buck3y3nut
Topic Author
Posts: 824
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One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog...

Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:20 pm

Don't know if any of you have read this, but it's worth a read...

Thoughts / Comments???

To,
Mr ALEXANDRE DE JUNIAC
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer,
Air France-KLM

Dear Alexandre,

Can I call you Alexandre? I hope you don’t mind if I call you by your first name, I understand only your close friends and family members would lovingly call you Alexandre. I’m sure by the time we’re through this entire incident; you’d feel like we’ve known each other for years. As was the flight delay time, on one of your aircrafts I had the misfortune of flying.

You know Alexandre, I seldom read and the only thing I've ever lamented online is the proliferation of religious ideologies. I don't believe in throwing brickbats on any passing subject but I do believe in the fact that writing needs a sense of purpose, which I've rarely come across until now. So you should feel special Alexandre, very special.

The thing is I’ve started dreaming about Air France, Alexandre. I can’t seem to get over. It’s like we’ve been flirting for so long, I can’t take it anymore. Everyday I wake up and I check my inbox to see if I’ve received an e-mail from one of your Customer Relations Executive, I frantically search my mailbox to see if there’s any post from Air France regarding the incident that’s probably going to have lifelong implications on the goodwill of your Company. I can’t take it anymore Alexandre, I can’t.

Please allow me to provide specific details in a timeline format, so that you can either pursue your professional dispensation and seek to resolve these difficulties — or more likely (I suspect) you’ll probably bury yourself in the buckskin leather chair you have and pass this nonchalant piece of information to your interns.

9th October 2013

5.45 pm (New York): I message my older sister good-bye and board Air France flight AF 17 from JFK Airport, New York. More often than not, my trips abroad are marred with unforeseen events so I was pleasantly surprised when I left New York to go back home, and that nothing untoward occurred over the course of 4 weeks. But then again, "impossible" isn't a French word Alexandre and I didn't realize I was still far from home, which means, I had spoken too soon.

See, you’re getting to know so much about me already. Although, a lot of this might come as a surprise to you, but life is full of surprises, no? Okay never mind.

8.15 am (Paris): Everything seemed normal and I tried to sleep my way to Paris with little luck. We landed in Paris around 7.00 am and proceeded to Terminal K Gate 51 to board my connecting Air France Flight AF 218 to Bombay, which was to depart at 10.50 am. I've had an eventful experience while passing through Paris the last time and I wasn't feeling any better this time around either.

10.15 am: The information screen finally comes to life and announces that Flight AF 218 scheduled to depart at 10.50 am for Bombay has been delayed and rescheduled for 12.20 pm. You know the funny part Alexandre? I don’t see any of your ground staff who should’ve shared this information with us. You guys have taken digitalization to a whole new level.

12.00 pm: It’s been 5 hours now since we’ve been at the Airport. Once again Alexandre, there is no word from Air France, it’s way past our Boarding time but I don’t see any of those walking abortions, asking us to Board the Aircraft. I’m worried Alexandre, will I ever get home? I couldn’t tell.

12.45 pm: As more and more passengers panic, voices grow louder; finally two of your immaculately dressed French men come to the floor. The words they utter, go through my chest like a glass splinter, only you could’ve helped stop the pain. They say that the flight to Bombay has been cancelled indefinitely. No clear reasons are given, just a plain, meaningless statement “the aircraft has technical issues!’’ Do you feel the coldness Alexandre? It’s like your wife, sending you an SMS saying your marriage can’t work. She doesn’t say why, she doesn’t even tell you if there’s any possibility of it working out. She just bails out on you Alexandre, harsh, isn’t it? I know, I can feel you.

I’ve been away from my family for a month; do you know how eager I am to get home? You can’t! But as you will realize later in this letter, my eagerness to get back home is nothing compared to, with good reason, the emergencies faced by some of the other passengers.

1.30 pm: The French men have now completely lost it! They forget your beautifully worded guide to solving customer issues and are completely clueless about what’s going on. They stick their ears to their talking devices and arrogantly refuse divulging any information to the stranded passengers. The only thing they promise us is that we won’t be flying out of Paris until next day. How comforting, feels just like your Buckskin leather chair, NOT!

Kindly note, we’re in Paris! It’s the hub of Air France. An alternate flight could’ve been arranged?!

1.45 pm: After some verbal altercations with the passengers, your staff finally decided it’s time for us to have lunch. They handed out meal vouchers which could be redeemed at one of the two restaurants in the Terminal but directed us towards Exki in particular since it was closer to the Gate and we had to assemble at the Air France Office at the lower terminal for further “instructions”.

2.15 pm: Passengers assemble at the office. After waiting for 45 minutes, we’re told that we’ll be given accommodation and Meal Vouchers for the stay. Passengers already holding a Schengen Visa are directed towards the Hotel whereas the rest of us are asked to submit our passports to apply for a Transit Visa. As of now about 5-6 people have a Schengen Visa out of nearly 40 passengers in total.

Are you with me so far Alexandre? Don’t lose me now.

This is where things turn for the worse. This is where it get’s really serious! Godforsaken company.

3.30 pm: Passengers with emergencies try to get themselves placed on an alternate flight to India. Some are senior citizens, some are patients and some have personal issues to tend to.

27-year-old Mr S. Mishra, who is consumed with emotions, tries to negotiate a seat on any other flight to India but is flatly refused. I later realize that his father passed away in a car accident two days ago and his family was waiting for him to perform the last rites for his father in Bhubaneshwar. If that wasn’t enough, Bhubaneshwar was bracing itself for the worst Cyclone to ever hit the country, Phailin, two days later. I can’t imagine what’s going on in his mind. It’s just really sad!

