Thomaas
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Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:53 am

Hey everyone, I'm wondering what is your opinion on the return of the tulip at UA. Do you think it'll come back in a future brand refresh or will they keep the former CO globe logo ?

For my part I think that their current logo is very non-descriptive. It looks like a clip-art from Word 98 although it does convey the global aspect of their business. I do think that they are making a much better use of colour than UA did as the shade of blue they're using is easily recognizable and is very present, therefore reinforcing the brand. I think that they won't have much choice but to bring back the tulip if they rebrand because of its long history and recognizability. I think it will be very difficult to keep the current livery looking fresh over the long-term because of the nature of the logo.
 
ordpark
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:07 am

There are legions of Legacy UA employees who would love to see it back...probably very doubtful....but there is always hope that if and when a new paint scheme comes along the tulip will be a part of it.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:19 am

I wouldn't rule it out. Companies have rebranded and brought back old logos and symbols before-in the airline industry Japan Airlines did this with the "crane circle" logo (i.e. did away with it then brought it back years later).

When the UAL/CO merger happened they specifically stated that the hybrid logo (CO globe and United titles) would be temporary and that at some point in the future a new livery would be designed. Its been 5 years and I believe the entire fleet has been repainted, so possibly if this happens maybe the tulip would come back. I personally think keeping the colors the same but putting a gold tulip on the tail instead of the globe would look stunning.
 
dc10lover
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:46 am

I so miss the Tulip with the orange, red and dark blue stripes. United use to be the best airline but it has fallen far. They use to be #1 in the United States, #1 in Seattle and #1 on the West Coast.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:09 am

The way I see it, the retention of the Globe was sort of a symbolic gesture of how UA and CO were integrated.

However, I imagine UA will rebrand officially within the next several years, so yes, I think it's possible we'll see the Tulip again.

Any livery UA had never stood up to a CO livery, but at least they'll be unique again. I hate UA   
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HAWKXP
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:16 am

I am from the UA side of the merger, however they did the best thing in keeping the name UNITED and dropping our beloved tulip and going with the cleaner CO globe.
 
tommy767
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:17 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 4):

Then why do you get so excited about UA related threads?

Nothing beats the UA rising blue livery. A shame it was shot down in favor of a damaged post Lorenzo livery
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Boeing778X
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:31 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):
Then why do you get so excited about UA related threads?

Because I always hoped things would change for the better with the combined airline. But, like UA was before, UA is now.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):
A shame it was shot down in favor of a damaged post Lorenzo livery

Does anyone know anything CO's history? Post-Lorenzo livery? Of course, you're tugging my chain!
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CONTACREW
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:33 am

[quote=tommy767,reply=6]Then why do you get so excited about UA related threads?


Yet you chime in whenever there's a UA related thread so what's the difference?
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Thomaas
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:34 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 4):
Any livery UA had never stood up to a CO livery, but at least they'll be unique again. I hate UA   
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):

Nothing beats the UA rising blue livery. A shame it was shot down in favor of a damaged post Lorenzo livery

I loved the last UA livery albeit not on 747s. It was modern and classy at the same time. I'm not particularly a fan of the battleship grey they had previously but overall I think that they had an excellent branding team. All we see now is reused CO stuff. I suspect that we'll see a new livery with the introduction of the A350 with the new J cabin. By that time UA will have enhanced its product across the board (Ejets, meals on regional flights, more mainline, etc.) so it would be a perfect opportunity to rebrand.
 
tommy767
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:38 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 7):

Yes. I know it was a niche overrated airline with 2 hubs and a pay for play marketing team that is partially responsible for why UAs customer service DOT rankings are in the toilet.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:57 am

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 9):
All we see now is reused CO stuff. I suspect that we'll see a new livery with the introduction of the A350 with the new J cabin.

With any luck, we will.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 10):
I know it was a niche overrated airline with 2 hubs and a pay for play marketing team that is partially responsible for why UAs customer service DOT rankings are in the toilet.

Okay, I can see you also never rode on CO, let alone know their history.

I'll pitch in.

CO was a 4 hub airline, not a 2 hub. Glad we could clear that up.
CO constantly won awards for customer satisfaction, including J.D. Power awards, and won Fortunes #1 airline for world's most admired companies, 6 consecutive years in a row.
CO's customer service was second to none, and that's from personal experience alone.
CO was one of the most resilient of any US airline.
CO took pride in having a clean, young and up-to-date fleet with the latest technology.

