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tyler81190
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Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:15 am

I know already I will be blasted for this.

Why is it that in the US, passengers are so needy? They all expect everything for a next to nothing fare. They are surprised when they are told there is a baggage fee. Apparently they think the airline will wait for them if they are running late, and that a check-in cutoff does not apply to them "because they have a ticket." I have seen passengers try to convince a gate agent that their 3 carry-on bags were actually only 2 because the two rolling bags were sitting next to each other, or how rules do not apply to them because they are in FIRST CLASS!! Where does this mentality come from? Everyone seems to think that if a flight is 30 minutes late, they will get some crazy compensation, even if they are still making their original connection!

I have traveled extensively throughout the US, and Europe, and I have to say passengers here are the most irrational.

Any thoughts?
 
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AirAfreak
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:18 am

Hmmm, where should I aim? lol!!!!!! I'm kidding!!!!

Here is a gentle suggestion: Might I suggest opening your thought with "in my opinion, in my experience, etc.," because generalizations and stereotypes are un-fair. Again, just a gentle suggestion. =]

I would like to share a few thoughts with your experience:

I have seen very poor behavior, lately, as in the past decade. For example, I was standing in the First Class Check-in and two businessmen queuing behind me were making snide remarks about DL and DL Ground Staff and how they needed to "summon" a Red Coat Agent. There was a weather delay of roughly 4 hours. There was a phone call and text message from Delta Messenger Service, so I was informed and had zero issues with the delay. Maybe they didn't get that memo and maybe they did not use all of the available customer assistance tools which are free and widely available to whom can read and write, comprehend cause/effect, and have access to internet. Either way, they blamed DL for basically, the weather delay. They commented how, "this would never happen on [insert competing airline here]" and this is unacceptable. The other complaint was the pace of the check-in line moving slow. I should point out, DL had deployed their ground staff at all check-in "positions" from Economy to SkyPriority to assist passengers (including myself) with re-booking. What more could one ask for? In any case, I was embarrassed for them. And I don't mind paying for additional comforts and amenities to make my traveling experience a pleasure. HOWEVER, if I am spending roughly ~2,000 USD for a roundtrip between LAX and ATL in First, I do not want to listen to anyone whine and complain and ruin my peaceful morning as a leisure passenger. Complaining is unattractive and toxic. (I did not have my ipod w/me that day, unfortunately).

Furthermore, I approached the ladies at check-in and exchanged pleasantries and had a nice check-in experience with them. I also apologized for the rude behavior of the two obnoxious men behind me and the lady (more like wretch) about 11 or 12 check-in positions down. She was L-O-U-D. I mentioned how noticeably, there is a very different "type" of passenger these days and they knew exactly what I was talking about. The self-entitlement of MOST and not, ALL.

I really believe it comes down to how one is raised. I believe children are the product of their parents. Unfortunately, I seldom hear, "ma'am, sir, please, thank you" anymore. I am in my thirties and I am gob-smacked when I see/hear passengers 20, 30, maybe 40 years my senior misbehaving and speaking to various staff with such innocuous behavior.

In my experience, the probability of negative behavior might be higher (and expected) in Los Angeles, however, I have seen childish behavior in places like Atlanta, Houston, Tampa, etc.; the places where one might expect better behavior as "Southern Hospitality" again, a generalization, is expected. But you see, the skies are contagious with the good and the bad. Bad behavior has been seen in all over the world, not just the USA. Our personal experiences are all based on circumstance.

One could argue in reference to my LAX-ATL flight on DL in paid "F" (not miles, and by me - some people here seem to care about that minor detail, I don't understand why) , this is the United States of America and we have Freedom of Speech, so if I don't like it, then charter a jet so I don't have to listen to people complain. The truth is, I can afford a First Class ticket here and there, however, chartering a jet is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of my budget - unless my desire in life is to visit Orange County and only then, I could afford to do so. When I travel in Economy, I "get it" and understand how sitting in a tightly-pitched seat is not something to look forward to. This is why you save another 100 dollars or maybe less, and pay for it! Otherwise, shut up and take a hike! =]

I thought this was an interesting post, so please take my reply for what it is. I just wanted to let you know there are some of "us" out there whom research options, read the fine print, and educate ourselves about what to expect BEFORE moving the cursor onto and clicking "confirm payment." I'm only entitled to what I pay for and nothing beyond that. If I pay for a seat with extra-legroom, then I am entitled to, at the very minimum, THAT. If I want to check-in luggage, I am entitled to doing so by either: a) paying for it b) signing up for the airline-branded credit card c) purchasing a Business or First Class fare d) is there a "d"??? otherwise, don't pack any luggage.

Side note: I loathe using this term, "entitled." It has a correlation to "needy," in my opinion. =]

Okay, I hope you have some really constructive responses. This is an interesting topic to post. I look forward to reading all of the replies!

Cheers and Bon Voyage,

Air Afreak =]
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
tyler81190
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:39 am

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 1):
blamed DL for basically, the weather delay

First, I would like to thank you for your very well thought out reply!

I should clarify, I do not mean literally "ALL" passengers but a significant majority of them. I agree, I am only in my 20s but I was raised with manners, and am always as polite as can be. I know there are many people like me and you who know how the world works (what goes around comes around), but we are few and far between. I see news reports of the people that are to protect us (TSA and FAMs) stealing from passengers or taking photos up womens skirts etc.

I have personally seen passengers cursing at airline employees for no reason other than their race or sexual orientation, or because airlines somehow control the weather and have ruined their holiday outing... I have also seen people literally lose their mind when they have to pay an overweight baggage fee, or realize they cannot change flights for free. When they are not able to sit in a Y+ seat for free, or do not get an upgrade that they think they deserve because it is a special occasion or because they think their $125 ticket merits a first class upgrade.

