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FRAIAD
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Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:42 pm

Mods: Please move this to a different forum if not appropriate for 'Travel, Polls & Preferences'!

I would appreciate airliners.net members' help with regard to the following issue: My wife left her iPhone in the seat pocket on United Airlines flight UA4287 (IAD-IAH) on 1/15/15 (not smart, I know!). The aircraft (N11109) subsequently operated flight UA4650 from IAH to Tucson, AZ leaving IAH at 9:09am. The flight attendant on our connecting flight was not willing or able to contact the gate where our flight to Houston had arrived so we filed a lost item report through the United website at 8:55am. The phone was used to post private pictures on Facebook and afterwards left in a parking lot in Tucson. This leads me to the conclusion that the phone was taken by the passenger sitting in seat 19C on UA4650.

United Airlines is not willing to help us with finding out who is responsible (and we didn't really expect them to disclose the identity of the passenger). Is there anything I can do about this? Members' input would be greatly appreciated! We are just so mad and would love to hold the responsible person accountable.

Thank you in advance for your help!
 
Cipango
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:49 pm

Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
The phone was used to post private pictures on Facebook and afterwards left in a parking lot in Tucson.

Was the parking lot in Tucson Airport? If so the location on iPhones is sometimes a little off...

Interesting topic. I apologise that I am not of help but it seems to be a very tricky one because UA will not (and to be honest should not) reveal the passengers information. As annoying as that sounds its just the world we live in.

Information is too private nowadays...
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usflyer msp
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:17 pm

If you go it back from the TUS parking lot, don't worry about it...
 
lpdal
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:19 pm

Quoting Cipango (Reply 1):
very tricky one because UA will not (and to be honest should not) reveal the passengers information

Nope. Thieves' personal information should be posted for everyone to see (not a "wanted poster", but you know what I mean). Otherwise, who knows who else the thief could steal from? In addition, posting their personal information in public helps law enforcement receive leads and tips to their location. In the USA, criminals have no right to privacy. They waived that when they begun their life of crime.

-LPDAL
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zckls04
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:33 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 3):
Nope. Thieves' personal information should be posted for everyone to see (not a "wanted poster", but you know what I mean). Otherwise, who knows who else the thief could steal from? In addition, posting their personal information in public helps law enforcement receive leads and tips to their location. In the USA, criminals have no right to privacy. They waived that when they begun their life of crime.

Maybe, but in this case you don't know that the person in that seat is the thief. It could have been a cleaner, a flight attendant, the person in seat 19B etc. The guy in 19A deserves his privacy until you can show otherwise.
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CplKlinger
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:54 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 3):
Nope. Thieves' personal information should be posted for everyone to see (not a "wanted poster", but you know what I mean). Otherwise, who knows who else the thief could steal from? In addition, posting their personal information in public helps law enforcement receive leads and tips to their location. In the USA, criminals have no right to privacy. They waived that when they begun their life of crime.

As someone else has stated, you're saying that we should go ahead and assume that the person in the seat is the thief, and not entertain the possibility that someone else, like a cleaner or mechanic took it? I'm not sure if you are aware, but there is a thing called due process that we use here in the United States (you know, that innocent until proven guilty bit). The airline is right to withhold that information until it can be clearly demonstrated that the passenger is to blame. Otherwise, the passenger could sue the airline for a breach of privacy. I wish the OP luck, but I can guarantee that the airline won't be giving out that information to anyone but the police, and only if subpoenaed, and that's the way it should be.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:07 pm

Did you try Find my iPhone. If you have iOS 7/8 you can put it in lost mode or even erase.
All posts are just opinions.
 
FRAIAD
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:28 pm

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 5):
...there is a thing called due process that we use here in the United States...

No kidding...!
 
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777Jet
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:26 am

Quoting Cipango (Reply 1):
I apologise that I am not of help but it seems to be a very tricky one because UA will not (and to be honest should not) reveal the passengers information. As annoying as that sounds its just the world we live in.

  

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 4):
Quoting LPDAL (Reply 3):
Nope. Thieves' personal information should be posted for everyone to see (not a "wanted poster", but you know what I mean). Otherwise, who knows who else the thief could steal from? In addition, posting their personal information in public helps law enforcement receive leads and tips to their location. In the USA, criminals have no right to privacy. They waived that when they begun their life of crime.

