meecrob
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:44 pm

Crown wrote:
I was just wondering what I could do to prepare in the time from now.


I'm from Canada, so I don't know what the equivalent European publications would be, but you will have to get textbooks. I lucked out because am so obsessed with aviation (some would quite correctly say this is a curse), that I read them for fun. I looked forward to bowel movements because I would have my textbooks in the washroom ready for me to read for crying out loud. That gave me so much more of a boost than flightsim that you could not plot them on the same graph. My advice is to go to a flight school and tell them your ambitions, ask them what you will need to learn and learn it before you are required to be tested on it. Go do your ground school NOW! Get your radio operators license NOW! Basically my train of thought is remove any potential roadblocks to your ambition ASAP. I saw students who were brilliant fliers, but in the mix of going to high school and flying, they neglected their theory. They passed their PPL, but only then started to prepare for their theory test. It set one individual back almost a year as they were trying to get into a high level university and could not invest the time to study for high school and flying at the same time.

You are young, and unless they make kids different than they did when I was born, you are gonna be looking at trying to advance your social life and dare I say "chase tail." This WILL be a distraction no matter what. Its something that everyone deals with, but prepare for it. Yes they might be attractive now, but when you are retired are you going to say "I'm so glad I got with that woman when I was 17 even though I lost interest with her when I turned 18" or "I'm so glad I took an hour or two a night to study and I flew for a living"?

Playing flightsim is (in my opinion) a great way to appreciate your interest in aviation, but it should be done after you have set your life trajectory properly. Don't play flightsim when you could be doing something to advance your real life flying career.


Edited to give respect to mmo - I forgot about the medical. GO GET YOUR MEDICAL
Last edited by meecrob on Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1909
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:20 pm

meecrob wrote:
Crown wrote:
I was just wondering what I could do to prepare in the time from now.


I'm from Canada, so I don't know what the equivalent European publications would be, but you will have to get textbooks. I lucked out because am so obsessed with aviation (some would quite correctly say this is a curse), that I read them for fun. I looked forward to bowel movements because I would have my textbooks in the washroom ready for me to read for crying out loud. That gave me so much more of a boost than flightsim that you could not plot them on the same graph. My advice is to go to a flight school and tell them your ambitions, ask them what you will need to learn and learn it before you are required to be tested on it. Go do your ground school NOW! Get your radio operators license NOW! Basically my train of thought is remove any potential roadblocks to your ambition ASAP. I saw students who were brilliant fliers, but in the mix of going to high school and flying, they neglected their theory. They passed their PPL, but only then started to prepare for their theory test. It set one individual back almost a year as they were trying to get into a high level university and could not invest the time to study for high school and flying at the same time.

You are young, and unless they make kids different than they did when I was born, you are gonna be looking at trying to advance your social life and dare I say "chase tail." This WILL be a distraction no matter what. Its something that everyone deals with, but prepare for it. Yes they might be attractive now, but when you are retired are you going to say "I'm so glad I got with that woman when I was 17 even though I lost interest with her when I turned 18" or "I'm so glad I took an hour or two a night to study and I flew for a living"?

Playing flightsim is (in my opinion) a great way to appreciate your interest in aviation, but it should be done after you have set your life trajectory properly. Don't play flightsim when you could be doing something to advance your real life flying career.


Edited to give respect to mmo - I forgot about the medical. GO GET YOUR MEDICAL


Eh, if he wants to go for one of those integrated courses with the opportunity to go directly into an airline, then PPLs, radio certificates, ground school etc. are completely unnecessary, if not useless. Everything is done (or redone) on the integrated course, even if you did it before starting. If he wants to start the course as soon as possible, then he would just be throwing good money out of the window by doing that. He also has to do the EASA ATPL theory and exams, which are completely different from the PPL ones, and not something you just do in your spare time. That stuff is 6-9 months of hardcore full-time study.