My largest "Airport Culture Shock" was in YYZ with Air Canada... Their passengers know the drill, they know they have to use the kiosk to check in, they know the cut off time, they know there is a fee for bags trans-border flights. I was astonished to realize that Air Canada does NOT give complimentary upgrades to ANY elite member, and they are ok with that?? Reading some of the travel blogs and Airline facebook pages, you would think the world was coming to an end when there is a weather delay, or a major catastrophe such as Asiana in SFO or yesterday's LAX incident, and people ripped on all the airlines for the delays. No regard for the loss of life that happened in either occasion. Is this really how our culture has developed? I am sad every time I see passengers abusing agents (who sometimes we all forget are regular working folks like many of us)
 
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AirAfreak
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:08 am

Hello again,

+ I was only kidding with you earlier and knew you did not mean "all" passengers from/within the USA; was just offering a gentle suggestion as to avoid the airliners.net assassination squad! lol!!! =]

+ In my opinion, I feel the "victims" have not educated themselves by not reading the various headings such as "traveling with us" or "at the airport," etc.. Less informed = More ignorance. I thought by now, everybody knows, certain restrictions apply.

+ Again, glad to participate in this thread. I look forward to reading other responses.

+ I gather by the number of "views" of this thread, the guilty parties "need not reply." lol!!!

+ "World-Class, Worldwide, Air Canada." Remember that slogan? I've had really great flying experiences with Air Canada! I quite miss flying them, actually.

Cheers!
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
tyler81190
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:19 am

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 3):
I was only kidding with you earlier and knew you did not mean "all" passengers from/within the USA; was just offering a gentle suggestion as to avoid the airliners.net assassination squad!

Ha ha i know

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 3):
In my opinion, I feel the "victims" have not educated themselves by not reading the various headings such as "traveling with us" or "at the airport," etc.. Less informed = More ignorance. I thought by now, everybody knows, certain restrictions apply.

I know!! but I myself am a bit of a nerd. I have read several airline's Contract of Carriage... Lengthy, but VERY informing... I think many passengers would be shocked at how little an airline is REQUIRED to do, and how OFTEN they break their own rules to help the passenger...
 
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AirAfreak
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:36 am

WOW. The Contract of Carriage? You, too??!!! I have only read this once. This occurred on a Pan Am flight from Frankfurt to Washington/Dulles on a 747SP. I was bored beyond all belief. I couldn't take any more photos from my old Kodak camera because I dropped it on the floor of the plane and it broke. After listening to the same music and the same commercials from my in-seat arm rest, I decided to pull out the "Cabin Class" ticket jacket and read The Contract of Carriage and The Warsaw Convention attached to a thermal sheet of paper. This killed about 30 minutes of my flight. Never again. lol!!!!

Remember the super-soaker water guns? Maybe, ground staff should fill them with cold water and spray the unruly and willful passengers so they can "chill-out" or "chillax" or "chill out at LAX" ha ha ha Okay, nerd moment over. =]
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AR385
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:26 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Thread starter):
Why is it that in the US, passengers are so needy? They all expect everything for a next to nothing fare. They are surprised when they are told there is a baggage fee.

Mmmmh. Where exactly is F9 based?

Generalizations are not good. The behavior you described is not limited to the US. I´ve seen it everywhere. Europe, Asia, Latin America, etc. It´s human behavior, nothing to do with nationality. There are also some very well educated passengers as Airfreak seems to be.

[Edited 2013-11-02 01:34:51]

[Edited 2013-11-02 01:35:19]
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:21 am

I'm not going to subscribe to any theory that American travellers are all awful and everyone elsewhere is perfect, that's just b***ocks, but I have noticed some interesting trends through my travels, and on the balance of probabilities I have noticed that you are more likely to see the sort of behavior you allude to in the USA. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

One thing I notice is that flying is so stressful in the USA compared to elsewhere. I've been trying to figure out why, and honestly don't know. I know it's an easy target, but the TSA is part of it. At the end of the day their job is exactly the same as security officers all over the world, and yet I find that going through TSA generally takes longer, and is an all-up more harassed affair, than most other places I know. Now I'm sure somebody will take offence to this comment and tell us about one time they were in CDG/DXB/TOM, but on average I feel that TSA lines are longer. Also, the attitude of some TSA officers is quite something. Screaming at me to take my shoes off isn't going to make me take them off any quicker, I promise you that. Of course I am somewhat generalising here, and when I lived in GSO we had some great TSA officers. Lines were short and the officers friendly and polite. It's at larger airports where I've had problems, but overall I find that TSA raises my stress levels by a significant magnitude compared to the exact same procedures in other countries. That doesn't make for a pleasant airport experience, and I think it generally makes passengers bitchy as they hate the airport experience.

Another one is that I never understood why overhead bins are always full and it takes so long to board in the USA. I get it, a lot of people won't pay $25, but the amount of luggage people bring onboard is mind-boggling. I fly domestic flights in Australia at least once a month, and it's normal for the overhead bins to be half-empty. Similarly, and probably related, QF board their 767s 20 minutes prior to departure, and depart on time. In the USA I've known it take much longer than that to board a 737. I'm not sure that there is an easy fix to the baggage situation, but it does slow down boarding, fill up overhead bins, means that people can't sit near that hand baggage, or worse still have it gate checked. All of this makes people frustrated and irritable.

I could go on, but all-up I think that the point I'm trying to make is that flying in the USA is now so frustrating for many passengers, that they end up hating on the system and everyone and everything that represents it. They go in expecting a bad experience, which means that they are already stressed with pent-up negativity, and snap when things go wrong. To take a comparison (it is an unfair comparison - I do acknowledge that) domestic flying in Australia is very relaxing: arrive at the airport 30 minutes before departure, no lines for security, few delays, hassle free boarding where nobody tries to cut the line to get their bag in the overhead bin before its full etc. etc. etc. This makes for an easier experience, and there is a palpable difference in the passengers attitudes. They are more cooperative and friendlier towards the crew when necessary. I don't think it's cultural, but rather people here don't feel that the system hates them, and therefore don't hate the system.

