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MHTripple7
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Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:17 pm

Having recently flown ZQN-SYD-OOL on both QF and JQ, I would like to express what a joke of an "alliance" this is.

I booked my itinerary as one ticket on QF's website, www.qantas.com.au, which sold the Jetstar flight as a QF flight number.

While checking in at ZQN, the lady told me that Qantas was not allowed to "unload" to Jetstar, and would not tag my bag through to OOL. She told me that I had to collect my bag and check-in with Jetstar in SYD. This was frustrating, but I have had this happen before when I flew South African from LVI to CPT via JNB.

So when I arrived in SYD, I cleared immigration, collected my bag, and cleared customs. I then followed the signs for Qantas domestic transfers, considering I had just come off a Qantas flight, had a Qantas e-ticket, and was flying on a Qantas codeshare for my next flight.

While at the transfer desk, the lady told me that she could not check me or my bags in, and that I was not allowed to use QF's complimentary transfer service. She told me to go wait for a bus that costs $10AUD to take me to the domestic terminal. I was in a horrible mood at this point, so I went back outside with all of my luggage to wait for this transfer bus. Some guy there told me that it wouldn't come for another 20 minutes. No-can-do, I would miss my flight if were to wait for that bus.

I sprinted to the taxi stand, got a taxi, which costs about $18AUD. I finally arrived at the JQ check-in area just before check-in closed.

Sorry, but airlines should not be allowed to codeshare if they won't check you or your bags through. It is really false advertisement in my opinion, and this was without a doubt the worst airport connection experience of my life. Thank you Qantas and Jetstar!

Has anyone else had similar experiences?
 
Kent350787
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:24 pm

It does seem somewhat unreasonable, given that you were booked on a Qantas itinerary.

Also that you were directed to the $10 bus transfer, rather than the $5 train transfer.......
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Ditzyboy
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:44 pm

http://www.jetstar.com/au/en/planning-and-booking/flight-connections

If you have a Qantas (QF) flight sector in your itinerary and you need to transfer between terminals at Sydney Airport, you can use the Qantas shuttle bus for free.

The problem with the above is that you cannot use this service if you have checked baggage, which may have restricted articles, as you enter the airside part of the Qantas domestic terminal.

The easiest transfer option for you would have been the $5 train between international and domestic. It takes two minutes and trains are every 8-15 minutes.

As Qantas sold you the ticket, you should follow this up with them.

While it is obvious when booking that your flight was operated by Jetstar, the information Qantas provides on baggage transfer and connections is non-existant. There is the pop-up that you must actively go into regarding inflight product regarding codeshare flights op by JQ and information about FF point accrual in the booking page, but nothing else I could find. Personally, I think this is slack.
 
mandala499
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:05 pm

Well...
JQ does NOT provide baggage transfers for QF intl flights to JQ domestic flights.
Details at http://www.jetstar.com/au/en/popup/flight-connections.aspx

On the QF website, one can search for connections between JQ and QF...
One article there: " Through check-in and baggage transfers between Jetstar and Qantas"
It's not a sham because the information is there... BUT, I do think they should make such information more "available" other than having to use the search feature!

A codeshare flight does not always mean you're on the same rules as the airline you booked under... you are bound by the operating rules of the operating carrier for that particular leg.

JQ domestic does not receive transfer baggage, but can transfer baggage to QF.
Codeshares, in my opinion, is a tricky thing anyways, especially when involving two "very different" airlines (albeit one is owned by the other).

Quoting MHTripple7 (Thread starter):
Sorry, but airlines should not be allowed to codeshare if they won't check you or your bags through. It is really false advertisement in my opinion, and this was without a doubt the worst airport connection experience of my life.

A codeshare only means, airline A is allowed to sell tickets on airline B's flights... anything beyond that, is a bonus...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
qfatwa
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:20 am

The main reason for the non-compatability is that the airlines use different booking systems. QANTAS uses the Amadeus system and Jetstar booking engine is Open Skies from Navataire system. This may have even been part of the plan to avoid adding this cost to the operation, to ensure that the systems are not compatible, so that the operations can not co-exist.

The jetstar reservations system is not available in the QANTAS transfer building at T1, nor will QANTAS move bags from T3 to T2 for jetstar.

One of the basis of LCC for jetstar is to minimise transfers of baggage. Even two domestic flights, eg Newcastle-Brisbane & Brisbane-Proserpine require two check-ins of baggage. Less labour and less complications.

QANTAS Mainline could not make their leisure routes profitable. By adopting the LCC basics using jetstar, they have found profitablity. Unfortunately, the loser is customer service, replaced by "customer pays" for each additional service.