Maybe, but in this case you don't know that the person in that seat is the thief. It could have been a cleaner, a flight attendant, the person in seat 19B etc. The guy in 19A deserves his privacy until you can show otherwise.

  

Where is the proof that the next person in that seat took the phone? There is none. It might even be safe to assume that the seat pocket was checked by a cleaner or FA between flights so they might have had the first chance to steal the phone if they saw it - before the next pax arrived. Should their details be made public too? I think not... If the airline made such details public I have no doubt that they would be rightly sued...

Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 5):
Quoting LPDAL (Reply 3):
Nope. Thieves' personal information should be posted for everyone to see (not a "wanted poster", but you know what I mean). Otherwise, who knows who else the thief could steal from? In addition, posting their personal information in public helps law enforcement receive leads and tips to their location. In the USA, criminals have no right to privacy. They waived that when they begun their life of crime.

As someone else has stated, you're saying that we should go ahead and assume that the person in the seat is the thief, and not entertain the possibility that someone else, like a cleaner or mechanic took it? I'm not sure if you are aware, but there is a thing called due process that we use here in the United States (you know, that innocent until proven guilty bit). The airline is right to withhold that information until it can be clearly demonstrated that the passenger is to blame. Otherwise, the passenger could sue the airline for a breach of privacy. I wish the OP luck, but I can guarantee that the airline won't be giving out that information to anyone but the police, and only if subpoenaed, and that's the way it should be.

  
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flymia
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:26 am

Because it is an iphone missing I doubt the police are going to help. If you the posting/sharing of the pictures is fairly serious/embarrassing etc.. and you really really want to find the person who did this then contact the police who if they wanted to help may be able to get the information of the person sitting in that seat and question them or contact a lawyer who can try to subpoena the information with the right facts/cause.

In all likelihood its a lost cause and not worth anyone money or time unless there has been some serious financial or emotional damage done.
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garpd
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:17 pm

Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
We are just so mad and would love to hold the responsible person accountable.

Then look no further than your wife.
She left it, didn't she? So she is ultimately accountable for the content of the phone and the whereabouts thereof. She had charge of the device and negligently left it behind on a public conveyance. If she also did not lock the phone, she is responsible for any sensitive data or images being leaked.

To be angry that someone picked it up strikes me as a little selfish and naive.
Sorry, but in this case, I feel that is the cold hard truth.
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copter808
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:11 pm

Have you made a police report? That should be the first step!

Will you get the phone back or will the offender be prosecuted? Probably not, but it is THEIR job to investigate it, NOT UA's. Quite likely your insurance carrier will require a police report anyway.
 
lpdal
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:36 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 9):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 8):
Quoting CplKlinger (Reply 5):
Quoting zckls04 (Reply 4):

Um, I obviously meant AFTER they figured out the perp. I never meant posting people's personal information BEFORE they verified the identity of the criminal. I shouldn't need to point out obvious things like this, nobody would post information of a person in public until they had a firm grasp on who the thief was. And, before anyone points out something about the OP, I'm talking in GENERAL.

-LPDAL
TWU Local 568 represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
copter808
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:17 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 3):
Thieves' personal information should be posted for everyone to see (not a "wanted poster", but you know what I mean).

Although I may well agree with you, you need to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that you have a strong enough case to withstand a civil court challenge. Otherwise it could become VERY expensive for you. If you're wrong, YOU could be the criminal!

Far better to swallow your pride and just let it go after making a police report.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:24 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 13):
Far better to swallow your pride and just let it go after making a police report.

As well as be more careful with your belongings in the future so that others can't find them or easily access your personal information  
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OMP777X
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 3):
Nope. Thieves' personal information should be posted for everyone to see (not a "wanted poster", but you know what I mean). Otherwise, who knows who else the thief could steal from? In addition, posting their personal information in public helps law enforcement receive leads and tips to their location. In the USA, criminals have no right to privacy. They waived that when they begun their life of crime.



