STLflyer
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In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:18 am

Okay, so both pilots of an A320 ate the fish. Lets assume autoland isn't working for one reason or another, the plane has to be flown manually. The only person on board who can fly a plane and didn't have fish for dinner is a 737 pilot who has never been at the controls of an Airbus. How screwed is everybody?
 
Woodreau
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:38 am

Find some teenager with lots of FSX flight sim time in a 320 product.

Hopefully the 737 pilot will have had enough jumpseat briefings from jumpseating to be able to use the radios to talk to someone. Or maybe he was previously typed in it before and now is just on another aircraft.
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zeke
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:46 am

Should be straight forward.

But to get an A320 which has no autopilots working would be more improbable than being incapacitated due food poisoning.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:20 am

Most switches/controls are in similar positions in transport category aircraft. The use of the side stick will take a few minutes to get used to, and I'm sure a 737 pilot knows how to control thrust levers with autothrust off. Navigational and communications procedures are the same, they would be able to maintain level flight and speed, get on a radio to call for help, navigate their way to the nearest suitable runway, fly down an ILS and land. The landing won't be pretty, but they should after some time and practice control movements in flight they should be able to figure how to make the wheels hit the right spot on the runway without burying the gear in the pavement. And then bring the aircraft to safe stop.

Chances of an bringing the aircraft and passengers to a safe outcome? 99.99%
 
gloom
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:39 am

Chances of an bringing the aircraft and passengers to a safe outcome? 99.99%

I'm not quite sure. Setting NAV in bus (via FMGC) is something completely different from 737s. Autothrottle off is also something you could get wrong with (and you certainly don't want any degraded mode to kick in).

Anyways, chances of having to rely on someone other than pilot are next to none, and anything else here (a pilot, 737 rated but not a320) only reduces those chances. So, no brainer, have what you want here, and we won't worry anyways :P

Cheers,
Adam
 
BravoOne
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:47 pm

No way....you need to be a real pilot, not a game boy to fly a Boeing:)
 
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zeke
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:59 pm

gloom wrote:
I'm not quite sure. Setting NAV in bus (via FMGC) is something completely different from 737s. Autothrottle off is also something you could get wrong with (and you certainly don't want any degraded mode to kick in).


Most people I see have the whole route and anticipated arrival in the FM so if they go into backup Nav the flight plan is there. Heading, open climb/descent and V/S, is basically the same as the Boeing. It would be very easy to talk an ATPL holder into the correct sequence to fly the aircraft to a safe landing.
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CosmicCruiser
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:12 pm

not at any airline I know about. At least in my experience you cannot even sit in the seat in cruise with the A/P on unless you are CURRENT in that jet. You sure can't just be called up to fly a jet you're not typed in nor current in. Not being current holds true for any pilot at any airline. I know there's 777 guys where I was that always have problems keeping their currency due to long legs and minimum ldgs. You must go back in the sim and get your 3 & 3.
 
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zeke
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:27 pm

CosmicCruiser wrote:
not at any airline I know about.


I think you missed the first three words in the thread title, “In an emergency”
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
CosmicCruiser
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:31 pm

OK in some movie like scenario I guess you could just ask "is there a pilot onboard". I should have known.
 
KentB27
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:57 pm

My guess is that the FBW system in the A320 would not be very intuitive to a 737 pilot. With a Boeing you have to make constant corrections in manual flight as well as manually trim the elevators. In an A320 you can just let go of the sidestick and it will maintain the attitude and it trims the elevators automatically. You don't need to make as many corrections. A 737 pilot would probably try to manhandle and over-control an A320 because they would be used to way the 737 handles.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:08 pm

KentB27 wrote:
My guess is that the FBW system in the A320 would not be very intuitive to a 737 pilot. With a Boeing you have to make constant corrections in manual flight as well as manually trim the elevators. In an A320 you can just let go of the sidestick and it will maintain the attitude and it trims the elevators automatically. You don't need to make as many corrections. A 737 pilot would probably try to manhandle and over-control an A320 because they would be used to way the 737 handles.


