slimshady
Topic Author
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:33 pm

My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 10:20 pm

May 19, 2013
To whom it may concern;
I few on flight number UA1237 from ONT to IAH on May 19, 2013, and I am writing to you today to express my disappointment and frustration of seeing two fully uniformed pilots sitting in First Class while qualified people with Gold Status were bumped to economy class. It is irrelevant whether I was going to be upgraded or not, in my judgment it is extremely tacky and goes against every statement United Airlines has made in the name of customer service.
As a member with Gold status, I was shocked to see two pilots who claimed to be “deadheading” and enjoying the benefits that come with sitting in first class. While I did not get their names, I did overhear one claim that he was in training while he sat down in his seat. What especially stings is that I paid just as much money for this trip (record locator XXXXXX) from ONT to TUL as I did for my trip (record locator XXXXXX) from LAX to PVG. I have never written a letter of complaint to an airline before, but I feel this is warranted because this stoops way below the already low standards I have for US based airlines.
While it would be nice to see some sort of reply, my expectation is that this will be ignored and filed away with the numerous amount of complaints I am sure United receives on a daily basis. But if for some reason, United chooses to reply, I would like to have an explanation which supports the decision to let uniformed crew members bump frequent fliers who earn gold or higher status.
Again, I hope you know that regardless of the outcome of this letter, I will keep this in mind when making decisions of which carrier to choose.
Sincerely,

Name withheld for Airliners.net



If I knew I would be treated better on Delta or American, I would be gone in a heartbeat....
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 10:25 pm

I'm wondering if this is a contractual issue with their pilots; that they get a first class seat if the cabin is not filled with fare paying passengers.

I'd post this up in flyertalk as well, you can bet they'll hit the roof hearing this story.
 
tonystan
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 10:37 pm

Hahahahahahaha

Oh dear!!!

Mate, it's in their agreements and it happens at almost every airline!!!!!!!
Just like businesses pay for their personnel to travel first for business travel likewise airlines do the same with their "management"!

I suggest you get over it and realise that this is standard policy industry wide and likewise PAY for your own First seat next time so as to save you any embarrassment! You are not above others.

[Edited 2013-05-20 15:44:13]
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
mcdu
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 10:39 pm

Contractual requirement when traveling to training or if you are flying a ofher leg in the duty period after the deadhead sevment. If you would like a first class seat you can purchase those with no restrictions. Giving away the seat for an upgrade of providing it to a contract requirement provides zero revenue to the company. Just buy that seat if you really want to be seated in F class. Otherwise just consider yourself unlucky in not having the status to get to the top of the upgrade list.

It is the company's inventory to administer how they see fit.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 10:46 pm

Even if we ignore your "ignorance" of how things work in the industry, the way your letter is structured just makes it ripe for the trash can anyways.
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 10:48 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 3):
Contractual requirement when traveling to training or if you are flying a ofher leg in the duty period after the deadhead sevment. If you would like a first class seat you can purchase those with no restrictions.

I know this probably never happens, but just out of curiosity, what would happen if the entire First Class Cabin was full with passengers who had purchased a ticket? Would the pilots have to sit in Business or Coach Class, or would one or more fare-paying passengers be bumped?

LoneStarMike
 
QANTASvJet
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 10:52 pm

Well, if you wanted to know why most Americans loathe the airlines, and if you wanted evidence of just how much airline employees and airline junkies disrespect the people who pay the wages, now you have it. 'Just consider yourself unlucky' and 'get over it'. No, don't.
 
PEK777
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 10:59 pm

Gold Status and you are expecting first class? I was between Platinum and 1K before I even got close to an upgrade on a US domestic flight, and it still is extremely rare. 19% of my gross income (out of my own pocket) went to this airline last year, but I don't expect them to be handing me upgrades. Be happy with what you've got.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:02 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
I'm wondering if this is a contractual issue with their pilots; that they get a first class seat if the cabin is not filled with fare paying passengers.

I would be veering towards this.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 2):
Mate, it's in their agreements and it happens at almost every airline!!!!!!!
Just like businesses pay for their personnel to travel first for business travel likewise airlines do the same with their "management"!

