Birdwatching
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Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:35 pm

Welcome, enthusiasts of classic and rare airliners, to the Q2 of 2015 thread! It's April now and our old Q1 thread is at 112 replies, so we'll continue here.

I've summarized the main facts from the last 30 posts in the last thread in this first post, please continue the discussion below and add your own information, ideas and findings. Please forgive me as I have copy/pasted some info below without mentioning the original posters, but they're all from the last thread.

ERJ-140: Only in service with American Eagle. Possibly JetsGo of Australia will be putting 3 of these into service in the future.

CRJ-705: (low seat-count -900s) Only 16 in service with Air Canada.

Metroliner: OSL-VDB on Air Norway (operated by North Flying of Denmark)

Do328 prop: Best chance is on SkyWork of Switzerland, hubbing in Berne. You can get decent deals on one-stop european flights (XXX-BRN-XXX)

Do328 Jet: On several routes out of Billund BLL, operated by SunAir of Scandinavia for British Airways. Fares are expensive, but very cheap if booked on BA Avios or AA AAdvantage miles.

Jetstream 31 / 32: Same as above, Sun Air of Scandinavia, some routes out of Billund, like DUS for example.

MD87: Danish Air Transport between Copenhagen and Karup, beginning 29th of March. http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/ne...vates-sole-md-87-for-karup-flights

MD-81: the last few are flying with Laser in Venezuela

Saab 2000: still easy in Europe. Golden Air, Carpatair, Eastern Airways, Darwin Airlines, Polet Airlines

777-300 (non-ER): in Japan with JL or NH

CRJ-100: a few left in Canada flying with Air Canada Express affiliates, Air France/HOP has a few, SkyWest has a few left--operating for AA, DL and UA

Beechcraft 400: New (virtual) airline OneJet is flying scheduled services IND-MKE with Hawker Beechcraft 400 starting in April: http://ch-aviation.com/portal/news/3...tions-from-indianapolis-next-month

IL-96: Cubana from HAV to ORY and MAD

Soren   
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
aloges
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:23 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter):
Saab 2000

Is it "either Sweden or Scotland" for the Saab 340 in Europe?

For those who like small props: Chalair is expanding with (IIRC) their Beech 1900s. It was mentioned here:
German Aviation Thread - Part 3 (by American 767 Jan 28 2015 in Civil Aviation)
and their route map looks promising: http://www.chalair.eu/index.php/en/
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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Loran
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:25 pm

Two updates which were discussed in the previous Q1 thread:

- F-28-1000: Still flies twice-weekly the Argentina multi-stop flight. Called LADE last week and the F-28 is confirmed to be in service. Their website also has an up-to-date schedule. I will try this in early May.

- CASA 212-100: TAM Bolivia still flies one of their two airframes in the fleet ex-Trinidad. It is also a multi-stop flight into the Bolivian lowlands. Also they still fly 737-200s.

Since the Sri Lanka Aviation Tour is now cancelled, does anyone have any info on the following types in scheduled services?
- Mi-17
- Y-12

Thanks,
Loran
703 717 727 732-9 747 757 767 777 787 AB2/6 310 318-321 330 340 359 380 D8M D91/3/5 D1C M11 M81-90 L10 IL1/8/6/7/W/9/4 TU3/5/2 YK4/2
 
classicjets
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:06 pm

Quoting Loran (Reply 2):
Y-12

In the PRC, China Flying Dragon General Aviation Services flies multiple daily services between Dalian (DLC) and Changhai Island and some other routes ex-DLC. It's a "buy your ticket at the airport the day you fly" kind of operation, but very reasonably priced.

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Photo © fxanning



Also would like to know:
-Any solid ideas on how long Air North HS-748 will operate?
-What is interesting in Cuba these days besides IL-96 and An-158? Are Mil-8 and An-26 still possible?
-Anyone know anything about the Y-5 (An-2) operators in China? Anything else interesting and flyable in the country?
-Is YS-11 totally dead? Embraer 110 still doable in Caribbean?