Doing the medical is a good suggestion though. No need to invest any further time and money if you can't pass it.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 18546
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:51 am

My $0.02:

Well before flying real planes, I did a lot of MS Flight Simulator. I even did the "flying lessons" included. Didn't learn a lot about hand flying, but I did learn stuff like how to track a VOR radial with six-pack instruments. (Backing up a bit, MSFS taught me what the heck a VOR is and what the heck it does!) Sure, I would have learned that in flight school, but any extra bit of background helps, and you're not paying $150+ an hour in MSFS. When I had to track a real radial it was a matter of practice, not initial bafflement at moving needles.

MSFS certainly isn't real flying, or real simulator flying, but it can give you a lot of useful background. The important thing though, and I cannot stress this enough, is to understand that you cannot carry your MSFS "experience" with you into real flight training as more than just background. You will not learn how to manage systems in MSFS, nor will you learn about how an aircraft handles with an engine out, beyond the basics of "yaws towards the dead engine".

One thing I have noticed is a certain amount of MSFS induced myopia among certain eager prospective pilots. As if MSFS is all you need as background. It certainly is not, and should only be a small part of how you spend your time in order to build your knowledge base.
- Read. A lot. Everything from the introductory "A Pilot's Guide to Aeronautical Knowledge" to heavier fare like "Handling the Big Jets" is great stuff, even if you might not quite grasp it all yet. And don't forget non-technical stuff like airline histories. Working at an airline is more than being a pilot. It is entering a corporate culture with its own norms and ideals. "About our Airline" sections on corporate websites are certainly worth studying before an interview.
- Listen to LiveATC while looking at charts of the relevant airport. Try to sketch where aircraft are in space based solely on radio comms. Achieving situational awareness of traffic solely from radio is an essential skill for a pilot.

Again though, remember this is background, not approved training material.

As others have mentioned, having a passion for aviation is crucial to building a career in aviation. If you've spent hundreds of hours of your free time in MSFS, reading books, listening to ATC, reading the Aviation Herald and so on, it shows passion. It shouldn't be the top bullet in the "why you should hire me!" list on your resume though.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
meecrob
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:23 am

VSMUT wrote:
meecrob wrote:
Crown wrote:
I was just wondering what I could do to prepare in the time from now.


I'm from Canada, so I don't know what the equivalent European publications would be, but you will have to get textbooks. I lucked out because am so obsessed with aviation (some would quite correctly say this is a curse), that I read them for fun. I looked forward to bowel movements because I would have my textbooks in the washroom ready for me to read for crying out loud. That gave me so much more of a boost than flightsim that you could not plot them on the same graph. My advice is to go to a flight school and tell them your ambitions, ask them what you will need to learn and learn it before you are required to be tested on it. Go do your ground school NOW! Get your radio operators license NOW! Basically my train of thought is remove any potential roadblocks to your ambition ASAP. I saw students who were brilliant fliers, but in the mix of going to high school and flying, they neglected their theory. They passed their PPL, but only then started to prepare for their theory test. It set one individual back almost a year as they were trying to get into a high level university and could not invest the time to study for high school and flying at the same time.

You are young, and unless they make kids different than they did when I was born, you are gonna be looking at trying to advance your social life and dare I say "chase tail." This WILL be a distraction no matter what. Its something that everyone deals with, but prepare for it. Yes they might be attractive now, but when you are retired are you going to say "I'm so glad I got with that woman when I was 17 even though I lost interest with her when I turned 18" or "I'm so glad I took an hour or two a night to study and I flew for a living"?

Playing flightsim is (in my opinion) a great way to appreciate your interest in aviation, but it should be done after you have set your life trajectory properly. Don't play flightsim when you could be doing something to advance your real life flying career.


Edited to give respect to mmo - I forgot about the medical. GO GET YOUR MEDICAL


Eh, if he wants to go for one of those integrated courses with the opportunity to go directly into an airline, then PPLs, radio certificates, ground school etc. are completely unnecessary, if not useless. Everything is done (or redone) on the integrated course, even if you did it before starting. If he wants to start the course as soon as possible, then he would just be throwing good money out of the window by doing that. He also has to do the EASA ATPL theory and exams, which are completely different from the PPL ones, and not something you just do in your spare time. That stuff is 6-9 months of hardcore full-time study.