And I find it laughable that you'd bring up Frank Lorenzo, who actually destroyed a lot of airlines he touched. My counter argument is Glenn Tilton. Mister Tilton couldn't even bring his airline out of bankruptcy in the 8 years he ran UA, and as far as I'm concerned, the merger was his idea, seeing as he was an advocate for airline consolidation. US said no to his merger talks, and CO should of said no too.

It was key people such as Gordon Bethune who rocketed CO's presence in the 90s.

UA's DOT rankings and low quality rankings are a result of UA, no one elses.

I've been on United. Every single time I rode in filthy tired planes with broken AVODs, late departure times and cramped seats. But hey, at least a guy made a song about United!

Which is why I am a Continental fan. Always have, always will.

[Edited 2015-03-07 23:00:45]

[Edited 2015-03-07 23:07:10]
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UA444
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:14 am

I wear a tulip shirt from time to time and always receive positive comments and thumbs up from UA staff. I've even had one or two ex-CO employees tell me they liked the tulip better and were ready for a new livery. Smisek and can repaint planes and take down signs all he wants, as far as many of us are concerned, the great United Airlines will always have her beloved tulip at heart and he'll never take that away.

I have several United die-cast models, including the Gemini Jets 1/400 787 in Rising Blue livery. No CO planes on my mantle. Tulips alive and well in my house.

The tulip won't be coming back as long as the current leadership is in charge, but if there's a blessing about this merger, it's that the tulip has been spared from being associated with this current disaster. Hopefully she returns when a new management team comes to retake United's position as a leader in the industry and make her great again.
long live the tulip.

[Edited 2015-03-07 23:16:10]

[Edited 2015-03-07 23:17:19]

[Edited 2015-03-07 23:22:32]

[Edited 2015-03-07 23:43:58]
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:18 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 12):
Not worth arguing with a high schooler who believes the best burger in the entire world was served in Continental economy.

I'm actually offended by this comment. Thanks a lot    High Schooler. Ha!

Again, confirm before stating as fact. I'm actually a collage graduate. But that in itself should be irrelevant.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 12):
I have several United die-cast models, including the Gemini Jets 1/400 787 in Rising Blue livery.
There will never be a CO livery "UA" plane on my mantle. Tulips alive and well in my house.

...And Globes laden my collection!  Not a single Tulip to be found.

But it's nice to hear that someone else collects GJs. Check out Aeroclassics. They release some good stuff too  Wink

[Edited 2015-03-07 23:22:23]
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UA444
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:26 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
CO was one of the most resilient of any US airline.

So resilient, Smisek practically pleaded to Congress that they absolutely needed the merger.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
CO's customer service was second to none, and that's from personal experience alone.

Just like their burgers, right?

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
CO was a 4 hub airline, not a 2 hub. Glad we could clear that up.

Yeah, United was just itching to get a hold of Cleveland, Ohio and...Guam! #1 in the Marinara Islands!!!

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
CO took pride in having a clean, young and up-to-date fleet with the latest technology

So advanced, pay through your nose DirecTV, nothing on 735s, and a whopping ZERO planes with wifi nor any plans to install any in the near future. (and I'll grant that UA wasn't on the ball when it came to wifi either, but they still had 16 more planes with it than did CO)

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
CO constantly won awards for customer satisfaction, including J.D. Power awards, and won Fortunes #1 airline for world's most admired companies, 6 consecutive years in a row.

United won awards too. Mileage Plus was consistently ranked the best frequent flyer program and United's IPTE product and p.s won awards as well.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
UA's DOT rankings and low quality rankings are a result of UA, no one elses

You're right, United's #1 on-time ranking was their own doing. And losing it was CO's.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
It was key people such as Gordon Bethune who rocketed CO's presence in the 90s.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to do when you're literally at the bottom and have nowhere to go but up and have slashed your costs to the bone as a result of TWO bankruptcies

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
And I find it laughable that you'd bring up Frank Lorenzo, who actually destroyed a lot of airlines he touched

The irony being that had Lorenzo not actually bought CO, it was 100% going to go under.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
My counter argument is Glenn Tilton. Mister Tilton couldn't even bring his airline out of bankruptcy in the 8 years he ran UA,
UA was in bankruptcy a little bit over 3 years, not 8. And they still only have one Ch. 11 on record vs. somebody else's two....

