KBJCpilot
Topic Author
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UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To Me"

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:11 am

I fly UA 10-15 times a year and for the most part things are s-l-o-w-l-y coming together. I've had experiences in First, Business, Econ +, and Economy and have seen the UA and CO people in action.

This past week I flew a 752 from DEN-LAX and then a 738 from LAX-DEN a few days later. On the flight to LAX the pilot had Channel 9 on for the boarding, taxi, and climb out but once we passed FL100 he turned it off and it stayed off the rest of the flight. When we landed I waited for the plane to empty as I was not in a hurry to make a connection and happened to see the pilot standing in the FC cabin watching the passengers deplane. I mentioned that I missed hearing Channel 9 for the entire flight and he shrugged his shoulders and replied, "That sounds like a first-world problem to me." I looked at him and wanted to reply but he said, "Better move along now." And he turned around and walked back toward the cockpit.

I couldn't believe what I had heard. The FA at the door smiled and thanked me for flying and I walked off the aircraft shaking my head.

I've flown UA over a hundred times and have never experienced something quite like that before.

I thought about writing to someone in UA but figured that if I mentioned it on here someone may see it and I could stay anonymous. Has anyone else experienced something like this?
Samsonite, I was way off!
 
PITrules
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:28 am

Why worry about staying anonymous if you give them your business 10-15 times a year?

The Captain has the right to turn off Ch 9.

You have the right to complain about the service you (didn't) receive, and the manner in which you didn't receive it (sound's like the Captain was an ass in explaining his right to turn off Ch. 9).
FLYi
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:35 am

Quoting KBJCpilot (Thread starter):
I thought about writing to someone in UA but figured that if I mentioned it on here someone may see it and I could stay anonymous. Has anyone else experienced something like this?

Would you mind sending me the flight/pilot info in a private message? We are trying really hard to turn things around at UA and this is not what we had in mind.

Thanks.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:41 am

You should report this to UA (or to BEG2IAH - seems like they can help). I've experienced a few pilots like him before. He might be better off flying cargo since he can't remember that passengers butter his bread.
 
ikramerica
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:42 am

Quoting KBJCpilot (Thread starter):
"That sounds like a first-world problem to me."

Wonder how he would like that response from management when the pilot's union demands more pay or shorter hours or whatever else...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
UA444
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:37 am

He had every right to turn off Ch.9, and it's quite possible he could've been joking with the "first world problem" comment.
 
Max Q
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:46 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 5):
He had every right to turn off Ch.9, and it's quite possible he could've been joking with the "first world problem" comment.

I couldn't agree more. It's not your 'right' to listen in to radio conversations and I hope we drop the whole program.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:05 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
It's not your 'right' to listen in to radio conversations

Perhaps not. But it is a service that (some) passengers paid for. Isn't it my right to get what I paid for?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mmo
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:49 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
But it is a service that (some) passengers paid for.

Sorry, but I am on the side of the pilot on this one. Perhaps you could explain how you feel it is "a service that some passengers paid for". Last time I checked, Channel 9 was not include in the "contract of carriage". That is the legally binding contract of just what you pay for. It's not for things like meals, IFE or channel 9. Could it have been handled better, perhaps, but it's up to the Captain to decide if channel 9 is on or off.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
cedarjet
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:01 pm

Some pilots turn Channel 9 off and that's disappointing but fine, whatever - but in this case as is often the case at UAL, it's the staggering rudeness and aggression from employees that passengers have to put up with. I know you read this line a lot on reviews at Skytrax and usually about trivial stuff, but after my last few trips on UAL, I will never fly that airline again. I don't deserve to be treated like that and I won't be.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 5):
He had every right to turn off Ch.9, and it's quite possible he could've been joking with the "first world problem" comment.
Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
I couldn't agree more. It's not your 'right' to listen in to radio conversations and I hope we drop the whole program.
Quoting mmo (Reply 8):
Sorry, but I am on the side of the pilot on this one. Perhaps you could explain how you feel it is "a service that some passengers paid for". Last time I checked, Channel 9 was not include in the "contract of carriage".

