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redcap1962
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B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:23 am

What's on the above aircrafts upper decks? How does it look like up there?

Would be interested in photos & descriptions!

Somebody here who had the possibility to be a "passenger" on one of those with a normal cargo flight? Let us know how it was!

THX in advance!
This is your pilot speaking. Welcome to flight one from here to there. We'll be flying at a height of ten feet, going up to twelve and a half feet if we see anything big. My copilot today is a flask of coffee.

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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:12 am

I recall being given a tour of MH's 744F - up on the upperdeck are old F sleeper seats for the additional crew (loadmaster, pilots etc). Nothing more fancy than that.

Also the only way you can be a passenger up there is if you're needed onboard - like animal handlers whenever animals are shipped through cargo.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:39 am

Usually six seats. 45 inch pitch recliners with foot rests. A small galley with a coffee maker and oven. A normal lavatory. A curtain separating the flight deck from the cabin. There are two bunks in the back behind the wall for pilots to rest.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:46 am

Here you go, one picture worth a thousand words. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llv138ojUmE

Really quite nice.
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na
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:09 am

readytotaxi wrote:
Here you go, one picture worth a thousand words. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llv138ojUmE

Really quite nice.


Well, thats a converted ex-passenger plane. Not exactly what the OP was asking for.

Like Newbiepilot wrote, on a 747 freighter there are as standard: 2 bunks for the crew, a few seats (quality depending on the operator, often surplus pax seats), a small galley and a standard toilet.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:25 am

Okay sorry. How about this.?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAfg-Lzf4K8
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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questions
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:46 am

Are crew expected to bring their own food and beverages?
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:03 pm

questions wrote:
Are crew expected to bring their own food and beverages?

Most cargo carriers typically provision the flights just as an airline would for their crew.
 
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:08 pm

On the 747-400F, the upper deck typically consists of:
A lavatory standing towards the forward center of the upper deck at an odd angle, halfway surrounding the escape slide mechanism for the emergency exit door on aircraft right...
A galley area on aircraft left, where the crew rest bunks would normally be on a 747-400 passenger airliner. UPS and FedEx (which doesn't fly 747s) supply crews with meals, but of course this will vary from airline to airline, and depend on length of route. On UPS and FedEx, jumpseaters are also provided meals, which is awesome...
Aft of the galley and lavatory, there are either 4 or 6 old-fashioned first-class seats, usually in a 2-2 arrangement. These would be considered business class by today's standards, and not a very luxurious one at that. They are large and cushy, but I've yet to see any that lie fully flat. There's plenty of floor space, though...
Aft of the seats, both 747-400F and -400BCF typically have two full-flat crew bunks. These are arranged laterally across the width of the upper deck, in separate "rooms" accessed by a single, central door. Although the rooms feature floor-to-ceiling walls, privacy is achieved only with a curtain. The bunks each have a seatbelt at waist level, and are long enough to accommodate an adult male. They are really, really comfortable.

If you ever want to travel in style, park yourself on the upper deck of a 747-400F on a long flight. If you can get one of the bunks, that's great. If not, pile some blankets and pillows on the floor and camp out. On a recent ANC-SDF flight (less than 6 hours) that's what I did. Two pilots took the bunks, so I just built myself a campsite in the large amount of open floor space, curled up, and zonked out.
 
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cougar15
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:15 pm

Spent plenty of time as a jumpseater on 744F´s, mostly doing europe/asia. first of all, it´s a real pain to get up there, as you need to schlep your luggage up a folding ladder! once you get there, you will find (Standard B744F issue) a bunch of 6 premium economy seats. The upper deck is quite small, the crew rest is located at the back of it. 3 Windows only on the upper deck really suck from an avgeek perspective, but then.. you can always join the boys in the Cockpit. There is a galley, and no - you do not generally bring you own food, J class standard catering is provided . Of course, you need to heat it yourself in the galley, and as far as IFE goes up there, well... bring your IPAD.
The galley is cool for smokers. the ´kitchen sink´ draws outwards, so about 3 hours into the flight as a jumpseater on my last flight - when the captain let me in on the secret (after carefully observing my cigarette paket in the shirt pocket), we went for a little puff at 39k Ft. Just smoke in front of the ´kitchen sink´, blow downwards as it extracts, and everybody is happy.....
I enjoyed 10 on the way to HKG, last time I did that on a commercial was 20 years ago. So in a nutshell, there is my TR on a 744F!
Last edited by cougar15 on Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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redcap1962
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:21 pm

Well, actually the converted 400's are of interest as well since the space there is considerably larger, as also the vid shows - thank you all!
Quite interesting also the Information given about the escape routes in the other vid...