Those pilots were travelling for business, I can see how it might annoy the writer, however they have an agreement with their employer. Just because 1 was 'in training' doesn't mean he is less entitled. (And 'in training' does not me a new recruit,perhaps he is doing command tests, or typrerating....)

Many walks of life have perks, this is a perk for flight crew.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 5):
what would happen if the entire First Class Cabin was full with passengers who had purchased a ticket? Would the pilots have to sit in Business or Coach Class, or would one or more fare-paying passengers be bumped?

I suppose it depends on the airline, but I cannot see how any airline/union could defend bumping a revenue pax for a positioning crew member unless the crewmember was critical to getting another flight off the ground (and in that case there are jumpseats avail)

Now the letter writer states that pax were "bumped" is he 100% sure? This I would have issue with.
And how did they "claim to be deadheading"? Perhaps they were?
 
mcdu
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:03 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 5):
I know this probably never happens, but just out of curiosity, what would happen if the entire First Class Cabin was full with passengers who had purchased a ticket? Would the pilots have to sit in Business or Coach Class, or would one or more fare-paying passengers be bumped?

The seat has to be available to book at time of travel. If it isn't booked you go on upgrade list BEHIND gentleman like the letter writer. This is also only on the way TO training that the seat is confirmed in F. The return can be booked in F but you can be downgraded to coach of F is sold to capacity. It is always revenue that gets you pushed to coach.

With the reduction in service levels there is hardly any difference in F or Y+ domestically. Personally I don't care, would prefer an empty beside me in Y+ than a F seat. However, this contract piece has been at UA since the 70's. It is new to the CO pilots as part of our new joint contract.
 
seven3seven
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:05 pm

There were no seats available in first class. None. The pilots didn't take a seat that you deserved. Those seats were already taken as required by the employer.

Get over yourself. You are not the most important person in the universe-just in yours.
My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
 
SPREE34
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:16 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
I'm wondering if this is a contractual issue with their pilots

It is.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 2):

Hahahahahahaha

Oh dear!!!

Mate, it's in their agreements and it happens at almost every airline!!!!!!!
Just like businesses pay for their personnel to travel first for business travel likewise airlines do the same with their "management"!

I suggest you get over it and realize that this is standard policy industry wide and likewise PAY for your own First seat next time so as to save you any embarrassment! You are not above others.

The American Consumer pay? Full Fare? (tongue firmly in cheek)

Quoting mcdu (Reply 3):
f you would like a first class seat you can purchase those with no restrictions.

I don't know why that is such a hard concept to accept. On the flip side, the carriers have marketed their product at such reduced values, they have some culpability for what we are seeing here.

Quoting QANTASvJet (Reply 6):
and if you wanted evidence of just how much airline employees and airline junkies disrespect the people who pay the wages,

I don't see this as evidence of that at all. United has a contractual obligation to certain crew on certain travel status. I do understand a customer being disappointed if they are bumped back to their original class of travel, and would agree the company blew it by not being aware of what the load count and status was. That being said, to get upset at not getting a seat in a class you HAVE NOT paid money for is ridiculous.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
ykaops
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:19 pm

Most airlines ( legacies inparticular) these days have agreed to contractual benefits to deadheading crew members, particularly front end crews. These agreements basically state that any deadheading captain is entitled to a seat in the premium cabin of the aircraft ( first, business or premium economy depending on the aircraft type) and generally these agreements will include the first officer providing a seat is available. Some have it written that both flight crew are guaranteed such benefits. The one thing they (the airline brass) neglected to include was a rider stating that if the cabin is booked full when crew sked goes to book these seats, they will b accomodated elsewhere in the business or economy cabin.
It is somewhat of a slap in the face to the paying consumer holding a confrmed upgrade and then being downgraded and watching a uniformed deadhead pilot take his seat. Afterall, its the customer who pays the pilots salary, and the flight crew should recognize this and respect the customer for flying with them and take his middle seat in the last row beside a screaming baby for the 2 hr flight.
Granted.. certain conditions do warrant such actions to take place, i..e. deadheading transcon to pick up a flight on arrival an operate its transcon sector back .. we want the crew well rested and they dont go beyond their duty day.
 
jayunited
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:20 pm

And you saw fit to post your letter on this website why? I highly doubt you will find a satisfactory answer here but you will find a lot of people who will agree with you in bashing United which is all that you want to accomplish anyway. However, I will engage you and I am sure a lot of people on A.netters will bash me for my response.