A professional would likely begin with small inputs to see and feel the reaction the airplane gives. Would then increase to larger movements, a few practice turns and then would understand the feel enough to shoot a low approach and then circle around for a landing.

It may be a different type of bicycle, but a pilot with thousands of hours still knows the basics and can transfer those hand flying skills in an emergency situation. If it's the same company airplane, he or she would likely have sat in the jump seat of the opposite type several hundred times while commuting for work, and wouldn't be totally unfamiliar with the differences.
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zeke
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:26 pm

KentB27 wrote:
With a Boeing you have to make constant corrections in manual flight as well as manually trim the elevators. In an A320 you can just let go of the sidestick and it will maintain the attitude and it trims the elevators automatically.


Having seen literally hundreds of pilots go from B to A, it is not as you describe.

Pilots only make corrections if they need to regain a parameter, not for the sake of making movements.

And please be aware that the non fbw and fbw Boeing’s are flown differently.
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bombayduck
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:57 pm

Unless I am wrong, if both of the pilots are unable to move with food poisoning, how is another pilot able to get into the cockpit if the door opens up from the pilots side.? Normally they eat a different meal just in case this does happen.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:26 pm

bombayduck wrote:
Unless I am wrong, if both of the pilots are unable to move with food poisoning, how is another pilot able to get into the cockpit if the door opens up from the pilots side.? Normally they eat a different meal just in case this does happen.

Oh, I see - you real question is; "is there a secret code to over-ride the locked cockpit door - just for emergencies...."

And it is at this point the goons at Homeland Security start to take an interest in this thread. So I'm saying nothing. :wave:
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WPvsMW
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:23 pm

Assume the OP isn't after the door code... assume that on the way to the barf bowl one pilot opened the cockpit door, and collapsed, with the meal carts blocking the front galley, guarded by vigilant FAs. The flight leader/purser then enters the cockpit with a barf bag for the PIC, and the PIC says, page for a pilot or two, esp. a B-1 pilot (many reading this will recall actually happened, without the barf, but with a captain in RIP mode). The volunteer pilot will get a type-rated pilot on the horn, who will talk him/her down. If only one pilot on board, there will be a techie on board who can assist with the radios.

This scenario is actually presented by the "drone control of a transport a/c" advocates. Drone control for emergencies is actually more likely than one or two "AI-pilots". AI-trains and AI-cars are one thing... AI-piloted pax planes are in the very distant future. Like the Space Shuttle... AI can easily control take-off (launch), but landing is a whole 'nother thing. CAT III(C) will eventually work, but the locomotive will always have at least one driver.
 
BravoOne
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:49 pm

So many Walter Mitty types but so few have clue to what's involved. I'll give you 10 to1 odds if this really happened in say, a 737Max or a A321NEO, the airplane would not even make it to the runway in spite of autoland being fully functional. The human factor is just to great.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:56 pm

bombayduck wrote:
how is another pilot able to get into the cockpit if the door opens up from the pilots side.?


The FAs know the code.

But recent improvements in safety research have also led to cockpit doors that are pilot-proof. Bad luck for everybody involved. :duck:


David
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zeke
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:23 pm

bombayduck wrote:
Unless I am wrong, if both of the pilots are unable to move with food poisoning, how is another pilot able to get into the cockpit if the door opens up from the pilots side.? Normally they eat a different meal just in case this does happen.


Since 9-11 there has been a requirement for all pilots of international flights to obtain an “ICAO language proficiency” as well as biometric data stored in central databases, part of this is stored on the FAA/ICAO ID card the pilot carries, the other part is uploaded to aircraft database every 28 day cycle.

One of the bathrooms on the aircraft has a special marking on the ceiling outside it that is only known to pilots. Inside the bathroom is a special card reader on the edge of the mirror around chest height which reads the pilots FAA/ICAO biometric data on their ID card. Behind the mirror is a camera that performs 3D face recognition using isogeodesic stripes and compress that to the biometric data contained on the ID card and aircraft database.

