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brianbutler1984
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Boeing 717

Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:54 pm

Hi. is the Boeing 717 the same thing as the DC-9? I'm confused. What are the differences interior and exterior?
 
KLDC10
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Re: Boeing 717

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:30 pm

The Boeing 717 was originally marketed by McDonnell Douglas as the MD-95, and represents the final incarnation of the DC-9 family.
The DC-9 family consists of:
1st Generation (1965 onwards) : DC-9-10/20/30/40/50
2nd Generation: MD-81/2/3/7/8
3rd Generation: MD-90, MD-95

The MD-95, now known as the Boeing 717 first flew in 1998, as opposed to 1965 for the first DC-9 variant. It is fitted with a glass cockpit similar to the MD-11, which makes it more technologically advanced than any other member of the DC-9 family (though some MD-90s were also fitted with a glass cockpit, most were not). In terms of similarities, the interior of the cabin from a passenger perspective is almost entirely identical, featuring a 3-2 seating layout. Every member of the DC-9 family uses the same basic fuselage with varying wing designs. To the average observer, the different family members can be difficult to distinguish.

The main external difference is down to the type of engines used:
DC-9-10/20/30/40/50 - Pratt and Whitney JT8D (a few variants thereof)
MD-81/2/3/7/8 - Pratt and Whitney JT8D-200
MD-90 - IAE V2525-D5/IAE V2528-D5 (the latter provides 28,000lbf of thrust compared with 25,000lbf for the former)
MD-95 - Rolls Royce BR715

Aircraft lengths also vary, here are a few examples:
DC-9-10: 104ft
MD-87: 130ft
MD-90: 152ft
MD-95: 124ft

Hope this helps.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/A346/A359
Q400/E170/E175/E190/CS300
 
brianbutler1984
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Re: Boeing 717

Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:32 pm

wow KLDC10 thanks for the information, it defiantly helped!
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: Boeing 717

Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:10 am

To add further confusion, Boeing model 717 was also the designation for the aircraft better known as KC-135.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
NBGSkyGod
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Re: Boeing 717

Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:05 pm

The MD-95 proof of concept actually used a DC-9-30 air frame. So to sorta answer your question, it was billed as a 1-for-1 replacement for the DC-9-30 and aimed at a large US operator of them. Said operator didn't want them, but Value Jet did.
Pilots are idiots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
Vctony
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Re: Boeing 717

Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:13 am

NBGSkyGod wrote:
The MD-95 proof of concept actually used a DC-9-30 air frame. So to sorta answer your question, it was billed as a 1-for-1 replacement for the DC-9-30 and aimed at a large US operator of them. Said operator didn't want them, but Value Jet did.


Said operator's successor is now the largest 717 operator in the world (even if they were all 2nd hand).
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Boeing 717

Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:10 am

NBGSkyGod wrote:
The MD-95 proof of concept actually used a DC-9-30 air frame. So to sorta answer your question, it was billed as a 1-for-1 replacement for the DC-9-30 and aimed at a large US operator of them. Said operator didn't want them, but Value Jet did.

I thought the DC-9-40 is the same size as the 717. It would have been nice to see Boeing produce the 717-300.
 
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Faro
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Re: Boeing 717

Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:02 am

And the 717 is a flaming hot-rod!

It has a relatively high thrust-to-weight ratio and relatively low wing loading compared to the DC-9 and other contemporary airliners. So at reduced take-off weights or go-around, it climbs like a homesick angel!


Faro
The chalice not my son
 
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richcam427
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Re: Boeing 717

Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:23 am

The 717 is about the same size and capacity as a DC-9-40, but it's range and intended mission profile is right around that that of the DC-9-30.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Boeing 717

Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:39 pm

I ride on the 717 every week, and don't think I have ever been in a jet airliner with cabin as noisy as this thing is. Makes no difference if your in 1st class or coach, as the air-conditioning system is really loud. The RJ is light years quieter than the 717.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Boeing 717

Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:50 am

Does the 717 have more range than the DC-9-40?
 
stratosphere
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Re: Boeing 717

Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:43 am

BravoOne wrote:
I ride on the 717 every week, and don't think I have ever been in a jet airliner with cabin as noisy as this thing is. Makes no difference if your in 1st class or coach, as the air-conditioning system is really loud. The RJ is light years quieter than the 717.


Where the hell are you sitting on this thing? Must be in the very back. There is no way I would fly on an RJ over the 717
 
BravoOne
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Re: Boeing 717

Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:51 am

stratosphere wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I ride on the 717 every week, and don't think I have ever been in a jet airliner with cabin as noisy as this thing is. Makes no difference if your in 1st class or coach, as the air-conditioning system is really loud. The RJ is light years quieter than the 717.


