aviatorcraig
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:27 pm

American flight 81 LHR-DFW a B763 has just turned around half an hour out squawking emergency 7700. Anyone know what's the problem?
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777Jet
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:29 pm

Hope all turns out well...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
bunumuring
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:32 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):

Hope all turns out well...

I second that.
Everyone's a bit jumpy at the moment over 'emergency' things ...
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
aviatorcraig
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:35 pm

Aircraft is N355AA
Now down to 7000 feet heading back to LHR. Been in the air 40 mins. Not stopping to burn off fuel.
I can feel an overweight landing coming on!
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777Jet
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:38 pm

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 3):
I can feel an overweight landing coming on!

It would be good if a LHR spotter gets the overweight landing on video...  
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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Miami
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:41 pm

That 'NOW' in the title scares me.. It's like something major is happening right now. Hard to explain the feeling.

Hopefully all is well, and is nothing serious.

I hope everyone on board is OK.
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scouseflyer
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:41 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 4):

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 3):
I can feel an overweight landing coming on!

It would be good if a LHR spotter gets the overweight landing on video...  

Not if it crashes  
 
aviatorcraig
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:42 pm

Just been vectored over central London to intercept the glide slope so I doubt it is technical. Possibly a medical emergency?
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777Jet
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:44 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 6):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 4):

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 3):
I can feel an overweight landing coming on!

It would be good if a LHR spotter gets the overweight landing on video...

Not if it crashes

I didn't mean it like that... Not that having spotters there filming would make a difference to the outcome  

I'm sure if a worst case scenario happened the investigators would find such footage usefull anyway...

Hopefully not too long to go now and all will be back on the ground safely soon...
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aviatorcraig
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:50 pm

It has landed on 27R and vacated so all would appear to be well.
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777Jet
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:55 pm

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 9):
It has landed on 27R and vacated so all would appear to be well.

Probably just a medical. If so, I hope the pax is okay...

If it was a medical, would it usually fuel dump if it was overweight? If it was a medical but was overweight and didn't fuel dump (but usually would) I would assume it would be because of something pretty serious... Something serious enough to risk an overweight landing?
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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speedbored
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:00 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 10):
Something serious enough to risk an overweight landing?

These days, as long as the rate of descent and braking are sufficiently controlled to keep the forces within limits, an overweight landing is usually a non-event.
 
aviatorcraig
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:04 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 5):

Sorry if that alarmed anyone. It was intended to indicate 'real time' so people could follow it on FR24 like I was.
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wingnutmn
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:10 pm

Are AA 767 all enabled for fuel dumping? I thought this was an option, not standards equipment.

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trnswrld
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:17 pm

^^^ I could be wrong but I think ALL 767s are capable of dumping fuel.
 
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DL_Mech
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:31 pm

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 14):
^^^ I could be wrong but I think ALL 767s are capable of dumping fuel.

No, some of their early 767-300ERs do not have fuel dump.


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[Edited 2014-09-30 06:36:53]
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mmo
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:36 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 10):
If it was a medical, would it usually fuel dump if it was overweight? If it was a medical but was overweight and didn't fuel dump (but usually would) I would assume it would be because of something pretty serious... Something serious enough to risk an overweight landing?

As has already been stated, an overweight landing is not a bid deal. Furthermore, once an emergency is declared, there is no differentiation between medical and systems, the PIC is allowed to land overweight, dump fuel or take what ever action is necessary for a safe landing. Personally in this day, I'd land overweight as dumping is very expensive.

As a matter of certification, all transport aircraft are certified to land up to their max takeoff weight (structural). Having dumping capability does not negate this certification requirement.
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gulfstream650
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:36 pm

LHR 1225P T3 27
DFW D7 D D29 455P 625P D D17
TUS 7 A8 640P
7LHR/AUTO REACCOM DLY FLT COMPLETED SEE N*P1AA0081LHR30SEP *0724*CRCYMG
2LHR/IN1352 *0752
3LHR/ETD1450 *0843
4LHR/OUT1447 OFF1509 *0909
1DFW/ARNTP/RTRN TO LHR ETA1340RMKS PLAN CONT TO DFW
FTWDP T.SHELTON *0713
5DFW/FLT 0081 STUB ORIG PLN DEP DFW ETD 1825 -- DFW .RMKS ACCT DLAD UPLINE EQ FTWDP M.D.EVANS *0739
2DFW/ETA1914 *1023
2TUS/PRE1840 *0739
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BoeingGuy
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 15):
Quoting trnswrld (Reply 14):
^^^ I could be wrong but I think ALL 767s are capable of dumping fuel.

No, some of their early 767-300ERs do not have fuel dump.

It's based on weight. Lighter 767s that have a MTOW below a certain weight don't need fuel jettison.

However, I'm pretty sure all 767-300ERs have fuel dump. It's more like only old non-ER 767-200s are light enough to not need it.
 
wjcandee
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AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 6):
Not if it crashes  

Really? Seriously?

Aircraft do air returns multiple times per day in this country alone. An overweight landing is, as has been said above, essentially a non-event. It certainly isn't going to "cause a crash".

I think folks need to look at these events with a lot more mature perspective.
 
AR385
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RE: AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 10):
If it was a medical, would it usually fuel dump if it was overweight? If it was a medical but was overweight and didn't fuel dump (but usually would) I would assume it would be because of something pretty serious... Something serious enough to risk an overweight landing?