Another LLC factor is that crews do not overnight, thus saving on transport, hotel, meal costs - I believe that most JQ domestic flights/crews still hold to this principle.
 
alangirvan
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:42 am

A pity that you did not use the new non stop flight on JQ between ZQN and OOL. This would have solved the problem of trying to connect through SYD.
 
MHTripple7
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:09 am

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 1):
Also that you were directed to the $10 bus transfer, rather than the $5 train transfer.......

I completely forgot about the train. Seems like that's the best option.

Quoting ditzyboy (Reply 2):
While it is obvious when booking that your flight was operated by Jetstar, the information Qantas provides on baggage transfer and connections is non-existant. There is the pop-up that you must actively go into regarding inflight product regarding codeshare flights op by JQ and information about FF point accrual in the booking page, but nothing else I could find. Personally, I think this is slack.

Yes, they should specifically say that bags will not be tagged to your final destination and that you will be "on your own".

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 3):
A codeshare only means, airline A is allowed to sell tickets on airline B's flights... anything beyond that, is a bonus...

Interesting, I always assumed it included baggage transfer and through check-in. It seems that I am mistaken!

Quoting qfatwa (Reply 4):
One of the basis of LCC for jetstar is to minimise transfers of baggage. Even two domestic flights, eg Newcastle-Brisbane & Brisbane-Proserpine require two check-ins of baggage. Less labour and less complications.

That's fine, but I just don't think that QF and JQ should codeshare if this is the case.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 5):

A pity that you did not use the new non stop flight on JQ between ZQN and OOL. This would have solved the problem of trying to connect through SYD.

I don't believe the flight was operating on the day I needed to travel, however, I didn't even know this flight existed. Oops!
 
JQflightie
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:15 am

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 6):

QF codeshare with JQ domestic flights, but do not interline. Therefore your baggage will not be transfered. But if you go the other way around, Domestic JQ flight connecting with another QF or JQ (or any airline that JQ interline with) your bags will be tramsfered.. its all very odd!
When is my next holiday?
 
tayser
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:23 am

Quoting MHTripple7 (Thread starter):
While checking in at ZQN, the lady told me that Qantas was not allowed to "unload" to Jetstar, and would not tag my bag through to OOL.
Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 6):
Yes, they should specifically say that bags will not be tagged to your final destination and that you will be "on your own".

You originated in New Zealand, therefore you can NEVER check your bags through to your final destination in Australia - you must clear customs and immigration & re-check!

Same if I fly MEL-LAX-JFK, I have to do the same thing in LAX and you always have to sight / do something with your bags in LAX.
 
MHTripple7
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:34 am

Quoting tayser (Reply 8):
Same if I fly MEL-LAX-JFK, I have to do the same thing in LAX and you always have to sight / do something with your bags in LAX.

Right, but they will still tag your bags to your final destination. All you have to do is drop them on a conveyor belt after clearing customs. They aren't actually re-tagged in LAX, and the airline is still responsible for getting them to your final destination.
 
zkeoj
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:26 am

Thanks for bringing this up. I learned two things from it:

1. Do not fly on a QF-JQ ticket! Just lowered my already low opinion on QF even more.
2. You have to pay for a transfer between terminals!!! Is there any other airport in the world where you have to pay? I am not talking between two airports (LHR-LGW, JFK-LGA, etc...).

Cheers
micha
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:37 am

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 10):
2. You have to pay for a transfer between terminals!!!

I have to admit that I am pretty shocked by that , although I don't think that QF or JQ can be held responsible for the charge , I suspect the blame lies with the operator of SYD , but regardless it seems outrageous.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:46 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 3):
It's not a sham because the information is there

Unfortunately (for the thread starter) I agree. Admittedly I fly QF a lot and have heard the words "if you are transferring onto a JetStar flight you need to collect your luggage and proceed to the JetStar check-in area" more times than I dare remember as part of the standard arrival PA, but still: this was on their web-site.

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 10):
You have to pay for a transfer between terminals!!! Is there any other airport in the world where you have to pay

Brisbane. Outside of Australia, I'm not aware of any.
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lhr380
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:51 am

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 6):
Interesting, I always assumed it included baggage transfer and through check-in. It seems that I am mistaken!

That's the problem here, people "assume" something will happen and it does not. You went to the QF transfer desk as it was a QF flight number BUT it was operated by Jetstar, so you would always go see the Jetstar staff at the airport.

QF/JQ are a bit like IB/VU. You cant thru check bags onto VU at all, but the difference is VU are handled in LHR at least by IB so its the same system etc.

It does clearly say on the JQ site under checked baggage and flight connections the information you need. You already said you knew the flight was operated by JQ, and they would clearly have different rules for the flight.

I have learned from seeing it happen so many times before, if I ever book a flight that is code shared by another carrier, I will always go to their site to make sure my baggage is the same weight size etc, same with hand luggage.

