DeltaXNA
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Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:11 am

I would say San Diego. Awesome airport, probably not the most efficient.
 
finnishway
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:53 am

Well as far as I know there is not too much money to spend in California.
I don't know if any city needs a whole new airport. It is much cheaper to build a new terminal or runway. Building an airport takes many years and is not a solution for fast need.

I know someone may now say "there is no space for new runway in San Diego". Yes there is. If new runway could be build to Heathrow it could be build pretty much anywhere. They just need to make space for it.

I think taxpayers don't support much new airports nowadays so renovating old one is faster and much easier.

One option is demolishing airport that can't be expanded and use the land for other purposes. That airport could be moved to another airport that could be expanded.

[Edited 2013-12-07 03:56:19]
 
rfields5421
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:01 pm

At Heathrow you don't have to literally move mountains to make room for a new runway (or rather for a safe approach to a new runway), or fill in a bay..

San Diego could use a new airport, but it isn't essential. What they have does limit potential growth, and I'm not sure that is a bad thing.

Atlanta could use a new airport to provide competition - but that won't happen.

Chicago is getting a new airport with the ORD rebuild. It will take years, but when finished the capacity will be greatly improved.

Boston is crowded, limited parallel options, etc - but it seems to be working quite well for them.

DCA and LGA are probably the two airports in the US which really should be shut down and their traffic moved to another larger airport. But that will never happen at either location. Too much political power supports the two airports.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:15 pm

I wish JFK's multiple terminal design could be torn down and rebuilt with a single 21st century structure, but that will never happen since the Port Authority moves at such a slow, ineffective pace. Many of the terminals in ORD are dark and dreary, so the refurbishment will be welcome. ATL made a huge mistake by building a separate, little-used check-in area for the "international terminal", which ultimately does not even accommodate all of ATL's international flights. I think they need to rebuild every concourse, make them wider and roomier and then consider building a new central check-in area where Concourse C currently sits while transforming the T gates so that they can accommodate planes on either side once the ticket areas are demolished.
 
finnishway
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:25 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 2):
At Heathrow you don't have to literally move mountains to make room for a new runway

I think problems at Heathrow are bigger than that. Building is not the problem, but everything before building can start is.

I haven't been in San Diego, but I am right now watching satellite image of San Diego International Airport from Google Earth. I think there is space to lenghten the current runway or build new next to it. I know it means demolishing a lot of buildings, but that would be the case at Heathrow also. Why I compare this to Heathrow? Because that is probably the most followed new runway project in the world.

I don't see Atlanta as a place for two major airports. It is in the same category where new runway and terminals can be build.

Rebuilding ORD is an example of what will happen with other big airports as well. It takes many years and a lot of money, but building a new airport is usually not an option.

I think DCA and LGA are very interesting airports that can support businesses. I don't think they should be used for leisure flights. I would like to see flights from DCA and LGA to major cities in the USA and get rid of the perimeter rules and instead of it make a rule that forbids using widebody aircraft for example.
 
goosebayguy
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:38 pm

For me its LAX. Incredibly decrepit, short of space and I will never forget the queue to check in with Southwest. Queue began outside the terminal and took well over an hour to reach a desk then long queue through security. By far the worst airport experience I have ever had.New terminals desperately needed.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:19 pm

A new terminal or an entirely new airport?
 
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SFOA380
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:26 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 1):
Well as far as I know there is not too much money to spend in California.

California has gotten its act together and now has budget surpluses in the billions for the foreseeable future. Thanks to a booming economy and robust, high income job growth.

Agree that San Diego needs an airport. We need new runways at SFO but we all know that's never going to happen! Hopefully technology will fix our runway issue soon!
 
seatback
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:30 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 2):
San Diego could use a new airport, but it isn't essential. What they have does limit potential growth, and I'm not sure that is a bad thing.

A city the size of San Diego will need to address this issue in the next decade.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 2):
Atlanta could use a new airport to provide competition - but that won't happen.

I'm not sure about a completely new airport, but, as I've said in another thread, the terminals are awful (at least A,B, & T)

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 2):
Boston is crowded, limited parallel options, etc - but it seems to be working quite well for them.