-LPDAL

To me it sounds like someone found it, and possibly dropped it in a lost and found or left it elsewhere after posting a couple of photos to Facebook. This isn't your average "Apple Picker". I don't think there is going to be any investigation into who found and temporarily used a lost phone, and left it behind to be found again.
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copter808
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 12):
Um, I obviously meant AFTER they figured out the perp. I never meant posting people's personal information BEFORE they verified the identity of the criminal. I shouldn't need to point out obvious things like this, nobody would post information of a person in public until they had a firm grasp on who the thief was. And, before anyone points out something about the OP, I'm talking in GENERAL.

The problem is being able to establish guilt far beyond a reasonable doubt. If the offender is arrested and tried, but found not guilty, you open yourself up to potential civil liability.

NOT a good idea!

I'm NOT saying I disagree with your position. I very much agree with it, but unfortunately in today's society, it's not worth it to jeopardize your financial future.
 
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freakydeaky
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:37 am

Although I'm not of any immediate help, people steal stuff in the airplane all the time...during cruise as well. While deplaning, some people visually scan the rows they pass looking for stuff to abscond with. I see it all the time. All things valuable should be affixed to your person at all times. When I travel in the back, I have my iPad and phone in a mini-case with handles and a strap so that I can zip it up and wrap the handles and strap around my hands while I nap. They'd wake me if they tried rummaging. Thankfully the vast majority is honest, but you never know who the minority is.
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OMP777X
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:56 am

Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
we filed a lost item report through the United website at 8:55am.
Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
United Airlines is not willing to help us with finding out who is responsible (and we didn't really expect them to disclose the identity of the passenger).

Am I completely reading this wrong, or are you insinuating that someone other than the wife is responsible for the LOSS of her phone? I keep reading above comments about holding this person who used it after the fact accountable, etc, but accountable for what exactly? For temporarily using a phone that they've found in public? We have no indication that they even have the phone still, and even if they did, it is not a crime (at least to my knowledge) to use a lost electronic device. IMHO, it seems as if there is someone who is trying to avoid having a frank discussion with their wife about the hardships of not keeping track of your own personal electronic devices by attempting to shift attention to the fact that there is proof that someone else had possessed it temporarily after the fact. I'm not at all surprised that the airline didn't help solve a "theft" that didn't ever take place. I'm hoping that some of the comments above stem from people failing to fully read the text of the OP, and that people are able to read between the lines if they're still thinking that his wife was done wrong by someone else after losing her own phone, just because it wasn't immediately returned to her. I'm not saying the person who found it shouldn't have tried to help return it to her, or hand it off to the authorities (which is what I've done when finding a phone), but still. I've even known a few people who've alleged that when they've had their wallets returned to them by a person who found it for them after they've lost their wallet, that it was then found to be missing cash. In one case the wallet was even returned by the police, and there was even suspicion that the officer who found it had pocketed the money. Do these people go looking for a "thief"?
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777Jet
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:46 am

Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
The phone was used to post private pictures on Facebook
Quoting Omp777x (Reply 15):
To me it sounds like someone found it, and possibly dropped it in a lost and found or left it elsewhere after posting a couple of photos to Facebook.
Quoting Omp777x (Reply 18):
For temporarily using a phone that they've found in public?

I'm curious to know whose pics were uploaded to whose FB profile?

If whoever found the phone was stupid enough to access their oiwn FB profile with the phone then they could be tracked quite easily.

However, I fear that the following might have happened if I understand correctly:

Some personal and possibly embarassing pics of the phone's owner that were saved in the phone were discovered and uploaded to the phone owner's FB profile as the phone might have already been logged into FB as usual. If that is what happened, and the owner had some X rated selfies or other kind of embarassing pics uploaded to their own FB account then that could be embarassing...

Was there not an active pin code on to protect the phone's content in the event the phone got lost and then found by somebody else???
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:58 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 10):
If she also did not lock the phone, she is responsible for any sensitive data or images being leaked.

So if you leave your house unlocked its ok if I just go in and mess around?
 
FRAIAD
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 10):

To be angry that someone picked it up strikes me as a little selfish and naive.

So, if I find a phone it's totally cool if I post private information on Facebook...interesting concept! Because the person leaving it somewhere is responsible.