Question: Would you be this mad if the pilots were not in uniform? And if they would not have been in their uniform would you have even known that United pilots were even seated in first class? The answer is to both questions is no.

Thousands of people walk past first and business class cabins every day and have no clue who is occupying those seats all you know is that is it is not you. So just because you saw 2 pilots who are traveling in full uniform on company business to their recurrent training class in IAH you are now mad at United. I'm sorry but I just don't understand the source of your frustration your letter didn't mention anything about how customer service treated you or how the flight attendants were if the flight was delayed it just seems like all you are mad over is a seat even though you occupied the seat you purchased and the price you paid is irrelevant to the issue. And although your letter mentioned that you did not know wether or not you would be getting an upgrade the tone of your letter and the fact that you felt it necessary to post it on this A.netters seems to suggest that you probably were going to get the upgrade if those pilots (in uniform) had not been seated there. Because if those pilots were not seated there but other paying customers or if those pilots had not been in uniform this letter and the source of your frustration would not exist because you would have never known who was occupying those seat despite that fact that you probably was the next person on the upgrade list. I am always amazed by how many people get upset because they don't get an upgrade and most time it is the person who is next is line on the list but unfortunately there are no more seats available. Upgrades are not guaranteed they are based upon seat availability and employees traveling standby are last to on the upgrade list. However these pilots were not standby's they are on company business. And to answer the next logical question: Do all employees traveling on company business get seats in first or business class? The answer to that question is no in fact most employees traveling on company business are seated in coach not even economy plus coach.

I really do hope that you get a response from United but I highly doubt it will be to your satisfaction because deadheading pilots are allowed to fly positive space in first or business class.
 
VC10er
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:25 pm

All I wish to add is EVERYTIME I have sent a letter to United it eventually gets an answer. The times when I had a real beef with United...like paying $7k for an international business class trip and my seat was broken, there was no place else to seat me, I found United EXTREMELY gracious. I got one Systemwide upgrade and a fruit and nut tower from Harry and David sent to my office with United ribbon, along with a well written personal apology. Once I was in F internationally and my flight was 4 hours late on arrival due to mech issues. Upon my landing in HK I had an email waiting for me with apology from UA and anther systemwide - before I got a chance to complain that I missed my connection.

Now this was Pre merger and I have high status. But UA does fess up when they screw up. Please post their reply!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
jlbmedia
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:29 pm

Please let us know if United responds.

[Edited 2013-05-20 17:13:34]
JLB54061
 
koruman
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:33 pm

In the rest of the world, elite status simply buys you the right to burn a lot of miles to upgrade into an unsold seat.

I don't think domestic First Class in the USA will ever match internationally-accepted Premium Economy levels - let Business or First Class - until the airlines derive proper remuneration.

But the US culture of entitlement to freeload may well prevent that.
 
cmf
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:34 pm

This is a perfect example of why upgrading passengers is a poor business model. Airlines should understand to protect their product instead of giving it away. Essentially upgrades should only be done when economy is oversold, to bring passengers to their destinations after disruptions, and as an occasional marketing tool to tempt up-sell to frequent economy passengers.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
flyfree727
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:37 pm

1. Many airline pilot uniforms look alike.

2. many international AND domestic airlines PAY f/c to have their pilots positioned to meet up with the aircraft. At AA, many, many times I have pilots for international (non-us carriers) on full FC tickets. As mentioned, it is contractual, and the other airlines DO pay the fc fare.

3. I have know flight attendants with charter airlines that have had f/c tickets PURCHASED for them as well. When the travel department needs to position crew, they can't wait till day-of travel for low-tier upgrades to be processed in hopes a coach seat will become available. They will instead book/confirm the J or F seat as to CONFIRM the crew member if all coach seats are sold.

4.