What works well for them may not work well in the future. Cities/airports like SAN, LGA, PHL, LAX, BOS are going to have to think about the next generation of travel and prepare for it.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 3):
Many of the terminals in ORD are dark and dreary,

I agree, but they're is something that I love about O'Hare, especially the old concourses. Something very classic about them.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 3):
I think they need to rebuild every concourse, make them wider and roomier and then consider building a new central check-in area where Concourse C currently sits while transforming the T gates so that they can accommodate planes on either side once the ticket areas are demolished.

Agreed as stated above. Open up the roof, put some sky lights in, put in windows and get rid of the 1986 orange.

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 5):
For me its LAX. Incredibly decrepit, short of space and I will never forget the queue to check in with Southwest. Queue began outside the terminal and took well over an hour to reach a desk then long queue through security. By far the worst airport experience I have ever had.New terminals desperately needed.

I agree too. Long term, what do they do? I think it will take a complete demolishment of the north side terminals and the south side terminals, building a large modern terminal such as DTW.

BTW, DTW is a wonderful example of an airport that is ready for the future.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:38 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 6):
A new terminal or an entirely new airport?

SAN would be the one that needs a new airport, but I think SAN is ok with where they are right now (just don't let mirimar get swallowed up.

BOS is another airport that I could conceivably see as being relocated - due to its size, distance to the city and lack of room.

BUR is a airport that could conceivably be closed to airline ops.

LAX would be nice with a revamped terminal set, as much as people say it is an O&D airport, it still doesn't excuse the mess of terminals for O&D passengers. The traffic in the access roads is annoying, traffic in the alleyway is annoying. the terminals were built at the beginning of the jet age- and it would be nice if they were better laid out.

Same goes for JFK, if they PA could get the backbone to build a legitimate master plan for the terminal structure. JFk could be a lot more efficient.
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MIflyer12
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:42 pm

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 5):

For me its LAX. Incredibly decrepit, short of space and I will never forget the queue to check in with Southwest. Queue began outside the terminal and took well over an hour to reach a desk then long queue through security. By far the worst airport experience I have ever had.New terminals desperately needed.

That's a criticism of one of eight terminals at LAX, and it justifies a new airport? It must be nice to talk about spending $30 billion (or more) of Other People's Money.

As for quality of terminals at U.S. airports, ambitious plans to give passengers good services generally meet robust opposition from the carriers who will pay lease costs or airport fees (WN at SEA is a good example but not the only one).

http://seattletimes.com/html/busines...nology/2002402074_southwest26.html

Passengers generally get the quality of services that carriers want to pay for.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 4):
I think there is space to lenghten the current runway or build new next to it.

There are plenty of options about where to put a parallel runway, or extend the current one.

That isn't the problem.

Right now SAN can be weather restricted because terrain issues prevent an ILS every being built for landing on Rwy 27 - approaching over the city and mountains.

A new runway won't solve that. The new runway would also have 20% of its length unavailable for landing.

Rwy 9 does have an ILS, but as a sea coast city - that is sometimes not an option to use due to winds.

Only a runway location away from the terrain issues will bring fully capable in SAN.

Miramar is an option which likely isn't going to happen.

A better option would be to take over NAS North Island - but that isn't going to happen either.
 
iyerhari
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:58 pm

I would say Boston for sure- Logan cannot be expanded much and may soon need another airport.
 
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:07 pm

If you believe the state of Illinois (which you shouldn't with all the corruption here) the south suburbs of Chicago need a new airport.

http://www.southsuburbanairport.com

The only reason I could see this working is if it's a primarily freight airport because there are plans for the Illiana expressway that will be used to keep semi traffic off of I-80 between I-65 and I-57. There's also talk of connecting two rail lines there with a rail connection which could also make it more appealing to freight carriers.
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:22 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 8):
Cities/airports like SAN, LGA, PHL, LAX, BOS are going to have to think about the next generation of travel and prepare for it.

The main thought process in BOS is about who's palm gets greased and who's cousin gets a no-show job.

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 12):
I would say Boston for sure- Logan cannot be expanded much and may soon need another airport.