If the biometric data matches the camera, I.d card, and aircraft database, a challenge is sent to the cockpit, if that does not get overridden a one time ketcode is generated on the LCD panel at the cabin crew station next to the bathroom. The one time key code only lasts 10 minutes, if they do not use the one time key code on the cockpit door within 10 minutes they have to generate a new one by repeating the same process.
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fr8mech
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:51 pm

BravoOne wrote:
So many Walter Mitty types but so few have clue to what's involved. I'll give you 10 to1 odds if this really happened in say, a 737Max or a A321NEO, the airplane would not even make it to the runway in spite of autoland being fully functional. The human factor is just to great.


I disagree. Should this unlikely scenario occur, a pilot that is even remotely familiar with procedures, nomenclature and radios, should be able to land the aircraft, especially with a functioning autoland system.

I am not a pilot. I am a mechanic that has decades of experience across multiple fleets and manufacturers, and I have successfully landed (hand and autoland) Boeing, Douglas & Airbus, in simulation (real simulators, not Flight Sim). If I could do it, I'm sure an ATP could handle it. With adequate communications and guidance from the ground, I suspect the probability of a successfully landing approaches 100%.
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Redbellyguppy
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:35 pm

If he doesn't know about activating the approach phase it might get a little sporty when he tries to use managed speed on the ils... then he will click off the AT and discover some of its more interesting nuances particularly if he should somehow remain in open descent trying to correct from the high and fast the surge to 250 instead of F or VLS mini speed he was hoping for. But a professional pilot will manage to get it done. It won't be pretty but if you have lots of gas there's no rush.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:37 pm

zeke wrote:
bombayduck wrote:
Unless I am wrong, if both of the pilots are unable to move with food poisoning, how is another pilot able to get into the cockpit if the door opens up from the pilots side.? Normally they eat a different meal just in case this does happen.


Since 9-11 there has been a requirement for all pilots of international flights to obtain an “ICAO language proficiency” as well as biometric data stored in central databases, part of this is stored on the FAA/ICAO ID card the pilot carries, the other part is uploaded to aircraft database every 28 day cycle.

One of the bathrooms on the aircraft has a special marking on the ceiling outside it that is only known to pilots. Inside the bathroom is a special card reader on the edge of the mirror around chest height which reads the pilots FAA/ICAO biometric data on their ID card. Behind the mirror is a camera that performs 3D face recognition using isogeodesic stripes and compress that to the biometric data contained on the ID card and aircraft database.

If the biometric data matches the camera, I.d card, and aircraft database, a challenge is sent to the cockpit, if that does not get overridden a one time ketcode is generated on the LCD panel at the cabin crew station next to the bathroom. The one time key code only lasts 10 minutes, if they do not use the one time key code on the cockpit door within 10 minutes they have to generate a new one by repeating the same process.


Wow - some real James Bond-type shit going on up there...whodathunkit???
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STLflyer
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:47 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Assume the OP isn't after the door code


Haha no, just curious. And I realize that this is basically an impossible scenario and something that would only happen in Hollywood. Thanks for the replies everyone!
 
BravoOne
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:41 pm

fr8mech wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
So many Walter Mitty types but so few have clue to what's involved. I'll give you 10 to1 odds if this really happened in say, a 737Max or a A321NEO, the airplane would not even make it to the runway in spite of autoland being fully functional. The human factor is just to great.


I disagree. Should this unlikely scenario occur, a pilot that is even remotely familiar with procedures, nomenclature and radios, should be able to land the aircraft, especially with a functioning autoland system.

I am not a pilot. I am a mechanic that has decades of experience across multiple fleets and manufacturers, and I have successfully landed (hand and autoland) Boeing, Douglas & Airbus, in simulation (real simulators, not Flight Sim). If I could do it, I'm sure an ATP could handle it. With adequate communications and guidance from the ground, I suspect the probability of a successfully landing approaches 100%.