Quoting slimshady (Thread starter):
I have never written a letter of complaint to an airline before, but I feel this is warranted because this stoops way below the already low standards I have for US based airlines.

you have "low" standards for US based airlines, yet this:

Quoting slimshady (Thread starter):
What especially stings is that I paid just as much money for this trip (record locator XXXXXX) from ONT to TUL as I did for my trip (record locator XXXXXX) from LAX to PVG.


So, you had choices for International carrier service from LAX to PVG but you still chose a US based carrier?  

AA ORD
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:38 pm

One other thing to mention is that UA will eventually take another look at how they do "upgrades" for "elites, plats, golds, 1k" etc. Expect to see the legacies open up the C and F cabins to reduced rate paid upgrades for everyone at the 24h mark at check-in (such as what you see on VX). To further that example, the upgrade window would be up to about 2h before the flight. Only at that point would the frequent fliers then be confirmed to move up. Its another revenue opportunity.

I personally think what DL will be doing by matching status to how much cash you actually pay them for travel during a given year is a better metric than racking up segments or non full fare tickets.
 
shufflemoomin
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:40 pm

I'm confused. You say people with Gold Status were "bumped to economy". Had you paid for business or first and were downgraded to make room for these pilots? If that's the case, I'd agree that you have a valid complaint. However, if we're talking about the self-entitlement of someone who's only paid for economy who's complaining about the pilots getting an upgrade ahead of them, well...
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: My Letter To United

Mon May 20, 2013 11:58 pm

Kinda agree with others here... I can see you writing United if you disagree and want them to consider this change (even if it is a stereotypical first world problem) but sharing it here? IDK, it just seems like it is bash UA time.

Plus, do you know for a fact paid customers were bumped or were they just upgrades? Or were they people that were gonna get upgraded but didn't? Are you 100% sure?
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 12:10 am

As a side note, I know this goes back to ancient history in the airline business. When Donald Nyrop was president and CEO of Northwest Airlines, he wold never bump any fare paying passenger from any seat on the aircraft even when he was on a must ride company business trip, or flying for personal reasons. He would occupy a jump seat in the cockpit or a flight attendant jump seat as long as it did not prevent a flight attendant that was required on the aircraft from having a seat. He realized that all passengers were paying the salaries of the airline employees.
The airlines have agreed to this with the pilots. They do need to be provided a seat. However, a pilot that is commuting from home should not really be occupying a first class seat unless there are empty first class seats for paying passengers. A pilot that the airline needs to transport to a destination to fly an aircraft that would be short of pilots should be allowed to occupy a first class seat as long as that pilot is in uniform.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
lindberghflyer
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 12:26 am

I have never had AA take back my upgrade, and I have flown hundreds of upgraded segments. I have heard of it happening, but its rare. Part of the reason for this is that AA revenue management does not release the last few f seats until boarding. They hold these seats for all sorts of contingencies. To put it in some perspective, all 37 Econ segments I have purchased this year have upgraded except one (redeye dfw-lax) but several came down to the wire and in two cases I was yanked from my y seat after already boarded. I believe AA tries to avoid the kind of "take away" scenario that you experienced, although their deadheading rules are almost identical to UAs....
 
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chepos
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 12:36 am

If you feel entitled to a first class seat I advise you to purchase a first class ticket.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
sulley
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 12:42 am

Since when did this place become FlyerTalk? *groan*

[Edited 2013-05-20 17:43:46]
In thrust we trust!
 
xjet
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 12:51 am

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 18):
3. I have know flight attendants with charter airlines that have had f/c tickets PURCHASED for them as well. When the travel department needs to position crew, they can't wait till day-of travel for low-tier upgrades to be processed in hopes a coach seat will become available. They will instead book/confirm the J or F seat as to CONFIRM the crew member if all coach seats are sold.

This is what I would add. I'm not saying they weren't United pilots, but they could have very well worked for another company. At my airline, we fly on booked tickets paid by the company and retain the mileage. We are just like any other customer. We have many many crew members with very high status due to the large amount of international first class tickets that are purchased for us. In the ideal situation we always change out of uniform. However, if a flight is delayed and we are running to catch our commercial flight, we may wear the monkey suit (very rare).