I doubt it. BOS is never going to be a hub due to geography. Recent history shows the names on the gates change but the overall traffic remains manageable. If things get too busy, there are good outlets i.e. MHT, PVD, etc.
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compensateme
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 3):
I wish JFK's multiple terminal design could be torn down and rebuilt with a single 21st century structure, but that will never happen since the Port Authority moves at such a slow, ineffective pace. Many of the terminals in ORD are dark and dreary, so the refurbishment will be welcome. ATL made a huge mistake by building a separate, little-used check-in area for the "international terminal", which ultimately does not even accommodate all of ATL's international flights. I think they need to rebuild every concourse, make them wider and roomier and then consider building a new central check-in area where Concourse C currently sits while transforming the T gates so that they can accommodate planes on either side once the ticket areas are demolished.

I ponder if these airports should get together next year and buy new terminals on a Black Friday "Buy 1, Get 1 Free" sale.
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 12):

I would say Boston for sure- Logan cannot be expanded much and may soon need another airport.

Logan may not have the ability to expand much, but the question I have is why would they need to? Once AA consolidates with US, and the underutilization of terminal A leads me to conclude that there is sufficient gate space.

I think PHL has the greatest need. While LGA is crowded and also badly in need of a new facilty, the city of NYC has three choices. PHL has only one airport and it's runway configuration leads to frequent delays during peak hours. The merger with AA certainly won't help matters.
 
finnishway
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:42 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 11):
Miramar is an option which likely isn't going to happen.

A better option would be to take over NAS North Island - but that isn't going to happen either.

Can you tell why?
 
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:03 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 4):
I don't see Atlanta as a place for two major airports. It is in the same category where new runway and terminals can be build.

Not sure where you are getting this? ATL built a fifth runway that straddles the interstate, new International terminal and expanded the old terminal about as far as it will go. Atlanta, especially the northern suburbs, could use and I believe support a second airport. In fact, there is a strong movement for a commercial airport in NW Atlanta (Paulding County) that seems to have some traction.

http://www.flysilvercomet.com/index.html

Besides Atlanta, Seattle could really use a new airport in my opinion, especially with things heating up there between DL and AS. After that I could see perhaps PHL. A bit off topic but I do think we could see some major airport expansions and building south of the border in Mexico over the next 20-40 years as Mexico's air travel increases on a faster scale and out dated airports like GDL, TAM and such wont suffice with ever expanding air service from Interjet, Volaris and more airlines.
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ckfred
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:28 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 3):
Many of the terminals in ORD are dark and dreary, so the refurbishment will be welcome. ATL made a huge mistake by building a separate, little-used check-in area for the "international terminal", which ultimately does not even accommodate all of ATL's international flights. I think they need to rebuild every concourse, make them wider and roomier and then consider building a new central check-in area where Concourse C currently sits while transforming the T gates so that they can accommodate planes on either side once the ticket areas are demolished.

The only dreary terminal at ORD is T2, since no one airline "controls" it and can renovate it. T1 certainly isn't dark and dreary. T3 isn't so much dark and dreary as just a bit worn out, because AA has been so stingy with capital spending since 9/11. I would expect in the next 12 months for AA to spend some money on T3, as the rebranding effort goes into full swing.

As for ATL, if you were to widen the councourses, then you narrow the alleys. I believe that 2 747-400s can taxi down the alley, while aircraft are parked on either side.

If you were to turn C into the central check-in, then how would you get ground traffic and MARTA to the terminal? Yes, I've heard at peak times, the new international terminal can be overwhelmed, but remember that far more international flyers are connecting at ATL, when compared to other international gateways like JFK, IAD, LAX, and ORD. The reason why the new termainal was built is that if you were final destination at ATL, you had to recheck your bags after clearing Customs and reclaim them on a carousel in the terminal. If every internaitonal passenger carried his checked bags onto the train, it would be packed before it got to Concourse B.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 17):
Can you tell why?

The Navy and Marine Corps are BIG BUSINESS in San Diego. Employing over 27,000 people in addition to sailors and marines stationed on ships and bases in the area.

That doesn't count the nearly 150% of that number in private industry who support the military as contractors and suppliers.

MCAS Miramar is a part of that economic driver for the city.

NAS North Island is also a key economic driver - however, more importantly it is the home port for two aircraft carriers.

