DL Overbooking, Offering $1300 Compensation

TK787 · Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:17 pm

Hello there,
My wife is about to get on the plane; JFK-AUS, and she says the flight is way overbooked. DL is offering $1300 to volunteers. There are about 56 people on the upgrade list. All trying to get to South by SouthWest Festival, I guess.
Is this $1300 common? Could it be possible to up-gauge?
Thanks.

29erUSA187 · Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:20 pm

I don't know about the situation exactly, but I assume that offering $1300 is quite rare. I usually just get a voucher

BTW, this should have been posted in Travel, Polls & Prefs

32andBelow · Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:22 pm

Isn't this federally mandated? It is a multiple of ticket price I believe

northwestEWR · Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:23 pm

Delta is allowed to offer up to $1300 in credit vouchers. That's what they're doing--trying for volunteers.

nws2002 · Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:28 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):
Isn't this federally mandated? It is a multiple of ticket price I believe

The for involuntary denied boardings. In this case they are soliciting volunteers and DL can offer whatever compensation they want for that. Federal regulations also require them to attempt to find volunteers before IVDB anyone.

Osubuckeyes · Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:39 pm

I've received up to $1000 in VDB, have heard instances of them offering $1500, but nothing higher than that. Typically the more overbooked they are or the longer until the next flight the more they offer. If you accept the kiosk solicitation they offer you that amount i believe $800 is the max on that for domestic flights.

PA110 · Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:16 pm

This is déjà vue all over again. Didn't they screw up badly last year as well? SXSW is an annual event. This should be archived in their inventory/availability modeling.

UALFAson · Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:39 pm

The upgrade list doesn't have any correlation to the need for volunteers. Most UA hub-to-hub flights have 50-60-person upgrade lists. I have been on flights where they "only" need 1 or 2 volunteers and can't even get those. Like those, this is a flight where the majority of people on it need/want to get to their destination on time and aren't going to inconvenience themselves for 200 bucks.

But crazy to think that volunteering on a 3-ish hour domestic flight could pay for you to fly from the U.S. to Australia. Wow!

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 5):
I've received up to $1000 in VDB, have heard instances of them offering $1500, but nothing higher than that.

The most I've heard offered was $1000 a couple of months ago on the Monday morning CVG-XNA P&G-Walmart Express.

INFINITI329 · Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:39 pm

What equipment are they running?

audidudi · Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 8):

It's being operated by a B738.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL482

INFINITI329 · Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:54 am

Quoting audidudi (Reply 9):
It's being operated by a B738

Seems like poor planning on DL's part. Given that is SXSW this should have been at least a 757

NorthstarBoy · Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:55 am

I was on an oversold Lhr-Iad once during the days when 747-100s plied the atlantic with UA. UA offered to rebook in business class on the Newark flight, plus 2 free tickets anywhere in the world they flew, plus I believe it was a 5000 dollar travel credit.

Sadly, they ended up not needing our seats as we were 3 people traveling together with 1 in smoking and 2 in non-smoking. When I got on the plane and discovered that the Lhr-Ewr flight was operating with a 747SP, well, I was depressed.

jetwet1 · Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:56 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 7):
But crazy to think that volunteering on a 3-ish hour domestic flight could pay for you to fly from the U.S. to Australia. Wow!

true, but the only way I touch that is on a confirmed booking for the next flight or route me through ATL, no going on a stand by list.

[Edited 2015-03-12 17:57:15]

tlecam · Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:58 am

My delta flight from CMH-BOS was offering the same
Tonight - $1300.So was CMH-DTW.

zippyjet · Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:41 am

What happened last year with DL and their AUS flights? Putting on the memory cap last year we still were plagued with crappy winter weather in the Eastern half of the USA. I believe it was the last hurrah messy storm so with all the delays and cancellations this added fuel to the fire. So far in my career with WN I've never heard of an across the board offer to volunteer your seat for four figures. Now, if you volunteered and your ticket was a full fare affair you'd get in a travel voucher that one way portion plus $100 or $300 depending on when we got you out to your destination. And that would be only for the portion/leg of the actual flight. Example BUF-BWI-AUS. If you volunteered and paid $220 for the leg from BWI-AUS

thegoldenargosy · Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:43 am

I'm a former DL agent. The typical maximum is $400 for volunteering. However denied boarding can be expensive. I once had to write a check for $1,300 for a pax denied boarding LGA-BNA.

northwestEWR · Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:45 am

Voluntary can go up to $1300 with Delta. United's max was $450 over the summer with supervisor approval. Otherwise $300.