Suddenly none of my problems hold any value compared to him, I’m taken aback with his helplessness and we try to persuade the Air France Officials to give him a seat on an alternate flight or airline. At this point, I realize the lack of courtesy, even on humanitarian grounds extended to him by the officials as they arrogantly refuse him a seat, saying many people have emergencies and they cannot afford to accommodate all of them. They immediately deny and say there are no flights going to India without making any calls or checking any monitors for alternate flights to India. Seems like this is the only information they’re sure of even though they have no clue when our flight would be departing the next day.

We are later told by one of the informed passengers that a woman flying Business Class on our flight was accommodated on an Air India flight to India.

6.00 pm: The Staff finally arrives with our Passports after 3 hours. To my utter disbelief, only 6-7 people are given the Transit Visa whereas the rest of us are denied. There is no proof of rejection on the passport, nor does it carry any form, that holds any evidence of rejection too. Most of us have traveled to Europe before and considering we were flying originally from New York, we also had US Visas apart from a number of other visas from countries world over. On what grounds were our Visas rejected? We’d never know.

Ironically the 6-7 passengers who received the Visa are only Senior Citizens as well as women with children. No one else and I mean NO ONE ELSE got the visa.

We’ve now been at the airport for nearly 12 hours and have just been informed that we can’t even travel outside the airport to rest at one of the Hotels. Everyone is furious and we try to reason the refusal of our Transit Visa. It made no sense logically or practically for a stranded passenger to have been refused a Transit Visa. Although, it made a lot of logical sense for the airline to have not applied for our visa at all considering it would help save Visa Fees and money spent for our Accommodation. How can you refuse a Transit Visa to a stranded Passenger? On what ground? This question is directed both, towards the French Embassy as well as Air France, whoever finally decided to refuse the Visa.

By now you’d feel that this is the worst your airline could’ve done in terms of Customer Care but did I say I’m in Bombay yet, No! It get’s even worse Alexandre. I’d be very worried if I were in your place, you see it’s not that complicated, it’s rather quite simple. These things happen world over and I’m sure you’ve faced them too someday. But think about it Alexandre, what would you do if you were Subhransu, can’t imagine, can you? He’s a 27 year old boy who hasn’t seen his father in months, the only reason he’s going to India is because his father suddenly passed away and all he wants, rather all he can do, is see his father, one last time! But by the grace of your ground staff and officials, he probably won’t even get to do that! Do you feel his pain, Alexandre? I don’t think so! I cannot curse your airline enough or the imbeciles running it. What’s your raison d’être? Please tell us, so we can all hear it.

Anyway, I digress.

We ask them for directions to their lounge. At first, they seem perplexed and then comes another one of those cold, illogical and insensitive replies, we’re told the Air France Lounge is only for Business Class passengers and they can’t allow us to stay there. We are asked to take an airport shuttle to the other terminal and fend for ourselves at the upper deck resting area.

Out of the 35 odd passengers, most of them are senior citizens and a lot of them can barely speak English. They are scared and eager to get back home. They cannot speak out for themselves. At 6.30pm we call for four wheel chairs for senior citizens who can hardly walk let alone go to the other terminal, which needs a train to reach. After waiting for over an hour and half, the ground staff arrives with one wheel chair saying they couldn’t find more wheel chairs, so we point out the 20 odd wheel chairs lying right across the hall in a section which was closed and we hear something that baffles all of us, “those wheel chairs are from another company and we cannot use them!” I recorded this on my Camera.

The thing that lingers at the back of my mind more than anything else right now is the gut wrenching fact that everyone you know who had traveled to France earlier warned you about this, you knew you were being targeted because of your race but you’re in denial thinking you’re being irrational. You wonder at this point how could it all go, so wrong, but you’re left with insidious and plausible deniability’s of the fact that you’re attacked for being from a particular ethnicity. You’ve traveled across the world, it’s never happened to you before, but you were warned and, it did.

A French gentleman probably my father’s age, flying Business Class apologetically said, “I’ve been flying since the past 35 years and I’m sorry but I’ve only seen this happen to certain people, I’m really sorry.” I made a few friends there since we all were stranded together, one of my friend Jo who is a Dutch National just e-mailed me saying she was offered a compensation package from KLM. Meanwhile, we are yet to hear from either KLM or Air France. Surprising, don’t you think? Considering we were the ones who were left to fend for ourselves at the airport without an iota of assistance from Air France?

It’s an incoherent mess. There was absolutely no assistance, ever. Every time we needed something, we would have to travel across Terminals, meet new Air France Officials each time and have to request them for all of our basic needs. There were really old, senior citizens, an old patient suffering from Asthma and perhaps, just out of customer care, couldn’t there have been an Official assigned to tend to our grievances personally?

7.45 pm: We get a Sandwich and a Soft drink from the Air France Office, thank god! The first proper morsel of food in over 12 hours. Although we could probably have been sharing an Indian feast with our families back home, by now. Something is better than nothing.

10.00 pm: Mr S. Mishra, Ms Shruti Kore and I proceed towards the resting area on the upper deck of the Terminal where we are asked to retire for the night. We head to the Air France counter there and request for a Blanket and a Bed Sheet, once again we’re asked to wait incessantly as they've run out of bed sheets and blankets. After 45 minutes we get our “resting kit”. They also issue us a new Boarding Pass for the Flight tomorrow and inform us that they've arranged a completely new flight for us, which would be flying out at 10.50 am just like our original departure time. We complete the formalities and go back to the floor. We reunite with the rest of the Passengers. A few passengers manage to occupy the sleeping chairs whereas everyone else has to sleep on the floor. It is not surprising to notice that out of all the passengers in the entire upper deck resting area, we barely spot anyone from a nationality other than India.