Mod: Please close this thread!
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
The flight attendant on our connecting flight was not willing or able to contact the gate where our flight to Houston

How would the FA have the number to the gate? It's not their job to clean up your mess anyway. Your wife was careless and it's ultimately her fault the phone is gone.
 
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garpd
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:41 pm

Quoting Armitageshanks (Reply 20):
So if you leave your house unlocked its ok if I just go in and mess around?

Love the username!

To the point in hand: Apples and Oranges. You cannot compare leaving an unlocked phone on a plane to leaving a house unlocked. The principles just don't match.
But, the humour you: If I left my house unlocked and came back to find it ransacked... it would by my own fault!
Likewise, if I leave my phone on a plane, unlocked, it is my fault. Anyone posting sensitive photos or data to social media from said phone isn't right to do so, but I still must take the responsibility for it.

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 21):

So, if I find a phone it's totally cool if I post private information on Facebook...interesting concept! Because the person leaving it somewhere is responsible.

Nope it's not cool. Never said it was.
I still find it fascinating that you don't see how this was completely avoidable if you or your wife had the common sense to:

1: Take a moment to check you had EVERYTHING before de-boarding.
2: Lock the damn phone, just in case (like everyone else does!)

Common sense is no longer as common as it's name suggests!
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XAM2175
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:55 pm

Quoting Omp777x (Reply 18):
We have no indication that they even have the phone still, and even if they did, it is not a crime (at least to my knowledge) to use a lost electronic device.

In certain common-law jurisdictions there exists the crime of theft by finding, which is committed when a person takes possession of an object that seems to be abandoned but then fails to attempt to discover whether or not the object is merely lost or unattended.

So you can have an item that is simultaneously lost and stolen  
 
OMP777X
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:28 am

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 24):
In certain common-law jurisdictions there exists the crime of theft by finding, which is committed when a person takes possession of an object that seems to be abandoned but then fails to attempt to discover whether or not the object is merely lost or unattended.

So you can have an item that is simultaneously lost and stolen  

Interesting stuff!   I'm not familiar with that concept being in play when it comes to abandoned unlocked cell phones here in the States. I could see that being relevant if we were talking about an unlocked bicycle, or a used car left unattended with the keys sitting in the ignition, but not an unlocked cell phone. Still, jumping from "my wife lost her phone" to "help me find whoever stole my wife's phone", simply because a photo was uploaded, is quite the stretch no matter what part of the world we're talking about (not to mention LPDAL claiming that the person who found it "chose to live a life of crime", and that they deserve no protection of their rights because they found it).

Best,

OMP777X
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afcjets
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 21):
So, if I find a phone it's totally cool if I post private information on Facebook...interesting concept! Because the person leaving it somewhere is responsible.

Mod: Please close this thread!

Wait, you want a thread closed that you were curious enough to click on, read the original posting, all the comments, and then offer your opinion on the subject, but it should now be closed? Gotta love the irony of that!


I agree with many of you this is likely a lost phone versus a stolen one. It is however possible it was stolen IF it was taken while she was still in her seat, perhaps asleep, but it's more likely the phone was picked up after she deplaned because she left it at her seat. Nonetheless, not turning something in that you find does not legally constitute theft. Still, as anyone who was raised right knows, when you find something that doesn't belong to you, you turn it in, not take it for yourself, especially with something valuable and where it is so easy to locate the owner, as in the case of an unlocked cell phone. I have had people call my contacts before when I left my cell phone somewhere to say they found my phone.

To assume automatically the person sitting next to her took it though does not come without reasonable doubt, so of course UA should not reveal their identity to her, and as pointed out above, if it was found there after she deplaned versus stolen during flight, no crime occurred. Yes, the authorities could track down who posted to facebook and they would be a suspect, but in all likelihood they would say I found it, even if they stole it from her during the flight. I don't think it is a crime to use something you found but our laws could be changing in this digital age.

While I agree the wife is at fault, I think it is a bit hypocritical everyone coming down on her. How many people have not left their cell phone behind at either a restaurant, gym, store, or plane before and did not realize it until a bit later? And when you call your phone and someone answers to say I found your phone, or when you go back and the hostess or gym attendant says yes, we have it, aren't you happy and doesn't it make you feel good that most people are decent and turn things in, and don't you feel good when you find someone's phone or property and are able to get it back to the rightful owner?