Doing the medical is a good suggestion though. No need to invest any further time and money if you can't pass it.


Excellent point, I fear I expressed too many of my own hurdles without making my point more relevant to the OP or anyone else in Europe. I think its painfully obvious that I clearly have no idea how it works in Europe (I get to mingle with freight dogs in the Arctic), so for that, thanks for calling me out on my short-sightedness. What I will say is that there is no better feeling than having a flight instructor grill you on something and you are 100% confident you know you can accomplish anything they want you to do. Study, study, study and don't accept mediocrity from yourself. Be the best you can be. If you can do that while playing flightsim, then cool. If you think playing flightsim replaces studying, you might want to re-evaluate your thoughts or you will quite frankly be fooling yourself.


PS - mmo suggested the class 1, so all credit should be given to him for his suggestion, I merely repeated it.

Nothing worthwhile comes easy.
 
Crown
Topic Author
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:11 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:23 pm

meecrob wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
meecrob wrote:

I'm from Canada, so I don't know what the equivalent European publications would be, but you will have to get textbooks. I lucked out because am so obsessed with aviation (some would quite correctly say this is a curse), that I read them for fun. I looked forward to bowel movements because I would have my textbooks in the washroom ready for me to read for crying out loud. That gave me so much more of a boost than flightsim that you could not plot them on the same graph. My advice is to go to a flight school and tell them your ambitions, ask them what you will need to learn and learn it before you are required to be tested on it. Go do your ground school NOW! Get your radio operators license NOW! Basically my train of thought is remove any potential roadblocks to your ambition ASAP. I saw students who were brilliant fliers, but in the mix of going to high school and flying, they neglected their theory. They passed their PPL, but only then started to prepare for their theory test. It set one individual back almost a year as they were trying to get into a high level university and could not invest the time to study for high school and flying at the same time.

You are young, and unless they make kids different than they did when I was born, you are gonna be looking at trying to advance your social life and dare I say "chase tail." This WILL be a distraction no matter what. Its something that everyone deals with, but prepare for it. Yes they might be attractive now, but when you are retired are you going to say "I'm so glad I got with that woman when I was 17 even though I lost interest with her when I turned 18" or "I'm so glad I took an hour or two a night to study and I flew for a living"?

Playing flightsim is (in my opinion) a great way to appreciate your interest in aviation, but it should be done after you have set your life trajectory properly. Don't play flightsim when you could be doing something to advance your real life flying career.


Edited to give respect to mmo - I forgot about the medical. GO GET YOUR MEDICAL


Eh, if he wants to go for one of those integrated courses with the opportunity to go directly into an airline, then PPLs, radio certificates, ground school etc. are completely unnecessary, if not useless. Everything is done (or redone) on the integrated course, even if you did it before starting. If he wants to start the course as soon as possible, then he would just be throwing good money out of the window by doing that. He also has to do the EASA ATPL theory and exams, which are completely different from the PPL ones, and not something you just do in your spare time. That stuff is 6-9 months of hardcore full-time study.

Doing the medical is a good suggestion though. No need to invest any further time and money if you can't pass it.


Excellent point, I fear I expressed too many of my own hurdles without making my point more relevant to the OP or anyone else in Europe. I think its painfully obvious that I clearly have no idea how it works in Europe (I get to mingle with freight dogs in the Arctic), so for that, thanks for calling me out on my short-sightedness. What I will say is that there is no better feeling than having a flight instructor grill you on something and you are 100% confident you know you can accomplish anything they want you to do. Study, study, study and don't accept mediocrity from yourself. Be the best you can be. If you can do that while playing flightsim, then cool. If you think playing flightsim replaces studying, you might want to re-evaluate your thoughts or you will quite frankly be fooling yourself.