Miramar might be downsized again as it was when the F-14 left the Navy inventory. However, there seems to be a great divide in what I can make out about local politics - many of the influential people not wanting the 'downtown' airport moved out to the county. Even though it is only 10 miles straight line distance, probably an extra half hour to drive.

In my opinion, if the city leadership commitment was there, the Navy would have to allow a second two mile long parallel runway to be built, and an opposite side civilian ramp / terminal area. There are expensive environmental cleanup issues, but the money could be found to make the airport workable. The key is the city leadership and people are not ready to commit to Miramar.

North Island would fit better with the desire to keep the airport downtown, the change of runway alignment from 9/27 at SAN to newly built parallel 11/29 at North Island would avoid most of the terrain issues. It wouldn't make the home owners in Point Loma happy, but that can be over come. The big problem is that taking much of North Island would mean moving a lot of Navy people, jobs and civilian jobs out of the San Diego area - likely to San Francisco. It would also cost billions for the Navy to go back into Alameda and possibly Hunters Point and rebuild the infrastructure what was abandoned and sold with the preference for San Diego.
 
alexinwa
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:51 pm

I would say SEA is at the top of this list. One of the smallest major airports in the country and due to it's location and the hill it's built on, no more room to expand.
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finnishway
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:56 pm

So there seem to be big problems in San Diego.

Is there other airport or a lot of free space somewhere near San Diego, where armed forces or mountains aren't a problem?
 
srbmod
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:10 pm

There will be a second commercial airport in Atlanta, it's just that none of the major airlines will be likely to serve it (The plans over at Paulding County's airport have hit a few speed bumps, but things look to be happening and are likely to have commercial service by this time next year, presumably from G4.). Delta has long opposed a second airport (and AirTran has also been in agreement on that), as they don't want to be forced to have to use it (They know that there would be customers demanding they offer flights there.). Part of the reason why the current facility exists as it does is because Delta and Eastern said that they would not serve a second airport and nobody could agree on the location of it (One site was on the northside of town near Roswell and Alpharetta [where they ended up building North Point Mall] and the other was south of ATL near McDonough and Locust Grove.). Midfield was a compromise (although not all of the airlines that operated at ATL at the time liked it) and in the end, was probably the best solution, as a new facility would have been built regardless as the terminal that opened in the early 60s was stretched to its' limits and DL and EA were busing passengers to remote stands. Opening a second airport would have been unlikely to reduce the passenger numbers at ATL, as airlines were unlikely to split their operations there.

There is room for an additional passenger terminal on the southside of the airport and such a project is likely to be part of the updated ATL Masterplan. Delta has even proposed a gate complex where their hangars and cargo buildings currently sit (with their hangars and cargo buildings relocated elsewhere at ATL. Even a sixth runway has been proposed as part of the airport's future plans (May be built on the northside of the airport, which is where the fifth runway was originally proposed.).
 
iyerhari
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:22 pm

I agree with many comments that BOS may not be a hub but it's still going to be a critical O&D destination that fits with the profile of most businesses thanks to world-class universities and associated industries and that's only going to increase substantially. It just compliments most international airlines which is why we are finding it's getting so many of them nowadays which the US airlines have long ignored the city. Terminal E would badly need an expansion and there's really no space to expand. IN any case, I'd prefer to fly Lufthansa or Emirates than flying Delta or US Airways.
 
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:23 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 2):
DCA and LGA are probably the two airports in the US which really should be shut down and their traffic moved to another larger airport. But that will never happen at either location. Too much political power supports the two airports.

I see no reason why they would need to be shut down. Both are great locations and DCA is a nice modern airport. DCA is in such a fantastic location too. Sure they can't expand anymore. Who cares. Keep them how they are.
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compensateme
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 18):
Not sure where you are getting this? ATL built a fifth runway that straddles the interstate, new International terminal and expanded the old terminal about as far as it will go. Atlanta, especially the northern suburbs, could use and I believe support a second airport. In fact, there is a strong movement for a commercial airport in NW Atlanta (Paulding County) that seems to have some traction.

