davescj
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The Seat Recline Debate

Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:07 pm

I looked for this, but did not see a topic on it...so...

We all know pax are squeezed into seats. But now it seems people are getting out of control. By now we've all heard about the flight that was diverted over the seat recline problems and the "knee defender." FWIW, I've never seen one on a plane used, so I don't know how flight staff would deal with it (though if a seat does not recline, I will look for one. If one was there, I'd call for an FA, I would not deal with the pax directly in this day and age).

But I'm curious- what are the experiences of others? The link below is to the USAToday article and the flight that was diverted over the matter.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...der-reclining-seat-fight/15025351/

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
tonystan
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:09 pm

Personally, anything less than a 33" pitch on short haul aircraft should just remove the recline mechanism!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
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777Jet
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:12 pm

My expectation is that my seat reclines. I keep it upright at appropriate times such as during meals etc. (and obviously at lower alitiudes) and always make sure I recline / raise it very slowly / smoothly as to not hurt the person behind me or spill anything on their tray table. But, for most of the flight, I have it reclined...

Regarding the knee defender. I would never use one. However, if somebody used it to prevent me from reclining I would attempt to knock it off to make them aware of how I feel about them tampering with my seat. Failing that I would inform a FA. I would not accept it or let it slide without raising the issue. If the seat is designed to recline and somebody is preventing my seat from functioning how it is supposed to then I will deal with them. Good on that lady for throwing soda on that tool who tried to be nice by implying "it has a card to let pax know you have blocked their seat but I never place the warningcard blah blah blah" - if I ever found such a card it would disappear...

[Edited 2014-09-04 07:24:00]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:04 pm

If you paid for your ticket you should be able to reline your seat as much as and whenever you want. I never get mad at people that do it to me- because I do it too. To use a knee defender or to complain about it to a FA makes you a complete dick.
 
opethfan
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:46 pm

Take it out. The hassle is greater than the benefit.
 
FriscoHeavy
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:11 pm

There shouldn't even be a "debate" about this topic. If the seat reclines, the person sitting in it has the right to recline it as far as they want. It's as simple as that.
Whatever
 
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fallap
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:16 pm

And that's why I want to pursue a master degree, so I can earn a sh1tload of money and never have to fly coach again.
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
30percent
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:27 am

It is substandard seat pitch when it's impossible to work on a laptop, read, or eat behind a reclined seat.

Too tight seat rows mean exiting concerns in case of emergency. Also, passengers are unable to brace themselves according to the aircraft safety card.

When the dogs in cargo have more legal space requirements than the human passengers, the DOT needs to step in and set a minimum distance between airline seats - for passenger health and safety.

Please, treat us like dogs!
 
Type-Rated
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:14 am

Quoting FriscoHeavy (Reply 5):
There shouldn't even be a "debate" about this topic. If the seat reclines, the person sitting in it has the right to recline it as far as they want. It's as simple as that.

        

And if the person in front of you reclines their seat and you don't like it, just write a letter to the airline that you are unhappy and see what they have to say about it!

[Edited 2014-09-05 04:16:10]
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
eaglepower83
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:45 pm

Quoting 30percent (Reply 7):
When the dogs in cargo have more legal space requirements than the human passengers, the DOT needs to step in and set a minimum distance between airline seats - for passenger health and safety.

Unfortunately there will have to be A LOT more embolism deaths before this is regarded.  
 
spacecadet
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:51 am

Quoting FriscoHeavy (Reply 5):
There shouldn't even be a "debate" about this topic. If the seat reclines, the person sitting in it has the right to recline it as far as they want. It's as simple as that.

Exactly. This whole thing is moronic. A few spoiled brats who think that their own desires trump those of everyone else, when the only thing that really matters is what the airline says and does. If the airline provides reclining seats, they're meant to be reclined.

I'm 6'4" and I never complain when somebody reclines in front of me. It's their right as a passenger just as it is mine to do the same. Saying the person in front of you can't recline is the same as saying they're not allowed to go to the bathroom because it annoys you when they get up. Stop being such a freakin' baby.