Not sure we are reading the same OT. This is not about availability of Channel 9. It's about how the pilot treated his customer.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
mmo
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:17 pm

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 10):
Quoting UA444 (Reply 5):He had every right to turn off Ch.9, and it's quite possible he could've been joking with the "first world problem" comment. Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):I couldn't agree more. It's not your 'right' to listen in to radio conversations and I hope we drop the whole program.Quoting mmo (Reply 8):Sorry, but I am on the side of the pilot on this one. Perhaps you could explain how you feel it is "a service that some passengers paid for". Last time I checked, Channel 9 was not include in the "contract of carriage".
Not sure we are reading the same OT. This is not about availability of Channel 9. It's about how the pilot treated his customer.

I suggest the next time you quote my reply, you might want to quote the relevant parts also.

Quoting mmo (Reply 8):
Could it have been handled better, perhaps, but it's up to the Captain to decide if channel 9 is on or off.

This is the part you left out. As I said, could it have been handled better, perhaps, but at the end of the day it's up to the Captain. If management wanted it on, it would be hard wired and not selectable.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 9):
I don't deserve to be treated like that and I won't be.

I wasn't there, but as I wrote previously, could it have been handled better, perhaps. But, never having flown for UAL, I can say there are sometimes as a crew you just can't win. I remember once having someone complain because we were early!!! Go figure that one out. You just can't win.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
lpdal
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:25 pm

I've had one flight crew out of five United First Class legs that actually enabled Channel 9--United 452, IAD-FLL (route now terminated), on May 3rd, 2012. Once we reached cruise altitude the captain announced that we would have a stunning view of the sunset that coated the eastern seaboard, and ended his message by telling us that he had turned on C9 and our callsign was UA 452. The icing on the cake was that 6B, the aisle seat in the last row of the first class cabin, was taken by a deadheading PMCO 772 captain! Much better than any ad-filled seatback TV monitor, at least for an enthusiast like me!  
Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):

I couldn't agree more. It's not your 'right' to listen in to radio conversations and I hope we drop the whole program.

Of course it isn't a legal right but promising a service to customers and not providing it can lead to some pretty nasty litigations. Also, I wouldn't consider any of these conservations with ATC to be "confidential" as even a simple radio can be tuned to any ATC frequency.

Quoting KBJCpilot (Thread starter):
I mentioned that I missed hearing Channel 9 for the entire flight and he shrugged his shoulders and replied, "That sounds like a first-world problem to me." I looked at him and wanted to reply but he said, "Better move along now." And he turned around and walked back toward the cockpit.

Of course that was a rude remark--but certainly not exclusive to UA. It's a trend across the service industry.

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
AR385
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:25 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 5):
He had every right to turn off Ch.9,

Sure he does.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 5):
and it's quite possible he could've been joking with the "first world problem" comment.

He wasn´t joking. Read the OT again. He was being an ass, as many UA crewmembers seem to be behaving these days. It seems they are doing it on purpose to piss off customers and give headaches to management.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
I couldn't agree more. It's not your 'right' to listen in to radio conversations and I hope we drop the whole program.

Then do away with the whole thing.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:27 pm

Quoting mmo (Reply 8):
Last time I checked, Channel 9 was not include in the "contract of carriage". That is the legally binding contract of just what you pay for. It's not for things like meals,

I'm not sure what contract law has to do with anything. Shouldn't customers expect to receive the advertised service regardless of whether those items appear in the contract of carriage?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:52 pm

Quoting mmo (Reply 11):
I suggest the next time you quote my reply, you might want to quote the relevant parts also.

Sorry I missed this part. The rest of my message still applies.  
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
AR385
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:57 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
I'm not sure what contract law has to do with anything. Shouldn't customers expect to receive the advertised service regardless of whether those items appear in the contract of carriage?

Apparently, certain members here that are fan boys of the airlines (which can of course do no wrong) when something is questioned about a service not provided but advertised or some other situation THE CONTRACT OF CARRIAGE is brought up.
 
mmo
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:32 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
I'm not sure what contract law has to do with anything. Shouldn't customers expect to receive the advertised service regardless of whether those items appear in the contract of carriage?

