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FlySSC
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AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 4:47 am

Starting June 12th, Air France is planning to use one of its A380 on a daily trip CDG-LHR-CDG for crew training.

The 4th A380 for AF, cn 049, was due to be delivered in October 2010 but Airbus is "pushing" to deliver it earlier this year in August so AF has to speed up the Crew qualification and training program to be able to operate F-HPJD.

The flight should be :

AF1980 - CDG. 10:05 ---> LHR. 10:25

AF1981 - LHR. 12:50 ----> CDG. 15:25

It will be offered as 80C / 449Y (First Class will not be sold).

 
babybus
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 5:27 am

Wow! Will the timetable at time of booking confirm that or would be left to guess there hasn't been an aircraft change?

I'll sign up for that one!
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
goldorak
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 5:59 am

Waouhh that's fun !!! I'll sign for it also   

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
The 4th A380 for AF, cn 049, was due to be delivered in October 2010 but Airbus is "pushing" to deliver it earlier this year in August so AF has to speed up the Crew qualification and training program to be able to operate F-HPJD.

he he, this is the 1st time Airbus is early to deliver an A380   
 
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N14AZ
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:09 am

Interesting, thanks for the information.

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
The 4th A380 for AF, cn 049, was due to be delivered in October 2010 but Airbus is "pushing" to deliver it earlier this year in August

I think this is due to their target of 20 A 380s this year. I wasn't aware that aircraft manufacturers can deliver airframes earlier then planned. Doesn't put this the airline under pressure regarding financing?

MSN 049 arrived in XFW on February 26th 2010. Adding the usual 6 months between ferry flight to XFW and delivery and you come to August 2010.

Do you know when they are planning to take over AF # 5, MSN 052? As per your previous information it was spring 2011.
 
AF773
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:14 am

So far AF website still shows a choice of 32X for LHR but as soon as the A388 is uploaded I am sure to book a little hop across the Channel...  

FlySSC, any chance you might be working AF682 to ATL on July 7th? I hould be on the upper deck that day...  
Next flights: NCE-CFR; NCE-CDG-NTE; TLN-ORY-PTP; TLN-ORY/CDG-ATL-SAT
 
a380900
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:17 am

I'm not quite sure I'm getting this... They do that for pilot training? Can't they run simulators late at night instead?

Also is that on more flight for the plane during the day after a long haul one or is that what's supposed to keep the plane busy the entire day?

Also does Air France have 3 A380s now or will they stop their service to JNB or JFK in order to do that?

[Edited 2010-05-06 23:18:57]
 
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N14AZ
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:20 am

Quoting A380900 (Reply 5):
Also does Air France have 3 A380s now or will they stop their service to JHA or JFK in order to do that?

They have three A 380s.
 
slz396
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:39 am

Quoting A380900 (Reply 5):
I'm not quite sure I'm getting this... They do that for pilot training? Can't they run simulators late at night instead?

Simulator is just that really, a simulation.

It is not approved to transit straight from the simulator to line operations without having conducted a number of sectors under supervision as final stage of the training and the quickest way to do so and thus to qualify as many pilots as needed as quickly as possible, is to run the plane on short hops for a while.

It is a common thing to do really, whenever a new type of long haul plane is added to a fleet.
 
TWA902fly
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:43 am

Will the schedule also have the ATR-42 in it? In which case I am going to guess that this will be the route with the largest capacity range in the world?

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
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ADent
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:52 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 3):
I wasn't aware that aircraft manufacturers can deliver airframes earlier then planned. Doesn't put this the airline under pressure regarding financing?

I assume they can not force delivery early, but maybe these are not early, but just less delayed?

Anyways if they want to deliver early Airbus can throw something in to make it worth their while - fuel costs for the 'training' flights, discounted maintenance manuals, all future air travel will be on AF/KLM, you take this one early and we will delay BAs first A380, or anything the two parties can agree on.
 
astuteman
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 7:23 am

Quoting ADent (Reply 9):
I assume they can not force delivery early, but maybe these are not early, but just less delayed?

That would by my assumption also...

Rgds
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 7:46 am

This is very nice.
Any idea what these CDG-LHR runs cost?

I hope some of you will do trip reports.