The only thing I don't like is when people are wholly inconsiderate of the fact that there's someone behind them, and they just yank their seat all the way back in one quick and violent motion. All I ask for is a little time to react, so I can move my legs or re-angle my laptop screen or whatever I need to do. I always try to recline slowly for that reason myself. I know some airlines actually ask passengers to do this in their announcements. But as to the act of reclining itself, go for it.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:37 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 10):
The only thing I don't like is when people are wholly inconsiderate of

What really annoys me is when they grab my seat to get up and yank it back as they get up. It makes me want to rage.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:24 pm

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 3):

Agreed, don't build it if you can't use it.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 3):

So very True.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
ltbewr
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:05 pm

Perhaps a compromise should be considered either in practice or in FAA regulations to limit the maximum degree of recline to about 1/2 of current levels. Some do need that recline to be comfortable and safe.

I would fully agree with setting a minimum pitch of 32 inches for all a/c with the seatback up to try as well as redesign seat tables so can be better utilized when the back it is attached to is set back.
 
eastern747
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:27 pm

This guy was on one of the morning shows, and seemed to be sorry and embarassed by the whole thing. He was working on his lap top when BANG the seat came back in one quick jerk. He was a middle aged man and didn't come across as a nut job.He moved his lap top to his legs, and pushed the table up a bit to see the screen. It was then the liquid was thrown., I think were both wrong but I would have had the women arrested for assault. I read somewhere they were in economy plus.
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 14):
He was a middle aged man and didn't come across as a nut job.

Thats because he's human and sometimes completely normal people do weird out of character things. Its whats always amusing about people on here that assume they are some insane person who should be fined and jailed for every offence.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:17 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 14):
He was working on his lap top


So, according to him he has the RIGHT to work on his laptop but the Pax in front has not right to recline her seat?

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 14):
when BANG the seat came back in one quick jerk.

which happened only AFTER he was told to remove the blocking device
A330 man.
 
lpdal
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:31 pm

My solution is to always fly up front. Yes, I realize that not everyone can afford it, but there is a thousand ways to skin a cat, and that is what works best for me. Then again, I'm sick and tired of people seeking their fifteen minutes of fame by causing stuff like this. Sometimes, it's better to be the bigger human and just drop it instead of causing pointless drama, and ultimately delaying a flight /inconveniencing other passengers.

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
pierrelav
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:13 pm

Wrong debate.. How much crap will the passengers tolerate from the airlines???
 
30percent
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:34 pm

Trying to find a civil solution to an un-civil situation is impossible. There is no civil solution to the airlines' treatment of coach class passengers.

They will continue to lower the standard of travel as much as they can to squeeze the most money out of passengers. Airbus just got a patent for stand-up seating.

Coach class mutiny is brewing..
 
e38
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:21 am

First/ Premium Class is not always better. Sometimes you have to put up with people who have huge egos, think they are "better" than everyone else, are very self-absorbed, and possess a sense of entitlement.

Getting back to the original debate, I do not think airplane seats should recline. If people were considerate, I might feel differently, but since most folks these days are NOT particularly considerate of others, I would prefer that the seats do not recline. Not once has a passenger seated directly in front of me turned around and asked if I minded if they recline. If they were to ask nicely, I would not object, but they never do, and yes, I've had coffee, soft drink, water, etc., spilled in my lap because of it.

I have flown Spirit Airlines quite a bit (not in the Big Front Seats) where the seats do NOT recline, have been very comfortable, and actually enjoyed the flights more so than when flying other airlines.

e38
 
opethfan
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:25 am

Quoting 30percent (Reply 19):

"But passengers WANT cheaper seating. Ignore all that stuff about middle class incomes shrinking, adjusted for inflation; oil prices and taxes making up more and more of ticket prices. If they wanted more comfort, they would be buying Y+ despite it usually costing double what Y does. It's the passengers fault!"
 
lpdal
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:56 am

Quoting e38 (Reply 20):
First/ Premium Class is not always better. Sometimes you have to put up with people who have huge egos, think they are "better" than everyone else, are very self-absorbed, and possess a sense of entitlement.

No one is forcing you to interact with your seatmate.

I've actually never seen anyone get rowdy upfront, and I've flown sixteen legs in revenue First Class in the last six months. It's mostly businesspeople and status flyers, generally in business attire. Most of the time they are sleeping, quietly working, or in hushed conversation with their seatmate.