My point is the contract of carriage is what applies. Maybe I am being a little slow but show me where there is any promise of having uninterrupted CH9 availability on ALL UA flights? There isn't one. You can moan and complain but the airline satisfied the contractual obligations of the ticket purchase.

I would also point out that when it comes to advertised services, you always MUST check the fine print.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 16):
Apparently, certain members here that are fan boys of the airlines (which can of course do no wrong) when something is questioned about a service not provided but advertised or some other situation THE CONTRACT OF CARRIAGE is brought up.

It's really quite simple, the contract of carriage specifies what the airline's contractual obligation is to you. If the airline chose to serve Krug rather than Dom, what would you do then?

As to your implication that I am a fan of "the airline", I suggest you go back and re-read my original response. I never intimated, stated or otherwise inferred I was a fan of UAL. What I do object to, after 35 years of commercial aviation, is trying to please everyone over everything. I have two years to go till retirement and I can't wait.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
AR385
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:38 pm

Quoting mmo (Reply 17):
What I do object to, after 35 years of commercial aviation, is trying to please everyone over everything. I have two years to go till retirement and I can't wait.

I rest my case.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:02 pm

Quoting mmo (Reply 17):
My point is the contract of carriage is what applies.

"Applies" to what? Good customer service?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dc9northwest
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:42 pm

You haven't paid for good customer service. That's what UA's competition is for...  
 
mmo
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:50 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 18):
I rest my case.

And what case is that? Do you believe everything that is advertised? Please point out where CH9 is guaranteed in any type of advertisement, sales brochure or other printed media!

If you want personalized service with a ringside seat, I suggest fractional ownership.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
AR385
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:02 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 16):
Apparently, certain members here that are fan boys of the airlines (which can of course do no wrong) when something is questioned about a service not provided but advertised or some other situation THE CONTRACT OF CARRIAGE is brought up.

I wrote the above. You replied with the below:

Quoting mmo (Reply 17):
What I do object to, after 35 years of commercial aviation, is trying to please everyone over everything. I have two years to go till retirement and I can't wait.
Quoting mmo (Reply 21):
And what case is that?

That´s the case I rest. Certain crew members, wether you are or not, have that attitude. If you are a crew member, and can´t wait to retire, I hope I never have a flight with you. And no matter how many of your peers hide behind the contract of carriage crap, the airlines must know when they screw up, because even though

Quoting mmo (Reply 17):
You can moan and complain but the airline satisfied the contractual obligations of the ticket purchase.

some form of compensation is usually given, be it miles, passes for a flight etc. Specially when you spat over $16,000 for an F ticket longhaul. And that type of compensation is given for many things not mentioned in the precious contract of carriage. I´m not sure if it would be for being served "Krug over Dom" but it is offered for many other things

Quoting mmo (Reply 17):
It's really quite simple, the contract of carriage specifies what the airline's contractual obligation is to you. If the airline chose to serve Krug rather than Dom, what would you do then?

So no, I´m afraid it is not that quite simple. As for channel 9, if the Captain wants to shut it down, so be it. But it does not give him a right to be an ass.
 
mmo
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:53 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 22):
So no, I´m afraid it is not that quite simple. As for channel 9, if the Captain wants to shut it down, so be it. But it does not give him a right to be an ass.

I would suggest you re-read my comments. I never defended or supported the response of the Captain. I don't know where you got that. I think you are trying to link the lack of CH9 and the attitude while I have separated the two events. Despite what you think, I know who butters my bread and I have been around long enough to know how to play the game. And, to be honest, that's all it is.


Quoting AR385 (Reply 22):
That´s the case I rest. Certain crew members, wether you are or not, have that attitude. If you are a crew member, and can´t wait to retire, I hope I never have a flight with you. And no matter how many of your peers hide behind the contract of carriage crap, the airlines must know when they screw up, because even though

Your comments strike me as the comments from a customer who no matter what someone does, it will never be enough. I truly hope I never have you on any of my flights!!! I would be willing to bet you're probably the type of passenger who gets upset if your seat is changed to accommodate another passenger. After all it is "YOUR" seat.