This will be wonderful for LHR plane spotters.
They will have 380s from Singapore, Emirates, Qantas and Air France!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
tim171080
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 8:41 am

Has LHR T4 a 380-ready gate?
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 9:02 am

Dummy reservation on the Air France website:

Flight 1

Votre vol aller
Samedi 12 juin 2010

98 € AF1980 10:05 Paris (CDG) 10:25 Londres (LHR) 01h20 Air France Voyageur Détails
Dernières places disponibles
AF1980 10:05 Paris, Charles de Gaulle - 10:25 Londres, Heathrow Vol sans escale Appareil : Airbus A321


Flight 2

Votre vol retour
Dimanche 13 juin 2010

91 € AF1981 12:50 Londres (LHR) 15:05 Paris (CDG) 01h15 Air France Voyageur
Détails
AF1981 12:50 Londres, Heathrow - 15:05 Paris, Charles de Gaulle Vol sans escale Appareil : Airbus A321

I would buy only if they confirm that the AF 380 will be doing the flights. The website shows a A321 not a A380.

      
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
fcogafa
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 9:07 am

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 12):
Has LHR T4 a 380-ready gate?

Yes, Qantas used T4 with A380s until their move to T3
 
bwvilla
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 9:18 am

Quoting slz396 (Reply 7):
It is not approved to transit straight from the simulator to line operations without having conducted a number of sectors under supervision as final stage of the training and the quickest way to do so and thus to qualify as many pilots as needed as quickly as possible, is to run the plane on short hops for a while.

It is a common thing to do really, whenever a new type of long haul plane is added to a fleet.

This is exactly what AF did when they introduced the 777's (in '96 if I recall correctly) - they operated them on the CDG-LHR-CDG route for a while to allow them to quickly get the required number of pilots qualified
lhr-utc-lhr-sin-bru-cgn-sin
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 9:30 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):
The website shows a A321 not a A380.

The decision was taken very recently and AF is still waiting for Airbus confirmation that F-HPJD can be delivered in august before they launch the information officially with the commercial campaign etc ...

I'll give you more information on this when it will be "official".

Quoting bwvilla (Reply 15):
This is exactly what AF did when they introduced the 777's

And also the B744 back in the early 90s.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 3):
I wasn't aware that aircraft manufacturers can deliver airframes earlier then planned.

Well, this is actually not an "early" delivery, as this aircraft should have delivered already several month ago according to the initial schedule.

All those delays cost a fortune every day to Airbus in compensation, so they want now to deliver their aircraft as soon as they can.
 
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 9:44 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 16):
I'll give you more information on this when it will be "official".

And it's going to be

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
daily

Rather than a one-off?

Just double-checking.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Ychocky
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 12:08 pm

AF1281 LHR-CDG on a A321 was completely full in January when I flew.

I wouldn't mind some extra legroom on the A380!
 
LY777
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 12:13 pm

Quoting bwvilla (Reply 15):
This is exactly what AF did when they introduced the 777's (in '96 if I recall correctly)

It was in 1998 IIRC
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
TheSonntag
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 12:14 pm

And don't forget, such an empty A380 will be a hell of a ride on takeoff, as well  
 
Reggaebird
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 12:48 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Starting June 12th, Air France is planning to use one of its A380 on a daily trip CDG-LHR-CDG for crew training.

The 4th A380 for AF, cn 049, was due to be delivered in October 2010 but Airbus is "pushing" to deliver it earlier this year in August so AF has to speed up the Crew qualification and training program to be able to operate F-HPJD.

The flight should be :

AF1980 - CDG. 10:05 ---> LHR. 10:25

AF1981 - LHR. 12:50 ----> CDG. 15:25

Wow!!!! I wish we had such an opportunity over here in the USA. We enjoy seeing the AF A380 but there haven't been any real deals to fly on it. How many flights will there be altogether.

See this plane at JFK near the end of the video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHkLM9_LDyQ
 
B747forever
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 12:52 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Starting June 12th, Air France is planning to use one of its A380 on a daily trip CDG-LHR-CDG for crew training.

For how long will they send the A380 to LHR?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
fly2yyz
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 1:27 pm

Quoting A380900 (Reply 5):
I'm not quite sure I'm getting this... They do that for pilot training? Can't they run simulators late at night instead?

Not sure if it was even said, but the flight deck aren't the only ones that need training -- as much as they would like to believe. The cabin crew also need to be qualified to work on this aircraft and also getting familiar with equipment, galleys, service flow, so it will be familiarization for everyone.
 
fcogafa
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 2:03 pm

Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 23):
Not sure if it was even said, but the flight deck aren't the only ones that need training -- as much as they would like to believe. The cabin crew also need to be qualified to work on this aircraft and also getting familiar with equipment, galleys, service flow, so it will be familiarization for everyone.

Flight time is around 30 mins, not much time to train anyone!
 
pliersinsight
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 3:13 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 24):
Flight time is around 30 mins, not much time to train anyone!