Involuntary is a federal regulation and the same on all domestic airlines. It's calculated based on the fare you paid. The maximum is $1300 and that's usually what it ended up being. This is not a voucher. This is cash in the form of a check.

N1120A · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:02 am

DL is clearly trying to keep their IDB numbers down, and replacing it with higher breakage VDBs. Even offering MORE than the IDB max is advantageous. The CO people now at UA are infamous for their high IDB rates.

Pyrex · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:11 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 3):

Delta is allowed to offer up to $1300 in credit vouchers. That's what they're doing--trying for volunteers.

Is this money you can actually use for flights or just like the Delta SkyMiles that are basically worthless because you can never find a flight with them anyway?

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 15):
However denied boarding can be expensive

Just out of curiosity, how expensive?

N1120A · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:16 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
Is this money you can actually use for flights or just like the Delta SkyMiles that are basically worthless because you can never find a flight with them anyway?

Not SkyPesos but an actual form of payment that is the same as cash or card. DB compensation is a form of payment, not a "free" flight. It pays for the fare and the taxes. Basically, its like a gift certificate, only it does allow for expiration.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
Just out of curiosity, how expensive?

Refund, plus twice the fare paid, with a max of $1300 on domestic, plus next best routing.

dmt52 · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:18 am

Last week I was on a Delta flight DTW-BDL where they offered $1300 for volunteers.

lpdal · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:24 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
Is this money you can actually use for flights or just like the Delta SkyMiles that are basically worthless because you can never find a flight with them anyway?

It's a voucher that can be used to purchase flights, and does pay for taxes / fees as well (provided the voucher is worth enough to cover the cost of the ticket). Sometimes, they'll email it to you, other times, they'll give it to you on a blank boarding pass. I don't have a Delta one readily available, but all three majors (four if you count US, I suppose) pretty much do it the same way. As an example, here is one United issued me a week back;

LPDAL's Photostream on Flickr - Photo Sharing

It's not cash, but it does cover taxes and fees for any ticket bought on the airline, in this case United. You just enter the PIN and promotion number at checkout, and it will subtract the amount of the voucher from the ticket total.

Hope this explains it,

-LPDAL

fanoftristars · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:28 am

A friend of mine was on a Delta Connection flight about two weeks ago and they were offering $1300 SLC-AUS. I guess that's the new normal now.

beau222 · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:37 am

They were overbooked on a CR900 two weeks ago VPS-ATL and needed 5 volunteers. Started out at 800 and finally ended at 1000.00 voucher and that included a free hotel to overnight and depart the next day. They still needed 3 more at departure but no one else took them up on it. The flight actually ended up taking a mechanical when they discovered the acft was missing 6 screws along the fuselage down by the fuel panel.

TW870 · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:38 am

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 22):

A friend of mine was on a Delta Connection flight about two weeks ago and they were offering $1300 SLC-AUS.

I think north of $1000 is pretty rare still, and like the other posters said is most likely the result of bad rebooking options.

I am not at all surprised about JFK-AUS, though, as JFK VDB compensation is often high because of so many international connections who don't want to rebook on their domestic connections. They just want to get home or to their final destination. I was on an A319 a couple of years ago MSP-JFK and they quickly bid up the VDB compensation over the cabin PA for one seat from $500 to $1200. I was bound for FCO, and the person next do me had ADD as a final destination. Both of us laughed because the money sounded great, but were not about to interrupt our trips. Thus it went up and up in hundred dollar increments.

northwestEWR · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:45 am

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 22):

The answer is it depends. If you're in an outstation and there's only one gate agent and it's a turn under an hour.... some go straight for the $1300 because they don't have time to play the increase game. Just go for the max which you'll probably have to do anyway so you don't end up with invols. Those are not fun.

At the hubs when you have two or more gate agents you can afford to play the game.