The QF site could have made it more clearer with regards to the baggage part, but the information is there.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
Airvan00
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:53 am

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 10):
You have to pay for a transfer between terminals!!!

I think you will find that only applies if you are changing airlines. I have transferred QF domestic to QF international and it has always been an air side transfer and free. (air side transfer bus from adjacent gate one in the T3 terminal). It probably varies in the other direction as you would need to clear customs and immigration before proceeding. I'm sure someone will come along here and give us a definitive answer.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:59 am

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 14):
I think you will find that only applies if you are changing airlines.

True, at both SYD and BNE if you're connecting QF-QF it is free (I'm not sure about DJ-VA)
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mariner
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:14 am

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 13):
That's the problem here, people "assume" something will happen and it does not. You went to the QF transfer desk as it was a QF flight number BUT it was operated by Jetstar, so you would always go see the Jetstar staff at the airport.

I wouldn't. If I bought a Qantas ticket, I would go to Qantas. It's my understanding that the issuing, originating airline is always the authority and it's been like that for me.

And if I buy a ticket on, say, United in the US and one leg is an "operated by" flight by another, contracted airline, I'd go to United - LOL - the contracted airlines there don't usually have their own counter.

If I am entering one country from another, then sure, I'd have to go through immigration/custome, but:

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 9):
they will still tag your bags to your final destination. All you have to do is drop them on a conveyor belt after clearing customs. They aren't actually re-tagged in LAX, and the airline is still responsible for getting them to your final destination.


  

I've transferred from one airline to another code-sharing airline at a foreign airport, without entering that country, and I haven't had to deal with my luggage.

But - to the thread starter - thanks for the heads-up.

mariner
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NZ107
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:45 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):
I wouldn't. If I bought a Qantas ticket, I would go to Qantas

But as a member of the general public, would you be expected to know that QF don't operate to OOL while you're given a QF flight number? It doesn't help the situation seeing that QF don't even operate to OOL in this circumstance so there was actually no other option to take.

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):
I've transferred from one airline to another code-sharing airline at a foreign airport, without entering that country, and I haven't had to deal with my luggage.

I'm sure that can be the case again if you were to fly DJ to AKL soon then out to LAX on NZ.. International-Domestic transfers seem like a whole different issue with regards to quarantine etc.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 12):
You have to pay for a transfer between terminals!!! Is there any other airport in the world where you have to pay

Brisbane. Outside of Australia, I'm not aware of any.

Indeed, what's up with these Australian airports!?
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mariner
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:06 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 17):
But as a member of the general public, would you be expected to know that QF don't operate to OOL while you're given a QF flight number? It doesn't help the situation seeing that QF don't even operate to OOL in this circumstance so there was actually no other option to take.

As a (more than reasonably well travelled) member of the general public, if I went to Qantas and said can you fly me to Coolangatta - and they said yes, but part of it is on Jetstar - I'm flying Qantas.

If I went to Qantas and said can you fly me to Tamworth - and they yes, but part of it is on QantasLink - I'm flying Qantas.

In either case, Coolangatta or Tamworth, the flight may be "operated by" another airline, but it is still Qantas.

And if I, fairly airline savvy, don't think there's a difference, then Ethel Dagg from Oodnadatta or Wally Pratt from Waikikamookau might, rightly, get a bit tense

The Qantas Group may be a coat with several pockets, but it is still one coat.

mariner

[Edited 2011-04-13 03:07:45]
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lhr380
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:21 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 16):
I wouldn't. If I bought a Qantas ticket, I would go to Qantas. It's my understanding that the issuing, originating airline is always the authority and it's been like that for me.

If you brought a flight on BA7312 from the BA website, and you came to my counter to check in, I Would tell you to go to Qantas and check in, that's the British Airways flight number but is codeshared on the Qantas service, BA would not check you in. Thats the whole reason behind codeshares, to get the QF (in this case) flight number to more destinations then it serves by sharing its flight number on other airlines, in this case JQ.
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AirNZ
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:22 am

Quoting MHTripple7 (Thread starter):
Sorry, but airlines should not be allowed to codeshare if they won't check you or your bags through.

Except an airline codeshare has nothing whatever to do with an airline interline agreement. People (so call aviation enthusiasts) on a.net are all to quick to assume that a codeshare is a smooth, easy option to getting what they demand.......and ignoring that each airline within the codeshare operate under their own rules and requirements
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lhr380
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:38 am

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 20):
Except an airline codeshare has nothing whatever to do with an airline interline agreement. People (so call aviation enthusiasts) on a.net are all to quick to assume that a codeshare is a smooth, easy option to getting what they demand.......and ignoring that each airline within the codeshare operate under their own rules and requirements

We don't agree often, but I could not agree more with your statement there. People don't read their information properly and just assume things, that cause problems.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:56 am

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 19):
If you brought a flight on BA7312 from the BA website, and you came to my counter to check in, I Would tell you to go to Qantas and check in, that's the British Airways flight number but is codeshared on the Qantas service, BA would not check you in.