PS - mmo suggested the class 1, so all credit should be given to him for his suggestion, I merely repeated it.

Nothing worthwhile comes easy.



Are there any books you could recommend for studying.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1909
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:12 pm

Crown wrote:
Excellent point, I fear I expressed too many of my own hurdles without making my point more relevant to the OP or anyone else in Europe. I think its painfully obvious that I clearly have no idea how it works in Europe (I get to mingle with freight dogs in the Arctic), so for that, thanks for calling me out on my short-sightedness. What I will say is that there is no better feeling than having a flight instructor grill you on something and you are 100% confident you know you can accomplish anything they want you to do. Study, study, study and don't accept mediocrity from yourself. Be the best you can be. If you can do that while playing flightsim, then cool. If you think playing flightsim replaces studying, you might want to re-evaluate your thoughts or you will quite frankly be fooling yourself.


No probs, just how different these new integrated courses are compared to how it was done in the past surprises me as well ;) It's a lot more like university or high school than in the past. The hard study and grilling by the instructors is still there though, so those points still stand.
The MPL program is even more radical. It reduces your training in GA aircraft, and you don't even get a license that allows you to rent a Cessna. Those licenses are strictly for use in multi-crew aircraft.

Crown wrote:
Are there any books you could recommend for studying.


Nothing in particular, a mix of anything aviation is a bonus. I could suggest a bunch of the heavy textbooks used during ATPL classes, but you probably won't understand a fraction of it unless you have an instructor at hand. My suggestion would be for something that gives a light overview, such as "The Aeroplane Technical" by Pooley's. Something like "Vulcan 607" wouldn't be too bad either, just to keep you in the mood, and magazines like "Flight International" and "Airways". Visit a bunch of schools to find out which one suits you best. Go to airshows. Visit aviation museums. Train yourself in basic maths skills such as multiplication, addition, subtraction and division, but without the use of calculators. Don't bother too much with being able to do advanced mathematical formulas by hard in your head, you will barely use anything like that. Don't tire yourself with heavy and boring textbooks - the ATPL theory classes will do that for you, no problem.

If you go for an integrated course, you aren't expected to know anything before you join (but knowing something is good anyway). Thats more or less the point of an integrated course. It takes you from street to cockpit in 2 years, teaching you everything you need along the way. All the school wants to see before you start is that you have the money, the passion and at least basic skills learned from school. Remember, you are there to learn, not to prove that you know it all already.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 18546
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:09 am

Crown wrote:

Are there any books you could recommend for studying.


Here's a list. Again though, remember this is background, not syllabus. Several are available for free online from the FAA, but if you prefer dead tree editions these exist as well.

Introductory
- FAA Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge.
- FAA Airplane Flying Handbook.
- Stick and Rudder – Wolfgang Langewiesche. Written in 1944, it is still valid today for basic flying manoeuvres.

Instrument work
- FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook.
- FAA Instrument Flying Handbook.

Twin engine flying
- Transition to Twins – David Robson

Airliner flying
- Handling the Big Jets – D.P. Davies. A 50-year old classic and a tough nut to crack but if you understand it you will understand high-speed aerodynamics and jet engines.
- Fly the Wing – Jim Webb & William Walker.
- Flying the Big Jets – Stanley Stewart. Not that “advanced” but a good introduction to airliner operations.

Historical
- Fate is the Hunter – Ernest Gann. This memoir of flying the 30s, 40s and 50s is a must read for every prospective pilot.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
meecrob
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:15 am

Starlionblue wrote:
Crown wrote:

Are there any books you could recommend for studying.


Here's a list. Again though, remember this is background, not syllabus. Several are available for free online from the FAA, but if you prefer dead tree editions these exist as well.

Introductory
- FAA Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge.
- FAA Airplane Flying Handbook.
- Stick and Rudder – Wolfgang Langewiesche. Written in 1944, it is still valid today for basic flying manoeuvres.