Probably got ahead myself as my reply was directed at someone, not a pilot landing the airplane with no previous experience, not an AB pilot flying a Boeing or vice versa. I would still bet against you doing it with your background. The first time the AP dropped off, I suspect the game would be over. Just sayn:)
 
chimborazo
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:42 pm

Flying an aeroplane is fundamentally pretty easy in my view. Cut away all the automation and there is a stick/control column, throttles/thrust levers and some pedals (not that you even need those to fly on most jets- yaw camper does it for you). The idea that someone who isn't a trained airline pilot but a low hours ppl for example will have no chance of a safe outcome at the controls is quite arrogant. If you can use the radio and get "told" what to do by a competent person, you just have to "fly the aeroplane" -rule number 1 from my instructor and I'm sure many others. Fly in this direction, descend at this rate, there's the PAPI on a 3 mile runway, here's your airspeeds and flap,speeds and so on (notwithstanding whatever traumatic situation has got you into that situation in the first place but then some people perform really well when they're in the shit). The point is, generallly modern aviation is quite straightforward- the pilots don't get paid for the mundane "flying the plane". They get paid for: flight planning, situational awareness, weather and fuel management, dealing with non-normal situations and emergencies and so on. For the most part day to day flying can be mundane from conversations I've had with airline pilots at my flying school. They get paid for when it goes wrong.
In my own experience (low 150h, currently studying instrument and night ratings) I jumped in a high-end sim around 60h. 15 mile final in a 737. All automation off-land it. It took about 30s to get used to the feel and the electric trim and to be honest it was pretty easy to land. Noticeable how much more inertia it had than a light plane, plus having to think ahead with thrust lag etc. But it wasn't hard to get it down with a reasonable crosswind. Related- my first night landing ga felt very similar,to this: no peripheral cues to speed or picture so it was a different environment- follow the VASI and maintain correct approach speed, kill the throttle over the red lights and hold attitude. Felt very similar to landing that first 737 sim.
We then went on to doing touch and go circuits at Stansted, "lost" an engine on one. Again- it wasn't hard to fly the plane- visually. Now... had it been real, at night, low vis, lost a hydraulic system and the gear didn't want to come down it would be a whole different story: that's why pilots get their pay. But if nothing goes wrong I see no reason why a competent ppl with a bit of radio back up wouldn't get a modern jet down to a walk-away situation.

On a similar but inverse note, I took one of the sim instructors - very proficient in the sim, never flown a real aircraft up,for circuits in a 172. First downwind I gave him control at straight and level and asked him to get a feel for it- he was not expecting to touch the controls until I asked him to. He turned base at my direction then into final with me in the throttle. Flew final to a reasonable touch down with me just helping flare a little. We touched and go-ed th successful landing and he flew the next full circuit and landing on his own,to a successful landing (again I helped with that last inch of column for the flare- it would have been a perfectly safe flat landing otherwise). My point here is that I put him completely on the spot and he succeeded- had I become incapacitated, despite never having flown a real plane, he would have put it down safely with his previous knowledge and a few minutes getting used to the feel of the plane. In my view, barring something going wrong with the aircraft itself, a decent ppl would be able to get a jet down- use the automation if you know how/can be told how, otherwise just turn it off and fly it- it's an aeroplane just like a 172!
 
p277
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:47 pm

zeke wrote:
bombayduck wrote:
Unless I am wrong, if both of the pilots are unable to move with food poisoning, how is another pilot able to get into the cockpit if the door opens up from the pilots side.? Normally they eat a different meal just in case this does happen.


Since 9-11 there has been a requirement for all pilots of international flights to obtain an “ICAO language proficiency” as well as biometric data stored in central databases, part of this is stored on the FAA/ICAO ID card the pilot carries, the other part is uploaded to aircraft database every 28 day cycle.

One of the bathrooms on the aircraft has a special marking on the ceiling outside it that is only known to pilots. Inside the bathroom is a special card reader on the edge of the mirror around chest height which reads the pilots FAA/ICAO biometric data on their ID card. Behind the mirror is a camera that performs 3D face recognition using isogeodesic stripes and compress that to the biometric data contained on the ID card and aircraft database.