N104UA · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:48 am

I got a $1000 on LAS-SFO in November, they downgraded an A320 to an A319, 15 people or so took it. I had never heard it go that high. They could rebook me the next day confirmed but was able to be a revenue standby for the next flight (an hour later) and got on. However if it is ever more than $500 (or the price I paid for my ticket) I will take it.

N353SK · Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:49 am

I think it's a pretty smart last resort by Delta. If they involuntary deny somebody they'll probably have to write him a check for $1,300 anyways. They might as well see if they can get a volunteer first.

Pyrex · Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:06 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
efund, plus twice the fare paid, with a max of $1300 on domestic, plus next best routing.

Thanks. And does the airline have any discretion on who they bump (i.e., cheapest tickets first) or do they have to do it in order of check-in?

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 21):
Hope this explains it,

It does, thank you very much.

flynhi808 · Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:10 am

Seems like bad planning on DL's part. For something as big as South by SouthWest they should of had bigger equipment

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
SkyPesos

never heard that before...

northwestEWR · Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:18 am

Quoting N353SK (Reply 27):

I think it's a pretty smart last resort by Delta. If they involuntary deny somebody they'll probably have to write him a check for $1,300 anyways. They might as well see if they can get a volunteer first.

Absolutely! Like gift cards, a decent percentage of vouchers go unused. And the cost of a voucher to DL is not the face value. They're already flying the flight, it's essentially the same cost as a nonrev--small. Whereas cash is cash.

doug_or · Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 30):
They're already flying the flight, it's essentially the same cost as a nonrev--sma

A non rev only gets on if there is no one to buy the seat. Using VDB compensation to purchase a seat means it is no longer available to sell to others. No relation.

INFINITI329 · Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:29 am

Quoting N104UA (Reply 26):
I got a $1000 on LAS-SFO in November, they downgraded an A320 to an A319, 15 people or so took it. I had never heard it go that high. They could rebook me the next day confirmed but was able to be a revenue standby for the next flight (an hour later) and got on. However if it is ever more than $500 (or the price I paid for my ticket) I will take it.

Thats $13,000 that sounds like more than what is cost to operate the flight jeez

32andBelow · Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:32 am

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 32):
Thats $13,000 that sounds like more than what is cost to operate the flight jeez

It's just vouchers...many of the seats may never have been filled.

northwestEWR · Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:40 am

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 31):

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 30):
They're already flying the flight, it's essentially the same cost as a nonrev--sma

A non rev only gets on if there is no one to buy the seat. Using VDB compensation to purchase a seat means it is no longer available to sell to others. No relation.

Well that's true. But as 32andbelow just pointed out, if they don't sell the seat, then it's essentially the same. Only if they put a volunteer in a seat that they otherwise would've sold is it costing them anything.

Volunteer is a lot cheaper despite face value than cash. Cash is cash.

catiii · Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 15):

Headed to FLL from NYC over MLK weekend and they started at $600. Maybe they raised the limit?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):

Same story as above, and they were offering it in Delta Dollars, and Amex prepaid gift card, and other options.

N1120A · Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:04 am

Quoting dmt52 (Reply 20):
Last week I was on a Delta flight DTW-BDL where they offered $1300 for volunteers.

Quoting fanoftristars (Reply 22):
A friend of mine was on a Delta Connection flight about two weeks ago and they were offering $1300 SLC-AUS. I guess that's the new normal now.

I'm guessing they were looking at a major chance of IDBs.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 28):
Thanks. And does the airline have any discretion on who they bump (i.e., cheapest tickets first) or do they have to do it in order of check-in?

Yes, they do, but its not based on ticket price. Elites and premium cabin are the least likely to get IDBd. Late check-ins and late boardings are the most, along with people who don't have pre-assigned seats.

Quoting flynhi808 (Reply 29):
never heard that before...

Really? Its been around for a decade.

Quoting doug_Or (Reply 31):
A non rev only gets on if there is no one to buy the seat. Using VDB compensation to purchase a seat means it is no longer available to sell to others. No relation.

The cost is still rather negligible.

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 34):

Volunteer is a lot cheaper despite face value than cash. Cash is cash.

Absolutely. Especially when you factor in DOT reporting requirements and potential fines.

Quoting catiii (Reply 35):
Same story as above, and they were offering it in Delta Dollars, and Amex prepaid gift card, and other options.