Instrument work
- FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook.
- FAA Instrument Flying Handbook.

Twin engine flying
- Transition to Twins – David Robson

Airliner flying
- Handling the Big Jets – D.P. Davies. A 50-year old classic and a tough nut to crack but if you understand it you will understand high-speed aerodynamics and jet engines.
- Fly the Wing – Jim Webb & William Walker.
- Flying the Big Jets – Stanley Stewart. Not that “advanced” but a good introduction to airliner operations.

Historical
- Fate is the Hunter – Ernest Gann. This memoir of flying the 30s, 40s and 50s is a must read for every prospective pilot.



That's a way better list than I have without digging through some boxes from when I moved last, but one addition I have is if you know what plane you will be flying, I found it helpful to read the Pilot Operators Handbook (might be called other things around the world - I'm the least worldly pilot ever). Textbooks can teach you the theory, but to be able to attach actual numbers to the theories helped me a lot. For instance, I had one of those companion workbook texts where you study the text book, then test yourself with questions in the workbook. To keep this short, I'll keep it to fuel burn based on RPM setting as an example. I studied and got the correct answer in the workbook. Then, I re-did the question with the figures from the POH and gained the knowledge the textbook taught me but in relation to the aircraft I was flying. Next flight, I was about to do circuits with my instructor and during the preflight he asked me if I wanted him to call the fuel bowser to top up the tanks in the meantime. I told him "no, we have about 2.5 hours left." It impressed him, and was a huge boost to my confidence. (Keep in mind this was before my first solo. My school always topped up the tanks for students who hadn't soloed and we were taught fuel management after they knew you weren't about to go bend their plane by incompetence.)

To bring this full circle to the topic, There is no emphasis on fuel management in flightsim (among many, many other aspects of "flying and not killing yourself"), unless you impose it on yourself. One of the most important parts of flying is to pre-plan for anything that can happen to you. They always say things like "stay 5 minutes ahead of the plane." Part of that is knowing your plane inside and out. Flightsim cannot judge your ability to stay ahead of the plane like a flight instructor.
 
Crown
Topic Author
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:11 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:13 am

meecrob wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:
Crown wrote:

Are there any books you could recommend for studying.


Here's a list. Again though, remember this is background, not syllabus. Several are available for free online from the FAA, but if you prefer dead tree editions these exist as well.

Introductory
- FAA Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge.
- FAA Airplane Flying Handbook.
- Stick and Rudder – Wolfgang Langewiesche. Written in 1944, it is still valid today for basic flying manoeuvres.

Instrument work
- FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook.
- FAA Instrument Flying Handbook.

Twin engine flying
- Transition to Twins – David Robson

Airliner flying
- Handling the Big Jets – D.P. Davies. A 50-year old classic and a tough nut to crack but if you understand it you will understand high-speed aerodynamics and jet engines.
- Fly the Wing – Jim Webb & William Walker.
- Flying the Big Jets – Stanley Stewart. Not that “advanced” but a good introduction to airliner operations.

Historical
- Fate is the Hunter – Ernest Gann. This memoir of flying the 30s, 40s and 50s is a must read for every prospective pilot.



That's a way better list than I have without digging through some boxes from when I moved last, but one addition I have is if you know what plane you will be flying, I found it helpful to read the Pilot Operators Handbook (might be called other things around the world - I'm the least worldly pilot ever). Textbooks can teach you the theory, but to be able to attach actual numbers to the theories helped me a lot. For instance, I had one of those companion workbook texts where you study the text book, then test yourself with questions in the workbook. To keep this short, I'll keep it to fuel burn based on RPM setting as an example. I studied and got the correct answer in the workbook. Then, I re-did the question with the figures from the POH and gained the knowledge the textbook taught me but in relation to the aircraft I was flying. Next flight, I was about to do circuits with my instructor and during the preflight he asked me if I wanted him to call the fuel bowser to top up the tanks in the meantime. I told him "no, we have about 2.5 hours left." It impressed him, and was a huge boost to my confidence. (Keep in mind this was before my first solo. My school always topped up the tanks for students who hadn't soloed and we were taught fuel management after they knew you weren't about to go bend their plane by incompetence.)