12.00 am: Mr Mishra picks a corner to charge his laptop so that he could write to his family and is still overwhelmed with emotions because he isn't sure if he’ll get to see his father one last time. By now, we’re all tired and exhausted but still in shock about the treatment meted out to all of us. By 1.30 am, I call it a night and put on my headphones to try and catch some sleep in bits and pieces.

10th October 2013

7.00 am: We head to Terminal K Gate 49 once again and go to Exki to redeem our Breakfast Vouchers.

We’re allowed 1 Danish pastry and 1 hot/soft drink. I grab a bowl of soup only, which is half the price of the voucher, since the pastry has eggs and I don’t drink tea/coffee or aerated drinks. I head to the Cashier, explaining and requesting her to let me take the bowl of soup instead of the two. She calls the Chef who is a young man not older than 30-34 years and perhaps, with a missing cerebrum. He is infuriated and with an overcompensating display of anger points out the only two things I am supposed to have as per the voucher. He doesn't ask me to buy the soup, he doesn't refuse politely but he raises his voice and tries to insult me in front of every one else. I raise my voice louder than his and tell him why I got the soup in the first place. The pastry has eggs, which I don’t eat, and they've run out of vegetarian food. I also point out lividly that anyone who has this voucher is someone who is stranded at the airport without a choice and showing some courtesy to anyone holding the voucher wouldn't harm him in any way. I push aside the tray and move on. He’s completely startled; everyone around is also surprised with his behavior and they put in a word.

8.30 am: We meet the rest of the passengers who had gone to the hotels for the stay and wait for our flight.

That’s where I meet one elderly gentleman who is going to Baroda. I’m amazed at what he has to say. His flight from Newark to Paris on the 7th was delayed and therefore he missed his connecting flight to Bombay from Paris, so they put him on our flight only for that flight to have been cancelled too. I can’t believe it! He looks like he’s preparing himself for the role of Mr Viktor Navrovski from the movie Terminal. Imagine spending two whole nights at an airport you didn't prepare yourself for!

9.45 am: Once again, as if this is an endless joke, our flight is delayed. We've lost all hope and I feel like I’m part of a stupid prank let alone a very expensive one. They say the flight will leave at 1.50 pm. Sick of their nonsensical replies and unrealistic reasons, I just want to get home but I’m having trust issues with this company on monolithic proportions.

1.30 pm: We realize we’re being accommodated in an existing, scheduled flight as against what was told to us, that a special flight was arranged only for us.

All the pieces of the ever so confusing puzzle finally fell into place. Air France never organized a special aircraft for us, why would they when they cancelled our flight due to under utilized capacity anyway? We were just being accommodated on a scheduled flight. Two flights in one? You do the math!

2.25 pm: We’re finally heading to Bombay.

Now let me throw some facts and figures.

Air France Flight AF 218 is an Airbus A330-200 Aircraft. The average seating capacity of this Aircraft is 209 passengers. The number of stranded passengers in all was not more than 45. The final aircraft we boarded on the 10th of October was on full capacity. Perhaps our original flight was cancelled due to the high number of empty seats? Was it easier to cancel an empty aircraft rather than fly one, resulting in huge savings? Also, it makes even more sense to accommodate two flights in one. Maximum returns? We were not even given accommodation or proper food. Could this be the reason?

My guess is as good as yours!

Getting back to you, Alexandre, I don’t think there’s much left to say.

I’m over and done with this debacle but not without spreading the word about your service amongst my friends and family. There’s no doubt that your company is not competent or professional enough to take passengers world over. You may get defensive and say that this is a one-off incident but unfortunately, it isn’t. Number of people have voiced a similar opinion about the treatment meted out to them by your company. It is rather unsettling. Don’t know the effect this letter might have on your customer service but rest assured, you can thoroughly deduct an average of 5000$ from your annual profits if not more. Although that might be just a whisker in your overall mess, it’ll be one which was done with due diligence. We’ve had enough of your staff’s condescending bullshit. We have encountered inadequacy of service, which I never knew was possible for such a big company along with ignorance and stupidity of humungous proportions.

Let me make it very clear, we don’t fly your airlines for free and more often than not are the only people flying on this particular sector. You might try and make some damage control but be completely sure, that we will never forget the way we've been treated at the hands of your staff. You have failed miserably in meeting the expectations of your customers based on the promises you've made to them.

I will be circulating this letter amongst popular press and media along with a court summons we’re in the process of filing. This is a true account of what happened in Paris, Charles De Gaulle Airport.

Au revoir.

Your new best pal,
Jay Shah

http://europa.eu/legislation_summari...tection_of_consumers/l24173_en.htm
Link to EU Law for flight cancellations.

Name: Shah Jay
Booking Reference Number: 4B7WMU
First Port of Boarding: John F. Kennedy Airport, USA
Connect Flight: AF 218
Flight cancelled at: Charles De Gaulle, Paris
Complaint Reference Number: 6741742001

Here's the direct link if you want to follow the blog closely!!!
 
747megatop
Posts: 1726
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:52 pm

The sentence - "Kindly note, we’re in Paris! It’s the hub of Air France. An alternate flight could’ve been arranged?! " makes me wonder the same thing; couldn't AF find a replacement aircraft? They had another hub (AMS) closeby too for AF-KLM to find a replacement aircraft.
Also, since the CDG-BOM flight was cancelled I wonder what happened to the passengers on the return BOM-CDG leg the were supposed to be carried by this aircraft when it turned around in BOM?