Maybe I haven't worded that particularly well, but hopefully you understand what I am suggesting.

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 2):
I was astonished to realize that Air Canada does NOT give complimentary upgrades to ANY elite member

I'm not aware of any airline outside of the USA that does.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
hoons90
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:07 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7):

I'm not aware of any airline outside of the USA that does.

Copa Airlines
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srbmod
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:51 pm

I've long held the belief that once people get inside of an airport, they get dumber. It's almost as though some people checked their brains in with their checked bag. I've witnessed this not only as a passenger, but also while working at an airport. I think the ever increasing fees that travelers are being charged does fuel some of the anger, but having worked in the airline industry in the days before they started charging all these fees, some of that anger and demands was already there.


This honestly isn't isolated to the airline industry. People seem to expect 4 star service at a 2 star price and get mad when they don't get it. A lot of this has to do with how the Internet changed the way people book travel and getting the cheapest fares and room rates is a lot easier in the past. The problem is that some people expect the same level of service that they may have gotten 10-15 years ago. This is also true in regards to hotels. If you booked your room through someone like Hotwire.com, you're taking a gamble and don't get mad if the hotel ends up being less than ideal or they stick you in a less than ideal room at a decent hotel (which is some I had happen to me recently, but I fully expected it because of the booking being done through Hotwire). Several years ago, I was staying at the Golden Nugget in their brand new tower (which had opened up several days earlier) and a few guests that booked for that tower obviously didn't read the room details as well as the hotel policies. There was one couple that got mad because the tower was a non-smoking tower (which was clearly mentioned in the room description for the tower) and another couple that got mad because the tower didn't have any double queen rooms available (that tower only has a handful of such rooms and they're booked pretty quickly and rarely show up on the booking portal) and their kid would have to sleep on the sofa (plus they weren't happy about the amount of the hold on the credit card). Not to mention the hotels jumping on the resort fee bandwagon, which is nearly is bad as the checked bag fees. Some hotels are charging fees that were obviously borrowed from the airline industry. Some of them now charge you to book via the telephone, even if you are booking a player's club offer or are calling to change dates or cancel a booking.

A lot of the anger and frustration could easily be avoided if people would actually take the time to read the policies, fees, charges, etc. prior to booking. The problem is that much like with the EULA on software, people simple cannot be bothered to read them.

I'm not a demanding passenger at all, but even I've been driven to the brink on a few flights because of the actions of an airline or passengers. Several years ago, I had splurged on a First Class ticket and when I am in line to board, I see that my seat assignment has been given to another passenger. Did the gate agents call me up to the desk to inform me of my new seat assignment? Nope, as I had been in the gate area for the better part of an hour and had stepped away for maybe 5 minutes and if they had called me during that time, multiple attempts would have been made to call me. I'm steaming mad as I'm walking down the jetway, mumbling and cursing the airline for not properly informing me of the new seating assignment. I get on the plane and it was one that had been reconfigured, which explained the new seating assignment and was actually better than the old layout and that settled me down rather quickly. Last year, I had an issue with a passenger in my row encroaching into my seat in Economy Comfort. I post a tweet on Twitter complaining about paying for the Economy Comfort upgrade and not getting the entire seat I paid for. The Delta Assist account at first was none too helpful, as they suggested asking the gate agents to reseat me. The problem was that we were an hour into the flight. I give them my flight number and they ended up refunding the upgrade fee for both of my flights. I was expecting maybe I'd get some SkyMiles for my troubles, but getting the upgrade fee refunded on both legs was more than I expected.
 
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AirAfreak
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:44 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):

Hi there!

Hope all is well. Thank you for the nice compliment! =]

I am a firm believer that knowledge is power and we are free to make decisions. We suffer consequences based on our ignorance or lack of poor planning. I always have Plan B - at home, in the office, and everywhere else. After all, flying is a privilege and not a right.

Cheers!

Air Afreak =]
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
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AirAfreak
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:13 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7):

Hello there!

I really welcome your use of the word, "trend." Thank you! =]

In regards to your observations of passengers pre-flight behavior; you are most accurate. How unfortunate must one be to have such negative energy, pre-airport! As mentioned before, I am a leisure passenger and very seldom, do I start my day pre-flight with any negative thoughts. If I were flying on business trips, I feel nothing will change as I really enjoy flying and aviation. This is why I have a membership for airliners.net! =]

Typically, I like to sleep in, have a leisurely and complete breakfast, and open a window or two and let the fresh California breezes sail through my home. After watching a little television, I like to start packing and then find something nice to wear on the plane. I arrange for transportation to pick me up so my traveling day is seamless. Upon arriving at the airport, I check-in, return to the curbside area, and have a nice cigarette. Through security and onto the next bar or SkyClub for a refreshment are the next steps. And finally, I settle into my seat thinking about absolutely nothing. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, this is what weekends away and vacations are for. The sky is my opportunity to forget everything and worry about nothing. I'm in heaven. =]

Anyway, not to stray off topic, however, I am sharing this because flying can be care-free and seamless when one knows the rules and level of expectations of service associated with ticket type.

I'm not trying to be a traitor to my fellow North-"American" (U.S.A.) passenger, however, I wish the complaining would end. The U.S. is known for excellent customer service i.e. retail shops, restaurants, etc... why spoil the vibe, you know?

Have a great day all!