Unfortunately, as somebody not related to an airline (any more...) - or else needed on such a flight I will not have the opportunity to enjoy the obvious comfort of traveling like this :| ...
Last edited by redcap1962 on Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
This is your pilot speaking. Welcome to flight one from here to there. We'll be flying at a height of ten feet, going up to twelve and a half feet if we see anything big. My copilot today is a flask of coffee.

Eddie Izzard
 
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Dutchy
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:23 pm

On a side note, does the 747F pilots need some sort of extra qualification or is just a standard 744 license required?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
mmo
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:04 pm

Dutchy wrote:
On a side note, does the 747F pilots need some sort of extra qualification or is just a standard 744 license required?


The 747-400 type rating covers the entire 747-400 fleet and all variants. Having flown both pax and freighter aircraft, there is about 3-4 more hours of ground school and a little more emphasis on dangerous goods training and recurrent training. To be honest, I always enjoyed the freighter, it was much more relaxed than the pax flights and less headaches too!!!
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
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RL777
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:32 am

The 748Fs are quite nice up there! Had the opportunity to check one out a few weeks ago, the seats aren't anything special but the little crew bunk at the back looked very comfortable.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:33 am

Here's a somewhat more extensive tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmXUCDfcZs0
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
balair863
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:18 am

readytotaxi wrote:
Here you go, one picture worth a thousand words. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llv138ojUmE

Really quite nice.


For some reason I assumed that after FedEx 705, cargo a/c would have secure cockpit doors. Obviously I was wrong.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:27 am

balair863 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Here you go, one picture worth a thousand words. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llv138ojUmE

Really quite nice.


For some reason I assumed that after FedEx 705, cargo a/c would have secure cockpit doors. Obviously I was wrong.


There's only so much you can do to protect yourself from nutters who are actually on staff. A secure cockpit door won't help you if said nutter is jumpseating.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Dutchy
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:51 am

mmo wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
On a side note, does the 747F pilots need some sort of extra qualification or is just a standard 744 license required?


The 747-400 type rating covers the entire 747-400 fleet and all variants. Having flown both pax and freighter aircraft, there is about 3-4 more hours of ground school and a little more emphasis on dangerous goods training and recurrent training. To be honest, I always enjoyed the freighter, it was much more relaxed than the pax flights and less headaches too!!!


Thanks for the inside.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
flyDTW1992
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:16 pm

The 747-400F/8Fs are nice but rather cramped. The 747-400BCF is very comfortable with all that extra space. My employer's BCFs have about 10 seats, which are older domestic first class recliner-style. Two crew bunks, a spacious galley area, and space for the aircraft's printer and laptop station.
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69bug
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:58 am

My experience is mainly with the 742F.

On the Flying Tigers airplanes, you typically had 6 business class seats. If you were traveling as a pax on one (in any freighter I might add) you became the steward/dess as in you 'volunteered' to get the coffee and keep the crew replenished with such. You also has to take a 'jumpseat test' in the system before you could fly as in the case of an accident it was everyman for himself. Bags usually got tied on the main-deck next to the main entry door. There were usually a few straps kept there for the purpose.

I was on a flight into Kai Tak and was looking forward to the infamous approach but sadly the three extra seats in the cockpit were already taken up by crew/family members so I was stuck in the back with not even a window. Sitting in the 'normal' seats I was quite alarmed by the number of creaks, groans from the airframe during the approach.