It would be good to know what the technical problem was with the aircraft and why it could not be fixed.
 
lewis
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:00 pm

Before screaming racism, I would like to know what the rules are for the transit visas the passengers were hoping for and whether or not they are harder to get for certain nationalities. Sad situation overall, I would have not been able to keep my calm for as long as he did.
 
rampbro
Posts: 494
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:09 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 1):
They had another hub (AMS) closeby

Closer than that was ORY.

Shocking story and entirely believable.
 
imag
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:46 pm

Totally believable. I've been stranded by AF in 2012 in Paris for 24 hours on a one ticket connecting flight from LHR to JNB. I was lucky in that I got a transit visa, after 2 hours in the transit desk queue.

With my accommodation I got a lunch voucher for one sandwhich and that was it. Throw in having stuff stolen from my luggage and having to pay for my missed flight in JNB, it wasn't a great experience.

Even when we were waiting at LHR, knowing that we'd miss the connection at CDG, the staff wouldn't listen to us and told us we'd have to go to CDG as they couldn't do anything at LHR. And when we get to CDG, it still took 2 hours to queue at the transit desk.

When I complained afterwards and asked for compensation for taking 24 hours off my holiday, I was offered 6000 AF miles, which gives you squat. I get that delays and cancellations happen, but when you don't care about your paying customers, that's when I take my business elsewhere.
 
ozglobal
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:49 pm

Nasty story and I can believe it too. However, visas for Indians are complicated to get in Schengen zone and usually require a letter of invitation for a conference or similar. My trips from France to India were similarly painful in terms of visa due to the tit for tat policies of the Indian government.

Apart from that, I have been abused and virtually accused of lying by US border protection when I have been on around the world tickets returning from Asia to Paris via the US, either in SFO, LAX or JFK. As there is no international transit zone in the US, they always ask me to state the purpose of my visit and I answer, "In transit for my next flight to Europe." To which they are usually completely perplexed, "What do you mean?", "Business or Pleasure". I reply again, "Transit." Then, "You've done this before!" "Yes," I say, "every three months or so." "What's this 'around the world ticket' you're talking about." All of this is AFTER I show the boarding pass for a flight to LHR or CDG in a few hours' time. They just cannot understand that the US is not a destination for me. The best one was when the boarder protection agent eventually became curious and asked, "so how much do you save on an around the world ticked"? When he heard the level of discount on a business class ticket for my itinerary, he let me though.  
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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andrefranca
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:10 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 5):

For me they just asked if I had a return ticket once, But I know brazilian women both in France or the US get harassed by the officers, I wonder why.....LMFAO.
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
frunzaverde
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:18 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 2):
Before screaming racism, I would like to know what the rules are for the transit visas the passengers were hoping for and whether or not they are harder to get for certain nationalities. Sad situation overall, I would have not been able to keep my calm for as long as he did.

France is one of a handful of EU countries that require Indian citizens to be in possession of an ATV (Airside Transit Visa) even for transiting through CDG airside (even if s/he never steps foot in France proper and just stays airside).

An ATV national is usually regarded with utmost concern and given the highest possible level of scrutiny when applying for a change of status, and are considered, by and large, of posing extreme risk to the Schengen country imposing ATV rules. This is mandated by Schengen legislation and is in no way some form of profiling.

Being approved a last-minute short-stay visa for an ATV national is extremely unlikely - the fact that some of the passengers in CDG got a visa most likely involved some wrangling between AF and the authorities. Standard procedure would be immediate denial unless emergency medical needs exist.

Of course, AF should have provided the best possible treatment given the circumstances, and the pax is entitled to compensation per EU law (may have to fight for it in court, it is still ambiguous whether the rules apply for transfer pax on a non-EU to non-EU destination via the EU). But this is AF we're speaking of, in CDG - you expect bad treatment and passive-aggressive attitudes. Especially if you don't speak French.

Quoting rampbro (Reply 3):
Shocking story and entirely believable.

Seems like a typical day at CDG rather than anything else. There's no racism, they treat everybody like scum there, even the locals get the parisian attitude. "J'aime rien, je suis parisien", you'll find that on many stickers in town.

My favorite CDG experience is being kept in a bus on the ramp for 35 minutes (with the A/C shut down) in summer heat (30+ C) because "both the airplane and the gate required cleaning". The bus was packed (as they usually are), and doors were kept tightly shut (while the driver was, of course, having a cigarette outside). This was a CDG-ARN flight, so no racism could be claimed here.

Another favorite was being shouted at for using in the priority lanes for "not looking like business class type and not beloning there", even though I was flying in J (probably they have some sort of dress code I wasn't aware of).
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6088
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:19 pm

Quoting lewis (Reply 2):
Before screaming racism, I would like to know what the rules are for the transit visas the passengers were hoping for and whether or not they are harder to get for certain nationalities.

Even Aeroflot can arrange transit hotel for those stuck at SVO (the other worst airport in Europe after CDG) who require visa without actually issuing them any. And this is an airline in a paranoid, semitotalitarian country with nonexistent customer service.

Anyway, Mr. Shah would have to try harder if he wanted to shock me with Air France and their incompetence. CDG is a giant mess and should be avoided at any cost.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:31 pm

This happens almost once every year to Indian citizens at CDG. Why is it even a surprise/story every time? Neither side seem to have figure out what to do. Some one should write up some SOPs.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 8):
Even Aeroflot can arrange transit hotel for those stuck at SVO (the other worst airport in Europe after CDG)

Are there any capsule hotels in transit area. Mr.Snowden stayed in one of those for a long time at SVO.