Glad this thread has been so popular lately  
 
b2319
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:17 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter):
777-300 (non-ER): in Japan with JL or NH

Also, with Cathay Pacific; 12 birds according to Airfleets.net.

Not wishing to take this off topic, just three CX passenger 744s left. I recently got a lucky substitution just before Chinese New year from PVG to HKG; should have been an A333. Recent destinations for the remaining three are Tokyo, Sapporo, Seoul, Osaka, Manila, Denpasar, Beijing and Taipei. (Looks like B-HKU, listed as active on Airfleets.net, hasn't flown in a while).

Regards

B-2319
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:46 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter):
Metroliner:

Add AKL-WHK to the list Air Chathams to start flying the route using a mix of Metroliner/CV580/DC3

Quoting Loran (Reply 2):
Y-12

Fiji and Vanuatu both used to have these. There are MA60s flying around TBU too.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ALexeu
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:40 pm

According to flightradar24, Flybe is flying LCY-DUB with S2000. Any more info on this, is it going to be permanent for now?

[Edited 2015-03-31 14:41:10]
 
Il62Mdakar
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:08 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter):
Saab 2000: still easy in Europe. Golden Air, Carpatair, Eastern Airways, Darwin Airlines, Polet Airlines

Unfortunately Polet stop operations last year. Another easy Sb2000 flight in Europe is BA operated by Eastern from LCY to DUS and IOM. Quite reasonable with or without miles. Flew them to RTM last year. Nice plane.

Will updated a few things on Russia if I get time on the weekend.
 
opticalilyushin
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:56 pm

The loganair S2000 currently operates LCY - ABZ and DUB, and has also started a Sunday ABZ-BHD, in lieu of the usual Dash 8 that day
 
LX138
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:11 pm

Quoting IL62Mdakar (Reply 7):
Sb2000 flight in Europe is BA operated by Eastern from LCY to DUS and IOM.

BA are also flying them LCY-EDI on the odd service now too.

Just took the Trislander today with GR - as good an aviation experience you could ever imagine. No sign of full retirement plans just yet it seems!
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YVRLTN
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:07 am

Quoting classicjets (Reply 3):
-Any solid ideas on how long Air North HS-748 will operate?

Heard the ATR replacement will arrive "soon" but some will be retained for charters this year. I guess that means the usual YVR fishing charters. Have not heard of any ATR arrivals yet.

I am going to try and arrange an enthusiast flight this year.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
opticalilyushin
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:03 am

According to the pilots on my flight in Feb it would be in the next couple of months, as they specifically mentioned getting the ATR72 for capacity, but apparantly it has been 'a month or two' for quite a while!
 
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TupolevTu154
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:26 pm

Unfortunately some bad news from western Russia. Rossiya apparently have plans to withdraw all their Antonov 148's. There was a chance a couple of friends and I were going to try and catch one MSQ-LED in June however they no longer appear on any schedules anywhere. Does anybody have more information?
 
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airbuseric
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:50 pm

The very rare BAe 146-100A is active again but operating irregular in Philippines with Magnum Air for Skyjet. It seems to encounter a lot of technical issues/delays, cancellations are very common and the airline is not really helpful with refunds/rebooking etc. A lot of bla bla...
Anyhow, it does operate and I was able to catch it on USU-MNL last week. I decided to buy my ticket at the check-in desk just to be sure to avoid issues when the plane would go tech.

Any other 146-100 operators out there in (passenger) service?
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
KPWMSpotter
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:17 pm

I just flew OneJet's inaugural MKE-IND flight on the Beechjet (trip report to follow shortly). It was a fun little flight, interesting mix of airline and corporate.

One interesting tidbit I learned yesterday: for the first two months of service they're only selling four of the seven seats onboard (they're still trying to figure out where exactly they'll put the baggage for seven people). If you want a more intimate corporate flight, book now before they start cramming them in like sardines. Seven on a Beechjet will be very, very tight.
I reject your reality and substitute my own...
 