Anyhow, like I wrote previously, I will not support or condemn the crewmembers actions. I wasn't there and there are always two sides to every story. What I will do is support the decision to turn off CH9. If the management wanted it on all the time, change the SOP. Otherwise it's up to the crew.

I hope this clarifies my position, obviously my other postings have not cleared it up for you.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:37 am

I'm not sure why this is even been discussed, UA make it clear that Ch9 is only available at the pilots discretion.

The pilots sounds like an asshole, I won't deny you that, and a simple "I prefer not having it activated" would have been more appropriate than the "first world problem" comment, but if you were to write to United you would get a curt one line response saying that the pilot can do whatever he likes with Ch9.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:54 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 24):
but if you were to write to United you would get a curt one line response saying that the pilot can do whatever he likes with Ch9.

He wouldn't, trust me. UA is transforming from a transportation company to a service company and this pilot would have to explain his actions. There is a lot of focus and accountability around customer service we provide every day. Contrary to a typical opinion on a.net, UA is fully aware of all deficiencies and is working hard at fixing them. Some will require more money, some more time, and some plain disciplinary action.

I'm still hopeful KBJCPilot will send me details of his flight.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
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777Jet
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:19 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
Would you mind sending me the flight/pilot info in a private message? We are trying really hard to turn things around at UA and this is not what we had in mind.

Thanks.

Sorry to hear about the OP's experience...

For some positive feedback:

My last UA flight was on a 752 from LAS-LAX a few months ago. After the flight, I asked the FO who was neat the exit door if I could visit the cockpit with my wife. He said that should be fine as (name of pilot) is still in there. Captain welcomes me in. As soon as he sees me pull out my camera, he asks me to sit in the left seat while he takes a pic of me! What a legend! Then he takes a pic of my wife and I together and lets me take a pic of her sitting in the left seat plus a few cockpit pics... He answered all my questions and seemed happy to talk until one of the FAs said time to go (which I understood completely because of their schedule). This was the best part of my 6 week holiday and this is why I will always fly United when they serve my route. I love UA  
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RyanairGuru
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:47 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 25):

I think we misunderstood each other, and I'm sure you're right about the pilot's conduct. I most certainly was not taking a jab at United's customer service. I was referring more to if he asked specifically why Channel 9 was unavailable, ultimately the pilots have discretion there, and the airline won't follow up why he turned it off. Being rude and condescending to a customer? That's a different matter, I agree.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:20 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 27):
I think we misunderstood each other, and I'm sure you're right about the pilot's conduct. I most certainly was not taking a jab at United's customer service. I was referring more to if he asked specifically why Channel 9 was unavailable, ultimately the pilots have discretion there, and the airline won't follow up why he turned it off. Being rude and condescending to a customer? That's a different matter, I agree.

This makes more sense now.   Thanks for the follow up.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
KBJCpilot
Topic Author
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:20 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 25):
I'm still hopeful KBJCPilot will send me details of his flight.

I appreciate the desire for me to reach out and explain the flight details and I would like to but I have two reasons I don't want to make a bigger issue out of it. 1. I think the pilot was pissy and took it out on me for some reason. I'm hoping he thought about what he said and won't head down that path again in the future. 2. This flight was for work purposes and I was a paying passenger. But I also have pass privileges due to a family member's employment and I don't want to jeopardize those benefits or have any fallout come back to bite me in the ass for complaining. I am hoping that some chief pilot in the Denver base would receive a copy of my original post and stick it on the bulletin board as a reminder for all to see.

If I wanted to be an ass I would have written a letter to UA's customer service dept demanding the pilot be reprimanded for his behavior and expect a reply. But I'm not that guy.
Samsonite, I was way off!
 
goboeing
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:09 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 25):
Some will require more money, some more time, and some plain disciplinary action.

Good luck trying to change corporate culture with disciplinary action.

I've seen it attempted and it failed miserably.

It's just like the old adage, "The floggings will continue until morale improves!"

I urge you to look at the more systemic situation in this scenario.

And the fact that the pilot's sense of humor was likely the opposite of the poster, who may or may not be posting facts.
 