Any medical that requires a diversion is pretty serious, on the "if you don´t land as soon as practical, the person´s gonna die", side of serious. Simple fractures, or sprains brought on by turbulence will seldom make a pilot divert, for example.

Quoting mmo (Reply 16):
Furthermore, once an emergency is declared, there is no differentiation between medical and systems, the PIC is allowed to land overweight, dump fuel or take what ever action is necessary for a safe landing.

True, but depending on the nature of the medical, the PIC will exercise discretion on how aggressive his landing maneuver is going to be. Always following the advice of whichever Dr. is tending to the person and their MEDLink advice (or other service)

Quoting mmo (Reply 16):
Personally in this day, I'd land overweight as dumping is very expensive.

I don´t think it´s more expensive than having to put up passengers in hotels for the night cost, plus the entire overweight inspection cost and related maintenance.

Do we know yet the reason for the divert?
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:17 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 18):
However, I'm pretty sure all 767-300ERs have fuel dump.

I know that some Gulf Air and American ships are without fuel dump.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
mmo
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RE: AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:14 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 20):
True, but depending on the nature of the medical, the PIC will exercise discretion on how aggressive his landing maneuver is going to be.

I guess I am somewhat puzzled by your comments. An emergency is an emergency. You get the aircraft on the ground in the least amount of time. There is no issue of aggressiveness. That's how accidents happen.



Quoting AR385 (Reply 20):
I don´t think it´s more expensive than having to put up passengers in hotels for the night cost, plus the entire overweight inspection cost and related maintenance.

I am not sure you really realize what happens after an overweight landing. How do we end up with passengers in hotels? The first thing that happens in an overweight landing inspection is the CMC (central maintenance computer) is accessed to look at the landing parameters. If they are all within limits, a visual inspection is accomplished and if nothing is found the aircraft is released for flight. In fact, I can make an argument that it is more economical to not dump fuel as you then have additional crew time to consider, then you have the problem of the crew possibly timing out. So, from my experience, getting on the ground as soon as possible is the most prudent action in an emergency.
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AR385
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RE: AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:14 am

Quoting mmo (Reply 22):
I guess I am somewhat puzzled by your comments. An emergency is an emergency. You get the aircraft on the ground in the least amount of time. There is no issue of aggressiveness. That's how accidents happen.

Maybe I should have clarified what I said better. I was talking all the time about a medical emergency. If you have a person that needs medical attention, I´m sure they will get on the ground as soon as PRACTICAL, but not as soon as possible. If you have a fire on board, I´m positive they will get on the ground as soon as POSSIBLE. Both qualify as emergencies, don´t they?

Quoting mmo (Reply 22):
I am not sure you really realize what happens after an overweight landing. How do we end up with passengers in hotels? The first thing that happens in an overweight landing inspection is the CMC (central maintenance computer) is accessed to look at the landing parameters. If they are all within limits, a visual inspection is accomplished and if nothing is found the aircraft is released for flight. In fact, I can make an argument that it is more economical to not dump fuel as you then have additional crew time to consider, then you have the problem of the crew possibly timing out. So, from my experience, getting on the ground as soon as possible is the most prudent action in an emergency.

You are right. I am not an expert on the subject.
 
mmo
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RE: AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:43 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 23):
Both qualify as emergencies, don´t they?

They both qualify as emergencies. However, an emergency is an emergency. If you have already declared an emergency, all things being equal, there is no real purpose served drilling holes in the sky dumping fuel when you can land overweight. It's not a big deal at all. If you are going to try to recover a schedule, the sooner you get on the ground the better it is for everyone. Perhaps if the medical situation isn't that bad, then an emergency should not have been declared?
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AR385
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RE: AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:56 am

Quoting mmo (Reply 24):
Perhaps if the medical situation isn't that bad, then an emergency should not have been declared?

I do not really know who decides on the badness of the situation. From what I´ve read (I am not a pilot by any means) flight deck crews consult the Dr. on board if there is one and the service the airline has contracted, such as Medlink, for example. I suppose they also consult Ops. But they are certainly not going to land in a place that although can handle the aircraft is nothing but a runway in the middle of nowhere. They have to take the sick passenger somewhere with the medical infrastructure to handle their problem after all.

But they will need special handling and priority for different things, so maybe that is why an emergency is declared.

I do understand however that if a medical emergency is declared, the situation for whomever is ill, has to be pretty dire.

[Edited 2014-09-30 23:57:12]
 
mmo
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RE: AA 763 Emergency Sept. 30

Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:29 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 25):
But they will need special handling and priority for different things, so maybe that is why an emergency is declared.

There are ways to communicate the need for special handling without declaring an emergency. The issue is, why declare an emergency then spend 2 hours drilling holes in the sky while you dump fuel to get to your max landing weight? It makes no sense at all.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 25):
But they are certainly not going to land in a place that although can handle the aircraft is nothing but a runway in the middle of nowhere. They have to take the sick passenger somewhere with the medical infrastructure to handle their problem after all.

Please re-read my qualifier. It was "all things being equal". In this case, the aircraft returned to LHR and that was the basis on which I commented. Obviously, you are not going to land/divert to an airport that can not provide the required assistance!

Quoting AR385 (Reply 25):
I do not really know who decides on the badness of the situation.

Ultimately, the Captain decides on the seriousness of the situation with inputs from medical staff/ops and anyone else you can get to provide information. Ops will generally have a recommended airport if you are enroute, but in this case it was pretty clear a return to LHR was the best option.
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