Where the hell are you sitting on this thing? Must be in the very back. There is no way I would fly on an RJ over the 717


I said the RJ was quieter, and not that I preferred it over the 717. I'm usually in either 1st class or in the first four rows of coach. The pack noise is really off the charts on this aircraft and for that matter the aerodynamic noise is pretty loud as well.
 
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richcam427
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Re: Boeing 717

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:11 pm

BravoOne wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
I ride on the 717 every week, and don't think I have ever been in a jet airliner with cabin as noisy as this thing is. Makes no difference if your in 1st class or coach, as the air-conditioning system is really loud. The RJ is light years quieter than the 717.


Where the hell are you sitting on this thing? Must be in the very back. There is no way I would fly on an RJ over the 717


I said the RJ was quieter, and not that I preferred it over the 717. I'm usually in either 1st class or in the first four rows of coach. The pack noise is really off the charts on this aircraft and for that matter the aerodynamic noise is pretty loud as well.


Have you ever been in the back of a DC-9 or jurassic 737?
 
BravoOne
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Re: Boeing 717

Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:18 pm

Well I'm enough to have flown the 737-200, but never the DC9. Have ridden in the back of both of them in the distant past, but don't recall them being that bad. I have been in the last row on the 717 and actually got off and bought a ticket on a 737 ride. Guess I haven't been perfectly clear. I think the 717 is a POS.
 
apfpilot
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Re: Boeing 717

Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:21 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Well I'm enough to have flown the 737-200, but never the DC9. Have ridden in the back of both of them in the distant past, but don't recall them being that bad. I have been in the last row on the 717 and actually got off and bought a ticket on a 737 ride. Guess I haven't been perfectly clear. I think the 717 is a POS.


Wow, that is incredible and completely at odds with my opinion on the aircraft. Not saying you are wrong as comfort is a subjective thing but that's a 180 from what I've heard and experienced to be the norm.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
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PITingres
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Re: Boeing 717

Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:27 pm

I'm with apfpilot, and it would be interesting to see some sound meter numbers. I haven't flown an MD80 recently enough to say, but I don't recall thinking that the 717 was noisier up front (to me it's pretty quiet), and I'd virtually guarantee that a 717 is quieter than the MD80 in the back. I rather like the 717 myself.

I was in the next-to-last row of a DC-9 some years ago, and it's deafening. Absolutely, with zero doubt, noisier than a 717, even in the rear of the 717.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
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rjsampson
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Re: Boeing 717

Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:57 am

KLDC10 wrote:
The Boeing 717 was originally marketed by McDonnell Douglas as the MD-95, and represents the final incarnation of the DC-9 family.

It is fitted with a glass cockpit similar to the MD-11, which makes it more technologically advanced than any other member of the DC-9 family (though some MD-90s were also fitted with a glass cockpit, most were not).


Certainly not to second-guess you, as you are likely more familiar than I am: Did MD-90's actually roll off the line with steam-gauge cockpits?

PITingres wrote:
I'm with apfpilot, and it would be interesting to see some sound meter numbers. I haven't flown an MD80 recently enough to say, but I don't recall thinking that the 717 was noisier up front (to me it's pretty quiet), and I'd virtually guarantee that a 717 is quieter than the MD80 in the back. I rather like the 717 myself.

I was in the next-to-last row of a DC-9 some years ago, and it's deafening. Absolutely, with zero doubt, noisier than a 717, even in the rear of the 717.


Yeah, this is an interesting discussion. I've non-rev'ed on the jump seat of both DC-9s and 717s (which I do NOT recommend such an unpleasant experience, to anyone, BTW), have sat in the back of both aircraft, and in the front of both aircraft. In the first and third scenario: I did actually perceive engine noise (on takeoff at least) to be louder on the 717 with the BR's. I suppose it was a greater amplitude of the "buzzsaw" compared to the JT8D (or even -200 in the Mad Dog variants). In the second scenario, those JT8Ds definitely made some noise in the back, especially if their N1s were not in sync. (In music, we call that sound the "wah-wahs."). Ugh. I chalk that aviation sound right up there with being a line guy marshaling MU-2s, before ANC headphones were readily available.

In either case, the engine noise on the 717 was certainly nothing compared to sitting aft of the wing on a 73 Jurassic, Classic, NG, DC-9. MD8, or 717, (with the exception of the "wah-wahs" in the DC-9)
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. Unfortunately, we're grounded :(
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Boeing 717

Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:33 am

What is First Class like in the 717? Do they serve hot meals?
 