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
and as far as I'm concerned, the merger was his idea, seeing as he was an advocate for airline consolidation. US said no to his merger talks, and CO should of said no too.

Several CEOs were in favor of consolidation, including Gordon Bethune. Tilton was just the most vocal about and it and he was right. And UA turned down US, twice.

[Edited 2015-03-07 23:29:42]
 
atct
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:37 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
Which is why I am a Continental fan. Always have, always will.

Don't worry, even though we're in the minority, you're not alone.

atct
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UA444
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:38 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):
Nothing beats the UA rising blue livery.

Love that livery. But Saul Bass Rainbow still edges it out  
 
iahcsr
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:54 am

A logo combining the globe and tulip together in some more current style would look good
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Thomaas
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:17 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
CO was one of the most resilient of any US airline.

If anything, UA had a brighter future ahead than CO. Although the airline might have had its struggles, it had a much more balanced network than CO did. You can talk all you want about the value of EWR and IAH but the airline would have been crushed by the competition a few years down the road. They knew that their only change at future prosperity was a merger. UA had IAD, ORD, DEN, SFO and LAX, a strong network to Europe and Asia as well as a true global presence, all of which CO did not have.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
CO took pride in having a clean, young and up-to-date fleet with the latest technology.

Are we talking about the same CO with the large ERJ145 fleet that flew many 2 hour + sectors ?

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
've been on United. Every single time I rode in filthy tired planes with broken AVODs, late departure times and cramped seats. But hey, at least a guy made a song about United!

Considering that most managers are PMCO ones, I don't think the UA side is to take all the blame on that one.
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:52 am

I would rather have the old Continental back. Loved to fly with CO , always ! Since they have merged they are as bad as UA used to be! This is only from my (Star Gold) point of view.
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FlyDeltaJetsATL
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:18 pm

Never say never.

I loved many of the old UA liveries with the Tulip and I wouldn't mind seeing it return - it is possible.

Having said that, the CO Globe / new UA livery has grown on me and I like it much better now than when I first saw it.

I will always fly United regardless of their livery and I have no doubt that most people feel the same.
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XAM2175
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJetsATL (Reply 20):
I will always fly United regardless of their livery and I have no doubt that most people feel the same.

I know this sort of thing is all subjective but the post-merger livery is the first one that actually makes me think that flying UA might be tolerable. Some of their older ones have been okay but dull, although the condition some of them got to towards the end was just shocking. The most recent pre-merger livery (Rising Blue, I believe), on the other hand, was to my eye downright hideous.

Could the tulip have survived alongside the globe? Possibly. To my mind though, the merged livery is the best-presented the UA fleet has looked externally in a long long time.
 
FlyDeltaJetsATL
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:28 pm

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 21):
Quoting FlyDeltaJetsATL (Reply 20):
I will always fly United regardless of their livery and I have no doubt that most people feel the same.

I know this sort of thing is all subjective but the post-merger livery is the first one that actually makes me think that flying UA might be tolerable. Some of their older ones have been okay but dull, although the condition some of them got to towards the end was just shocking. The most recent pre-merger livery (Rising Blue, I believe), on the other hand, was to my eye downright hideous.

Could the tulip have survived alongside the globe? Possibly. To my mind though, the merged livery is the best-presented the UA fleet has looked externally in a long long time.

By the way, when I said: "I will always fly United regardless of their livery and I have no doubt that most people feel the same." I should clarify that I meant that those who usually fly United will continue to do so regardless of the livery - obviously those that dislike United probably won't fly them anyway.

As for some of the old UA Tulip liveries, I really liked the white livery with the orange, red and blue stripe along the side, with my #2 United livery going to the next livery in their sequence - Battleship Grey. I agree about their 'Rising Blue' livery and I did not like it at all.
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777Jet
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJetsATL (Reply 22):
As for some of the old UA Tulip liveries, I really liked the white livery with the orange, red and blue stripe along the side,

That is probably my favourite UA livery. I think it was changed in around 1993 to the battleship grey livery, which I also liked  
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DualQual
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:11 am

New day. New UA thread. Same "stuff" from the usual suspects.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
opethfan
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:55 am

I find it absolutely hilarious that two airlines that had Saul Bass logos merged, and adopted the one logo that Bass didn't create. It should practically be a crime; the man was a genius and there's a reason so many of his logos are still in use today.
 