In my time with LH Cgo,I distinctly remember the cockpit on some did not have any wall before the cockpit area... It was an open-plan layout, a 'studio cockpit' if you will. These airplanes had a few bunks and three economy type seats (not much recline!). In front of these seats was a semi-circular vent and I spent one leg of the flight freezing at the back with not much heat coming out. The FE tried his best but he could not get more heat out. The next leg I had a lot of heat.. to the extent I had to lessen the air volume. I enjoyed my time with the LH Cargo but a lot of my trips with the freighter were around the time they started phasing out the 742F so a lot of discussion in the cockpit was about the fate of the pilots. A lot of them seemed to think that if it came to the worst, they would look for a job with Iran Air.. not sure if that was a running joke among the pilots as my German was not up to understanding the nuances. On these flights the FE would give a briefing on the emergency evacuation procedure. Later on, this process was documented and you had to sign a paper stating you understood the procedures, this paper was retained in the trip file on the departure station.

I have flown in a lot of cockpits and the best of the lot is the 747 (classics especially) with the MD-11 coming a close second. I never managed a L-1011 .. that would have been great too.

Sb
 
69bug
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:00 am

My experience is mainly with the 742F.

On the Flying Tigers airplanes, you typically had 6 business class seats, covered with some ugly black vinyl and white headrest material. If you were traveling as a pax on one (in any freighter I might add) you became the steward/dess as in you 'volunteered' to get the coffee and keep the crew replenished with such. You also has to take a 'jumpseat test' in the system before you could fly as in the case of an accident it was everyman for himself. Bags usually got tied on the main-deck next to the main entry door. There were usually a few straps kept there for the purpose.

I was on a flight into Kai Tak and was looking forward to the infamous approach but sadly the three extra seats in the cockpit were already taken up by crew/family members so I was stuck in the back with not even a window. Sitting in the 'normal' seats I was quite alarmed by the number of creaks, groans from the airframe during the approach.

In my time with LH Cgo,I distinctly remember the cockpit on some did not have any wall before the cockpit area... It was an open-plan layout, a 'studio cockpit' if you will. These airplanes had a few bunks and three economy type seats (not much recline!). In front of these seats was a semi-circular vent and I spent one leg of the flight freezing at the back with not much heat coming out. The FE tried his best but he could not get more heat out. The next leg I had a lot of heat.. to the extent I had to lessen the air volume. I enjoyed my time with the LH Cargo but a lot of my trips with the freighter were around the time they started phasing out the 742F so a lot of discussion in the cockpit was about the fate of the pilots. A lot of them seemed to think that if it came to the worst, they would look for a job with Iran Air.. not sure if that was a running joke among the pilots as my German was not up to understanding the nuances. On these flights the FE would give a briefing on the emergency evacuation procedure. Later on, this process was documented and you had to sign a paper stating you understood the procedures, this paper was retained in the trip file on the departure station.

I have flown in a lot of cockpits and the best of the lot is the 747 (classics especially) with the MD-11 coming a close second. I never managed a L-1011 .. that would have been great too.

bug
 
flyDTW1992
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:31 pm

69bug wrote:
My experience is mainly with the 742F.

On the Flying Tigers airplanes, you typically had 6 business class seats, covered with some ugly black vinyl and white headrest material. If you were traveling as a pax on one (in any freighter I might add) you became the steward/dess as in you 'volunteered' to get the coffee and keep the crew replenished with such. You also has to take a 'jumpseat test' in the system before you could fly as in the case of an accident it was everyman for himself. Bags usually got tied on the main-deck next to the main entry door. There were usually a few straps kept there for the purpose.

I was on a flight into Kai Tak and was looking forward to the infamous approach but sadly the three extra seats in the cockpit were already taken up by crew/family members so I was stuck in the back with not even a window. Sitting in the 'normal' seats I was quite alarmed by the number of creaks, groans from the airframe during the approach.

In my time with LH Cgo,I distinctly remember the cockpit on some did not have any wall before the cockpit area... It was an open-plan layout, a 'studio cockpit' if you will. These airplanes had a few bunks and three economy type seats (not much recline!). In front of these seats was a semi-circular vent and I spent one leg of the flight freezing at the back with not much heat coming out. The FE tried his best but he could not get more heat out. The next leg I had a lot of heat.. to the extent I had to lessen the air volume. I enjoyed my time with the LH Cargo but a lot of my trips with the freighter were around the time they started phasing out the 742F so a lot of discussion in the cockpit was about the fate of the pilots. A lot of them seemed to think that if it came to the worst, they would look for a job with Iran Air.. not sure if that was a running joke among the pilots as my German was not up to understanding the nuances. On these flights the FE would give a briefing on the emergency evacuation procedure. Later on, this process was documented and you had to sign a paper stating you understood the procedures, this paper was retained in the trip file on the departure station.