One thing I am confused though is did the owner in fact get their phone back? If so, be grateful. I don't have an i-fone so I don't know if saying it was in TUS parking lot was from GPS or if it was found. I am also confused did they post HER pics to facebook or did the finder or thief take pics with the phone and post to THEIR facebook. Can someone clear this up for me? Only if they posted HER pics to facebook could I understand why they want to go after this person. If it wasn't her info posted and they got the phone back, be glad, because again, the phone could have been found. And while they should have turned it in instead of leaving it in the parking lot, a public shaming is not in order IMO, even though I think it is pretty rotten myself.

While I agree the f/a did not have the gate's phone number, she could have and should have been more helpful. If they were still on the ground she could have told the gate agent even if they were about to push back when they shut the door because gates can and do call each other all the time, and while we can't expect hot meals,free checked luggage anymore, and unfortunately, even service with a smile today is optional, a flight attendant should at least be somewhat emphatic when someone loses something valuable and respond with something better than “Sorry, don't have the gates number”

[Edited 2015-02-01 11:13:53]
 
OMP777X
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:35 pm

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 21):
Mod: Please close this thread!
Quoting AFCJETS (Reply 26):
Wait, you want a thread closed that you were curious enough to click on, read the original posting, all the comments, and then offer your opinion on the subject, but it should now be closed? Gotta love the irony of that!


The irony is even deeper than that, FRAIAD started the thread, and is the one looking for help!

Quoting AFCJETS (Reply 26):
I have had people call my contacts before when I left my cell phone somewhere to say they found my phone.

That is exactly what I have done when I've found phones. It isn't hard to figure out who they've called the most, and to call them to identify the phone's owner. The last iPhone I found was locked, and I was still able to find the owner because he called repeatedly with another person's phone, and I was able to use mine to call that number and track him down. Funny thing is that it turns out that the iPhone's owner was my old roommate!

Quoting AFCJETS (Reply 26):
While I agree the wife is at fault, I think it is a bit hypocritical everyone coming down on her. How many people have not left their cell phone behind at either a restaurant, gym, store, or plane before and did not realize it until a bit later? And when you call your phone and someone answers to say I found your phone, or when you go back and the hostess or gym attendant says yes, we have it, aren't you happy and doesn't it make you feel good that most people are decent and turn things in, and don't you feel good when you find someone's phone or property and are able to get it back to the rightful owner?

Agreed, IMHO everyone here hopes that would've been what had happened, mainly so we wouldn't have had to debate the particulars of this complicated situation on here, and so she'd still have her phone. I have dropped my cell phone out of my pocket, and luckily came back to find it still laying in the street where I dropped it, etc. I can comprehend someone losing a phone, although that isn't what I personally found to be questionable here. What I've found to be strange here was that someone would lose something, discover that someone else had picked it up and used it for some short period of time, and then label that person as a "thief", thereby trying to pin all of the blame on that person for the phone being lost, simply because they didn't help the owner reclaim the device (when we almost all agree that the wife is responsible for losing her phone). I would hope that the majority of folks out there would turn a cell phone into the lost and found at the airport and move on... but when it comes to cell phones, they are more prone to being abused before being returned because they do link to Facebook, personal photos, and have other sensitive personal details and info stored within (which is why I have mine locked to the point where you need my fingerprint to use it, unless you're trying to call 911). I hope for their sake that they had the insurance on the phone which covers lost device scenarios, so at least they're going to receive another iPhone after paying the replacement fee.

Best,

OMP777X
"Happy Flighting!"
 
afcjets
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:42 pm

Quoting Omp777x (Reply 27):
The irony is even deeper than that, FRAIAD started the thread, and is the one looking for help!

Ooops, I missed that part. It makes sense now.
 
AR385
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RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting Omp777x (Reply 18):
about holding this person who used it after the fact accountable, etc, but accountable for what exactly? For temporarily using a phone that they've found in public?