MH017
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:24 pm

Does TAG still operate their Bandits on the GUA-FRS v.v. flights ?
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
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Loran
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:59 am

Quoting TupolevTu154 (Reply 12):
Unfortunately some bad news from western Russia. Rossiya apparently have plans to withdraw all their Antonov 148's. There was a chance a couple of friends and I were going to try and catch one MSQ-LED in June however they no longer appear on any schedules anywhere. Does anybody have more information?

Just saw the topic in the civil aviation forum. I still miss the An-148 after several failed attempts   

Coincidently I had looked into the Rossiya schedules yesterday for a flight next weekend without knowing about the ops suspension, and indeed they do not appear on the SU booking engine any more, however ther GDS timetable still shows them to KBP, TXL, MSQ, etc.

Checking the flights against FR24, it seems they still fly regularly except one airframe (02 or 03 it was). I was going to book myself into one next week from LED to KBP, but got irritated when I saw A319/A320 on the SU booking engine.

I will continue to monitor the SU equipment type shown against the aircraft operating as per FR24 and probably take the risk. KBP seems to be quite safe, MSQ also.

I was wondering if there is any official date from SU/FV for ops suspension?

Regards,
Loran
703 717 727 732-9 747 757 767 777 787 AB2/6 310 318-321 330 340 359 380 D8M D91/3/5 D1C M11 M81-90 L10 IL1/8/6/7/W/9/4 TU3/5/2 YK4/2
 
visualapproach
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Does anyone know the routes of Air North's and First Air Boeing B737-200s (any variation).... I can see YZF-YEG on First Air but are there many others?
 
opticalilyushin
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:51 pm

Be careful if you book this route with First Air, their Edmonton-Yellowknife-Norman Wells-Inuvik service is now mostly flown on a Summit Air RJ85.

As for Air North, it is only used a backup, but the 737-400 and 500 is still a nice catch these days.

Best bet is to book Canadian North, their website will tell you if you are on a 737-200 or combi, and the fares for Edmonton to Yellowknife are very reasonable!
 
visualapproach
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:25 pm

Unfortunately the only affordable way I can find is to fly YZF-YEG on First Air, for about $233. Plus it's the only flight I can see during daylight in October. Flight 952 on a Wednesday appears to be a B732.

Quoting opticalilyushin (Reply 18):
Be careful if you book this route with First Air, their Edmonton-Yellowknife-Norman Wells-Inuvik service is now mostly flown on a Summit Air RJ85.
 
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Loran
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:13 am

For anyone chasing the An-140, recommend to do it soon because there seems to be only one left flying in Ukraine with Motor Sich Airlines. Yakutia has put its into storage and the Iranian ones are grounded since the recent accident.

Last Saturday I flew on UR-14005 from OZH to VKO, a nice 2.5h flight on this rare type.


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Photo © Eskov Dmitry



It is easily combineable with Motor Sich's An-24 service from IEV. Flew on UR-BXC which was built in 1973 but was in immaculate condition (almost better than their much newer An-140).

Regards,
Loran
703 717 727 732-9 747 757 767 777 787 AB2/6 310 318-321 330 340 359 380 D8M D91/3/5 D1C M11 M81-90 L10 IL1/8/6/7/W/9/4 TU3/5/2 YK4/2
 
classicjets
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:42 am

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 17):
Does anyone know the routes of Air North's and First Air Boeing B737-200s (any variation).... I can see YZF-YEG on First Air but are there many others?

As for other 732 operators in Canada, Air Inuit will start a twice weekly YUL-YQB-YVP flight next month. The Sunday flight is operated by 732 and the YUL-YQB sector is bookable.
 
visualapproach
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:42 pm

Quoting classicjets (Reply 21):
As for other 732 operators in Canada, Air Inuit will start a twice weekly YUL-YQB-YVP flight next month. The Sunday flight is operated by 732 and the YUL-YQB sector is bookable.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I ended up booking a return from YEG to YZF, reasonably priced and both flights hopefully on the scheduled B737-200!
 
dumbell2424
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:45 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter):
ERJ-140: Only in service with American Eagle. Possibly JetsGo of Australia will be putting 3 of these into service in the future.