To bring this full circle to the topic, There is no emphasis on fuel management in flightsim (among many, many other aspects of "flying and not killing yourself"), unless you impose it on yourself. One of the most important parts of flying is to pre-plan for anything that can happen to you. They always say things like "stay 5 minutes ahead of the plane." Part of that is knowing your plane inside and out. Flightsim cannot judge your ability to stay ahead of the plane like a flight instructor.



I sort of have an idea about which aircraft I would be flying on because a lot of the airlines over here have the same sort of aircraft for example Virgin uses the A330 for there Atpl applicants to fly once they get there wings so if I wanted to go with Virgin then I would buy an A330 Manuel?
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1627
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:32 am

I would personally not attempt to learn or purchase any airline aircraft manuals, although that is what flight simmers do all the time in their attempt to fly their flight simulator as “realistic” as they can. Yes airbus and Boeing aircraft are flown by airlines all over the world.

Each airline has its own unique procedures for operating an aircraft. The procedures one airline uses to operate a 330 is different from the procedures used by a different airline to fly their 330. The weight of the 330s could be all different between 330 operators depending on the weight variant used by the airline as an example. One airline may have paid extra to gain a 15 knot tailwind limitation for takeoff versus the normal 10 knot tailwind limitation at another airline on the same type as another example.

I would focus on learning just the basics of flying in the list of reading provided in previous posts and not focus on learning aircraft and airline specific information.

you will be learning how to operate different aircraft over the course of a career and after several aircraft over time, the numbers and procedures start getting jumbled up in your memory. So at the very worst you’re learning extra information that you’ll need to forget when you Get assigned to your aircraft when you do get hired at your first airline.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 18546
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:38 am

Crown wrote:
meecrob wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:

Here's a list. Again though, remember this is background, not syllabus. Several are available for free online from the FAA, but if you prefer dead tree editions these exist as well.

Introductory
- FAA Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge.
- FAA Airplane Flying Handbook.
- Stick and Rudder – Wolfgang Langewiesche. Written in 1944, it is still valid today for basic flying manoeuvres.

Instrument work
- FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook.
- FAA Instrument Flying Handbook.

Twin engine flying
- Transition to Twins – David Robson

Airliner flying
- Handling the Big Jets – D.P. Davies. A 50-year old classic and a tough nut to crack but if you understand it you will understand high-speed aerodynamics and jet engines.
- Fly the Wing – Jim Webb & William Walker.
- Flying the Big Jets – Stanley Stewart. Not that “advanced” but a good introduction to airliner operations.

Historical
- Fate is the Hunter – Ernest Gann. This memoir of flying the 30s, 40s and 50s is a must read for every prospective pilot.



That's a way better list than I have without digging through some boxes from when I moved last, but one addition I have is if you know what plane you will be flying, I found it helpful to read the Pilot Operators Handbook (might be called other things around the world - I'm the least worldly pilot ever). Textbooks can teach you the theory, but to be able to attach actual numbers to the theories helped me a lot. For instance, I had one of those companion workbook texts where you study the text book, then test yourself with questions in the workbook. To keep this short, I'll keep it to fuel burn based on RPM setting as an example. I studied and got the correct answer in the workbook. Then, I re-did the question with the figures from the POH and gained the knowledge the textbook taught me but in relation to the aircraft I was flying. Next flight, I was about to do circuits with my instructor and during the preflight he asked me if I wanted him to call the fuel bowser to top up the tanks in the meantime. I told him "no, we have about 2.5 hours left." It impressed him, and was a huge boost to my confidence. (Keep in mind this was before my first solo. My school always topped up the tanks for students who hadn't soloed and we were taught fuel management after they knew you weren't about to go bend their plane by incompetence.)