[Edited 2013-10-29 15:32:06]
 
Flaps
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:34 pm

Fabulous letter. Not that AF would ever be a voluntary choice for me, this letter would definitely be considered a factor if that time ever came.
 
Viscount724
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:34 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 10):
Fabulous letter. Not that AF would ever be a voluntary choice for me, this letter would definitely be considered a factor if that time ever came.

That type of a sarcastic, impolite letter to an airline CEO isn't the way to get a positive response. He would have been much better advised to write a polite and much shorter letter outlining the issues and advising what type of compensation he would find acceptable, and not publish it on the internet.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1919
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:11 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
That type of a sarcastic, impolite letter to an airline CEO isn't the way to get a positive response. He would have been much better advised to write a polite and much shorter letter outlining the issues and advising what type of compensation he would find acceptable, and not publish it on the internet.

If AF could have improved, they would have done it long time back. This is not the first time AF is behaving this badly with Indian passengers. There were couple of other well publicized incidents, but AF is too stubborn to change for the better.

He was speaking for all the people in who got stuck, not just for himself. The overall boorish behavior of AF and the airport workers at CDG was what made him write the blog.

If AF was so sensitive as to take action on a simple polite complaint, it wouldn't be the airline it is today
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:54 am

Quoting frunzaverde (Reply 7):
An ATV national is usually regarded with utmost concern and given the highest possible level of scrutiny when applying for a change of status, and are considered, by and large, of posing extreme risk to the Schengen country imposing ATV rules

This is absolutely appalling. Even PRC would grant a 48 hour transit visa in such circumstances.

I've definitely learned one thing from reading this: always travel with my British passport when going to EU. I never take it with me, and travel exclusively on my Australian passport everywhere in the world, including the UK. That said, if this is how they treat foreign nationals then I never want to end up in a similar situation. Obviously Australian citizens don't need Schengen visas, but if the s**t ever hits the fan like this then it would be nice to be able to prove that I have a legal right to be there.

Oh yeah, and I learned another: I'm want fly AF. I had zero intention of ever flying them before reading this, so it isn't a snap knee-jerk reaction, but this confirms that the disdain I have for that company is justified.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
buck3y3nut
Topic Author
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:47 pm

I was just appalled at the fact that a woman traveling in J was allowed on a flight whereas a 28 year old begging to be put on the flight to fulfill his duties as a son towards the last rites/rituals was not... I can only imagine the horror, stress, emotions going through that man's mind...
 
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mad99
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:10 pm

So lets see if i understand this..

A flight is cancelled due to technical issues.
Old, special needs and parents are found alternative flight.
The remaining passengers are sent to a hotel and fed.
Indians w/o visas must stay in the airport due to French law.
Following day your fed and sent home (including the 27 yo guy for the bbq and river cruse)

People like to attach the staff, i see it all the time, and vent frustrations on them. The 'i can't believe you missed my connection arsehole' get helped like the rest but if you use a little humour it gets things done.
 
davidho1985
Posts: 373
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:18 pm

Sometimes airlines are difficult to understand.

In Aug, my 12:30pm UA flight from Orlando to NY was forced to return to gate due to technical issues almost 3 hours after the pushback (when we were stucked on the taxiway, the communication between the crew and the enginering department was already a mess ).

Finally they decided to ask everyone to go back to the terminal. As soon as we were heading back to the terminal, the ground agent announced via PA that they have no information on hand and don't have ANY C0ONTINGENCY PLAN!!!
Coming on, I am travelling from a major city on an major alrline in USA and I won't expect such irresponsible CUSTOMER SERVICES.
One hour later, the UA OFFICAL APPS in my iphone showed that OUR FLIGHT WAS FINALLY CANCELLED. As we have some important things to do in NY that night, I immediately went to the counter and asked to be put on another flight.
The ground agent argued with me and insisted that the FLIGHT WAS NOT CANCELLED EVEN AFTER I SHOWED HIM HIS EMPLOYER'S OFFICAL APPS!!! After a ten minutes agruement, he finally agreed to have a call to his COMPANY'S OFFICE and subsequently confirmed me the flight was REALLY cancelled. I can't understand why a normal passanger will have more information on hand then a SO CALL PROFESSIONAL STAFF!!

Originally, I should be able to be placed to another UA flight. However, as he WASTED ME ten valuable minutes, as soon as HE FINALLY AGREED WITH ME that my original flight was REALLY CANCELLED, the flight has closed and no one can board the plane anymore.

Finally as all the remaining flights were completely full, I have no choose but forced to stay in Orlando for one more night.

[Edited 2013-10-30 09:20:36]

[Edited 2013-10-30 09:22:07]

[Edited 2013-10-30 09:23:13]
 
Baexecutive
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:29 pm

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:21 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):

I agree. All the dramatics could be cut for a more concise record of what happened and what needs to be done to satisfy the complaint. It seves nothing more than a self indulgent rant over a poor experience received from AF.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1919
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:41 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 15):
A flight is cancelled due to technical issues.
Old, special needs and parents are found alternative flight.
The remaining passengers are sent to a hotel and fed.
Indians w/o visas must stay in the airport due to French law.
Following day your fed and sent home (including the 27 yo guy for the bbq and river cruse)

Well, they weren't fed properly (one sandwich after 9 hours, and a breakfast which was not more than one pastry and coffee , during the entire 28 hours ordeal), didn't make arrangements to move the old passengers who needed wheelchairs to the rest area, no timely information or enough information, overall a very poor handling of the cancellation by AF.


If an airline is transporting people from India to a third country through a hub in the carrier's country, then they should be responsible for ensuring that the passengers are well taken care of. Offering them one sandwich and a drink coupon , and a breakfast where you cannot take more than one item when you are stuck for 29 hours in the airport is not sufficient compensation.