AirAfreak =]
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:29 am

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 11):
I am sharing this because flying can be care-free and seamless when one knows the rules and level of expectations of service associated with ticket type

Oh I agree. I actually quite enjoy flying in the USA (sorry, I left that bit out) but a lot passengers don't know what we know. Because they don't understand why things happen, they don't like it. And because they don't like it, they have a negative attitude.

Just my 2c, and please feel free to disagree  
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AirAfreak
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:08 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 12):

Haha! I don't disagree with you, at all! =]

I think it's entertaining to fly within the USA because you can play fun games such as, "Spot the tourist arriving from Hawaii," or "I spy [insert a number] wheelchairs at Gate 62 to Florida!" I also like playing games such as "Miracle at Gate 47" where you see boarding queues perfectly organized with all passengers in single-file!

Flying can be pleasant AND fun!!!! Wooooooohoooooooo!!!!!!! (Maybe it's the laid-back Californian (by the way of Boston) in me. =]

Cheers!
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
tyler81190
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:16 am

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 10):
After all, flying is a privilege and not a right.

I am a FIRM believer in that statement... I really think most passengers think it is their right to fly, and that it is not a privilege.
 
icarus75
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:39 am

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 1):
I really believe it comes down to how one is raised. I believe children are the product of their parents. Unfortunately, I seldom hear, "ma'am, sir, please, thank you" anymore. I am in my thirties and I am gob-smacked when I see/hear passengers 20, 30, maybe 40 years my senior misbehaving and speaking to various staff with such innocuous behavior.

Thumb up!  
I travel within Europe for the work at least twice a week with Air France and I have the chance to do it either in Business or Premium Economy.
While boarding through Sky Priority, I always see people behaving badly, doing as if they were gods only because they are in the Sky Priority line. And you should see the way some of them are treating the flight attendants!!!
And these people are not young and supposed to be well educated!
Flying is amazing!
 
AyostoLeon
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:49 pm

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 10):
After all, flying is a privilege and not a right.
Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 14):
I really think most passengers think it is their right to fly, and that it is not a privilege.

If a passenger holds a valid ticket and abides by the conditions of contract and the conditions of carriage then it is indeed a right. The passenger has entered into a contract with the carrier to convey the passenger. If I make a purchase it is not a privilege to receive that for which I have paid. It is my right and the failure to honour the contract on the part of the provider is actionable.

Flying may not be a constitutional right but it is a legal right if an airline issues a ticket for travel and denies boarding without just cause under the terms of the contract. However, I don't believe that having a contract for carriage entitles anyone to behave like a jerk or to expect more than has been agreed to by both parties and paid for at the time of entering into the contract. If a carrier wishes to provide services or benefits over and above that which they are obliged to, that is a bonus but is certainly not something to be expected.
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AirAfreak
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:33 pm

Quoting icarus75 (Reply 15):

In addition to your observation, it's [some] parents flying with their small children (all flying in Business) and allowing the little monsters to climb onto an armrest between me and a family member to say hello. May I add, the child in question climbed in between two L'espace 127 seats (2-2-2) FROM the row behind???!!!! Yes, this was a very long flight from Paris to Los Angeles and there wasn't enough "eau de vie" (Poire Williams) in the cabin to rid me of this insanity!!!

Side note: Air France is one of my favorite airlines - of all time! I have been flying with them since I was a child and my first elite status with any airline was with AF as a "Rouge" passenger. (I had to mention this because it was obvious my flight was with AF and we see notorious comments about AF quite frequently on this forum). Again, it's all about circumstance and how one can see the good with the bad. =]



Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 16):

I agree with your comments. =]

I was taking this use of "privilege" one-step further, so I will elaborate. There are several modes of transport made widely available to the public such as bus, train, and ship. If a passenger has a time-constraint, for example, and finds a delay attached to their scheduled flight (for whatever reason), the airline and ground staff do not deserve "hell on Earth." (And I am not implying this was mentioned by anyone, just saying). The purchase of a plane ticket was made by choice (preference) and NOT by force.

The reason for the need to arrive at a destination (on-time) is not the problem of the ground staff or the airline. Anyone with cognitive thinking can/should see there is something in life called, "cause and effect." Life has that answer.

When my grandmother passed away, there was a funeral and this was of course, scheduled on a certain day at a certain time. I was scheduled to fly Los Angeles-Orlando-Atlanta-Asheville as I purchased my plane ticket approximately 3 or 4 days prior to departure and all of the one-stop itineraries were unavailable. Upon arrival into Los Angeles, the kiosk at Delta check-in notified me of a flight delay to Orlando. The non-stop to Orlando was overbooked AND the inbound aircraft was delayed. Furthermore, the flights to Atlanta were all full and nothing was available until 6 am; a delay of 7 hours. Hotel compensation was offered, however, I prefer my own wondrous bed and I was already home. Instead of giving up hope, I asked if it would be possible to leave my boarding pass with the agent and relax in the SkyClub in case something should happen in my favor. As circumstance would have it, a seat was available on a roughly 01:00 ~ 01:30 nonstop to Memphis changing planes to another DL flight to Detroit and then finally, Asheville. I was the last family member arriving at the church (late) but it happens. The contract is still honored, but with anything in life, certain restrictions apply. *wink*

I eventually arrived at my destination and this is all Delta was expected to do. (My grandmother already passed, so where is she going to go?) If I missed the funeral, then all I could do is visit her grave and pay my respects - which would have been done, anyway. Again, all based on my choice to fly instead of taking a train, driving my car, or sailing by Carnival Cruise around the Panama Canal to reach the other side of the USA. No reason to be upset with anyone.

Okay, maybe I can yell at the 757 and say, "curse you 757!!!!" lol!!!! But, poor little 757 was a little tired by the late hour of the night, so I can understand he was moving a little slow arriving into Los Angeles to take me to Orlando! haha! How crazy does that one sound???