Max Q
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:55 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 12):
Of course it isn't a legal right but promising a service to customers and not providing it can lead to some pretty nasty litigations.

No such promise is made.



Good luck with that.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:18 pm

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 25):
UA is transforming from a transportation company to a service company and this pilot would have to explain his actions.

As long as EV (f/k/a America's Sorriest Airline) is operating hundreds of frames for UA, good luck with that.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Type-Rated
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:23 pm

Now that we have discussed the Captain's right to have channel 9 on or off let's talk about the way he handled the OP.

The Captain was acting like a smart ass. That comment he made was insulting. There is no need to treat paying passengers like that. I've met quite a few like that. They never give a straight answer for anything. He could have just told the OP that he didn't want to turn it on, period. Put the responsibility for the problem where it belongs, on his own ass.

And if the OP had been Indian, African, Asian that comment he made could also have been considered racist as well.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
BEG2IAH
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 29):
I appreciate the desire for me to reach out and explain the flight details and I would like to but I have two reasons I don't want to make a bigger issue out of it.

I appreciate your detailed response and reasoning and will respect it.

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 29):
I am hoping that some chief pilot in the Denver base would receive a copy of my original post and stick it on the bulletin board as a reminder for all to see.

Someone is taking care of it.  
Quoting goboeing (Reply 30):
Good luck trying to change corporate culture with disciplinary action.

Sometimes it does help. These past few days we had some great examples what our pilots do to make our customers feel appreciated and the company is really trying to change the mindset of pilots like the one we see described here. UA cannot afford to have front line employees with this attitude.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):
As long as EV (f/k/a America's Sorriest Airline) is operating hundreds of frames for UA, good luck with that.

Everyone at UA is aware of everything written on A.net and we are doing what we can to make things better. Our strategy around regionals is changing, but we have contracts and we can't just throw them away. Things are changing for the better.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:23 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 34):Our strategy around regionals is changing, but we have contracts and we can't just throw them away.


I respect your efforts, but blaming the regional issues on contracts is a copout. Take a look at the latest Air Travel Consumer Report. EV is 7 points behind mainline on on-time arrivals, loses twice as many bags, has nearly three times as many IDBs and has 5 (!) pages of chronically delayed flights. Doubtless there are performance clauses in the regional contracts. UA should enforce them.

[Edited 2014-08-23 18:34:25]
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BEG2IAH
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 35):
I respect your efforts, but blaming the regional issues on contracts is a copout.


I'm not blaming the issues with regionals on our contracts. Things are far more complex and contracts do play a role at least in how many regionals we currently fly. Regarding the service level some of them provide is a different and not a pretty story. There are significant efforts to do something about that too.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 36):
I'm not blaming the issues with regionals on our contracts. Things are far more complex and contracts do play a role at least in how many regionals we currently fly. Regarding the service level some of them provide is a different and not a pretty story. There are significant efforts to do something about that too.

One reason why I believe regional flying should be brought in-house like at AS & WS. More easier to to control your service and culture in my opinion.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14175
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 36):
contracts do play a role at least in how many regionals we currently fly

I don't see the number of regionals as a problem in itself because some of the smaller regionals do a good job. Flying C5 is generally a treat, for instance, with friendly and informative crews and immaculate airplanes. It's quite a contrast from some of the larger operators.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
BEG2IAH
Posts: 938
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:42 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:58 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 38):
I don't see the number of regionals as a problem in itself because some of the smaller regionals do a good job.

For starters, we are consolidating how many different regionals are flying from each hub. I agree that the difference in quality is significant among some of them.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
lpdal
Posts: 1961
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:43 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 31):

Actually, there are thousands of cases that have no legal basis but are still accepted with valid causes of action. Way too many to possibly list in one post, but there are some outrageously ridiculous cases. A few years back, a teenage girl sued her father for grounding her and the judge ruled in her favor. It made media news...Just Google "ridiculous court cases" for a few laughs.  