Then tell me that it's all b.s. and I'd be flying Qantas and will have to check in with Qantas when I make the booking. I would have the option to decide if I want to continue with the booking. I might - after all - not want to fly Qantas.

If I don't find out until I'm trying to check in, then I'd wonder WTF is going on and probably get quite grumpy. British took my money, my contract is with British.

It seems to me the rules are getting more and more arcane and I have more and more sympathy with pax who are revolting.

It's partly why I will not book complex itineraries on the internet but always use a travel agent, who explains it all to me in simple terms. The other reason being that my travel agent usually gets me great deals.

mariner
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lhr380
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:05 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
Then tell me that it's all b.s. and I'd be flying Qantas and will have to check in with Qantas when I make the booking. I would have the option to decide if I want to continue with the booking. I might - after all - not want to fly Qantas.
Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
If I don't find out until I'm trying to check in, then I'd wonder WTF is going on and probably get quite grumpy. British took my money, my contract is with British.

It does!!! It clearly says flight operated by Qantas! As it does in the Thread starters case. I went and checked the Qantas website out and it says flight operated by Jetstar.

Go check it out on either site. This is what can be annoying. People don't read things! The info is in plain sight. The only person you should be grumpy at in this case is yourself for not reading what you were booking... (In the example you gave me)
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:11 am

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 23):
It does!!! It clearly says flight operated by Qantas! As it does in the Thread starters case. I went and checked the Qantas website out and it says flight operated by Jetstar.

I don't care who it is "operated by" - my contract, in the case you mentioned, would be with British.

Go back to my post #16 and United and United Express. I deal with United.

If I fly teensy Frontier Airlines CUN-DEN-SBA, then DEN-SBA will be "operated by" Republic Airlines - but I'd be intrigued if you could tell me where the Republic check-in desk is at DEN.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Airvan00
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:26 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
Then tell me that it's all b.s. and I'd be flying Qantas and will have to check in with Qantas when I make the booking. I would have the option to decide if I want to continue with the booking. I m
Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
Then tell me that it's all b.s. and I'd be flying Qantas and will have to check in with Qantas when I make the booking. I would have the option to decide if I want to continue with the booking.

I recently flew QF3364 from AMS to LHR. Which check in desk did I use at Schiphol, QF or BA? Hint there isn't a Qantas desk at Schiphol
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:33 am

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 25):
recently flew QF3364 from AMS to LHR. Which check in desk did I use at Schiphol, QF or BA? Hint there isn't a Qantas desk at Schiphol

I once flew SYD-BKK on Qantas and then BKK-BGW on Iraqi. Guess which check-in desk I used. Hint: Iraqi didn't have a check-in desk at BKK then.

In those days I was flying RTW at least once a year, often using "unusual" airlines. But my travel always booked the first segment on a "responsible" airline so that they became the originating, issuing airline, the contract airline, and were easier to deal with if something went wrong.

mariner

[Edited 2011-04-13 04:35:00]
aeternum nauta
 
Airvan00
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:45 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 26):
I once flew SYD-BKK on Qantas and then BKK-BGW on Iraqi. Guess which check-in desk I used. Hint: Iraqi didn't have a check-in desk at BKK then.

Was BKK-BGW on a QF flight number?
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:55 am

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 27):
Was BKK-BGW on a QF flight number?

LOL - a QF flight number on Iraqi? No. But the Frontier to Republic flight has a Frontier flight number and there is no Republic check-in desk. Anywhere.

The point remains. If I fly Qantas to QantasLink, the second flight will be "operated by" a second airline but I will deal with Qantas.

Apparently, that is not so with Qantas to Jetstar, which is, to say the least, inconsistent.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Airvan00
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:10 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
LOL - a QF flight number on Iraqi?

I sort of knew that LOL,. Well then we are talking at cross purposes. I have always treated JQ as a completely separate airline to Qantas. It is marketed here as a separate airline with a separate identity with about as much in common as AF's relationship to QF.
 
baroque
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:20 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
Ethel Dagg from Oodnadatta

Correction, Ethel Dagg is from Taihape and last time I looked Taihape was in New Zealand????
 
lhr380
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RE: Qantas & Jetstar Alliance: What A Sham!

Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:29 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
I don't care who it is "operated by" - my contract, in the case you mentioned, would be with British.

Then you would be going nowhere fast if you refused to go and check in with the carrier your flying with!! It says quiet clearly who your flying with, OP by Qantas in my example.
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