So, I stay firm with my statement, "flying is a privilege." In my opinion, it is a privilege and a choice. The lack of education and "homework" causes this poor behavior by some of the flying public. If you don't like the weather or mechanical delay, then go ahead and drive your reliable car to wherever you need to go. (But your car may break). Charter a boat or a plane if you need more control and to fool-proof your journey. Even then, boats break down, too! Am I wrong? We need to end this self-entitlement behavior. Every passenger should read airliners.net and see that airplanes are man-made and from time-to-time, they will break down.

Again, it's nice to have these forums to share ideas and gain different perspective, so I can appreciate reading your thoughts, too! =]

Cheers!
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:28 pm

I think too many have learned from the media, including TV shows, movies, internet, as well as personal observations or that passed around by others, the behavior of bosses/supervisors to them that being loud, mean, bullying and demanding - like Donald Trump on his 'Apprentice' show for example - works. I would also suggest that many are ignorant or fake it to try get what they expected. Too many expect exemptions from rules, fees and be treated the same as the rich or connected. This can apply to many areas of life including school, workplaces, restaurants, service companies and passenger airline service. With air travel that is compounded by the fees, more crowded flights, smaller aircraft, more oppressive and time consuming security, delays in getting to/from airports, less time people have to get someplace to save lodging and other costs, and generally less patience when things go wrong either on their part or others.
 
tyler81190
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:40 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 16):
If a passenger holds a valid ticket and abides by the conditions of contract and the conditions of carriage then it is indeed a right. The passenger has entered into a contract with the carrier to convey the passenger. If I make a purchase it is not a privilege to receive that for which I have paid. It is my right and the failure to honour the contract on the part of the provider is actionable.

Flying is not a right... if it were a right, it would be free or heavily cost regulated.

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 16):
Flying may not be a constitutional right but it is a legal right if an airline issues a ticket for travel and denies boarding without just cause under the terms of the contract.

My issue with this is: Say you have a US Passport... You book a flight USA-FRA-India but do not have a visa for India. The airline will sell you the ticket, as they expect you to have the required documents, but if you do not choose to get the visa, you are S.O.L. The airline will sell anyone a ticket, it is up to the passenger to be fit and documented to fly to ad through all cities on the route, not the airline's. Plus, if you read the entire contract of carriage, the airline is actually only legally liable to get you to your destination, in which they have a year to do so... (very similar verbiage in every airline C.O.C) They do not promise seat assignments, class of service, times, or even that your bag we be there when you are.

There are SO many reason passengers "lose it" and most of those reasons have to do with showing up late, not pre-assigning seats, not knowing baggage fees, not making it to the gate for departure, and delays. (only one of those things is sometimes controllable by the carrier)
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:26 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 19):
if it were a right, it would be free or heavily cost regulated.

What a strange definition of "rights".

My argument is based on the passenger having complied with all conditions of the contract, which includes being in possession of valid travel documents such as passports and visas where necessary. The airline is not responsible for acts of omission by the passenger, whether such omission is late arrival at check-in or boarding gate, not having necessary documentation, etc.

In countries like those within the EU, the rights of passengers in possession of a valid e-ticket and/or boarding pass are clearly enumerated in law and those rights include compensation in certain cases of denied boarding, overbooking, cancellation and/or delay. These rights apply to any flight:
◾departing from any airport situated in the EU, or
◾arriving in the EU with an EU carrier or one from Iceland, Norway or Switzerland.

Such rights include where necessary meals, hotel accommodation and/or rebooking, on another airline if need be. Minimum levels of compensation are set for delays depending on the flight distance and length of delay. If your checked-in luggage is lost, damaged or delayed, you may be entitled to compensation from the airline, up to about €1,220.

The C.O.C. of an airline can not void those rights. An airline may choose to offer more, the passenger may choose to accept some other alternative, but no passenger can be compelled to forego his or her rights as no contract can amend a law and no contract can be amended except by mutual consent.
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:28 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 19):
Flying is not a right
Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 20):
What a strange definition of "rights"

I think that you are talking across each other, and in a sense both correct.

Tyler81190 is using the word "right" in terms of constitutional or civil rights, while AyostoLeo is using it in terms of contractual rights.

Ayosto is correct that passengers have rights flowing from the existence of the contract between them and the airline, while Tyler is correct that people do not have inherent right to air travel. That would be logically absurd.

The spanner in the works, of course, is legislation that provides minimum rights to passengers. The EU scheme is the most obvious example of this, but most jurisdictions have such legislation to a greater or lesser extent.
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:11 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 21):
That would be logically absurd.

I agree that the right to air travel may not be specifically mentioned in the US Constitution but the Supreme Court has in several cases, including Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999), decided that travel is a fundamental right when it has determined that a citizen has the right to leave one state and enter another. The Court has taken the view that in writing the Constitution the right to travel was so fundamental that it did not require specific enumeration. Judgments have rested upon interpretations of Article 4 and the 9th Amendment. Of course, at the time of drafting the Constitution, air travel was not an option, but the Courts have not sought to limit travel to a particular mode, be it foot, horse or boat.

An extract from "49 USC § 40103 - Sovereignty and use of airspace" may be instructive.

Quote:
(a) Sovereignty and Public Right of Transit.—
(1) The United States Government has exclusive sovereignty of airspace of the United States.
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace.

In my view, based on both 49 USC § 40103 and previous rulings of the Supreme Court, unless there is some other impediment (for example, being in or attempting to escape lawful custody , attempting to travel with loaded weapons) a person who wishes to travel by air and has the necessary means to do so has a right to do so. But that does not mean that a specific carrier must carry every person who wishes to travel. They can always fly their own aircraft.  Wink

I was surprised by the suggestion by Tyler81190 that air travel is not a right because if it was it would be free. The right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution but no where is it suggested that citizens should not have to purchase them. Why would it be any different for travel. Contract law only becomes an issue once an airline accepts a booking.