To bring this full circle to the topic, There is no emphasis on fuel management in flightsim (among many, many other aspects of "flying and not killing yourself"), unless you impose it on yourself. One of the most important parts of flying is to pre-plan for anything that can happen to you. They always say things like "stay 5 minutes ahead of the plane." Part of that is knowing your plane inside and out. Flightsim cannot judge your ability to stay ahead of the plane like a flight instructor.



I sort of have an idea about which aircraft I would be flying on because a lot of the airlines over here have the same sort of aircraft for example Virgin uses the A330 for there Atpl applicants to fly once they get there wings so if I wanted to go with Virgin then I would buy an A330 Manuel?


Nope. You don't know what you'll be flying until you're assigned to that fleet. As a prospective airline pilot, life can be pretty uncertain.

As I said way upthread, this is background. It is useful but don't try think of it as operational knowledge.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
meecrob
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:24 am

Crown wrote:
meecrob wrote:
Starlionblue wrote:

Here's a list. Again though, remember this is background, not syllabus. Several are available for free online from the FAA, but if you prefer dead tree editions these exist as well.

Introductory
- FAA Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge.
- FAA Airplane Flying Handbook.
- Stick and Rudder – Wolfgang Langewiesche. Written in 1944, it is still valid today for basic flying manoeuvres.

Instrument work
- FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook.
- FAA Instrument Flying Handbook.

Twin engine flying
- Transition to Twins – David Robson

Airliner flying
- Handling the Big Jets – D.P. Davies. A 50-year old classic and a tough nut to crack but if you understand it you will understand high-speed aerodynamics and jet engines.
- Fly the Wing – Jim Webb & William Walker.
- Flying the Big Jets – Stanley Stewart. Not that “advanced” but a good introduction to airliner operations.

Historical
- Fate is the Hunter – Ernest Gann. This memoir of flying the 30s, 40s and 50s is a must read for every prospective pilot.



That's a way better list than I have without digging through some boxes from when I moved last, but one addition I have is if you know what plane you will be flying, I found it helpful to read the Pilot Operators Handbook (might be called other things around the world - I'm the least worldly pilot ever). Textbooks can teach you the theory, but to be able to attach actual numbers to the theories helped me a lot. For instance, I had one of those companion workbook texts where you study the text book, then test yourself with questions in the workbook. To keep this short, I'll keep it to fuel burn based on RPM setting as an example. I studied and got the correct answer in the workbook. Then, I re-did the question with the figures from the POH and gained the knowledge the textbook taught me but in relation to the aircraft I was flying. Next flight, I was about to do circuits with my instructor and during the preflight he asked me if I wanted him to call the fuel bowser to top up the tanks in the meantime. I told him "no, we have about 2.5 hours left." It impressed him, and was a huge boost to my confidence. (Keep in mind this was before my first solo. My school always topped up the tanks for students who hadn't soloed and we were taught fuel management after they knew you weren't about to go bend their plane by incompetence.)

To bring this full circle to the topic, There is no emphasis on fuel management in flightsim (among many, many other aspects of "flying and not killing yourself"), unless you impose it on yourself. One of the most important parts of flying is to pre-plan for anything that can happen to you. They always say things like "stay 5 minutes ahead of the plane." Part of that is knowing your plane inside and out. Flightsim cannot judge your ability to stay ahead of the plane like a flight instructor.



I sort of have an idea about which aircraft I would be flying on because a lot of the airlines over here have the same sort of aircraft for example Virgin uses the A330 for there Atpl applicants to fly once they get there wings so if I wanted to go with Virgin then I would buy an A330 Manuel?