Besides Atlanta, Seattle could really use a new airport in my opinion, especially with things heating up there between DL and AS. After that I could see perhaps PHL. A bit off topic but I do think we could see some major airport expansions and building south of the border in Mexico over the next 20-40 years as Mexico's air travel increases on a faster scale and out dated airports like GDL, TAM and such wont suffice with ever expanding air service from Interjet, Volaris and more airlines.

Similar arguments to your (and others) postings in this thread were made 15 years ago for St. Louis, ultimately resuling in MidAmerica Airport.

The problem with Atlanta (and now Seattle) is that the overwhelming majority of traffic is merely connecting through the airport -- and ATL has thrived off industry consolidation. For example, prior to its acquisition of NW, DL struggled to maintain service levels on regional jets (often cancelling service) to so-called Heartland markets. Today, many of these markets are served with midsized jets. But these passengers aren't traveling to Atlanta, and often not to places in which transiting via ATL is convenient (hence the initial struggles). Instead, they're price-sensitive travelers taking advantage of fares made possible by the lower-costs of midsize equipment. And the model has proven financially successful for DL. However, if fares drop or don't pace with costs, suddenly transiting passengers BWI-ATL-SEA (as opposed to via DTW/MSP) becomes a lot less attractive. Especially if DL's in position of paying for billions of dollars in construction costs, when ample capacity exists elsewhere.

Long term, SEA's simply not large enough a market to support dual hubs, especially given its geographic limitations. Nor do we, or SEA, know if DL's plans have proven to be financially successful. Spending billions to accomodate such would be foolhardy.
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RayChuang
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:32 pm

The New York City area does NOT need a new airport--they need a total rebuild of the terminal buildings at JFK and (maybe) EWR. That would certainly help make going the airport a much more pleasant experience.
 
flyinggoat
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:32 pm

LAX needs to demolish all the terminals and start from scratch. I don't mind the actual layout of the terminals, but connecting is a pain, and the traffic layout is terrible. The buses need to be on their own level, but perhaps the new consolidated rental car facility will help this (if built).

The new TBIT is really nice, but LAX is no where near as great as ICN, HKG, or SIN. I'd love to see it build up as a world class airport.

I'm not a fan of HOU either.
 
finnishway
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:37 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 27):
New York City area does NOT need a new airport--they need a total rebuild of the terminal buildings at JFK

Isn't that what they are doing?

Delta has just renovated terminal 4, demolished terminal 3 and is expanding there.

Jetblue has new terminal 5.

American has good enough terminal 8.

Terminal 2 will be closed.

I don't know the situation of terminal 1 and terminal 7.

If you mean you would like to see all airlines in the same terminal then you can keep dreaming.
 
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 16):
I think PHL has the greatest need. While LGA is crowded and also badly in need of a new facilty, the city of NYC has three choices. PHL has only one airport and it's runway configuration leads to frequent delays during peak hours. The merger with AA certainly won't help matters.

Good point. PHL is the main airport for a large area, and has quite good mass transport links, so investment seems warranted. I guess I'd wait a bit to see what the merged AA/US ends up doing. I know they've said good things about PHL but some times words and actions don't line up.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 20):
However, there seems to be a great divide in what I can make out about local politics - many of the influential people not wanting the 'downtown' airport moved out to the county. Even though it is only 10 miles straight line distance, probably an extra half hour to drive.

From what I've read, it's more about NIMBYs in the flight paths around Mirimar not wanting that steady drum beat of commercial traffic. It's what forced the fast jets out of Mirimar, and it's what will keep the current SAN in place for the foreseeable future.

North Island is good because it allows for most of the approach to be over water, but I can't see the sense in funneling road traffic out to North Island, nor do I see the wealthy locals tolerating it. If anything, you want to pull traffic away from the crowded harbor/downtown areas. That would make Mirimar a more sensible choice, but, see above...

I spent a few days in SD a few months ago and it was amazing to see the parade of jets shoot through the canyons then go over Balboa Park and let down over the city. I have a hard time thinking of any other US city that has its main airport in such a tight spot. Places like BOS or LGA or DCA at least allow for most of the approach to be over water. It did make for some fun spotting at Balboa Park, with a nice Blackbird right behind me as I did so!  