[Edited 2013-11-04 00:28:22]
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:26 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 22):
In my view, based on both 49 USC § 40103 and previous rulings of the Supreme Court, unless there is some other impediment (for example, being in or attempting to escape lawful custody , attempting to travel with loaded weapons) a person who wishes to travel by air and has the necessary means to do so has a right to do so.

The rights that we have vis-a-vis our government do not necessarily translate into rights vis-a-vis private entities. As far as the government is concerned, we have a right to travel by air (except for valid reasons, of course) and the courts can enforce that right and order the government to respect it.

As far as airlines are concerned, however, passengers do not have a right to fly, it is very much a privilege. Airlines can refuse service to anyone for any reason and the most courts can do is fine them if their refusal is deemed illegal, but no court in the US has the authority to compel an airline to sell a ticket it doesn't want to sell (obviously that could be a very expensive position for a carrier to take as the fines might pile up).
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:54 am

But the courts will presumably compel all firms to comply with the contracts that they enter into.

Also, if the delay is excessive, (subject to definition of course) does the airline need to meet your reasonable requirements.

For example, if you enter into a contract to fly on a certain flight, there is an implied statement that flying on that date is important to you.
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:00 am

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 17):
Side note: Air France is one of my favorite airlines - of all time! I have been flying with them since I was a child and my first elite status with any airline was with AF as a "Rouge" passenger. (I had to mention this because it was obvious my flight was with AF and we see notorious comments about AF quite frequently on this forum). Again, it's all about circumstance and how one can see the good with the bad. =]

Air France is also my favorite airline and I have no real complain about!
I see some negative comments on this airline based on one bad experience only and I do not understand!
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:28 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 23):
Airlines can refuse service

Absolutely, which is why the rest of the quote reads, "but that does not mean a specific carrier must carry every person who wishes to travel." My argument is against the unqualified assertion that flying is not a right. Hence the distinction between Constitutional rights and rights under Contract Law that was made.

I agree that an airline does not have to sell a ticket it doesn't wish to but if it does sell the ticket, it can not arbitrarily change the conditions of contract and carriage to avoid its obligations. The contract is binding on both the purchaser and the vendor, despite usually being written by the vendor. An airline might have grounds to not carry a passenger, even if he or she is checked-in, but that is far different to claiming without limitation that flying is not a right.
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:45 pm

It's not just people from the US. There are very needy passengers from all over

I think its a matter of experience. The people I know who travel a lot never seem to complain much.

I remember a friend telling me how AirAsia was terrible and he will never take it again since he had to walk on the tarmac to the plane and they don't serve free drinks onboard. duh! It's an LCC

And another who told me Singapore Air, to quote him, is "the worst airline in the world" because he didn't get his choice of meal on his flight in coach. To top it off, he complained to the chief FA and he was "only" given a deck of cards and a writting kit. That one SQ flight he took was his first flight in 7 years. Enough said!
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:10 pm

Quoting icarus75 (Reply 25):

And with the complaints concerning Air France (most on this forum) should really be reserved for ADP and not AF. Even then, I have never been lost in the airport and I was always flying alone through this airport. I really cannot think of one negative incident with Air France and Roissy/CDG. I have never had an issue with reading and following airport signage to locate my connecting/departing gate nor do I pay attention to the conversations of others - cabin crew or passenger. I have flown multiple times in la Navette/Tempo/Tempo Challenge/Economique/Le Club/L'espace 127 & 180/L'espace Affaires/La Premiere (so many name changes over the years, yet all improvements) and over the years and few decades, I find the service is overall, consistent.

With only one "situation" and very minor to me, my bag did not arrive with me from my CDG-MUC flight. I was given a baggage tracing number for reference, toiletries kit, and the promise of my bag arriving on next flight. Air France delivered my bag all the way to my hotel by the evening so no worries at all!

Air France even went one step further and awarded me extra Frequence Plus miles to my account and offered me $300.00 towards my next flight!!! And I didn't have to write a letter or ask. How great is that?!!!!!

Quoting infinit (Reply 27):

WOW! Seven years without air travel is very rare to hear on this forum! I cannot even imagine the look on your friend's face with so many changes within the airline industry! And to say anything negative about SQ is just wrong! It's like cooking a well-marbled wagyu steak to well-done... you just don't do it!

Suddenly, I need a drink. =]
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 26):
The contract is binding on both the purchaser and the vendor, despite usually being written by the vendor.

Yes, it is, but if the airline refuses to honor their end of the contract, there is no court that has the power to change that. The best that can happen is that a judge will give the airline a choice between honoring their contract or paying monetary damages. If the airline chooses to pay damages, and makes payment, the matter is closed and the contract, the ticket, is legally worthless.

A right is a form of entitlement against the government that cannot be removed or substituted for absent good cause. No one has a right to have a contract executed according to its terms because the other side can always choose to pay monetary damages, either as stipulated by the contract or as ordered by a court of law, instead of executing their obligation.

So as far as airlines are concerned, passengers do not have a right to fly, before or after buying a ticket.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 24):
But the courts will presumably compel all firms to comply with the contracts that they enter into.

In practical terms, yes, in as much as the monetary damages are (hopefully) high enough to encourage firms to honor their contracts, but legally speaking, it is still a choice firms have: honor the contracts or pay damages. If they choose the latter and do pay the damages, the matter is closed; no court has the authority to force them to choose the former.
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:01 am

I believe that under UK law, an injunction can force compliance.
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:27 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 30):
I believe that under UK law, an injunction can force compliance

Precisely, and I'm pretty sure that the law is the same in the USA. While damages are the only remedy available at common law, the court can grant an equitable injunction to force performance.
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:56 am

I think this behavior is the result of the "It's All About ME" decade and the fact that a lot of people who have money (or think they do) demand special treatment.