I'm thinking it will take longer to board and deplane than the actual flight time. I once flew a Northwest DC-10 between Detroit and MSP...and it did take longer to board than the actual flight time.
 
catiii
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 3:19 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
AF1980 - CDG. 10:05 ---> LHR. 10:25

AF1981 - LHR. 12:50 ----> CDG. 15:25

Kind of a long sit in LHR, no? Almost 2.5 hours.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 4:03 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 24):
Quoting Fly2YYZ (Reply 23):
Not sure if it was even said, but the flight deck aren't the only ones that need training -- as much as they would like to believe. The cabin crew also need to be qualified to work on this aircraft and also getting familiar with equipment, galleys, service flow, so it will be familiarization for everyone.

Flight time is around 30 mins, not much time to train anyone!

And most of that flight time will be spent circleing around London waiting for a slot!

Maybe the crew will serve a hot meal and start the IFE entertainment system while over the English channel, to make this a proper training exercise...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 4:08 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 24):
Flight time is around 30 mins, not much time to train anyone!

For pilots, it is sufficient. One take-off, one flight, one landing. That's what counts the most. Whether you spend 10 mins or 10 hours at cruise altitude on auto-pilot does not really make much difference.
When I doubt... go running!
 
lukeyboy95
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 4:17 pm

I think I will definately take this if it becomes confirmed... teh risks in terms of equipment change could be quite high though?

QR did this wehn they got their 777's between DOH and DXB. Its quite an effective idea...
Breaking down the stereotypes - one by one
 
AF Cabin Crew
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 4:41 pm

Ia Orana all !

Just a clarification, The Boeing 744 did its training flights on the CDG-NCE and not LHR and the 777 unlike previous machine never did LHR but went straight to JFK , then IAD and then GRU. I remember as I was one of the first 125 cabin crew on the plane in 1998 and my rosters were only JFK the first month then JFK and IAD the second and JFK IAD and the odd GRU after that !
I also remember complaining to rostering saying that when the aircraft will be on the SIN flight I was sure not to see SIN... Guess what ? never got a SIN unless I requested it ! That's another story tho...

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew !
Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
 
FlySSC
Topic Author
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 4:48 pm

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 30):
Just a clarification, The Boeing 744 did its training flights on the CDG-NCE and not LHR

   I personally flew for the first time on a B744 with AF, F-GITA, on LHR-CDG. I went to LHR especially for this return on a B744.

Quoting catiii (Reply 26):
Kind of a long sit in LHR, no? Almost 2.5 hours.

2h25.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 22):
For how long will they send the A380 to LHR?

Actually, unlike I mentioned, the flight will not be Daily.

It will be 3 x Weekly starting June 12, then 4 x Weekly in July and in Aug.
 
raptors
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 5:01 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter):
Starting June 12th, Air France is planning to use one of its A380 on a daily trip CDG-LHR-CDG for crew training.

There will be several flights spread over a few months however it will not be a daily flight. At the moment it is not confirmed but it is highly likely, 99%

Regards,
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IL6/IL7/I93/DC3/DC8/9/10/M11/M81/M82/M83/M90
 
AF Cabin Crew
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 5:28 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 31):
I personally flew for the first time on a B744 with AF, F-GITA, on LHR-CDG. I went to LHR especially for this return on a B744.

My bad... I remember NCE because it wasn't the usual LHR flights... I believe LH operated the 744 on FRA-BCN...
Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
 
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Vasu
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:33 pm

Hmm... I think that if I can book this flight then I will!
 
ramzi
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:51 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):

They will have 380s from Singapore, Emirates, Qantas and Air France!

I'll be lucky enough to see all four during my visit in July! 
There will come a time when you believe everything is finished - that will be the beginning.
 
FlySSC
Topic Author
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 6:52 pm

Quoting Raptors (Reply 32):
There will be several flights spread over a few months however it will not be a daily flight.

   :

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 31):
It will be 3 x Weekly starting June 12, then 4 x Weekly in July and in Aug.
 
B747forever
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 7:21 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 31):
It will be 3 x Weekly starting June 12, then 4 x Weekly in July and in Aug.

On which days will it operate?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
PGNCS
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 7:42 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 24):
Flight time is around 30 mins, not much time to train anyone!

You realize that the cruise portion of a flight isn't normally the challenge, right?

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 28):
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 24):
Flight time is around 30 mins, not much time to train anyone!


For pilots, it is sufficient. One take-off, one flight, one landing. That's what counts the most. Whether you spend 10 mins or 10 hours at cruise altitude on auto-pilot does not really make much difference.