UA444
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:20 am

Quoting opethfan (Reply 25):

I've long looked for any words Bass may have said about that hideous globe, as he was alive when CO introduced it. A true shame that two great logos were replaced by the same pile of crap.
 
tommy767
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:08 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
Okay, I can see you also never rode on CO, let alone know their history.

Wow...

I'm a little older than you and had the unfortunate pleasure of having to ride with them many times in the late 1990s growing up in NJ.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
CO was a 4 hub airline, not a 2 hub. Glad we could clear that up.
CO constantly won awards for customer satisfaction, including J.D. Power awards, and won Fortunes #1 airline for world's most admired companies, 6 consecutive years in a row.
CO's customer service was second to none, and that's from personal experience alone.
CO was one of the most resilient of any US airline.
CO took pride in having a clean, young and up-to-date fleet with the latest technology.

1. CLE and GUM don't really count as real hubs.
2. Lot's of pay for play awards. Once you flew CO you realized they were no better than anyone else except you got a free 7/11 burger grade meal and more than likely a delayed flight on an ERJ.
3. Rarely experienced this. Usually met by disorganized or rude staff at the EWR hub.
4. Nope. That's why Smisek begged congress to let the merger happen.
5. Ok great. UA had a relatively young fleet as well. Now that they are merged, much of fleet is now old.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:56 am

The tulip had a great run and it was iconic. But in the last decade, it became associated with an airline that had a horrible reputation with horrible financials and public relations.

Let it die in peace.

The globe has also had a great run and shows the global nature of the airline itself and the business. But with the merger, it has also become tattered.

IMO the globe needs to be refreshed or retired completely for something else, IDK what though (perhaps a treble clef since they own Rhapsody in Blue?). But if they can't bring up something new, a globe is a good fall back, but a new globe, something that looked more like a globe with the continents on TWAs final livery.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 24):
New day. New UA thread. Same "stuff" from the usual suspects.

True that.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
csavel
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:09 am

I know I am in the minority here, so I will put on my flame retardant suit, but I thought the United tulip logo was hideous. Always did even when it came out in oh, about '78 I think.

To me it looked like a W. Even though I sort of knew it was supposed to be a stylized U, it still looked like a W. Every time I saw a tail I thought W, no wait it is supposed to be a U. When in the mid-90s I first heard an aviation writer refer to it as 'tulip' logo I thought. "I want whatever the hell that guy is smoking!"

And I am not a guy who likes what they call "the generic looking swooshy thing." Chacun a son gout!

[Edited 2015-03-09 20:20:09]
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BC77008
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:27 pm

The globe is iconic and fitting for a global carrier. And now that it has flown for 2 (practically 3) large carriers it is arguably the most storied logo to ever grace our skies. It's flown for Continental, United and an almost identical globe flies for Copa. The logo itself will be around for many years to come. I can certainly see UA updating their livery eventually but this will not mean a change in logo.
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TWA772LR
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:33 pm

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 30):
The globe is iconic and fitting for a global carrier.

If you are speaking in generalities, then yes. PanAm and TWA have had the globe in their liveries as well.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Thomaas
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:18 am

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 30):

The globe is iconic and fitting for a global carrier. And now that it has flown for 2 (practically 3) large carriers it is arguably the most storied logo to ever grace our skies. It's flown for Continental, United and an almost identical globe flies for Copa. The logo itself will be around for many years to come. I can certainly see UA updating their livery eventually but this will not mean a change in logo.

LOL ! The logo is far from anything iconic. For anything worth mentioning, you'll have to look at the QF kangaroo, the old AA letters and eagle, the LH crane, the KLM crown, PAN AM's globe, SAS letters or even the old IB logo. UA's globe belongs nowhere near.
 
copter808
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RE: Will We Ever See The Tulip Again?

Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:23 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 7):
Does anyone know anything CO's history?
Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 11):
CO was a 4 hub airline, not a 2 hub. Glad we could clear that up.
CO constantly won awards for customer satisfaction, including J.D. Power awards, and won Fortunes #1 airline for world's most admired companies, 6 consecutive years in a row.
CO's customer service was second to none, and that's from personal experience alone.
CO was one of the most resilient of any US airline.
CO took pride in having a clean, young and up-to-date fleet with the latest technology.

And BOTH were founded by Walter Varney. Maybe the new name should have been Varney ReUNITED.

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