Sad to say, the only thing I can see changing the status quo in SD would be some sort of very ugly CFIT incident with a large casualty count.
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cle757
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:48 pm

CLE!..tear it all down, and rebuild it!
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 3):
I wish JFK's multiple terminal design could be torn down and rebuilt with a single 21st century structure, but that will never happen since the Port Authority moves at such a slow, ineffective pace.

As much as I agree with your sentiments that the Port is a horrible, ineffiencent, corrupt and incompetent organization with little foresight, they actually did have a plan to tear down JFK's multiple terminals and put everything under one roof. It was called JFK 2000. And if anyone knows where I can find links, etc. of this, let me know! The problem was that the airlines were against it since they didn't want their passengers potentially transferring flights with another airline. This would be harder if they had to shuttle between multiple terminals. So, they refused to pay for it. I think their plans to expand some of the terminals is working fine at the moment. JFK doesn't really have any gate issues, although DL will probably have to figure out what to do if pax are transferring between T4 and T2. Not sure that the bus will cut it in the long term.

I would say Philadelphia needs a new airport. PHL is a dump and the runway configuration sucks and can't handle the flights there now. Even if they add a new runway in that location, it would be too close to the others to really make things better. Build something in another location.

SFO is another candidate. The terminal is nice, but the runway configuration is horrible. I doubt anything will be done to improve that.

Boston needs another airport. BOS's runway configuration is bad as well, but there hasn't been a whole lot of growth there the last few years, so it seems fine for that they have.

And I would close LGA and I say that as a local who lives close to there. The main terminal is horrible and it impacts JFK's operations in a negative way. JFK could handle so many more flights if LGA wasn't there.

And speaking of JFK, since LGA isn't going anywhere, I would build another 13/31 runway above 13L/31R in that North cargo area that has little to no activity. That would increase throughput without having to change the airspace much.
 
AirbusGeek
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:39 pm

I know it is not a completely new airport, but CLT needs a new international terminal. Concourse D is so small and a A330 takes up 2 gates, so much so many international flights now dock at concourse B. CLT needs a dedicated international terminal, not only for the heavies to Europe and South America, but for the A32X to Canada and Caribbean and other international airlines.
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ORDJOE
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:44 pm

I am not too keen on the MCO airport. The terminal WN and B6 is fine, but the others are not that good. LGA needs a bit of a make over (at least when I was there 2 years ago, I always seem to fly into EWR now)
JFK- agreeed make it that megaterminal for connections, perhaps mimic HKG's layout.

As for ORD, granted it is my hometown airport, but I do not understand why everyone thinks it is dreary. It is not the newest, but total upgrade, I would think it still has some years on it.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 24):
I agree with many comments that BOS may not be a hub but it's still going to be a critical O&D destination that fits with the profile of most businesses thanks to world-class universities and associated industries and that's only going to increase substantially.

Not sure what basis you have for 'increase substantially'. I have been in the area since 1990 and back then there was a lot more growth in the 128/495 belt. Zillions of startups, housing being built like crazy. There is nowhere near the growth opportunity in the region as there was back then. Much of the land is built out. Many of the sites that were emptied in the early 2000s are now being reused, but I don''t see anything like the dynamic growth of the 90s. Much of the new development seems to be more retail, sigh. How long do we think we can get by selling shmata to each other? Universities are pricing themselves out of a future. If there is to be growth in the area, I think it'll be further away from BOS and closer to other catchments such as MHT and PVD because the 128/495 belt is built out.

BOS as is now is underutilized and industry consolidation will keep it in that state for a long time. Sure, bad WX puts it into bad situation, but that only happens a couple times a year. at most We end up with cancelled flights and incoming A/C diverting elsewhere, but in 2-3 days it's all back to normal. No real reason to spend $billions to build a similar airport elsewhere.
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:04 pm

A second airport for Atlanta will be nothing more than a niche airport. Silver Comet isn't looking at competing head on with ATL and is looking to only have one airline service the airport with a limited number of flights a week. When Propeller (who will run Silver Comet) was trying to do this at LZU, they were a bit more ambitious, but this was before WN came into ATL and they likely had their hopes set on them at LZU.
 
