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thegreatRDU
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Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:14 pm

Some of mine....
-A Q400 or ATR 42/72 Regional airline offering Allegiant-style vacation packages to Northern/Midwest cities based out of HHH/KHXD

-An Allegiant style airline serving Northern border airports like IAG, BLI, and PBG luring Canadian travellers to popular destinations maybe using 733s or older 320s in high density configurations....

-An under 50 seat regional turboprop airline operating flights for a legacy....as more 50 seat CRJs and SF3s are being parked, more cities are losing service...

-An airline based out of RDU with E190s and Q400s serving destinations around the country popular with the local community   
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access-air
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:38 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Thread starter):
-An under 50 seat regional turboprop airline operating flights for a legacy....as more 50 seat CRJs and SF3s are being parked, more cities are losing service...

Id be in favour of this one, but a carrier that restores more local service to communities that doesnt require or at least rely entirely on having to hub to get someplace.....However, providing good enuff service to not need to also rely on a legacy carrier for its business...
One step further, a regional airline that would connect smaller outlying airports to Southwest Airlines at their hubs, errrr um focus cities....

Access-Air
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airzim
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:56 pm

Reality check, there are not going to be anymore start ups for the foreseeable future.

Reasons:

1) There are no pilots. There is going to be a huge wave of retirements at US majors. The regionals will attempt to fill in, but there's very little downline supply in the chain. Plus with the increase in hours required, there's an even larger gap to fill with available talent. The US might allow foreign pilots to work in the US, but at the moment, it is very hard to hire someone not a US resident.

2) No planes. Historically, start ups raid the used markets for cheap airplanes to start operations. Today, there are very few capable planes left. The used market is a basket case, so most older planes are turned into beer cans. New aircraft are expensive and you'll have to wait for delivery slots in the multi year future.

These are two huge hurdles to overcome. Couple this with the new mega US carriers, lack of available airport capacity in cities where there's demand, and few new opportunities to exploit untapped demand and you've got a very large hill to climb.
 
thegreatRDU
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:11 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 2):
No planes.

   C'mon Zim, planes are being parked left and right....there are plenty of older A320s, 733s, MD80s, SF3s, CRJs, ERJs out there....low to acquire expensive to maintain however....
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airzim
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:18 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 3):
   C'mon Zim, planes are being parked left and right....there are plenty of older A320s, 733s, MD80s, SF3s, CRJs, ERJs out there....low to acquire expensive to maintain however....

There's no market for used RJ's and props. They're too expensive to operate and there's no demand for them. They're destined for the scrap heap. Nobody is dumb enough to start a new carrier solely on RJ's. ACA and XJet are two great examples of why it doesn't work.

The other planes you mentioned are way too fuel inefficient at today's oil prices. MD80s = Bud Light cans.

Plus you haven't addressed who's going to fly these planes?
 
santi319
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:20 pm

A new airline based in MIA, with operations to Latin America and the Caribbean, with fuel efficient A320 family planes and equipped with a sort of like a low cost- first class like Air Tran does. High Efficency, departures to the biggest hubs in Latin America as well as the largest most populated cities in the United States.. It will kill AA in Miami!!!!! It will work the way NK has worked but BETTER!

Or a low cost based in Buenos Aires, with flights through South America, no first class all coach....
 
access-air
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:25 pm

Thats why relying on mega hubs lorded over by mega carriers is not the way to go...
You have to create your own niche......offer an alternative to the Hub and Spoke....more linear in operation that bypasses the need for a major hub....

Access-Air
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:32 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 2):
Reality check, there are not going to be anymore start ups for the foreseeable future.

Lets place bets.. I Say There will be startups .. quite a few. Whether they are wise and have a good business plan will be a completely different thing lol.

There was the new MD80 low cost airline in the caribbean.

Comlux in Malta. Illyrian Air in Kosovo etc etc

[Edited 2010-12-01 11:37:26]
 
Metjetceo
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:33 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 4):
ACA and XJet are two great examples of why it doesn't work.

Examples of why it does not work for $40 tickets, but I am a firm believer that there are several markets where RJ service at reasonable ticket prices for shorter hauls will work fine. FYI right now everyone out of GRB has to pay about $400 RT to go to DTW, and dont have an option to get to MDW and other cities.
 
delimit
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:34 pm

An all business carrier between NYC and London, with no ties to any alliance or major carrier's FF program...wait...
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:38 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 9):
An all business carrier between NYC and London, with no ties to any alliance or major carrier's FF program...wait...

Aww RIP Silverjet.
 
thegreatRDU
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:42 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 4):

The other planes you mentioned are way too fuel inefficient at today's oil prices. MD80s = Bud Light cans.

Allegiant seems to be doing good...used props can work as they can profitably serve smaller cities...a 733 or 735 equipped with winglets can put in work....The RJs I'm not denying but their available for next to nothing....

Quoting airzim (Reply 4):
Plus you haven't addressed who's going to fly these planes?

The pilot issue is overblown...the puppy mills can still stamp pilots with little hours...you might have to pay them more however

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 7):
Lets place bets.. I Say There will be startups .. quite a few.

Me too there will be startups...I'm not saying they will be the next B6......

The nichier the better
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flyguy89
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:44 pm

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 6):
Thats why relying on mega hubs lorded over by mega carriers is not the way to go...
You have to create your own niche......offer an alternative to the Hub and Spoke....more linear in operation that bypasses the need for a major hub....

I agree, point-to-point is the way to go for a start up. PS...I like your screen name  
Quoting airzim (Reply 4):

The other planes you mentioned are way too fuel inefficient at today's oil prices. MD80s = Bud Light cans.

uh...Allegiant? They've pretty much proven that it doesn't really matter how fuel-inefficient the planes are as long as your costs are kept in check.

Quoting airzim (Reply 4):

Plus you haven't addressed who's going to fly these planes?

Honestly that's not the biggest problem that a start-up would face, especially if they were choosing to fly the likes of the Q400, PLENTY of out-of-work pilots to choose from for that. The pilot shortage issue is a problem but it's not as grave as you're painting it, at least not to the point where it would prohibit a new carrier from starting operations.
 
planesailing
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:45 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 9):
An all business carrier between NYC and London, with no ties to any alliance or major carrier's FF program...wait...

Done, done and done and all dust!

In Europe I am not sure that there are too many opportunities available. And if you did suddenly stumble across one, you can be sure that one of the incumbents, be it a legacy or a LCC will jump on the bandwagon with their established brands and possible FF programs.
 
delimit
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:45 pm

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 11):
733 or 735 equipped with winglets can put in work

Can you put winglets on either of those? I thought they had only been approved for NGs.
 
thegreatRDU
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:24 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 14):
Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 11):
733 or 735 equipped with winglets can put in work

Can you put winglets on either of those

Of course they can be retrofitted....take a look in the database...
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B747forever
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RE: Startup Business Models You Think Will Work

Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:43 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 14):
Can you put winglets on either of those? I thought they had only been approved for NGs.

As thegreat RDU said they can be fitted with winglets. I have flown on both the 733 and 735 with winglets.
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