Incidentally we have been doing a good bit of flying to ONT lately. So it could have been some of my cohorts.

At any rate, I'm not defending UA since I don't have a dog in this fight. just wanted to add that perspective. I certainly understand the frustration though.
 
26point2
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 12:54 am

Once again I am glad I didn't end up with a crappy career as a UAL pilot.

In the 1980s when I started my career United was the "Holy Grail " of airline jobs. They said "Set for Life".

Now, from the outside, it seems to be just about the worst airline pilot job with all its union bickering v. upper manageent nastiness.

Any UAL pilots on this forum? Do you like your job? Do you think there is a future in UAL?
 
max550
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 1:13 am

Quoting slimshady (Thread starter):
I few on flight number UA1237 from ONT to IAH on May 19, 2013, and I am writing to you today to express my disappointment and frustration of seeing two fully uniformed pilots sitting in First Class while qualified people with Gold Status were bumped to economy class.

Were you bumped to Y or Y+? Gold status shouldn't really expect anything better than that.

Quoting slimshady (Thread starter):
What especially stings is that I paid just as much money for this trip (record locator XXXXXX) from ONT to TUL as I did for my trip (record locator XXXXXX) from LAX to PVG.

How much competition is there on ONT-TUL? I'm sure UA (and everyone else) would love to charge you more on the LAX-PVG route but then you probably wouldn't be flying on UA anyway.

Quoting Sulley (Reply 25):
Since when did this place become FlyerTalk? *groan*

  
 
catiii
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 1:19 am

Bet you all the money in my wallet they were NetJets pilots going to the Hawker 800 sim at FlightSafety in Houston. I see them all the time in unifom in F coming out of PBI going to ATL. Anyway, as previously stated "two fully uniformed pilots" doesn't mean they were UA or CO pilots.

OP, you really must like taking the beating to post this post on this thread on these boards with such little information...

[Edited 2013-05-20 18:55:33]
 
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Vio
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 1:27 am

Your letter, without actual proof of who those pilots were and what their "fare type" was is nothing but ridiculous nonsense. I hope they ignore your letter, and therefore frustrate you even more than you are now. I fly all the time in uniform and 95% of the time, I'm a "paying passenger" even if my company pays for my ticket.

Don't assume. Like others said here, if you want to be sitting in business or first class, purchase a fare. You're not entitled to it just because you're some sort of "elite" status.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
aviateur
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 1:37 am

Quoting tonystan (Reply 2):
Mate, it's in their agreements and it happens at almost every airline!!!!!!!



This is FALSE.

I don't know what was happening on the UAL flight the thread-starter is referring to, but as a rule, in the U.S., deadheading crew members are NEVER given positive space travel in first or business class seats on ANY domestic segment.

Long-haul is another story -- though again, the employee must be on official company business -- but on domestic segments this doesn't happen.


-- Patrick Smith

[Edited 2013-05-20 18:43:18]
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
catiii
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 1:54 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 31):

Pretty sure FedEx deadheads their crews in F on OAL. In any event, it's unclear exactly whose pilots these were.
 
SPREE34
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 2:05 am

Quoting chepos (Reply 24):
If you feel entitled to a first class seat I advise you to purchase a first class ticket.

  

Quoting vio (Reply 30):
Like others said here, if you want to be sitting in business or first class, purchase a fare. You're not entitled to it just because you're some sort of "elite" status.

   Out ever elitist society that demands more and more for less and nothing paid.

Quoting aviateur (Reply 31):
This is FALSE.

I don't know what was happening on the UAL flight the thread-starter is referring to, but as a rule, in the U.S., deadheading crew members are NEVER given positive space travel in first or business class seats on ANY domestic segment.

Pretty assertive there with the caps in FALSE. You might want to read the contract between UAL and ALPA, then revisit the thread.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
baw716
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 2:08 am

Here's a question:

What happens when pilots get "bumped" off a flight after the airline has paid full fare for their ticket? One of the single most frustrations we have in the operation is when one of our pilots who is deadheading to a trip is bumped off a flight with a revenue ticket in favor of an elite passenger. There is no consideration for the passengers on the flight that is delayed or cancelled because the pilot can't get to his assignment because the gate agent can't figure out he/she has a full fare ticket.