I feel that MoCA should mandate that for countries which refuse to give transit visas in exceptional situations where there is no connecting flight for more than 8-10 hours, then the carriers should require only those with transit visas to board and/or not allow them to take passengers from India to places beyond their hub. Just as BA today enforces that if you don't have valid US visa or a airside transit visa for UK, you cannot fly from US to India, let them do similar check going from India to any other country through London/Paris/Frankfurt etc. If you don't have a transit visa don't allow them to board. Make it clear at the time of booking itself.

There are multiple options now to US, and others can pick up the slack. Countries like the Middle east, Singapore, Hong Kong etc gives out transit visas when you are stuck and you need to be accommodated in hotels. The European countries act all high and might. AF doesn't require transit visas if you have valid US/Canadian visas. Many of the people transiting through Paris are IT professionals/businessmen/parents of children settled in US/Canada. Highly unlikely that they will stay back illegally in Paris, of all places.

If India really forces the airlines to take care of passengers that it is transporting from India, the airlines and EU countries will quickly start doing the right thing. Just force AF/BA to insist every passenger to fly through their hub from India needs to get a transit visa, and they will see how their booking plummet!
 
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Pellegrine
Posts: 2312
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:33 am

AF would really have a problem if they treated me in such a manner. I've used AF before, and so have some of my family and friends going to Africa and Paris on business.

Just horrid.

There have been many stories about AF/French persons being nasty like this to Indians...including stories on FlyerTalk. What gives? It seems Indians are treated worse than black French-speaking Africans (of which MANY travel on AF), why?
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
bennett123
Posts: 8985
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:23 am

mad99

I do not understand the point about a BBQ and river cruise.

Perhaps, I missed your humour.
 
TYCOON
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:20 pm

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:25 am

I may say something controversial here... but then again I could care less.
In reading this person's letter, I found it very irritating, pedantic and frankly if I received such a letter, I wouldn't even respond... it would go straight to the trash bin.
There is something about certain Indian nationals' behaviour that I personally find distasteful, and I am sure that is the basic reason why some may be up for poor treatment.
Just this past weekend, checking in at a Hyatt Regency hotel in Paris, I saw a middle aged Indian gentleman basically yelling at the front desk personnell because they could not provide him with a room at 11am (check-in time is 3pm). The front desk employee (French) was very polite, calm, and explained to the very rude gentleman that nothing could be done just yet, as they had no rooms available and he couldn't just "kick some one out early" (check-out time is noon). But assured him as soon as a room became available he would do the utmost to allocate him the room.
The Indian wasn't happy and demanded being upgraded to a suite... A really silly circus honestly, and I was glad the hotel employee stood his ground, and politely so.
Well, maybe this Indian gentleman posted on some hotel travel site about a "horrible, racist" experience he had at the Hyatt Regency in France...
Just saying....
 
AR385
Posts: 6927
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:20 am

Quoting frunzaverde (Reply 7):
There's no racism, they treat everybody like scum there, even the locals get the parisian attitude. "J'aime rien, je suis parisien", you'll find that on many stickers in town.

Having lived in Paris for a few years I can attest to that. They are pretty egalitarian. Everybody gets treated like scum.

Quoting frunzaverde (Reply 7):
Another favorite was being shouted at for using in the priority lanes for "not looking like business class type and not beloning there"

The only reason I find "French helps" is in yelling back to the person who started yelling in the first place. Every single time somebody yelled at me I responded in kind. You´d be surprised how that helps. I´ve had that happen at AF, Travel Agencies, Le Metro, sandwich shops etc.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
That type of a sarcastic, impolite letter to an airline CEO isn't the way to get a positive response. He would have been much better advised to write a polite and much shorter letter outlining the issues and advising what type of compensation he would find acceptable, and not publish it on the internet.

I don´t see anywhere a demand for compensation. He is in fact pursuing legal action. I think at this point the OP gives a hoot about getting a positive response.

AF in the air is generally great. They may be inconsistent, but when they do things right it can be a great flight. However, their ground services, particulary at CDG suck frankly. I´m glad I´m no longer required to fly them. I go with LH.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:04 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 20):
mad99

I do not understand the point about a BBQ and river cruise.

Funeral pyre beside the Ganges

Seriously,the priority of a person heading for a funeral is a lower priority than a person travelling to be with a seriously ill near relative, the latter needs if at all possible to arrive asap, the funeral cana lways be delayed.


The whole saga is symptomatic of France, I love it as a country for its countryside, cuisine and "lets not work too hard" attitude, perfect for a holiday. Would I want to do business there ? certainly not, start late, 2 hours for lunch, close for August , shut early. Rules for everything. Its the only Country I know of where shops and restaurants in tourist areas shut for the owners own holidays in peak season.
If you can't grasp their culture its a place best avoided.
 
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mad99
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:15 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 20):
BBQ and river cruise.

the 27 yo's dad had died so in India they have a pyre (bbq) then throw the body in the Ganges.

A girl here in the office did a tour of indan last year and during the boat cruse on the ganges two partial bodies bumped along the side of the boat!

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 21):
certain Indian nationals

Its just people. On a recent flight the girl next to me was devastated to not get the pasta option...



Quoting AR385 (Reply 22):
Everybody gets treated like scum.

i don't! All was good to me
 
TYCOON
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:20 pm

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:20 pm

Bongodo1964, having lived in both the UK and France, give me France any day of the week, month or year... A much better quality of life than the UK... Your post is risible in its clichés... most of which is actually not true...