Or some people just have a Type A personality and think that the only person in the world who understands how jobs should be performed are themselves. Nobody else counts.

Sometimes when you are at an airport and hear people carry on the way they do, doesn't it make you want to bitch slap the hell out of them?
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:43 am

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 22):
I agree that the right to air travel may not be specifically mentioned in the US Constitution but the Supreme Court has in several cases, including Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999), decided that travel is a fundamental right when it has determined that a citizen has the right to leave one state and enter another.

I am aware of this in particular... But this does not govern the mode of transport. All this is really saying is that anyone can travel, but they are on their own as far as the actual transportation. The only "true" travel right is your own two feet. I would love to list a few exapmles, HOWEVER, I do realize where you are coming from! I get it. But my main point is that passengers in the US (more by my observations) expect far more than the C.O.C. offers and expects lower prices/more services. The baffling thing for me is why these people are furious some to the point of having the police called when they do not get 5 star treatment or a first class upgrade, or exit row seating, or free bags. It honestly makes me think that people's brains just go on vacation once they hit airport property. The average "informed" passenger is not the issue... The main issue are people who book their travel on a 3rd party website, do not pay attention to any rules, regulations, timing, and in some cases even the airline they are flying on! I can't tell you how many times (actually between10-20) in the past few years I have seen people flipping out at a ticket counter because they didn't pay attention to what airline they are flying! They just assume because their destination is Chicago, they must be on AA or UA, and occasionally they are on WN. Or with the New York area (LGA, EWR, JFK) they usually have no clue. (that is passengers that do not travel often)

I hope this clarifies my point, I am not meaning to be derogatory, I am just confused as to why this seems more rampant in US airports.
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:01 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 33):
Or with the New York area (LGA, EWR, JFK) they usually have no clue

Last year I came across some people who were clearly lost at EWR. I went up to them and offered to help. They showed me their itinerary. It said that their flight departed from Terminal 8, and they couldn't find Terminal 8. I agreed that it said their flight departed from Terminal 8, but pointed out that it also said that it departed from JFK

  
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:25 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 34):
I agreed that it said their flight departed from Terminal 8, but pointed out that it also said that it departed from JFK

HA!!!!! I can do one better for you! Being in MCI, which is on the western edge of Missouri, there are mostly passengers from about 3 hours driving distance from the airport. I was checking in for a flight one day and a passenger a few kiosks down from me started yelling that it couldn't find him. I was waiting for baggage to be tagged when an airline representative went to help the man, and said somewhat loudly (I could hear it, and the man was very loud, I guess the agent had to talk over him) that he was in fact supposed to depart STL. If you don't know, that is on the eastern edge of the state, almost 5 hours driving time from MCI... How does that happen?!?!?!?!?
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:30 am

I think part of it is we have been spoiled in years past. Back in the day you got the free bags, you got a free meal, lines weren't so long, the service was more personal. But we also had expensive tickets and airlines that couldn't be a buck in the black. Now passengers get what they've always wanted, decent fairs, multiple flights a day, and flights to every little corner of the country.

On the other side of it though you have FF programs creating problems. All of a sudden you have anybody with an AMEX card who flies 3 times a year thinking they should be treated as royalty. Airlines in the US IMO give away too much to low level FF members. Should they reward frequent travelers? Absolutely. But they should reward those who are buying tickets, not just buying milk and gas with their CC. Yeah there are a lot of type A personalities who are top tier flying around, but there are far more lower tier flyers who expect to be treated like those top level guys.
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:33 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 35):
How does that happen

Wow. Was he a local originating passenger? I just can't imagine how you could make such a mistake! When you said MCI I thought that you were about to say something about him confusing Kansas City as being in, well, Kansas. But to be so wrong when you clearly knew you were in Missouri just boggles the mind!

At least these people had the slight excuse of the fact that they flew xxx-NYC-xxx and their first flight had arrived at EWR, so they assumed that they were departing from the same airport.
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:10 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 37):
Wow. Was he a local originating passenger? I just can't imagine how you could make such a mistake! When you said MCI I thought that you were about to say something about him confusing Kansas City as being in, well, Kansas. But to be so wrong when you clearly knew you were in Missouri just boggles the mind!

At least these people had the slight excuse of the fact that they flew xxx-NYC-xxx and their first flight had arrived at EWR, so they assumed that they were departing from the same airport.

From the little bit I gathered, someone bought the ticket for him. I guess he didn't bother to look at the paper he was carrying? And yes he was a local originating passenger... hahahahaha and the NYC area I can kind of understand, but seriously, you should always look.
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 am

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 38):
someone bought the ticket for him. I guess he didn't bother to look at the paper he was carrying?

Idiot.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 36):
On the other side of it though you have FF programs creating problems. All of a sudden you have anybody with an AMEX card who flies 3 times a year thinking they should be treated as royalty. Airlines in the US IMO give away too much to low level FF members

I agree with this. I might get flamed for raising it, but this is precisely what the infamous "over-entitled" comment was getting at. He wasn't deriding Global Services and 1K customers, but rather Silver members who flew only 25,000 miles per year and expected the same service as 1K customers who flew over 100,000 miles. When you make too many people feel special, you can't help but raising expectations to the point that you end up disappointing some people.

One thing I do blame airlines for is free First Class upgrades. It's gotten to the point that people expect to be upgraded. The airlines have gotten much better at selling F over the past couple of years, whether it be through discount P fairs or through revenue upgrades. I personally think that is a good thing, but it means that Mr HVC can't get the upgrade which he feels he is "entitled" to. Newsflash Mr HVC: If you want to ensure that you fly F then pay for it!!!
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:53 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
Newsflash Mr HVC: If you want to ensure that you fly F then pay for it!!!

