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:02 pm

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 9):
I don't sleep well sitting up (in Y) and end up in a zombie like state.

That's what AmbienCR is for! I flew ATL-NRT in Y on a 744 last fall and was awake for only about 4 hours of of the 14:20 block time...perfect!
ATLien
 
ARN
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:11 pm

[quote=solnabo,reply=1]Helluva tailwind if a DC-7C can fly for 20 h non-stop LAX-CPH



I had the impression that SAS during those days made a stop at Winnipeg on route to LAX. If headwinds were strong they decended already in Sondre Stromfjord (todays Kangerlussuac). This was according to a book I read somewhere. Sorry, no source. Just to emphasize that I am not speculating.

I guess during some circumstances they could fly CPH - LAX nonstop.

'
 
Viscount724
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RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:39 pm

TWA operated the L-1649A Starliner, the final and longest-range model of the Constellation series, nonstop between LHR and LAX/SFO and between ORY and SFO in the late 1950s until replaced by long-range 707s. When winds were adverse they sometimes required a fuel stop. I believe one westbound TWA L-1649A LHR-SFO may still hold the record for the longest duration scheduled flight. I think it was airborne for over 23 hours.


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The January 12, 1959 TWA timetable shows those flights with following scheduled block times:

LAX-LHR 19:15
LHR-SFO 21:10 (westbound flights stopped at SFO then continued to LAX)
SFO-ORY 19:45
ORY-SFO 22:10

The timetable has a symbol against those flights reading: "A fuel stop may be necessary."

Quoting ARN (Reply 11):
I had the impression that SAS during those days made a stop at Winnipeg on route to LAX. If headwinds were strong they decended already in Sondre Stromfjord (todays Kangerlussuac). This was according to a book I read somewhere. Sorry, no source. Just to emphasize that I am not speculating.

When SAS began the CPH-LAX route they used the DC-6B and stopped at SFJ and also made a fuel stop (no traffic rights) at YWG. When they replaced the DC-6B with the longer-range DC-7C, I think the YWG stop was dropped but the SFJ stop remained both ways. When their early DC-8-30s were introduced on the route I think they still stopped at SFJ. Nonstop service began when longer-range DC-8-62/63s were introduced a few years later, followed by the 747-200, DC-10-30, 762ER and 763ER.

SAS was the first carrier with direct service via the polar route between Europe and the west coast of North America when CPH-LAX began in 1954. Canadian Pacific was next a year later when they started YVR-AMS-YVR, also with a fuel stop at SFJ initially (sometimes at other points like Goose Bay depending on routing). DC-6B was used initially, followed by the Bristol Britannia (they could occasionally do it nonstop when winds were favorable), and then DC-8s in the early 1960s which eliminated the fuel stops, although many flights made a traffic stop at either YYC or YEG..
 
MSYPI7185
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:45 pm

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:01 am

IIRC I had read somewhere that KLM? would use dry ice to super cool the wings of a Connie? to enable them to get more fuel into the wings in order to make the flight nonstop from west coast US to AMS. I need to dig up info on this, just going off the top of my head. Maybe someone here has read something similar and can correct my errors.

The above flight I am think about IIRC flew SFO-AMS and it was a revenue flight.

I found the following on a DC-7C reg number N904ME. When it was delivered to KLM from the factory at Long Beach, CA for the flight to Paris, FR. the wings were packed with dry ice to get the maximum amount of fuel in the wings to make the flight non-stop which it did.

MD

[Edited 2010-03-11 21:21:21]
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Ultralong Flights, On A Time Scale

Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:41 am

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 13):
IIRC I had read somewhere that KLM? would use dry ice to super cool the wings of a Connie? to enable them to get more fuel into the wings in order to make the flight nonstop from west coast US to AMS. I need to dig up info on this, just going off the top of my head. Maybe someone here has read something similar and can correct my errors.

The above flight I am think about IIRC flew SFO-AMS and it was a revenue flight.

KLM had no service to SFO (or LAX) until many years after their piston-engine aircraft had been retired. If memory correct, they didn't start service to LAX before the late 1970s, or possibly early 1980s, and I don't think they served SFO until sometime in the 1990s.

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