The AMEX one is shocking, as it is more likely to get used and if the person getting it is a resident of California or another state with a similar law, it can never expire.

Quoting catiii (Reply 35):
Headed to FLL from NYC over MLK weekend and they started at $600. Maybe they raised the limit?

Maybe the DOT has sent out a guidance that they are going to be cracking down on IDBs? I think UA has been upping their offers lately as well.

815Oceanic · Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:24 am

Can you ask for miles instead of vouchers? $1000 equivalent would surely yield you tens of thousands of points?

northwestEWR · Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 28):

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
efund, plus twice the fare paid, with a max of $1300 on domestic, plus next best routing.

Thanks. And does the airline have any discretion on who they bump (i.e., cheapest tickets first) or do they have to do it in order of check-in?

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 21):
Hope this explains it,

It does, thank you very much.

The way we did it at United was by loyalty, ease of reaccomodation and then fare class.
In order of least likely to be IDB'd or even put on the oversale list.
-Premium classes
-Elite members
-Already IROP'd pax from UA/UAX
-Y/B/M fares
-International itineraries
-Limited service to the destination (2x CRJ per day for example)
-Multistop itineraries
-Passengers who's reaccomodation flight will also be oversold
-Mileageplus members
-Order of descending fare class (M and below, lowest being most likely to be on the list)
-Passengers without a checked bag (without a bag they're easier to move around and send to other airlines)
-Late checkins
-Anyone without a seat assignment
-Other airline IROP pax (send them back to the other airline)

So if you're on a cheap fare, you don't have a seat assignment and you checked in late without a checked bag.... Good luck!

Quoting 815Oceanic (Reply 37):

Can you ask for miles instead of vouchers? $1000 equivalent would surely yield you tens of thousands of points?

At United, we had the option to offer upgrades, vouchers, miles or a combination. The amount of miles was usually pretty low. 10,000 being the highest I remember giving.

[Edited 2015-03-12 21:28:41]

blueflyer · Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:55 am

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 10):
Seems like poor planning on DL's part. Given that is SXSW this should have been at least a 757

And then what? Easy to write a particular segment ought to be upgauged, but it's not that simple. For one thing, it's never just one flight that gets upgauged, but at the very least two since the aircraft will obviously turn around and operate another flight, for which it is probably bigger than necessary. Will the outbound flight be enough to return the aircraft to its normal rotation? If not, how many more flights will it have to operate? And where is that aircraft pulled from? How many flights will need to be downgauged in exchange?

Upgauging one segment may mean excess capacity and lost revenue on several other segments. That upgauge must generate a very significant revenue increase on a single segment to be worth it.

N104UA · Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:12 am

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 32):
Quoting N104UA (Reply 26):
I got a $1000 on LAS-SFO in November, they downgraded an A320 to an A319, 15 people or so took it. I had never heard it go that high. They could rebook me the next day confirmed but was able to be a revenue standby for the next flight (an hour later) and got on. However if it is ever more than $500 (or the price I paid for my ticket) I will take it.

Thats $13,000 that sounds like more than what is cost to operate the flight jeez

They also included a hotel and meal voucher, so it would be much higher. But as many people have said, a bunch of the certs go unused, they are paper tickets essentially, first thing I made sure to do was take a pic of it and back it up in the cloud.

Quoting catiii (Reply 35):
Headed to FLL from NYC over MLK weekend and they started at $600. Maybe they raised the limit?

They usually start low ($300-$400 on UA) then increase, I have seen a start at $300 and no one take until $700. Most frequent fliers know that they just increase until they find someone to take it.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Quoting doug_Or (Reply 31):
A non rev only gets on if there is no one to buy the seat. Using VDB compensation to purchase a seat means it is no longer available to sell to others. No relation.

The cost is still rather negligible.

It is more similar to offering an award ticket (although this way the airline technically pays the taxes). Some airlines also charge non-revs for certain flights or classes so they could actually make more money off a non-rev on that flight.

Quoting 815Oceanic (Reply 37):
Can you ask for miles instead of vouchers? $1000 equivalent would surely yield you tens of thousands of points?

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 38):
Quoting 815Oceanic (Reply 37):

Can you ask for miles instead of vouchers? $1000 equivalent would surely yield you tens of thousands of points?