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
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PA110
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 1):

Personally, anything less than a 33" pitch on short haul aircraft should just remove the recline mechanism!

Agreed. I've been on flights where the person in the middle/window seats could not exit to get to the bathroom because a seat was reclined in the row ahead. They then took to climbing on the seats to get out, representing a risk to themselves, other passengers and the airline.

If there isn't sufficient room to read, work on a laptop, exit your seat with the seat in front of you reclined, then the rows are too close together to support a recline function. Remove it.
Look, it's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
 
30percent
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:13 am

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 21):

Quoting 30percent (Reply 19):

"But passengers WANT cheaper seating.

Your (and the airlines') argument that "the customers demand cheap fares, and therefore less seat-space" is deflecting from the real point.

That the airlines are squeezing more people in AND raising airfares -- there's been no reduction in airfare to correlate with tighter seating.

Enter the promotion of Economy Plus.... then upgrade you cheapskate -you (and the airlines) say. Yet the average price can be 25% more, and is it exponentially better? Hardly.

And look how much airfares have risen compared to inflation. Airfares are soaring, up 10.7% in the past five years, outpacing inflation.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/us-...flation-b99323853z1-269834471.html
 
lpdal
Posts: 1961
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:21 am

Quoting 30percent (Reply 24):

That the airlines are squeezing more people in AND raising airfares -- there's been no reduction in airfare to correlate with tighter seating.

This isn't unique to the airline industry. ALL products have risen in price, most notably groceries and other essentials of that nature.

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
Viscount724
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:56 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 25):
Quoting 30percent (Reply 24):

That the airlines are squeezing more people in AND raising airfares -- there's been no reduction in airfare to correlate with tighter seating.

This isn't unique to the airline industry. ALL products have risen in price, most notably groceries and other essentials of that nature.

Taking inflation into account, today's air fares are still lower in most cases than 30 or 40 years ago when airline fares were highly regulated. Today's tighter seating has helped minimize fare increases in response to the massive increase in fuel prices over the past few years.
 
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A340313X
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:44 pm

I agree that the recline facility should be removed in short haul cabins, it just causes more trouble than it's worth. I tend to only recline fully on long hauls to Australia where most people are sleeping. If I do I do it gently so as to avoid hurting anyone. If the person in front reclines, that's their prerogative. If they do it hard or fast and break or spill something I just politely and calmly inform them and ask them to be more considerate. Amazing how people can start disagreements about such minor things.
 
30percent
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:55 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 26):
Taking inflation into account, today's air fares are still lower in most cases than 30 or 40 years ago when airline fares were highly regulated. Today's tighter seating has helped minimize fare increases in response to the massive increase in fuel prices over the past few years.

An airline ticket today does not get you the same things it used to. Add in the price of meal plus checked bags and the price decline disappears. And, seats have shrunk, you have much less leg room, seat width and cushioning. Plus, you’re not going to have an empty seat next to you.

So it’s an apples and oranges comparison to look at flights from decades ago and now. it’s simply not the same product.

A lot of the high prices in the 70′s and 80′s were also driven by unions and the drop in prices had a lot to do with much of the industry going through BK to get out from under contracts and obligations.

Also, airport security has become far more odious, you have to spend more time at the airport, you cannot brings big toiletries or your own drinks, and flights are generally longer as planes fly more slowly to save fuel.

Such intangibles are difficult to handicap, but, to compare the price of a product over time, you do need to make sure it’s the same product.

Probably a way to look at this would be to compare the price of first class tickets, as first class still comes with food and free bag check, just as it used to.
 
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PITingres
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:54 pm

I don't agree that recline should be removed on short haul, but only because not everyone is comfortable at the same seat angle. I'd leave maybe an inch of recline, no more than that. Plus with a small amount of recline you could probably get away with swapping the equipment in for a longer flight if needed; I don't think you'll get away with a no-recline setup for more than an hour or so.

And certainly if a reclined seat can prevent those behind from getting in and out, it's too much recline.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
29erUSA187
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RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:06 pm

I always keep my seat reclined when I can. People
Complain about how their space goes away, but they can just recline to solve the problem. The aviation industry would be a lotore comfortable if everyone did that
 
opethfan
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Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: The Seat Recline Debate

Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:03 am

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 30):

Bulkheads. Exit rows.

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