So temporarily using property that you know is not yours, just because you found it is OK?

Quoting Omp777x (Reply 18):
it is not a crime (at least to my knowledge) to use a lost electronic device.

Wrong. As long as it´s yours sure. It certainly is a crime if it is not yours and you know it.

Quoting Omp777x (Reply 18):
it seems as if there is someone who is trying to avoid having a frank discussion with their wife about the hardships of not keeping track of your own personal electronic devices by attempting to shift attention to the fact that there is proof that someone else had possessed it temporarily after the fact.

Sure. Because no one here EVER has left something behind. Anyway, that´s a different matter. Finding something that you know is not yours, and using it, is not Ok. I find fantastic cars in public around my neighborhood all the time. It´s probably ok to go joyriding in them. They are in public. They are unattended.

Quoting Omp777x (Reply 18):
I'm not saying the person who found it shouldn't have tried to help return it to her, or hand it off to the authorities (which is what I've done when finding a phone),

Somehow, given the above, I doubt, that. Furthermore, you seem to justify by some reasoning I´m still trying to understand that just because you found it unattended, and in public, you can use it as you please.

Why is it so hard for some people, a lot apparently, to take a minute to give the FA, the Lost and Found, the Police, an object they find in public without using them? Particularly when it is obvious that somebody has forgotten it. What is ok or justifiable about not doing that and using it?

I´ve had my wallet returned to my house 1 time before I knew that I had lost it. By the lady who found it. With all the cash, all the CCs, all the documents. Nothing missing. She wouldn´t accept a reward. Was I stupid for losing it? Sure. Did she do the right thing for returning it? Of course. But it was not something special. That´s the right thing to do.

[Edited 2015-02-01 14:54:25]
 
OMP777X
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:10 am

RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:16 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 29):

So temporarily using property that you know is not yours, just because you found it is OK?

I didn't say it was OK, I suggested it isn't illegal.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 29):
Wrong. As long as it´s yours sure. It certainly is a crime if it is not yours and you know it.

And what crime would that be? Use of lost property? Please cite a source of this crime written into U.S. law if you are in fact correct.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 29):
Sure. Because no one here EVER has left something behind. Anyway, that´s a different matter. Finding something that you know is not yours, and using it, is not Ok. I find fantastic cars in public around my neighborhood all the time. It´s probably ok to go joyriding in them. They are in public. They are unattended.

I stated that I have also lost my phone briefly. I also agreed that it is not "OK" to use the phone for anything other than using it to find the owner, but that is merely an opinion, not a law. I also used the abandoned car situation as a case where using lost property before attempting to locate an owner would not be okay.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 29):
Somehow, given the above, I doubt, that. Furthermore, you seem to justify by some reasoning I´m still trying to understand that just because you found it unattended, and in public, you can use it as you please.

Doubt away, I am not going to lose any sleep over it because I have always done the right thing when finding lost property. Also, for the last time, I don't condone that person on the flight who found it behaving in that way, I merely continue to believe that it is a poor decision ethically speaking, but not illegal.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 29):
I´ve had my wallet returned to my house 1 time before I knew that I had lost it. By the lady who found it. With all the cash, all the CCs, all the documents. Nothing missing. She wouldn´t accept a reward. Was I stupid for losing it? Sure. Did she do the right thing for returning it? Of course. But it was not something special. That´s the right thing to do.

Luckily I too have benefited from the kindness of a stranger just the same, and that has been my motivation to behave similarly when I've found other people's valuables. I believe in karma, and it guides me to behave appropriately in these circumstances. It sounds as if you do too.

Best,

OMP777X
"Happy Flighting!"
 
copter808
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:51 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 22):
Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
The flight attendant on our connecting flight was not willing or able to contact the gate where our flight to Houston

How would the FA have the number to the gate? It's not their job to clean up your mess anyway. Your wife was careless and it's ultimately her fault the phone is gone.
Quoting AFCJETS (Reply 26):
While I agree the f/a did not have the gate's phone number, she could have and should have been more helpful. If they were still on the ground she could have told the gate agent even if they were about to push back when they shut the door because gates can and do call each other all the time, and while we can't expect hot meals,free checked luggage anymore, and unfortunately, even service with a smile today is optional, a flight attendant should at least be somewhat emphatic when someone loses something valuable and respond with something better than “Sorry, don't have the gates number”

Yes, I agree that although the FA may not have had a responsibility to make an attempt to locate the phone, she most certainly could have done so as AFCJETS has said. And I personally feel offended that she didn't make the effort because she was a representative of United Airlines. Sometimes we need to go a bit beyond our job description and go the extra mile.
 
copter808
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:11 am

Quoting Omp777x (Reply 30):
I didn't say it was OK, I suggested it isn't illegal.