Also the ERJ-135 is pretty rare in the US. Looks like UA has been putting them on IAH-GPT lately.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL4303
 
EricAY05
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:38 pm

It seems that this reintroduction has not yet been mentioned here:

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/ne...ivates-sole-md87-for-karup-flights

The plane has apparently also visited HEL at some point.
 
Skyeurope
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:08 pm

Has actually been mentioned in the first post of this thread. Sadly, this route was only operated by MD-87 for a few days (if it was ever operated by MD-87, I don't know) and seems to be flown by ATR-72 now.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:39 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter):
Jetstream 31 / 32: Same as above, Sun Air of Scandinavia, some routes out of Billund, like DUS for example.

Can be flown in the US as well. Corporate Flight Mangament dba Appalachian Air, Texas Sky and Fly Manistee. All EAS routes, Texas Sky is probably the easiest to get to, operating out of DAL and AUS to VCT.

Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter):
Do328 Jet: On several routes out of Billund BLL, operated by SunAir of Scandinavia for British Airways. Fares are expensive, but very cheap if booked on BA Avios or AA AAdvantage miles.

US based Ultimate Air Shuttle operates a number of them.

Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter):
Saab 2000: still easy in Europe. Golden Air, Carpatair, Eastern Airways, Darwin Airlines, Polet Airlines

Not sure when but PenAir has a couple Saab 2000's coming to operate up in Alaska.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
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fallap
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:11 am

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 25):
Has actually been mentioned in the first post of this thread. Sadly, this route was only operated by MD-87 for a few days (if it was ever operated by MD-87, I don't know) and seems to be flown by ATR-72 now.

I live at Karup Airbase, and I have only seen the MD83 when passing overhead. But the flight is usually operated by an ATR72-200.

It's still a lovely short flight, and you'll get the chance of seeing a lot of the Danish landscape from a relative low altitude. The plane's path takes it right over our second largest city: Aarhus, and also the large city of Roskilde.

They even serve free coffee and tea, plus a small piece of chocolate.
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
EricAY05
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:18 am

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 25):

Oops! I even stopped to think about the MD81 operator in Venezuela and still managed to miss the MD87 being mentioned right above :O Do you have any idea where teh MD87 might be operated? There's a recent pic of it landing in HEL on a Finnish aviation forum, so I would say that the frame is still active.
 
Skyeurope
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:16 am

Quoting EricAY05 (Reply 28):
Oops! I even stopped to think about the MD81 operator in Venezuela and still managed to miss the MD87 being mentioned right above :O Do you have any idea where teh MD87 might be operated? There's a recent pic of it landing in HEL on a Finnish aviation forum, so I would say that the frame is still active.

I'm pretty sure it's still active, but doing charter business only.
 
EricAY05
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Fri May 01, 2015 10:47 pm

Thanks! It's a pity there are no scheduled flights.
 
dumbell2424
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Mon May 04, 2015 3:55 pm

The 762ER was discussed in Q1s thread with US retiring them, but it seems like there is still chance to catch one.

EI Use Of Chartered Planes On Transatlantic Routes (by EIJFK May 3 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Aer Lingus will be wet leasing one from Omni for it's BOS-SNN route from June thru September.

Source on dates: http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/ne...ni-air-for-b767-lease-requirements
 
MH017
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Tue May 05, 2015 1:57 pm

Was able to book following types for June next (and quite happy with that):

DO328JET BLL-MUC
EMB-145 MUC-BRS
DO228 ACI-SOU
EMB-135 SOU-ABZ
J-41 ABZ-LBA
RJ-85 YZF-YEV
HS748 YEV-YXY
EMB-110 FRS-GUA
MD-90 ATL-BOS
717 BOS-JFK
A340-500 JFK-GYD
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
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fallap
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Tue May 05, 2015 2:37 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 32):
DO328JET BLL-MUC
EMB-145 MUC-BRS
DO228 ACI-SOU
EMB-135 SOU-ABZ
J-41 ABZ-LBA
RJ-85 YZF-YEV
HS748 YEV-YXY
EMB-110 FRS-GUA
MD-90 ATL-BOS
717 BOS-JFK
A340-500 JFK-GYD

I hate you so much now   Have fun though 
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
visualapproach
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Mon May 11, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 32):
RJ-85 YZF-YEV

Make sure you book a Buffalo Airways tour whilst you're in YZF! Every weekday at 12, but you need to book ahead.