My bad here. I should have specified that my example was more an example of training for a PPL on the first step to their ATPL. My interpretation was that the OP has not started training so I was trying to give examples of things that they can do to nurture their passion until they are able to start training. Any plane you fly past your PPL, I totally agree with you guys calling me out. My apologies OP, I gave you the wrong impression. My 172 POH cost maybe $50...I have no clue what an A330 manual would cost, but even if you get one, it's not carrier specific. I contradicted my point, as Woodreau and Starlionblue pointed out. I should have specified that I meant the initial training plane you will fly, not the plane you aspire to fly. My thoughts are from the fact the OP expressed interest in studying ahead of time, and I felt the same feeling when I was going through it and I like to encourage like minded people...I got ahead of myself. Don't listen to me about big jets, I don't fly them. I've only flown turboprops a few times as a treat from an instructor...I'm still building hours on twin pistons.

Overall, I'm happy I said something stupid for more experienced people than me to call me out because I hope that gave the OP better answers than I gave. Thanks, never felt better for my ignorance because now I am digging through that box of books because you guys gave me a kick in the butt.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:57 pm

Crown wrote:
I sort of have an idea about which aircraft I would be flying on because a lot of the airlines over here have the same sort of aircraft for example Virgin uses the A330 for there Atpl applicants to fly once they get there wings so if I wanted to go with Virgin then I would buy an A330 Manuel?


This post shows you got absolutely no clue of how the pilot job market works. As a pilot you never know at what airline you're going to end up with and thus what type of aircraft you'll be flying. Given the fact that there are still thousands of unemployed pilots out there looking for a job it's not like you got much choice in what airline you want to fly for. You just got to take whatever opportunity you come across. That includes airlines, but not every pilot works for an airline. If you're an unemployed pilot and you get a chance to fly a business jet, sure you take it. At that point in time you know nothing about that specific business jet, but no worries. You know the basics of flying and you'll learn that type of aircraft as you go. During your carreer you'll learn a lot of different types of aircraft. No use learning that all up-front as that's undoable. Just learn the basics of flying, the rest comes later.
 
meecrob
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:58 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
This post shows you got absolutely no clue of how the pilot job market works


Of course he doesn't. He's 16 and asking people who hopefully have insight on how it works. This isn't a dick waving contest.....crap, I forgot pilots are around, my bad. Carry on telling the guy he's stupid.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:26 am

meecrob wrote:
Carry on telling the guy he's stupid.


I never said he was stupid, only that he has a lot to learn. Most of that has nothing to do with flying itself.
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3031
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:44 am

Crown wrote:
I was just wondering what I could do to prepare in the time from now.


Start reading the publications that are readily available.

For us, in the US, that would be things like the Airplane Flying Handbook and the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge

I'm sure EASA has similar publications.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
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Starlionblue
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:50 am

Longhornmaniac wrote:
Crown wrote:
I was just wondering what I could do to prepare in the time from now.


Start reading the publications that are readily available.

For us, in the US, that would be things like the Airplane Flying Handbook and the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge

I'm sure EASA has similar publications.


Those books are excellent background regardless of location. The regulations aren't so different that you will have a hard time starting your reading with these FAA books and transitioning later.

Also, free!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Crown
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Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:40 am

We have the same over here but the caa
 
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PowerliftDrsTX
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:51 pm

Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:51 pm

Crown wrote:
Hello

I just wanted to know from a second opinion does having a home flight simulator help you get into the airlines.
I am about to send mine back because I have a lot going on at the moment but next year ill be applying to either CATS or L3Cts and wanted to know whether it would be beneficial for me to keep it
because surely I will remember it and they will be teaching me all of that anyway.



It wont help you get a job, no. What it will help you with is (as it did for me) is the speed and script of ATC. By the time I started my flight training in real aircraft, I had (like a giant dork) spent years upgrading my home PC sim setup and components. I had already "flown" around the world in a Baron because I clearly had nothing better to do! The benefit was that it really helped me learn that many ATC encounters are a scripted dialogue and the "radio fears" that afflict most students was virtually a non-issue.
 
Crown
Topic Author
Posts: 14
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Re: Will having a flight simulator help me get an airline job?

Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:46 pm

Im also going to speak to my cousin for advice as he is a Captain for Cathay Pacific

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