It IS illegal, at least in the state you live in.

Quoting Omp777x (Reply 30):
And what crime would that be? Use of lost property? Please cite a source of this crime written into U.S. law if you are in fact correct.

Although in the case cited, if I understand correctly, there may not have been any intent to permanently deprive the owner, depending on what the offender did with the phone. Throwing it away in a parking lot MAY be indicative of intending to deprive the owner. Throwing it away in a trash can would more clearly show intent.

Quoted from Illinois Revised Statutes:

(720 ILCS 5/16-2) (from Ch. 38, par. 16-2)
Sec. 16-2. Theft of lost or mislaid property. A person commits theft of lost or mislaid property when he or she obtains control over the property and:
(a) Knows or learns the identity of the owner or knows, or is aware of, or learns of a reasonable method of identifying the owner, and
(b) Fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to the owner, and
(c) Intends to deprive the owner permanently of the use or benefit of the property.
(d) Sentence.
Theft of lost or mislaid property where:
(1) the value does not exceed $500 is a Class B

misdemeanor;
(2) the value exceeds $500 but does not exceed

$10,000 is a Class A misdemeanor; and
(3) the value exceeds $10,000 is a Class 4 felony.
(Source: P.A. 97-597, eff. 1-1-12.)
 
OMP777X
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:10 am

RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:21 am

Quoting copter808 (Reply 32):
Although in the case cited, if I understand correctly, there may not have been any intent to permanently deprive the owner,


And that is why you should probably stick to knowing/applying laws solely on the basis of their hypothetical application to scenarios you've seen displayed here on the internet. Find me one police department let alone a single prosecutor in this country who is interested in finding the person who found and used a lost phone, and then might have left it behind in a parking lot in Tuscon afterwards. Maybe you and LPDAL can pool together some of your leads and nab the "perp" with each other someday.

Best,

OMP777X
"Happy Flighting!"
 
copter808
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:48 pm

Quoting Omp777x (Reply 33):

And that is why you should probably stick to knowing/applying laws solely on the basis of their hypothetical application to scenarios you've seen displayed here on the internet. Find me one police department let alone a single prosecutor in this country who is interested in finding the person who found and used a lost phone, and then might have left it behind in a parking lot in Tuscon afterwards. Maybe you and LPDAL can pool together some of your leads and nab the "perp" with each other someday.

Did I miss something here? I specifically said in reply 11 that they would probably NOT recover or prosecute. They would likely only take a lost property report. No reason for LPDAL or myself to investigate it.

My quote of the ILCS was in reply that you weren't aware of any law against possession of lost/mislaid property. You asked what law and I told you.
 
OMP777X
Posts: 455
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:10 am

RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:35 am

Quoting copter808 (Reply 34):
My quote of the ILCS was in reply that you weren't aware of any law against possession of lost/mislaid property. You asked what law and I told you.

I apologize. It appears that I was the one who had missed something. Upon first glance it seemed to me that you were suggesting a law had been broken and that an investigation was in order. I see where you're coming from now. Yes, a lost property report is about all that would be in order here on this one. Sorry for the misguided remark.

Best,

OMP777X
"Happy Flighting!"
 
airtrainer
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:44 pm

RE: Finding Out Who Stole My Wife's Phone

Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:03 pm

Very interesting thread. But I will add something else in regard to that easy conclusion...

Quoting FRAIAD (Thread starter):
This leads me to the conclusion that the phone was taken by the passenger sitting in seat 19C on UA4650.


How can you be sure that the person who had 19C on his/her boarding pass actually sat in that seat ?
Life is short : eat dessert first !

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