Will you be flying into Yellowknife on the B732?

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 22):
nteresting, thanks for sharing. I ended up booking a return from YEG to YZF, reasonably priced and both flights hopefully on the scheduled B737-200!

and what an awesome experience! Everyone needs to get up to YEG/YZF and try out the B737-200 before it's too late.

Shameless plug, but some videos from my trip on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E9ciMlSyTk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cIX7aZdR9M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49ngNfT6krY
 
FighterPilot
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Mon May 11, 2015 6:22 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 32):
HS748 YEV-YXY

Enjoy! I've always wondered what the ride would be like in a PAX configuration. I only ever flew her in a cargo config with the inside stripped and insulation missing. Those Darts were not quiet!

Cal   
*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
 
Skyeurope
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Fri May 15, 2015 7:47 am

I've just noticed A340-200 SU-GBN (ex EgyptAir) of Air Leisure flying from Cairo to Shenzhen on FR24.

Has anybody got an idea about that airline? They haven't got a website etc. What kind of routes do they operate, I guess charter work only?
 
MH017
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Fri May 15, 2015 2:48 pm

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 34):
Make sure you book a Buffalo Airways tour whilst you're in YZF! Every weekday at 12, but you need to book ahead.

Will you be flying into Yellowknife on the B732?

Thanks for the heads-up regarding Buffalo Airways tour...will do, bookable via their website, that is ?

Will be flying into YZF on Canadian North on the morning flight ex YEG...will be a 733, I believe  
don't throw away tomorrow !
 
Birdwatching
Topic Author
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Fri May 15, 2015 4:37 pm

So it seems that there is a new option for the 737-200, Aerodesierto in Chile. There was a thread about it here on A.net but nobody replied because Chile was misspelled.

Aerodesierto Of Clile Has Started Operations (by yenne09 May 6 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Soren   
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
jb1087xna
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Fri May 15, 2015 11:31 pm

Got on one of Skywest's CRJ-1's on Tuesday. Was in their own paint and operating for DL Conn on ATL-XNA-CVG.
Next up: XNA-ATL-IAH-MSP-XNA
 
visualapproach
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Sat May 16, 2015 2:29 pm

Quoting MH017 (Reply 37):
Thanks for the heads-up regarding Buffalo Airways tour...will do, bookable via their website, that is ?

Email [email protected] and just explain you want to book a tour. Someone will email you back.
 
dumbell2424
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Sun May 17, 2015 11:27 am

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 36):

I've just noticed A340-200 SU-GBN (ex EgyptAir) of Air Leisure flying from Cairo to Shenzhen on FR24.

Has anybody got an idea about that airline? They haven't got a website etc. What kind of routes do they operate, I guess charter work only?

Seemingly just charter, can be booked through Rainbow Holiday Travel Agency

See here: http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/ne...start-charters-to-china-next-month
 
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airbuseric
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RE: Flying Rare / Classic Aircraft In 2015 (Q2)

Tue May 19, 2015 10:01 am

CAAP (Civil Aviation Authority of Philippines) have taken the AOC of Skyjet Airlines/Magnum Air for non compliance with safety regulations.

Their single BAe 146-100 is grounded and operations are suspended with immediate effect.

A good decision by CAAP! Bad for us, although I am happy that I flew their BAe 146 just last month. This airline was one load of crap and honestly they should not be allowed to operate an airline this way  

Also the AOC of South East Asian Airlines has been suspended. They operated Dornier 328 service out of CRK. I flew them last year and with German crew they seemed ok to me at first sight.
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