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lugie
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting finnishway (Reply 4):
I think DCA and LGA are very interesting airports that can support businesses. I don't think they should be used for leisure flights. I would like to see flights from DCA and LGA to major cities in the USA and get rid of the perimeter rules and instead of it make a rule that forbids using widebody aircraft for example.

Are there any widebody operations at either of them? I know LGA has 757s to ATL and FLL (I think so) and that is already pretty much of an aircraft for that airport but I wouldn't know about airlines sending widebodies to on of those airports (enlighten me if there is actually one).

But yes, I agree with you on the vacation and leisure flight issue, I think LGA and DCA should be used to provide quick and affordable link from major cities throughout the US and smaller destinations in surrounding states to an airport located centrally in the metro area. For vacation there should be IAD and BWI in the DC area and EWR, JFK, maybe even HPN and ISP in the NYC metro area
DH4 E75 E90 CR9 CRK M88 319 320 321 332 333 359 733 73G 738 739 748 764 772 788
X3 LH 4U TP US SN EI FR IB LX LA CM UA DL AA AS WN
FRA STR HAM TXL MUC ZRH ACE BRU BLL DUB MAN ARN MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT EWR ORD ATL SFO MDW SJO PTY
 
adtall
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:22 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 3):

So you'd tear down one of the most efficient airports in the US? Yes, some of the concourses are narrow (D especially), but to put a check-in area where C is would require a) tunneling under two runways, b) losing gates (double-siding T does not make up for losing all of C, and possibly half of B and D), and c) losing direct MARTA and the rental car train (to say nothing of all the parking and road infrastructure on the west side of the airport). The entire airport would have to be scrapped and rebuilt from scratch. The orange could go though, no doubt. Also with concourse E and its FIS is right next door and since the two are connected, it's one big int'l terminal anyways and F doesn't need to accommodate all the int'l flights. The check-in area could be bigger maybe (not convinced it does except around the late Europe/South America push), but otherwise the only thing wrong is the long walk from E-1 to F if you're a local arriving int'l passenger.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 19):

     

The ramps between T, A, B, C, and D cannot accommodate two 747s side by side though, at least between T, A, and B (and likely between B, C, and D) only cat IV planes can go side by side. Between D, E, and F they can accommodate two cat Vs side by side.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 23):

  

Plus the Paulding county site isn't much closer to that much of the metro area besides Paulding, Douglas, and west Cobb.
 
777STL
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:25 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 31):
CLE!..tear it all down, and rebuild it!

STL too. It's old and underutilized, half the damn airport is empty. Unfortunately, the way it's been constructed over the years, it would be hard to effectively renovate. B and D are empty, but since D fronts the southside of the airport and connects to Southwest's newer E terminal, it doesn't make much sense to eliminate it. Perhaps eliminate B, C and A and build a newer, lengthened D terminal that still connects to E. Logistically, I can't even begin to dream how they'd do this though.
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CairnterriAIR
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:21 am

I'm going to go the smaller route by saying that New Haven CT could use a new airport. There is significant demand for expanded air service along the Connecticut shore, however the runway length at HVN severely limits the size of what can be flown out of there.
 
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:50 am

L-A-G-U-A-R-D-I-A

Delta is doing some construction on their part and I give them credit but the rest of the airport needs that renovation project FAST
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hufftheweevil
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RE: Which US Cities Need A New Airport The Most?

Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:53 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 30):
Quoting EricR (Reply 16):
I think PHL has the greatest need. While LGA is crowded and also badly in need of a new facilty, the city of NYC has three choices. PHL has only one airport and it's runway configuration leads to frequent delays during peak hours. The merger with AA certainly won't help matters.

Good point. PHL is the main airport for a large area, and has quite good mass transport links, so investment seems warranted. I guess I'd wait a bit to see what the merged AA/US ends up doing. I know they've said good things about PHL but some times words and actions don't line up.

I agree that PHL has some very old terminals and the runway/taxiway layout is simply inefficient at high capacities. It is a shame, though, that Terminal A-West and Terminal F are both very new, and so is some of D and E. I think that fact, alone, would stop any major re-vamping of PHL. That, and the fact that there is really no room left here. A proposal was already made (a few years ago) for another runway, but that plan has since been scrapped (or at least put on indefinite hold).
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