While I certainly appreciate the frustration of the elite passenger; I don't feel sorry for him. He was expecting an upgrade and some company (can't say about UA since I'm not there) put their pilots in First Class. We do pay for our tickets where necessary and in those cases, our pilots deserve and expect the same treatment as any other full fare paying passenger...especially in F class.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
gizmonc
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 2:15 am

If you flew from IAH PEK via LAX you had a thru fare and it would not be broken. I have been in the business for 22 years and deading pilots are entitled to premium class if seats are available. But then we dont know the exact details on the AKA PILOTS you mentioned. As many posters has noted they could have been from any airline and on a PAID ticket. Get over yourself buy the seat next time. When I was working for US AIRWAYS.. my supervisor asked me what was worse than a SILVER CARD HOLDER...A silver card holders wife. They would call in all the time and demand upgrade. Silver was the entry level for
Dividend miles at the time. GOLD at UA/CO is just second level so probably not much better.
 
N353SK
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 2:22 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 31):
I don't know what was happening on the UAL flight the thread-starter is referring to, but as a rule, in the U.S., deadheading crew members are NEVER given positive space travel in first or business class seats on ANY domestic segment.

As far as I can decipher the new United TA states that on a "basic flight" (basically North America) deadhead over three hours in length the pilot will be booked in first on a two class aircraft and business on a three class aircraft, but may not bump revenue passengers. It also specifically says that a pilot will not be downgraded to accommodate an upgraded passenger.
 
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vanguard737
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RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 2:28 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 4):

Even if we ignore your "ignorance" of how things work in the industry, the way your letter is structured just makes it ripe for the trash can anyways.

  

My eyes began to roll as soon as the OP flashed his Gold Status as if he were the second coming of Christ.

Quoting aviateur (Reply 31):
I don't know what was happening on the UAL flight the thread-starter is referring to, but as a rule, in the U.S., deadheading crew members are NEVER given positive space travel in first or business class seats on ANY domestic segment.

I am not sure what you are basing this off of. But I remember only a few years ago going to recurrent training as a CUSTOMER SERVICE AGENT in positive-space First Class on a 777 from ORD to DEN.

This is pretty standard practice at most airlines, as far as I know.

If you expect a First Class ticket...pay for one. Otherwise, accept the free upgrade when it is offered or accept your reserved C or Y seat when that is all that is available to you.
319 320 321 359 717 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 744 748 752 753 763 764 772 773 788 DC9 DC10 MD80 B1900 S340 E120 E145 E170 E175 CRJ CR7
 
dumbell2424
Posts: 925
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:45 pm

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 2:47 am

WFBF (pronounced wiff-biff)

Want First, Buy First.
 
citation501sp
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:19 pm

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 2:55 am

Pay full fare for first class its plain and simple, It makes a hell of a difference. I've sat in First on my dime and on Upgrades, I'll tell you, paying for First Class... Totally different experience! The FA's know exactly who paid what. Here is a little tip for the "Entitled Elites" if you get an upgrade; note "if", shut your mouth and enjoy the experience.

Nice letter though, I had a good chuckle.

501sp
Smoke and Thunder! Stage 2 FOREVER!!!
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 3:14 am

Quoting slimshady (Thread starter):

Let's be clear: you are pissed because you did not get something that you did not pay for.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 14):
The times when I had a real beef with United...like paying $7k for an international business class trip and my seat was broken, there was no place else to seat me, I found United EXTREMELY gracious.

That is a legit problem, since buying a ticket implies a functional seat. If I were in charge, whiny crap like the OP sent would be headed for the bin.

Quoting chepos (Reply 24):
If you feel entitled to a first class seat I advise you to purchase a first class ticket.

  
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
AirCalSNA
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:35 pm

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 3:35 am

 
jayunited
Posts: 2450
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 3:59 am

Quoting slimshady (Thread starter):
I am writing to you today to express my disappointment and frustration of seeing two fully uniformed pilots sitting in First Class while qualified people with Gold Status were bumped to economy class. It is irrelevant whether I was going to be upgraded or not, in my judgment it is extremely tacky and goes against every statement United Airlines has made in the name of customer service.