BravoOne
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Re: Boeing 717

Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:22 am

Oh yes, usually at least a five course meal with numerous wines to choose from, and oh did I mention the bread pudding/ Just kidding but the new DL snacks are an improvement over the old peanuts.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Boeing 717

Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:55 pm

rjsampson wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
The Boeing 717 was originally marketed by McDonnell Douglas as the MD-95, and represents the final incarnation of the DC-9 family.

It is fitted with a glass cockpit similar to the MD-11, which makes it more technologically advanced than any other member of the DC-9 family (though some MD-90s were also fitted with a glass cockpit, most were not).


Certainly not to second-guess you, as you are likely more familiar than I am: Did MD-90's actually roll off the line with steam-gauge cockpits?


Yes, they came off the line with analog cockpits. Here are some pictures from different DC-9-family variants, hope they help :)

DC-9-51: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Ai ... /4165389/L
MD-82: https://www.airliners.net/photo/American ... /4145197/L
MD-90: https://www.airliners.net/photo/China-Ea ... 0/900357/L
MD-95/717: https://www.airliners.net/photo/AirTran/ ... /1539564/L

As for the glass cockpit fitted to some MD-90s, I'm afraid I can't find any images in the A.Net database, so we'll have to make do with this lower-quality image from Wikimedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell ... 2003_F.jpg
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/A346/A359
Q400/E170/E175/E190/CS300
 
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MD80
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Re: Boeing 717

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:07 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Does the 717 have more range than the DC-9-40?


Generally (depending on the mtow Kg), the Boeing 717 provides a higher useable range compared to the DC-9-40.

Regards
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
BravoOne
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Re: Boeing 717

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:20 pm

I think the Saudia MD90' were all glass?

Sorry I had not checked you post before my own posting. Duh?
 
NBGSkyGod
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Re: Boeing 717

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:29 pm

The MD-90 was originally supposed to come off the line with the glass cockpit, but Delta, wanted the MD-88's cockpit systems to be more compatible with their training. So MDC went with that system, and left the glass cockpit as a customer option. Only Saudia took that option as they had a large fleet of both MD-11s and MD-90s on order, and wanted the option to move crews between them.
Pilots are idiots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
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767333ER
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Re: Boeing 717

Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:17 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Well I'm enough to have flown the 737-200, but never the DC9. Have ridden in the back of both of them in the distant past, but don't recall them being that bad. I have been in the last row on the 717 and actually got off and bought a ticket on a 737 ride. Guess I haven't been perfectly clear. I think the 717 is a POS.

That's kind of funny because the 737NG is probably the loudest planes in its generation (I.e. Comparing to similar planes such as A320 and 717) thanks to its old airframe design and engines with shrunken fans. I doubt you would have a quieter experience on a 737 than a 717 unless you were sitting in the very back of the 717.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

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ro1960
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Re: Boeing 717

Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:19 pm

Is the ARJ-21 a Chinese sibling of the DC-9?
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blacksoviet
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Re: Boeing 717

Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:00 am

The 717 is better than the 736 and the 73G. The only advantage the 736 has is more range. The 717 has lower operating costs.
 
LH707330
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Re: Boeing 717

Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:28 am

Here's a good article about the differences in the family: http://airlinercafe.com/page.php?id=396

I'm not 100% convinced that all of those lengths are correct, but most of the rest of it is backed up by good pictures and explanations.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Boeing 717

Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:10 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
The 717 is better than the 736 and the 73G. The only advantage the 736 has is more range. The 717 has lower operating costs.


Not sure what you're trying to convey but whatever?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Boeing 717

Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:35 pm

BravoOne wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
The 717 is better than the 736 and the 73G. The only advantage the 736 has is more range. The 717 has lower operating costs.


Not sure what you're trying to convey but whatever?

The point is that Boeing killed the 717 because it was hurting 73G/736 sales.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Boeing 717

Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:43 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
The 717 is better than the 736 and the 73G. The only advantage the 736 has is more range. The 717 has lower operating costs.


Not sure what you're trying to convey but whatever?

The point is that Boeing killed the 717 because it was hurting 73G/736 sales.


Which wound up being stupid because the 736 was a suboptimal airframe for 717 missions and wound up selling very poorly. But hindsight is 20/20.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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blacksoviet
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Re: Boeing 717

Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:25 pm

DocLightning wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
BravoOne wrote:

Not sure what you're trying to convey but whatever?

The point is that Boeing killed the 717 because it was hurting 73G/736 sales.


Which wound up being stupid because the 736 was a suboptimal airframe for 717 missions and wound up selling very poorly. But hindsight is 20/20.


I think that if Boeing still offered the 717, the 73G would have still received plenty of orders for longer-range missions.

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