You hit the nail on the head. Cruise is definitely the easy part; learning to use such a complicated machine makes ground operations, taxi, takeoff, departure, arrival, approach, and landing the most important and difficult phases to master. That's why short legs are ideal for line training.
 
LAXorLGWonDL
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Fri May 07, 2010 7:49 pm

I can't wait to see this! I will do whatever I can to try this one out!!   I have to fly to Germany the 18th...might just be on AF now!  robin
Next Up: STR, JFK, ATL, TPA, ANC
 
raptors
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sat May 08, 2010 10:09 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 37):
On which days will it operate?

Mainly days 6 and 7 although some days 5 and 1 as well.

Regards,
SSC/B11/146/AR8/AT7/A30/A81/AB4/6/310/318-321/332/333/343/346/388/703/722/732-9
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IL6/IL7/I93/DC3/DC8/9/10/M11/M81/M82/M83/M90
 
B747forever
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sat May 08, 2010 10:34 am

Quoting Raptors (Reply 40):
Mainly days 6 and 7 although some days 5 and 1 as well.

Well I hope to see it when I will be in LHR T4 on the 18th of June!
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
fly2yyz
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sat May 08, 2010 12:06 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 24):
Flight time is around 30 mins, not much time to train anyone!

I'm fairly certain that crews do have to report to the aircraft early. Get prepared, get to know their galley diagrams, know service flow. Not just hop on the plane and ready to take off. I'm pretty certain last time I few AF on this really short flight I did receive a meal and the flight attendants were running around like crazy due to the short flight time. So yeah you're right the flight time is not much time to train anyone...but its proving route isn't it? To give the crew familiarization both front and back end.

I wouldn't say its very trivial this 30 minutes, every minute on a new aircraft is valuable so improvements can be made in the way things are structured and so its worth every minute of this short sector. Sorry they can't be testing this flight to NRT as I believe you may want.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sat May 08, 2010 1:24 pm

I wonder if AF will allow an overnight stay at same cost on these special flights when the 380 does the trip 2 days in a row?  

Would make a good opportunity for a LHR plane spotting trip. I hope they will think about it for those who might want to overnight in London.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
HT
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sat May 08, 2010 1:48 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 43):
I wonder if AF will allow an overnight stay at same cost on these special flights when the 380 does the trip 2 days in a row?  

Shouldn't a same-day return be most expensive fare option, followed by a only a single night (not Saturday/Sunday) at the destination ?

Outbound Saturday, return on Sunday should qualify for the lowest fare anyway, which would be possible taking the following info into account:

Quoting Raptors (Reply 40):
Mainly days 6 and 7 although some days 5 and 1 as well.

-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
sean377
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sun May 09, 2010 9:02 am

I don't understand airline booking systems and fare calculations so perhaps someone can enlighten me...

A one way ticket is costing either £219 or £400 depending on which way you travel. A return ticket costs much less, at well under £200. How can this be?

If I was to buy a return ticket and not use the outbound flight, would I be ok to use the return segment?
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man... Landing is the first!
 
ajd1992
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sun May 09, 2010 9:10 am

Quoting sean377 (Reply 45):

If I was to buy a return ticket and not use the outbound flight, would I be ok to use the return segment?

No. If you don't turn up for the outbound they'll cancel your return flight.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sun May 09, 2010 10:25 am

For anyone with even a handful of Flying Blue miles, you can currently get CDG-LHR for 5000 miles plus just under €60 tax. If the A380 is confirmed, then this is what I'll be doing   


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sun May 09, 2010 10:49 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 47):
For anyone with even a handful of Flying Blue miles, you can currently get CDG-LHR for 5000 miles plus just under €60 tax. If the A380 is confirmed, then this is what I'll be doing

This is a very good idea. Will they honour Mileage Awards on these AF A380 route proving flights though?
This still remains to be seen especially if they want to sell capacity and fill up the aircraft.

Let's be realistic now. Other than flying nutheads like us, I don't see who would spend the money for a 2 hours and 30 minutes stay on the ground at Heathrow waiting to board the flight the other way. You have to consider passport control lines, security lines, not much time to even go plane spotting really. Best thing to do is staying air side and musing around. It might be worthwile buying a business class RT just to see the cabin and use the Business lounges while on the ground at both airports.

      
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
HT
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: AF A380 On CDG-LHR-CDG

Sun May 09, 2010 12:21 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 48):
Let's be realistic now. Other than flying nutheads like us, I don't see who would spend the money for a 2 hours and 30 minutes stay on the ground at Heathrow waiting to board the flight the other way.

With A380 operation indicated to be on both Saturday and Sunday, this is perfect for a one night stay - and complying with "Sunday rule" fare goes done, too.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !

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