I have flown in a lot of cockpits and the best of the lot is the 747 (classics especially) with the MD-11 coming a close second. I never managed a L-1011 .. that would have been great too.

bug


Man, I love hearing stories about Tigers. Thanks for the insight. Jumpseat travel is a little different nowadays on Connie's birds, but definitely similar in many ways. The -400BCFs are excellent for it, that upper deck has tons of room.
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RetiredWeasel
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:43 pm

Man, I love hearing stories about Tigers.


Ok here's one for you:
Circa 1985, a NW 747-200 was starting it's letdown into Kai Tek. The lead flight attendant called the cockpit and said there were a couple of 'Flying Tiger' pilots that would like to sit in the jumpseats to observe the infamous IGS approach into that airport. This was way prior to 911, so the captain stated 'sure send them up' assuming they were Flying Tiger Airline pilots.

When they entered the cockpit, the captain introduced himself and was shocked to see these gentlemen looked about 70 years old. The pilot age limit back then was 60. When the captain asked to see their tickets (a formality), they explained they really weren't Flying Tiger Airline Pilots, but were 2 of the original pilots who flew with Claire Chennault's P-40 Flying Tigers outfit back in 1940. They were going to a big reunion in Hong Kong. The captain who was a history buff dared not kick them out of the cockpit and proudly let them observe the approach and landing.

I can't swear this is a true story, but was talked about in the cockpit of NW's 747s for many years.
 
BravoOne
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:36 am

FTL had a number of pilots flying for them during the 60's, that had in fact been in the AVG. Most if not all of them have passed away by now but their names are noted as AVG pilots on the Gone West listed on their website. The pilot who did my landings on the Connie was an American who flew for the Israeli Air Force in P40 against the British back in 1947 or there abouts. Even though he was not Jewish, he is buried today in Israel.

You meet all kinds in this business:) Sorry for the thread drift......
 
andrej
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:19 pm

A picture is worth a thousand words. :)
Image
 
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cougar15
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:57 pm

redcap1962 wrote:
What's on the above aircrafts upper decks? How does it look like up there?

Would be interested in photos & descriptions!

Somebody here who had the possibility to be a "passenger" on one of those with a normal cargo flight? Let us know how it was!

THX in advance!


If you do some searching on Boeings website for the 8F, there is actually a brochure in PDF Format on ´suplementary seating´. it goes into great detail with lot´s of pictures on the upper deck layout. I dont have the time to look for it now on the website, but do have a stored copy somewhere - if you really want it, PM me with your email id and I will dig it out & send it.
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Max Q
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:29 am

Slightly off topic but a question, climbing that ladder to the upper deck, especially while carrying one's
flight bag looks a little tricky.


Are external steps to the upper deck door ever used ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:38 am

Max Q wrote:
Slightly off topic but a question, climbing that ladder to the upper deck, especially while carrying one's
flight bag looks a little tricky.


Are external steps to the upper deck door ever used ?


Hmmm. Max you asked that same question over a year ago. And I thought I had posted the answer. But here it is again: I used to see the JAL freighters at NRT using air stairs to the upper deck for service and access:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_lord/5740012100

As far as the ladder to the upper deck goes, they had at least one ~4' high side hand rail, so it wasn't much of a problem. Lifting your flight bag up to eye level and resting on a higher step while you climbed up aided in the process.
 
Max Q
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Re: B747-400F and B747-8F upper deck

Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:07 am

RetiredWeasel wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Slightly off topic but a question, climbing that ladder to the upper deck, especially while carrying one's
flight bag looks a little tricky.


Are external steps to the upper deck door ever used ?


Hmmm. Max you asked that same question over a year ago. And I thought I had posted the answer. But here it is again: I used to see the JAL freighters at NRT using air stairs to the upper deck for service and access:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_lord/5740012100

As far as the ladder to the upper deck goes, they had at least one ~4' high side hand rail, so it wasn't much of a problem. Lifting your flight bag up to eye level and resting on a higher step while you climbed up aided in the process.




Well thanks RW, now that you point that out I remember it well !



Best wishes.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg

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