If the biometric data matches the camera, I.d card, and aircraft database, a challenge is sent to the cockpit, if that does not get overridden a one time ketcode is generated on the LCD panel at the cabin crew station next to the bathroom. The one time key code only lasts 10 minutes, if they do not use the one time key code on the cockpit door within 10 minutes they have to generate a new one by repeating the same process.



Sorry but.. :lol: :rotfl: :lol:
 
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fr8mech
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:12 am

BravoOne wrote:
I would still bet against you doing it with your background.


I wouldn't bet on me doing it either. Simulation is one thing, the real thing is something else. But an ATP? I have no doubt that it can be done, and with a high probability of success.
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BravoOne
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:01 pm

An ATP is nothing more than a knowledge evaluation and while there may be some AB or Boeing oriented questions it has little to do with actual manipulation of the controls, autopilot/FMC/Autothrottles. I would expect to see results somewhat like the Asiana accident at SFO.

BTW, there are hundred of general aviation accidents each year where the pilot simply looses control of a perfectly good airplane, many of which have functioning autopilots, albeit no autoland capability To bad we don't have access to a sim otherwise could bet a few beers on an evaluation of your concepts:)
 
Redbellyguppy
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:30 pm

I'm typed in both. The Airbus guy will have an easier time in the 737 than the 737 guy will in the Airbus.
 
Floppie
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:35 pm

If an Airbus-pilot performs a go around on the 737, he pulls the control column fully aft and stalls eventually ;)
 
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TOGA10
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:22 am

Floppie wrote:
If an Airbus-pilot performs a go around on the 737, he pulls the control column fully aft and stalls eventually ;)

Most / all Airbus pilots have flown conventional aircraft before, I'm sure they would know how to fly a go around normally. Might not be the most efficient one, but I'm sure he/she will get it away from the ground. Also, don't forget that in direct law, the Airbus sort of flies like a conventional aircraft and that's practiced in the sim as well.
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BravoOne
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:23 pm

This is not directed at Airbus as it has happened in Boeings as well but you get the idea.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... gh-444337/
 
VSMUT
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:50 pm

Any competent commercial pilot should be able to do it without any major troubles. They can at the very least fly it manually under visual rules with radar vectors from ATC.

I doubt the Asiana 777 pilots could do it though.

TOGA10 wrote:
Floppie wrote:
If an Airbus-pilot performs a go around on the 737, he pulls the control column fully aft and stalls eventually ;)

Most / all Airbus pilots have flown conventional aircraft before, I'm sure they would know how to fly a go around normally. Might not be the most efficient one, but I'm sure he/she will get it away from the ground. Also, don't forget that in direct law, the Airbus sort of flies like a conventional aircraft and that's practiced in the sim as well.


True, I've trained on a 737NG sim, and during ground schooling the theoretical stuff was mostly based on 737-400s and A320s, not to mention all the Cessna's and Pipers I also flew. I would have no problems getting either of those down safely using my ATR experience. I might overspeed flaps and gears, and would most certainly miss a number of items on the checklist, but it would be a safe landing. The hardest part would be finding the speeds, but even there I could resort to just asking ATC to find something for me, or other aircraft on the frequency. Chances are pretty good that there would be an A320 or 737 that is also on the frequency.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:15 pm

zeke wrote:
bombayduck wrote:
Unless I am wrong, if both of the pilots are unable to move with food poisoning, how is another pilot able to get into the cockpit if the door opens up from the pilots side.? Normally they eat a different meal just in case this does happen.


Since 9-11 there has been a requirement for all pilots of international flights to obtain an “ICAO language proficiency” as well as biometric data stored in central databases, part of this is stored on the FAA/ICAO ID card the pilot carries, the other part is uploaded to aircraft database every 28 day cycle.

One of the bathrooms on the aircraft has a special marking on the ceiling outside it that is only known to pilots. Inside the bathroom is a special card reader on the edge of the mirror around chest height which reads the pilots FAA/ICAO biometric data on their ID card. Behind the mirror is a camera that performs 3D face recognition using isogeodesic stripes and compress that to the biometric data contained on the ID card and aircraft database.