And comparing FRA personnel to CDG personnel, much prefer the ground service I get in CDG than in FRA... just going through the security lines and passport checks when connecting or originating in FRA is a most unpleasant experience (even the "priority" lines are slow... not the case at CDG).
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 7984
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:29 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
That type of a sarcastic, impolite letter to an airline CEO isn't the way to get a positive response. He would have been much better advised to write a polite and much shorter letter outlining the issues and advising what type of compensation he would find acceptable, and not publish it on the internet.
Quoting baexecutive (Reply 17):
I agree. All the dramatics could be cut for a more concise record of what happened and what needs to be done to satisfy the complaint

I think that you have both missed the point. I for one doubt that this was ever sent to M. de Juniac. Rather this letter was entirely intended to "go viral". If it is true that they are receiving legal advice, then their lawyers would write to Air France with a professional, concise account of the grounds that give rise to the legal issue. That would be the "official" letter.

And then there is this one. It is a regrettable fact of life in the iAge that things must "go viral" to get attention. That is a fact. That is why people now express their frustration over Twitter rather than through call centres, as the company must respond to save face. By writing this letter the author made sure that the whole world knew about it, and Air France must respond or face a PR disaster.

Let me put it to you another way. If the letter read: "Pursuant to the cancellation of AFxxx on October x, I have received legal advise that Air France-KLM S.A. failed to comply with the requirement of Section 191(2)(g)........" *yawn* would we be hearing about it? Hell no.

I don't agree with the Twitterization of society, but it is a fact of life and this letter plays into its hands beautifully.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
blrsea
Posts: 1919
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:55 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 24):
the 27 yo's dad had died so in India they have a pyre (bbq) then throw the body in the Ganges.

er, if you don't know about customs, better to keep quiet and not display your ignorance.   Not everyone stays close to river Ganga. The body is fully burned to ashes, and then the ashes are dispersed in rivers considered holy, or in sea. And near river Ganga, some people at the crematorium throw half burned bodies in the river if no one claims them, or sometimes to just make way for the next body. That is illegal, but some people get away with it.

And in many cities, there are electric crematoriums for burning bodies.

In many places in rural areas, wood is available in plenty, so they burn the body using wood . The same way many people have electric fireplaces and wood fireplaces.

And please have some respect for the dead, comparing the funeral to bbq   ?? This sort of insensitivity and condescending behavior of many europeans is what irks people.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7229
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:41 pm

Quoting blrsea (Reply 12):
This is not the first time AF is behaving this badly with Indian passengers.

Yet Indian passport holders buy tickets on AF. Why subject themselves to racism.

I know quite a few Indian origins choose AF for their visiting parents holding Indian passports. That is the most despicable thing one can do to their parents, knowing that AF is a badly run airline, its staff has attitude, they can go on strike at any moment, they don't have that many flights to anywhere to rebook on same day and 100% guaranteed Indian passport holders wouldn't get land-side transit visa. I haven't list the racism aspect, yet.

Quoting buck3y3nut (Reply 14):
I was just appalled at the fact that a woman traveling in J was allowed on a flight whereas a 28 year old begging to be put on the flight to fulfill his duties as a son towards the last rites/rituals was not... I can only imagine the horror, stress, emotions going through that man's mind...

Western world understands only one pain, liability payment. Sue them in India and collect money, there is no point trying explain customs and rituals.

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 21):
There is something about certain Indian nationals' behaviour that I personally find distasteful, and I am sure that is the basic reason why some may be up for poor treatment.

May be, same is true for Chinese nationals. Only difference, if a country does this to Chinese nationals, every one from that country visiting China get a complementary cavity search for a week. That settles the score, next time Chinese are treated with respect.

[Edited 2013-10-31 08:01:18]
 
Baexecutive
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:29 pm

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 21):

LOL I found it highly irritating and very self indulgent and tbh stopped reading after the fourth paragraph (as would most who have a life).... If the purpose so to get people on an airline chat forum chatting then it's worked....it's effectiveness anywhere else is doubtful...is it on twitter? Is it going Viral? LMAO
 
Lentini2001
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:53 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:40 pm

I really do think you have over-milked this by trying to be too clever.

The constant quoting of the guys name all the time, just makes you look a bit of a tool really - looks like you read a made-up complaint letter for another company that went viral and decided to copy it.

But good luck.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:36 pm

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 25):
Bongodo1964, having lived in both the UK and France, give me France any day of the week, month or year... A much better quality of life than the UK... Your post is risible in its clichés... most of which is actually not true...

I wasn't knocking them, I admire them for getting away with it for so long. Its a recorded fact that the French have the shortest working hours and longest holidays of anywhere in the EU. Its also well known that they pay little attention to all the laws that the EU has, most definitely French first and Europeans 2nd. I've found that its a Country where speaking a little French goes a long way, if the complainant tried to converse in English I wouldn't be surprised if they just shrugged their shoulders whether they understood him or not. After all its their Country and their rules. As to my "clichés" I've just reported what I've found on my visits to France, the latest of which was only two months ago.
 
buck3y3nut
Topic Author
Posts: 824
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:38 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:39 pm

Quoting Lentini2001 (Reply 30):

Are you referring to me? Cause I did not write this. Merely just pasted here as this is the first time I read something like this...
 
nicode
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:58 pm

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:43 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 31):
Its a recorded fact that the French have the shortest working hours and longest holidays of anywhere in the EU

This is not the case. Austria and Malta have more holidays (and public holidays) than France (38), followed by Greece and Poland (37).
Great Britain, Spain, France and Sweden are next with 36 days.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5983
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:38 pm

What an annoying letter. I'm afraid that I'm unable to focus on the actual events, as the letter itself distracts with a very pretentious writing style, blatantly ripped off from the Richard Branson meal complaint letter. It completely fails to deliver.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
AR385
Posts: 6927
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:18 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 34):
What an annoying letter. I'm afraid that I'm unable to focus on the actual events, as the letter itself distracts with a very pretentious writing style, blatantly ripped off from the Richard Branson meal complaint letter. It completely fails to deliver.

