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WPvsMW
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How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:47 am

Boeing likes to show 747Fs with tilt-up noses in its cargo forecasts.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/market/cargo-forecast/

What frames in common use have tilt-up noses other than the 747F, and how important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?
 
MO11
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:38 pm

If your business is to fly cargo that can't fit through the side door, then the swing-up nose is for you. Airplanes that have an aft loading ramp (think C-130) accomplish the same goal. If you're just running containers, then the swing-up nose is unnecessary.

The old ATL-98 had the swing up nose so that it could taske cars. The Antonov 124 has the swing up nose, and is commonly used to haul jet engines. Ditto the Antonov 225.
 
BravoOne
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:48 pm

When FTL started using the CL44 swing tail, their business multiplied rapidly.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:11 pm

C-5, anything can be loaded into a 17' square opening, plus kneeling for drive-on or truck bed for containers. Pretty useful when carrying a Mark V special ops boat, a propellor for a ship or a tank.

GF
 
WPvsMW
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:54 pm

BravoOne mentioned the CL-44... are there any swing-tail frames still in use? Seems like there would be APU placement problems with turbofan frames.

A corollary of the topic: is there enough demand for tilt-nose frames to keep the 748F program alive? Are there any non-RU operators of tilt-nose An124s?
 
MO11
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:38 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
BravoOne mentioned the CL-44... are there any swing-tail frames still in use? Seems like there would be APU placement problems with turbofan frames.

A corollary of the topic: is there enough demand for tilt-nose frames to keep the 748F program alive? Are there any non-RU operators of tilt-nose An124s?


Negative on the CL-44; I don't think there is any support for the Tyne engine.

Not enough demand for the 747. There are non-RU charter brokers that can procure the An124, but the airplanes will be flown by the usual companies.
 
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Horstroad
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:07 am

WPvsMW wrote:
are there any swing-tail frames still in use? Seems like there would be APU placement problems with turbofan frames.

Boeings DreamLifter has a swing tail. It doesn't have an APU in the tail though
 
WPvsMW
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:51 am

My fav DreamLifter story: "On November 20, 2013, Dreamlifter N780BA operated by Atlas Air inadvertently landed at Colonel James Jabara Airport, a small general aviation airport in Wichita, Kansas. Its intended destination was McConnell Air Force Base, 9 miles past Jabara Airport on the same heading. The aircraft was able to successfully take off again from Jabara's 6100-foot runway the following day and landed at McConnell without incident." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Dreamlifter.
http://avherald.com/h?article=46bcd7c5
The flight crew thought they had landed at MConnell, then thought they had landed at Beech, until someone "knocked on the door" to tell them they had landed at Jabara... 100 ft wide. Great piloting, except for navigating.
 
vc10
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:51 am

How about the old Armstrong Whitworth Argosy . It loaded from both ends
 
WPvsMW
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:07 am

The Whistling Wheelbarrow. I don't think any are still flying.
 
benbeny
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:05 pm

Does anyone still operate L-100 or L-100-30 commercially?
 
BravoOne
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:50 pm

Several operators.
http://www.aslaviationgroup.com/index.p ... gohttps://

Also this one. I actually flew this and several other DC4's in the Congo in 1963 as a very young whippersnapper.

www.airphotographicinternational.com/pr ... on-airways
 
WPvsMW
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:55 pm

If you liked the L-100.... the Phoenix arises.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/LM-100J.html
Certified and in production.
 
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SAAFNAV
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:27 pm

benbeny wrote:
Does anyone still operate L-100 or L-100-30 commercially?


Safair (owned by ASL as stated by BraveOne) operates a fleet of Hercs, as well as Lynden Air Cargo.
And I think one more operator in the States, but as I've heard they might be 'sheep-dipping".

One is flown on the occasional charter by an outfit in Entebbe, Uganda.
Apparently TransAfrik also fly one when they get spares.
ex L-382G Loadmaster, ex C-130B Navigator, Möchtegern Flugzeugführer
 
WPvsMW
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:43 am

Curious usage... in the US, "sheep dipping" means covert ops in civilian clothing. So... Operator 1 is actually acting on behalf of an unnamed Operator 2... I assume for political reasons?
 
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SAAFNAV
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:46 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Curious usage... in the US, "sheep dipping" means covert ops in civilian clothing. So... Operator 1 is actually acting on behalf of an unnamed Operator 2... I assume for political reasons?


That's what I meant yes.
ex L-382G Loadmaster, ex C-130B Navigator, Möchtegern Flugzeugführer
 
VC10DC10
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:41 pm

MO11 wrote:

Negative on the CL-44; I don't think there is any support for the Tyne engine.



A very minor nitpick, but aren't there still Transall C-160 aircraft flying with Tyne engines? Agreed on your larger point that no CL-44 will fly again.

Edit: Does the Breguet Alize use the Tyne as well?

Edit2: I meant Breguet Atlantic, not Breguet Alize. Stupid brain.
 
VSMUT
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:12 am

WPvsMW wrote:
A corollary of the topic: is there enough demand for tilt-nose frames to keep the 748F program alive? Are there any non-RU operators of tilt-nose An124s?


Yes, Antonov Airlines of Ukraine has 7, Maximus Air Cargo of the UAE has 1 and Libyan Arab Air Cargo has 2, although in the case of the latter, they have been grounded since the war.
 
FrmrKSEngr
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Re: How important is a tilt-up nose in the air cargo business?

Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:30 pm

VC10DC10 wrote:
MO11 wrote:

Negative on the CL-44; I don't think there is any support for the Tyne engine.



A very minor nitpick, but aren't there still Transall C-160 aircraft flying with Tyne engines? Agreed on your larger point that no CL-44 will fly again.



I thought someone was restoring a CL-44 guppy in England.

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