If the biometric data matches the camera, I.d card, and aircraft database, a challenge is sent to the cockpit, if that does not get overridden a one time ketcode is generated on the LCD panel at the cabin crew station next to the bathroom. The one time key code only lasts 10 minutes, if they do not use the one time key code on the cockpit door within 10 minutes they have to generate a new one by repeating the same process.


Thankyou!! You win todays internet!!!

Redbellyguppy wrote:
The Airbus guy will have an easier time in the 737 than the 737 guy will in the Airbus.
Is that because airbus pilots are better? :stirthepot:

Fred
Image
 
BravoOne
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:56 pm

Fred,

Most of us are tired of AB vs Boeing stuff, but more than willing to continue along those lines if you wish. That of course is not what this thread is about.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:13 pm

BravoOne wrote:
Fred,

Most of us are tired of AB vs Boeing stuff, but more than willing to continue along those lines if you wish. That of course is not what this thread is about.

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BravoOne
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:27 pm

Fred, that's just what I suspected you looked like, minus the spike hair!
 
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rjsampson
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:19 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Any competent commercial pilot should be able to do it without any major troubles. They can at the very least fly it manually under visual rules with radar vectors from ATC, and a modern autopilot stack


Unless, if the movies are to believed, I would think even that a semi-competent former Military pilot would be able to land a 320. Aviating in aviating. Even if you have a Drinking Problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9t26oXrcy0

Sorry, I had to add this to the conversation :).
Last edited by rjsampson on Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"..your eyes will be forever turned skyward, for there.." yeah we know the DaVinci quote. But GA is so dang expensive these days! :(
 
Woodreau
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:19 pm

BravoOne wrote:
This is not directed at Airbus as it has happened in Boeings as well but you get the idea.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... gh-444337/


Autothrust systems can lull you into a sense of complacency faster than autoflight systems can. So when conditions are favorable, I try to do as many landings without autothrust. But when things go into the crapper and weather absolutely sucks, automation stays on as long as I feel necessary.

In any case it's extremely remote where both pilots would be incapacitated. I haven't really encountered many crew that actually eat the crew meals - as a jumpseater they always offer their meal to me as they pull out whatever they purchased in the airport terminal or brought from home. And pilots never turn down free food. although I draw the line at fish. - they can keep the fish.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:16 am

It can take some time to figure out how to use the flight management computer to configure an approach. For a pilot not used to the airplane, that might not be easy. The autopilot in cruise is simple, but an approach is not. Speeds, weights, flap settings, etc are something a pilot walking into an unfamiliar plane will not know. I would be worried about not understanding how the autothrottle system worked since they are different.

I've spent plenty of time in 737s, 747s, and 787s and those displays, autopilots, and FMCs are pretty similar, but I went into a 767-200 flight deck a few years ago and man what a time warp. I am completely lost in an MD80. I think a 737 or A320 pilot would have a lot of trouble landing one of those. That's old school flying.

An A320 pilot may be very confused about the master caution system on a 737.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:45 am

zeke wrote:

And please be aware that the non fbw and fbw Boeing’s are flown differently.


Right, after flying a 777 in the morning I always had to be extremely careful to put on my non fbw captains hat if I was flying a 737, 747 or 767 in the afternoon. Don’t think so - they all fly the same.

If you can fly, you can fly - generally doesn’t matter what it is. Might take a few minutes to get comfortable but after that no big issues unless there were more issues than just two dead pilots. And if there were two dead pilots it’s fairly easy to get the door open unless things have changed.
 
strfyr51
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:51 am

In having been both a Boeing 737 and an Airbus A319/ A320 Maintenance controller the Airbus might be a bit easier to screw up on the approach without autoland because of the lack of throttle movement of the auto-throttles. But. As long as the pilot in command keeps a close eye on the angle of attack, the descent speeds and the glide slope he should be able to "horse" the airplane to the ground though I think he/she would lack finesse in "greasing" the landing. primarily due to lack of practice. But? I ask in the scenario. Why is the auto-land inop?? is the airplane damaged??
 