Yep. It is annoying. However it was mentioned up-thread that this might be the "youtube version" and that there might be another, actually sent to AF which is more concise. Either way, you can tell how fed up the guy is.
 
AyostoLeon
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 3:09 pm

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:34 am

It must have been distressing for all to have faced such a lengthy delay and if the depiction of the attitude of AF ground staff and the paltriness of meals grudgingly provided is accurate, then AF needs to lift its game.

The issuance of visas is not the concern of AF beyond complying with statutory requirements. In the event of a delay or cancellation, all they can do is notify the authorities of the cancellation and offer assistance in obtaining visas for those who require them. The decision to issue an individual visa is outside their control. Perhaps the French government could review its requirements for transit visas.

Quoting buck3y3nut (Reply 14):
I was just appalled at the fact that a woman traveling in J was allowed on a flight

Do we know why the woman was flying? Can we be sure that her needs were not equally pressing? And, in any case, do airlines typically bump J passengers in favour of those in Y?

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 21):
maybe this Indian gentleman posted on some hotel travel site about a "horrible, racist" experience he had

Some people appear use the word "racist" as a general term of abuse rather than as a specific accusation. It's a bit like some people referring to others as "bastards", despite their parents being married.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 28):
Yet Indian passport holders buy tickets on AF. Why subject themselves to racism.

How many Indians are there? What percentage travel AF, requiring a transfer in CDG. Not all those passengers would know each other or compare stories and like people elsewhere, Indian travellers are likely to make bookings based on affordability, origin and destination, frequency and availability. Millions of passengers travel each year and some have problems, others do not. It's just the same when we read about FR: some people have a bad experience yet millions continue to fly and are satisfied with the service provided.
The person with no dignity eats his dinner twice
 
AR385
Posts: 6927
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:43 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 36):
How many Indians are there? What percentage travel AF, requiring a transfer in CDG. Not all those passengers would know each other or compare stories and like people elsewhere, Indian travellers are likely to make bookings based on affordability, origin and destination, frequency and availability. Millions of passengers travel each year and some have problems, others do not. It's just the same when we read about FR: some people have a bad experience yet millions continue to fly and are satisfied with the service provided.

It is well known that travellers from India get a different treatment on European airlines from/to Europe-India. Just in this site you will find threads about that. Is it more than anecdotal evidence? No, it´s not. But still, when you hear such a thing from different sources there must be some truth to it.

Just like Latin American passengers get treated on IB flights to/from Europe.
 
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mad99
Posts: 1200
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:01 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 37):
Just like Latin American passengers get treated on IB flights to/from Europe.

I don't fly with IB and i'm not a latin american but i doubt they get treated any different.

Emigration control might be different because so many come here illegally. A few years ago i saw a programme that said a Bolivian airline had outbound flights full and overbooked return flights by as much as 200% and those were less then half full.
 
AR385
Posts: 6927
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:33 am

Quoting mad99 (Reply 38):
I don't fly with IB and i'm not a latin american but i doubt they get treated any different.

I had to travel with IB for a while and I am Latin American (most of the time) and yes, they get treated pretty different. I´ve also taken IB flights ex MAD to JFK, MIA and ORD and the treatment to passengers in those routes is completely different. It came to the point that I had to renegotiate my contract so they would put me on AM when flying to MAD ex MEX. And Surprisingly, AM is actually better than IB. At least for that route. And by the way, this was in the 80s, then later in the 90s, then in the 2000s. They just don´t seem to have the capacity to change.

Many times I heard the term "sudacas" spoken in the galley by cabin crew and you know what that means. Did I complain? Sure. Did IB ever responded? Of course you know the answer to that.

So if you don´t fly with them and are not Latin American you are not really in a position to say much about their service in those routes.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 38):
Emigration control might be different because so many come here illegally. A few years ago i saw a programme that said a Bolivian airline had outbound flights full and overbooked return flights by as much as 200% and those were less then half full.

Let´s not go there please because it´s opening an entirely different can of worms of which an entire thread can be developed and I believe there was one a few months ago.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7892
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:50 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 9):
This happens almost once every year to Indian citizens at CDG. Why is it even a surprise/story every time? Neither side seem to have figure out what to do. Some one should write up some SOPs.

I myself have heard of horror stories at CDG but it seems to only happen to those who aren't white or asian.... it's entire BS if you ask me, how some are treated at CDG.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
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mad99
Posts: 1200
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RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:38 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 39):
So if you don´t fly with them and are not Latin American you are not really in a position to say much about their service in those routes.

Iberia is the market leader to latam so either your experience was a one off or latin americans like abuse so its a perfect fit!!




http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-america-competitive-setting-81071
 
AR385
Posts: 6927
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: One Night In Paris - Air France Complaint Blog

Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting mad99 (Reply 41):
Iberia is the market leader to latam so either your experience was a one off or latin americans like abuse so its a perfect fit!!

Either you have problems reading English, or you just don´t want to accept things because I clearly specified I taveled IB many times and over 3 decades and what I wrote has been the standard so no, it was not a one off.

As for Latin Americans liking abuse and that being a perfect fit you´re so out of line with that statement there´s nothing to discuss in that regard. You know how many of them are treated in Spain so if you meant that as a joke that is a pretty bad one.

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