AMEN!! And I think in the next few years US airlines will begin to restrict the free upgrades, maybe cutting out the Lowest level at first, or only giving a limited number a year then i do think in the long run, they may just go away all together! (I hope)
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:59 am

Quoting AirAfreak (Reply 28):
WOW! Seven years without air travel is very rare to hear on this forum! I cannot even imagine the look on your friend's face with so many changes within the airline industry! And to say anything negative about SQ is just wrong! It's like cooking a well-marbled wagyu steak to well-done... you just don't do it!

Yeap. His idea of commercial aviation seems to be right out of the 1970s!

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 40):
AMEN!! And I think in the next few years US airlines will begin to restrict the free upgrades, maybe cutting out the Lowest level at first, or only giving a limited number a year then i do think in the long run, they may just go away all together! (I hope)

Agreed. I think free upgrades is why many US carriers lag in Business and First. It drives down yields, therefore profitability and innovation. It also cheapens the product in the mind of the consumer as well.

Redeeming your miles for an upgrade is fine but not free upgrades
 
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:40 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
I agree with this. I might get flamed for raising it, but this is precisely what the infamous "over-entitled" comment was getting at. He wasn't deriding Global Services and 1K customers, but rather Silver members who flew only 25,000 miles per year and expected the same service as 1K customers who flew over 100,000 miles. When you make too many people feel special, you can't help but raising expectations to the point that you end up disappointing some people.

That's a good way to put it. I always laugh when people tout their Silver status. I was in ATL about a year ago with my folks and we missed our connection because our inbound flight was late. Well we went up to the desk to get situated and some lady comes up and tries to cut in front of us. She says "I'm Silver, I have priority!" I was shocked! Before I had time to come out with a smart response my stepdad says "Oh so we are playing that game? Well my card says Diamond Medallion on it, so I guess me and my family have priority on you?" He didn't do it to get the front. Just knock someone down a peg. I was proud to see some of my wise remarks have rubbed off on him .

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 39):
One thing I do blame airlines for is free First Class upgrades. It's gotten to the point that people expect to be upgraded.

It has gotten kind of out of control. But I do think for the highest tier it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sure they are the people who fly the most and would get the most upgrades. But with corporate travel departments cutting back it isn't a terrible thing to reward someone for flying with you.

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 40):
AMEN!! And I think in the next few years US airlines will begin to restrict the free upgrades, maybe cutting out the Lowest level at first, or only giving a limited number a year then i do think in the long run, they may just go away all together! (I hope)

I think it is going to be difficult to get rid of upgrades completely. The US carriers have really dug themselves into a hole. If say DL was the first to restrict it some people may hop to UA or vice versa. It sounds silly, but some of those business travelers are miles and upgrade junkies.
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:05 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 42):
She says "I'm Silver, I have priority!" I was shocked! Before I had time to come out with a smart response my stepdad says "Oh so we are playing that game? Well my card says Diamond Medallion on it, so I guess me and my family have priority on you?"


Ugh, I know those sorts of people.

I'm Silver with my FF program (QF) which basically gives me nothing, but similarly I don't really expect anything. That said, if benefits are on the table then I will take them. One is PriorityAAccess on AA, which among other things means that you get checked in by a real person rather than have to use a kiosk. Normally I don't have anything against kiosks, but for some reason I've always struggled with the AA ones, and therefore take them up on the offer to use the check-in desk. Well, at BOS last year the Red Coat who was guarding the PriorityAAccess line outright refused to let us into that line. The sign he was standing next to clearly showed that Oneworld Ruby FFs were allowed to use that line, and my FF card clearly had the Oneworld Ruby logo on it, but he was having none of it. In the end I decided it wasn't worth arguing about, and went to use the kiosk.

That said, I actually support my father in this one:

Several years ago he was Silver with Etihad. Upon boarding a flight it transpired that his seat had been assigned to someone else. He was already sitting down when she showed up, told him to move, and when he pointed out that he was sitting in his assigned seat she threw a massive tantrum. The sort of thing that a spoiled three year old brat does when they don't get their own way. Needless to say, an FA came over to see what the fuss was. It transpired that the only seat left open on the flight was a middle seat in the back row. Presumably to pacify the other women, the FA told my father to move. Unfortunately it was an order, rather than a request. This got his hackles up, and he told the FA that he was quite comfortable where he was, and wasn't prepared to move. The FA told him again, and so this went back and forth. In the end the FA went off to get the CSM who came up and (without talking to either passenger) said "Sir, you've got to move". My father responded "Does being Silver in your Frequent Flyer program not count for anything? If she is Gold, I'll move, otherwise she can have the middle seat". The CSM looked at him thoughtfully for half a second, and then told the women that she would have to take the other seat.
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:37 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 42):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 43):

In these situations, I applaud your step-father and father, respectively! Good for them!
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:01 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 42):
I think it is going to be difficult to get rid of upgrades completely.

I like how AA does it with their 500-mile upgrade stickers except for EXPs.
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RE: Why Are Passengers In The US So Needy?

Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:09 am

Silver whatever might as well be called Tin.....    These days, you can buy upper level FFP status on some airlines, as one can open an account with Delta Private Jets, put $50-100K into the account and get Diamond Medallion status which can be gifted to someone.

There is definitely a segment of the traveling public that try to use their FFP status as a sort of "Don't you know how I am?" sort of thing. You also get those that get huffy because of not being able to maintain a higher level because of changes to the program. There was an article a few weeks back in the AJC about the Porsche Cayennes that Delta has to transport selected upper level SkyMiles Medallions and there were people whining and complaining about it in the comments section, as supposedly some of them were Platinum or Diamond Medallions and had never been selected for the special service.

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