I just reread your letter and I'm sorry but first you said people with gold status which is what you have were bumped to coach then you in very next sentence you say you didn't know wether you would have gotten the upgrade to first. So where you BUMPED or as you just pissed off that you didn't get the upgrade? After rereading your letter I now highly doubt that United will respond because your letter is filled with inconsistency and it displays a passenger who is nothing more than a spoiled child who hoped to get something for nothing. United did not bump you out of first class because you never had the upgrade to begin with.
 
slimshady
Topic Author
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:33 pm

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 3:44 pm

Wow, the number people who are obviously pilots responding to this thread is overwhelming.. Apparrantly as a customer, I am certianly the minority here on this board...

Just proves the typical airline flight crew mentality... Priority is: "us" first, then the customer.. and screw management at the same time.
 
DualQual
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:10 pm

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 4:19 pm

Would you have sent this exact letter in if it was Jeff Smisek you saw sitting in first? Or would you feel differently? And just because most everybody else on this thread seems to vehemently disagree with you does not make them aircrew.

[Edited 2013-05-21 09:20:28]
There's no known cure for stupid
 
slimshady
Topic Author
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:33 pm

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 5:01 pm

I HAVE been on a flight where Larry Kellner was sitting in first. Duh, he is the CEO. But deadheading pilots are an apples and oranges. My IQ is dropping reading the responses of this thread...

Tacky and unprofessional. Just like your post.
 
b2319
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:41 am

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 5:31 pm

For what my opinion is worth:

First, I am not aircrew.
Second, in the days of electronic media, I find an 'important letter' that is riddled with grammar and spelling errors to be somewhat 'missing the point'.
Third, I do not believe, having paid for an economy ticket, you are entitled to anything other than this; with the caveat of having no access to the 'small print' in your FF programme.
Fourth, I find your last post a little insulting; however, you are free to criticise me. This is an international forum on the internet in 2013, after all..... 
Fifth, "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?' were the last words uttered on stage by Johnny Rotten before the Sex Pistols' original split up, in San Francisco, 1978. You clearly do, though neither are you right. Just in my opinion.   

My response, in my dialect would be: 'Away you go and play tig with the trains.....'   

Forgive my last post of the night, as it is 0130 local time.....

Cheers

B-2319  
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3538
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting slimshady (Reply 45):

Not air crew and I disagree.

You obviously need some cheese with your whine. Too bad they don't have that in coach...
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
flyingthe757
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:44 pm

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting slimshady (Reply 45):
Tacky and unprofessional

Thank you, I was trying to think of an adequate way to describe your letter. You made it very to personal, it is a little childish, and you just insulted them which took away from the whole message. I had to re-read it to understand what message you were trying to put over as I only got the hate part


With regards to the issue at hand, as has been mentioned, most airlines around the world have set procedures when it comes to deadheading staff.

Quoting slimshady (Thread starter):
xpress my disappointment and frustration of seeing two fully uniformed pilots sitting in First Class while qualified people with Gold Status were bumped to economy class.

Where is you disappointment and frustration coming from? If you can point out in the frequent flyer rules where it states your always entitled to the seat then I might understand, but you seem to be frustrated because you did not get something (or others id not get something) you/they might not have received had the flight been full for example.

If I were you, I would sit back, take a breath and if you really want to, re write the message but take out the personal "anger" you seem to have put in the original letter and write one that is easier to read and understand to the reader.
 
N353SK
Posts: 1018
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 am

RE: My Letter To United

Tue May 21, 2013 9:42 pm

Quoting slimshady (Reply 43):
Just proves the typical airline flight crew mentality... Priority is: "us" first, then the customer.. and screw management at the same time.

You are flying on a red eye from LAX to IAH. The captain has fallen in ill, and a reserve was just deadheaded in from Houston and will now be flying you all night. Would you prefer he arrives having just taken a nap in a first class seat, or would you rather he arrives after sitting in a middle seat in coach, unable to sleep? While at face value putting this pilot in first class may be "screwing the customer" I would argue that it is in the best interest of the 150 passengers on the red eye.

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