flapsdown40
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Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:10 am

Hello all. This post is actually a question for airline pilots and passengers who flew (frequently) across the Atlantic ocean to/from the US to either Paris or London. The question has to do with the sonic boom that was generated by Concorde as it wizzed through the air at Mach 2.

So, here is my question: Was the sonic boom generated by Concorde at any speed above Mach 1 audible from inside any *conventional* airliner such as a 747 if it (the 747) was within a few miles or so either side of the flight track of Concorde as it passed above the 747?

Perhaps along with that previous question is if the sonic boom was audible at sea level from aboard an ocean liner or commercial tanker or container ship sailing across the Atlantic if a Concorde jet just happened to pass overhead at Mach 1+?

Thank you in advance for any answers or experiences regarding my question.

Flapsdown 40
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zanl188
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:35 am

In a pressurized aircraft the boom would not be heard. Might be felt thru the airframe, but probably not recognized as a sonic boom. “Turbulence”
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teme82
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:41 am

I would think that the Concorde would fly a path that it would not directly fly over other airplanes. But then again it's flying so high that any turbulence would been small for other planes in normal cruising altitudes. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
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nighthawk
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:47 am

flapsdown40 wrote:

Perhaps along with that previous question is if the sonic boom was audible at sea level from aboard an ocean liner or commercial tanker or container ship sailing across the Atlantic if a Concorde jet just happened to pass overhead at Mach 1+?


It most certainly was.. here's a video from a ship as Concorde passes overhead.

It's also worth pointing out that the sonic boom doesn't just occur at the moment Concorde passes through the sound barrier, but follows behind the aircraft for the whole duration it travels above Mach 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbPh2llw0-M
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:03 pm

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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:12 pm

flapsdown40 wrote:
Perhaps along with that previous question is if the sonic boom was audible at sea level from aboard an ocean liner or commercial tanker or container ship sailing across the Atlantic if a Concorde jet just happened to pass overhead at Mach 1+?

Thank you in advance for any answers or experiences regarding my question.

Flapsdown 40


I grew up on the south west coast of Ireland and I remember we would regularly hear the boom of Concorde as it went supersonic
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:40 pm

On a somewhat related note, if one was in a normal widebody cruising at .80 or greater, and the Concorde wizzed by at Mach 2, can anyone describe how fast that aircraft would have flown by the other aircraft? I know the Concorde would have been much higher, but just for conversation sake. You often see other airliners getting overtaken or overrun when inflight or on all the YouTube vids. So what if the other aircraft was the Concorde? How quickly would Mach 2 look from a jet going .80?
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:06 pm

teme82 wrote:
I would think that the Concorde would fly a path that it would not directly fly over other airplanes. But then again it's flying so high that any turbulence would been small for other planes in normal cruising altitudes. Do correct me if I'm wrong.


The boom is actually a set of cones constantly trailing the points on the aircraft where the airstream goes supersonic (the most important being at the nose and tail, hence the "double-boom").

(A bit difficult to describe but basically it's the effect of the sound emanating from those points at the speed of sound, while the points themselves are moving forwards at more than the speed of sound. The "shock" is because all the sound pressure stacks up and arrives at the same time for the bystander. There's probably a graphic on WikiPedia to do it justice... - edit: yep... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_boom )

The strength of the sound becomes weaker the further you are from the flightpath, but you don't have to be right next to the flightpath to hear it.

That's why you could hear it on the south coast of Ireland (as I did twice daily during a holiday in the 1990s) even though the flightpath was miles out to sea.
Last edited by SomebodyInTLS on Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:28 pm

I was just watching the second of the two youtube videos posted by Keesje above........I noticed that the creator of the video emphasizes that the concorde took off at very high speed and in the video it certainly seems to be going faster just before t/o, than most regular jets....question I have is, if that is true, why was the concorde required to attain higher speeds on takeoff? Given its size, was it really necessary? Going supersonic happens much later in the flight so why such high speeds on t/o?
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:34 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:
I was just watching the second of the two youtube videos posted by Keesje above........I noticed that the creator of the video emphasizes that the concorde took off at very high speed and in the video it certainly seems to be going faster just before t/o, than most regular jets....question I have is, if that is true, why was the concorde required to attain higher speeds on takeoff? Given its size, was it really necessary? Going supersonic happens much later in the flight so why such high speeds on t/o?