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
copter808
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:10 am

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 29):

I appreciate the desire for me to reach out and explain the flight details and I would like to but I have two reasons I don't want to make a bigger issue out of it. 1. I think the pilot was pissy and took it out on me for some reason. I'm hoping he thought about what he said and won't head down that path again in the future. 2. This flight was for work purposes and I was a paying passenger. But I also have pass privileges due to a family member's employment and I don't want to jeopardize those benefits or have any fallout come back to bite me in the ass for complaining. I am hoping that some chief pilot in the Denver base would receive a copy of my original post and stick it on the bulletin board as a reminder for all to see.

If I wanted to be an ass I would have written a letter to UA's customer service dept demanding the pilot be reprimanded for his behavior and expect a reply. But I'm not that guy.

As a former CO guy and current pass rider, I personally would appreciate it if you could contact BEG2IAH and discuss this offline. Try as I may, I can see NO justification for the pilot's behavior! Maybe he was joking or had a bad day, but someone needs to bring the comment to his attention.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14175
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:33 pm

Quoting lpdal (Reply 40):
Actually, there are thousands of cases that have no legal basis but are still accepted with valid causes of action.

Please provide some examples (with citations or copies of opinions).

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 39):
For starters, we are consolidating how many different regionals are flying from each hub.

That's a step backward as long as the quality gap persists. It makes it harder to avoid EV and carriers on its performance level.

I was in CLL a couple of weeks ago. At about 2:30 p.m., EV cancelled its UA* flights for the remainder of the day. The remaining three Eagle flights operated. The two MQ flights were within 5 or 10 minutes of on time. The EV flight was 3 hours late. It's tough to blame the relative performances of EV and MQ on anything but EV. (And, to top it all off, the MQ flight attendant on the flight to DFW did a beverage service because the plane was catered and she felt that she could get it done with the light load. I have never met an EV flight attendant who would do such a thing.)
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
PI4EVER
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RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:21 pm

I recommend as required reading, for said pilot and some posters on this thread, available still on Amazon.com or at your local library "Moments of Truth" by Jan Carlzon. This really is not about Channel 9, Contract of Carriage, Entitlement, $ you spent on a ticket, Litigation or the tired "I'll never fly Brand X again". Its how you treat people. Employees and Customers alike. It has to be the core of the business plan, after safety and reliability. Some airlines focus on it, some don't or not so much. Even outside the airline business Mr. Carlzon drives home many points about our daily "Moments of Truth" with customers that still applies today in any customer-focused business. And a memorable quote from Herb Kelleher that resonates to this day at Southwest "I tell my employees that we're in the service business, and it's incidental that we fly airplanes."
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
copter808
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 43):
I recommend as required reading, for said pilot and some posters on this thread, available still on Amazon.com or at your local library "Moments of Truth" by Jan Carlzon.

Just ordered the book! $2.10 plus $3.99 shipping. Seems a lot for shipping, ut I don't think I could find the book for $6 anywhere else.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7917
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:32 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 34):
Everyone at UA is aware of everything written on A.net

Do you actually believe that ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
BEG2IAH
Posts: 938
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:42 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:38 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 45):
Do you actually believe that ?

I actually know that. I work with many different departments and we do know the issues. There are some issues no one here knows about but fix those too.  
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
AT
Posts: 891
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:07 pm

This may be an overgeneralization but I have noticed that in general
Delta inflight crews tend to be the most consistently hospitable
American and Jetblue somewhere in the middle
United the least so.
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1652
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:30 pm

So channel 9 is an exclusive to UA product that all of us at UA should be proud to show off especially since we are deemed the worst in so many areas. No matter what people may have to say negative about our airline, there is nothing but positive that comes from channel 9 being on. Lastly that pilot seemed to forget that he is also front facing customer service, and it would have been better that he said nothing than to respond in such a crass manner to a passenger.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
BEG2IAH
Posts: 938
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:42 pm

RE: UAL Pilot-"Sounds Like First-World Problem To

Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:04 pm

Just to update everyone, I identified the flight and forwarded the information to the officer in charge. KBJCpilot did not reveal all the details, but I was stubborn enough and succeeded in reconstructing the rest of the picture. I don't want any of our customers to have a similar experience.

[Edited 2014-08-27 14:09:08]
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.

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