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zeke
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:07 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
Right, after flying a 777 in the morning I always had to be extremely careful to put on my non fbw captains hat if I was flying a 737, 747 or 767 in the afternoon. Don’t think so - they all fly the same.


So you are going to sit there and lie and say the trim on the fbw and non fbw are exactly the same ?
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BravoOne
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:46 pm

Zeke you need to sit back and take a really deep breath and stop calling other aviation professionals liars. Most of these Boeing production guys have forgotten more than you know, and many of them have Airbus experience somewhere in their backgrounds as well. Flying either a Boeing or an Airbus is pretty intitive for an experienced pilot with proper training and the FBW timing you speak of is intuitve for the most part.
 
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longhauler
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:06 pm

I have flown both wide-body and narrow-body Boeings and Airbuses and the reality is ... with the autopilot off (performed the same way on either) and with the autothrust off (performed the same way too, but the Boeing guy does have to bring the thrust levers out of the CLB gate on an Airbus, he'd figure it out fast enough) ... the airplanes fly the same way. Close enough that they'd get it on the ground in one piece.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
hivue
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:37 pm

longhauler wrote:
... the airplanes fly the same way.


I recall seeing something on youtube where some RAF pilots were being given a taste of the A400M, and afterwards they said they loved it (as you would expect) but they did have to get used to control deflections commanding rate instead of attitude, and centering the control commanding attitude hold.
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7BOEING7
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:40 am

zeke wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Right, after flying a 777 in the morning I always had to be extremely careful to put on my non fbw captains hat if I was flying a 737, 747 or 767 in the afternoon. Don’t think so - they all fly the same.


So you are going to sit there and lie and say the trim on the fbw and non fbw are exactly the same ?


No, I’m going to say I could fly a n-fbw for a couple of weeks and then hop in an fbw (or vice versa) and not skip a beat manually flying the airplane. I don’t have to think about the differences and I don’t think most other pilots would either.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:12 am

I'm sure they probably could in this hypothetical emergency scenario. I had the opportunity to fly a 737-800 simulator a few years ago and was able to manually land (albeit, in pretty agreeable conditions) with only a working knowledge of 737 systems gleaned from years of FS9, but no formal training whatsoever. I see no reason why a certified ATP wouldn't be able to take the reins of an unfamiliar aircraft and get it on the ground safely if the need arose.
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p277
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:45 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
zeke wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Right, after flying a 777 in the morning I always had to be extremely careful to put on my non fbw captains hat if I was flying a 737, 747 or 767 in the afternoon. Don’t think so - they all fly the same.


So you are going to sit there and lie and say the trim on the fbw and non fbw are exactly the same ?


No, I’m going to say I could fly a n-fbw for a couple of weeks and then hop in an fbw (or vice versa) and not skip a beat manually flying the airplane. I don’t have to think about the differences and I don’t think most other pilots would either.


I believe that's what most Boeing-background guys/gals would say too. You'll know when/how you need to trim, whether it's a conventional trim system à-la 75/76/747 or a TRS trim system à-la 777. To you as a pilot, it shouldn't make a difference in practice when hands-on, other than understanding how the systems work.
 
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Starlionblue
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Re: In an emergency, can a Boeing pilot fly an Airbus and vice versa?

Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:10 pm

STLflyer wrote:
Okay, so both pilots of an A320 ate the fish. Lets assume autoland isn't working for one reason or another, the plane has to be flown manually. The only person on board who can fly a plane and didn't have fish for dinner is a 737 pilot who has never been at the controls of an Airbus. How screwed is everybody?


Spoke to one of our chief pilots about this a while ago. AFAIK he has only ever flown Boeing airliners. He got to try an Airbus sim and it was apparently no biggie to land it. Probably not according to exact SOP but everyone would have been fine.

If you've only ever flown a light aircraft, you'd be in trouble. Assuming you're rated on an airliner, such contraptions move at comparable speeds and have systems that, while not identical, at least have equivalents across manufacturers. As for ATC and navaids, the ILS doesn't know what brand of tin is hurtling down the glidepath.
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