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747classic
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Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:29 am

The two digit (Number/Number, Letter/Number, Number/Letter) Boeing customer code was always an indicator for the Original operator (or the airline/lessor that ordered the aircraft).
See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bo ... omer_codes

The Boeing customer code was not used anymore at the 787 and 737Max series

Boeing has now (secretly) removed the Boeing Customer Code from the 747-8 series (all aircraft built after L/N1533), 777 series (after L/N1415) and 737NG series (after L/N 6000)

See latest revisions of the Type Certificate of the 747,777 and 737 series,
747 : http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... _Rev58.pdf
777 : http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... _Rev40.pdf
737 : http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... _Rev56.pdf

The most recent revision of the 767 series doesn't yet indicate the transistion.
Last edited by 747classic on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
duboka
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:49 am

I don't think it's an overall removal. The B747-830 and B747-89L for example are officially two different versions of the same aircraft. 30 stands for lh and they are having a special fuel sys.... I found for example a B737-7... after L/N 6000. It's just in my opiniom an indication that lafter L/N they are having unsold aircrafts, which are not jet specified for a certain airline. Why should they register a new version for an airline, which is never going to buy the aircraft type?
 
727LOVER
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:03 am

Would a new carrier ordering a 737NG (not MAX) get a customer code.?

Thinking NEW Eastern.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:12 am

duboka wrote:
I don't think it's an overall removal. The B747-830 and B747-89L for example are officially two different versions of the same aircraft. 30 stands for lh and they are having a special fuel sys.... I found for example a B737-7... after L/N 6000.

As the Type Certificates have been amended to remove the customer code then how can the B747-830 & B747-89L be official, now? This presumably makes them sub types of the B747-8. The type certificate is what officially makes an aircraft a certified type, ie "official". The FAA must have agreed with the changes to do the official amending.

Gemuser
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:35 am

The costumer code must be something more then just a gimmick, KLM ordered their 738 as 737-8K2, the code for Transavia and not KLM, same for the 737-9k2 even though Transavia doesn't have any B739's.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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747classic
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:44 am

Gemuser wrote:
As the Type Certificates have been amended to remove the customer code then how can the B747-830 & B747-89L be official, now? This presumably makes them sub types of the B747-8. The type certificate is what officially makes an aircraft a certified type, ie "official". The FAA must have agreed with the changes to do the official amending.Gemuser


To clarify : Let's take the 747-8 as an example.

All aircraft produced before L/N 1533 are keeping their (sub)type, incl. the Boeing customer code

L/N 1532 - 747-867F, serial number 62823, Cathay #14, B-LJN, built with Boeing Customer code 67 (Cathay Pacific)
L/N 1533 - 747-83QF,serial number 62709, Silkway West Airlines , built with Boeing customer code 3Q (The Boeing Company)

after L/N 1533, only two subtypes are left : 747-8 and the 747-8F, no Boeing customer code

L/N 1534 - 747-8F, serial number 38076, Cargolux #14, LX-VCN, full livery, named : ‘Spirit of Schengen’
L/N 1535 - 747-8F, serial number 63199, The Boeing company
L/N 1536 - 747-8F, serial number 63378, Boeing Capital, lsd. to operator ABC
L/N 1537 - 747-8, serial number 60409, Korean Airlines
Last edited by 747classic on Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Noshow
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:48 am

And how do they mark individual changes for customer variants in the future? Let's say chinese language exit signs, Lufthansa soundproofed floor-insulation and such.
Are all those aircraft build standardized in a different way than before now?
 
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Channex757
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:59 am

Customer codes are increasingly less relevant as airlines take aircraft on shorter financial commitments, or negotiate orders through airline groups like IAG or Air France/KLM.

As for current models, new customer Jet2 was issued a code only this last few months or so. Their first new Boeing aircraft are 737-8MG NextGen aircraft.

BTW the Boeing code for the SilkWay freighter is 3Q and not QF.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:29 pm

Noshow wrote:
And how do they mark individual changes for customer variants in the future? Let's say chinese language exit signs, Lufthansa soundproofed floor-insulation and such.
Are all those aircraft build standardized in a different way than before now?


Customer codes never indicated customer-specific variations.

If one customer requested two different sets of configurations, they'd be given the same customer code.

Dutchy wrote:
The costumer code must be something more then just a gimmick, KLM ordered their 738 as 737-8K2, the code for Transavia and not KLM, same for the 737-9k2 even though Transavia doesn't have any B739's.


I recall reading at the time that they called KLM's -800s the 8K2 simply because neither Boeing nor KLM felt it would have been worth the paperwork to certify a new "type" (even if the certification itself was just additional paperwork and not additional test flights) with the relevant local authorities.

Reality is that while customer codes may have been cool from an avgeek perspective, they've been meaningless since the 727 (they may have meant something on the 707). It took Boeing a few decades to part with that tradition, but now they have.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
DfwRevolution
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:33 pm

Noshow wrote:
And how do they mark individual changes for customer variants in the future? Let's say chinese language exit signs, Lufthansa soundproofed floor-insulation and such.
Are all those aircraft build standardized in a different way than before now?


The aircraft still have serial numbers, which was always the more relevant number for tracking production documents, configuration, etc.
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scbriml
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:06 pm

747classic wrote:
Boeing has now (secretly) removed the Boeing Customer Code from the 747-8 series (all aircraft built after L/N1533), 777 series (after L/N1415) and 737NG series (after L/N 6000)


Secretly? They didn't do a very good job of keeping it a secret, did they? ;)

In the 21st century, with all the information available online, the customer code is pretty much a waste of two numbers that can find a good home somewhere more useful.
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Dutchy
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:02 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The costumer code must be something more then just a gimmick, KLM ordered their 738 as 737-8K2, the code for Transavia and not KLM, same for the 737-9k2 even though Transavia doesn't have any B739's.


I recall reading at the time that they called KLM's -800s the 8K2 simply because neither Boeing nor KLM felt it would have been worth the paperwork to certify a new "type" (even if the certification itself was just additional paperwork and not additional test flights) with the relevant local authorities.


But now you have lost me, either they did mean something, well additional paperwork and even test flights, would suggest it, or it doesn't, which would suggest the fact that the same code flies with two different configurations and airlines, KLM and Transavia abeit from the same owner.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Exit : Boeing Customer Code

Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:20 pm

Dutchy wrote:
But now you have lost me, either they did mean something, well additional paperwork and even test flights, would suggest it, or it doesn't, which would suggest the fact that the same code flies with two different configurations and airlines, KLM and Transavia abeit from the same owner.


My understanding is that it only "meant something" in the sense that the plane that was certified in the Netherlands was the 737-8K2, and having KLM flying 737-806 required some additional paperwork beyond what was necessary if they were flying 737-8K2s. I can't remember the specifics because I'm going off of a vague memory of reading it somewhere (maybe Airliners or Airways magazine??) and it was specifically mentioned that simplification of certification paperwork was the reason KLM was taking jets with Transavia's code.

But a customer code has never meant anything regarding what configuration a plane was delivered in. For example, ILFC had the customer code Q8, yet those planes would have many different options or configurations (engines, exit door configurations, customer options, etc.) depending on what airline flew them.

United took delivery of 747-451s that were ordered by Northwest. While I can't be 100% certain, I doubt there were any significant differences between those and the 747-422s ordered directly by UA.

Ultimately, Boeing has determined that the customer code is too much to maintain for too little practical purpose, and thus it is going away.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.

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