At United, we had the option to offer upgrades, vouchers, miles or a combination. The amount of miles was usually pretty low. 10,000 being the highest I remember giving.

I don't know why anyone would take 10,000 miles over $1000. $1000 is enough to get to Hawaii or anywhere domestic (usually $1000 would get you First Class if you book early enough) and often to Europe or South America, even $300 will get you on most flights up to 4 hours. However 10,000 miles isn't even enough for a one way coach award ticket. Now if they would give me 100,000 miles that would be different story.

Context · Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:12 am

I'm in a hotel in SLC right now because I took the offer for a $1000 voucher plus an upgrade for the 12 hour delay. I had a confirmed seat on DL 2287 but they were offering $1300 to those who were being denied boarding. The trouble in SLC is the Adobe conference is just wrapping up and they couldn't offer a room so I had to book my own hotel. Fortunately a corporate-negotiated rate was available to me through my company!

thaiflyer · Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:19 am

1300 sounds good off-course but i would only interested in cash money.
Vouchers with a possible expire date are not really tempting.

N1120A · Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:25 am

Quoting 815Oceanic (Reply 37):
Can you ask for miles instead of vouchers? $1000 equivalent would surely yield you tens of thousands of points?

$1000 is worth WAY more than 10,000 miles. In classic 2 CPM, its worth at least 50,000 miles. That said, you can't upgrade a mileage ticket (usually) and you can't earn miles on one. No thanks. Give me the voucher.

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 42):
1300 sounds good off-course but i would only interested in cash money.
Vouchers with a possible expire date are not really tempting.

If one flies frequently, and on their own dime, a voucher is like cash money.

FlyingHollander · Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:27 am

We had a similar offer once, before a ATL-AMS flight. Unfortunately, we didn't accept. Just as we were starting to fly over the Atlantic the captain announced we would have to land at JFK because of a lack of running water. After hours on the tarmac we we're finally allowed to disembark en spend the night on airport benches. If I had the spare time I would definitely take a comparable offer in the future.

antoniemey · Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:32 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
The CO people now at UA are infamous for their high IDB rates.

Likely because current UA is infamous for stupidly-high overbookings.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 28):
Thanks. And does the airline have any discretion on who they bump (i.e., cheapest tickets first) or do they have to do it in order of check-in?

Local policy here is whoever gets stuck without a seat assignment, but your mileage will vary.

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 34):
Volunteer is a lot cheaper despite face value than cash. Cash is cash.

A lot of people will forget to redeem the voucher, too.

rta · Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:33 am

Quoting N104UA (Reply 40):
They usually start low ($300-$400 on UA) then increase, I have seen a start at $300 and no one take until $700.

I've seen UA start at $200 on an FLL-ORD flight I was taking.

[Edited 2015-03-12 23:34:34]

ericm2031 · Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:41 am

I've never heard of $1300, but if a plane downgrades, you might as well give it a shot. It's better than writing a $1300 check...at least that $1300 will end back in DL's hands and not another airline. In the end, airlines usually make more money off of voluntary denied boardings then what they spend on them as there is usually a fare difference after the voucher is used up, so that's just pure profit. United bumped up there compensation to $500 voluntary, anything higher requires supervisor approval. Alaska has a $300 flat rate. I've sometimes seen US go up towards $1,000 even if they are only needing 1 or 2 volunteers, but it's all determined by the computer.

antoniemey · Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:42 am

Quoting rta (Reply 46):
I've seen UA start at $200 on an FLL-ORD flight I was taking.

policy is start at $150 and top out at $500 in most cases domestic. In reality, the kiosk shows the $150, and the gate agent starts with a number more likely to get a bite, depending on how hard they think it will be to rebook the number of people they need.

AR385 · Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:05 am

So I am either outdated or confused. Can someone explain to me the following:

I was under the impression that the airline had to ask for volunteers when there was overbooking, but if after offering a certain amount of money there were not enough volunteers, they could start kicking passengers out going by non-revs first and then cheapest fares.

Is this not the case anymore? Do they now have to offer money until enough passengers leave voluntarily? $1,300 USD seems an awful lot of money.

I agree that if this happened to them last year for the same event, they could have foreseen it. Someone dropped the ball.

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