Because of the delta wing design and lack of high-lift devices (slats, split flaps, etc). That's why swing wings were popular for a time: Lift at slow speeds, lower drag tucked up like a delta wing when going fast.
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:34 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:
I was just watching the second of the two youtube videos posted by Keesje above........I noticed that the creator of the video emphasizes that the concorde took off at very high speed and in the video it certainly seems to be going faster just before t/o, than most regular jets....question I have is, if that is true, why was the concorde required to attain higher speeds on takeoff? Given its size, was it really necessary? Going supersonic happens much later in the flight so why such high speeds on t/o?


The wing is designed for better supersonic performance which makes it a poor performer at low speeds.

Short stubby wings, swept back inside the shockwave created by the nose, produce less resistance at supersonic speeds. Long, slender, straight wings at 90 degrees from the fuselage (think glider) produce a lot of lift at low speeds where the drag is less of an issue. That's why some military aircraft are swing-wing - stick out for better take-off and landing performance, tuck in for better high speed performance.

You can even "feel" intuitively how this works - think how birds spread their wings wide to land but a falcon will tuck them in for a high-speed dive and a kingfisher will tuck them in just before hitting the water.
Last edited by SomebodyInTLS on Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:35 pm

As above, the wings (and engines) are designed for efficiency and performance at high altitudes and high speeds, where Concorde would spend the majority of its operating time. The tradeoff is that
the wings are not so effective or efficient at lower speeds, which meant (amongst other things) a higher takeoff speed than traditional airliners with less wing sweep and more effective high lift devices. It's the same with the engines, which were horribly inefficient at low speeds (allegedly Concorde burned around a ton of fuel just taxiing to the runway)
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:49 pm

trnswrld wrote:
On a somewhat related note, if one was in a normal widebody cruising at .80 or greater, and the Concorde wizzed by at Mach 2, can anyone describe how fast that aircraft would have flown by the other aircraft? I know the Concorde would have been much higher, but just for conversation sake. You often see other airliners getting overtaken or overrun when inflight or on all the YouTube vids. So what if the other aircraft was the Concorde? How quickly would Mach 2 look from a jet going .80?

It would look like Mach 1.2.
No joke.
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:57 pm

Gr8Circle wrote:
I was just watching the second of the two youtube videos posted by Keesje above........I noticed that the creator of the video emphasizes that the concorde took off at very high speed and in the video it certainly seems to be going faster just before t/o, than most regular jets....question I have is, if that is true, why was the concorde required to attain higher speeds on takeoff? Given its size, was it really necessary? Going supersonic happens much later in the flight so why such high speeds on t/o?

Concorde's wings generated relatively little aerodynamic lift in subsonic flight as they were optimized for supersonic cruise. Lift scales with speed and with pitch angle; that is why Concorde had to go very fast and very nose-up on takeoff (and on landing).
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:57 pm

Used to hear her making the jump around 11am here just East of Cardiff. Everyone around here that can remember the 80's/90's/00's will remember the boom.

You'd see a little white arrow followed by boom boom. Bit like the Dolorean in BTTF.
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:05 pm

trnswrld wrote:
So what if the other aircraft was the Concorde? How quickly would Mach 2 look from a jet going .80?


The visual appearance of speed largely depends on distance, because the further away an object is the fewer number of degrees in your field of view it's traversing given the same speed.

If Concorde was only 1,000 feet higher than the plane you're in, it would look very fast compared to the subsonic airplane you're in. It would be like watching a fighter jet doing a low-altitude supersonic fly-by at an air show, while you're sitting stationary on the ground. (It would be like when someone on the highway says "he passed us like we were standing still.")

But in most cases Concorde would be around 20,000 feet above the next closest plane while flying supersonic, and it probably would be a bit off to the side as well even on the same route. So you're talking about 5 miles of distance between it and any other plane. At that distance, it would clearly be going faster than you in that subsonic plane, but you'd have it in your field of view much longer. It would be more like being in a car on a highway and watching a plane take off on a runway 5 miles away. That plane is going probably three times the speed of your car, but it doesn't look all that fast from that distance.
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:52 pm

I'm curious about whether sonic booms from the Concordes were frequently observed aboard ocean liners like the Queen Elizabeth II? A number of vacation packages were sold in which the Concorde would fly one direction across the Atlantic, and return via an ocean liner. Would any ocean liners have been routed so they could experience a sonic boom?
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:47 pm

Perhaps an ignorant question, but did the boom follow the aircraft as it continued to fly? Or did the boom dissipate once Mach 1 was broken, furthermore, do supersonic planes produce a boom every time they break a Mach?
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:06 am

spacecadet wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
So what if the other aircraft was the Concorde? How quickly would Mach 2 look from a jet going .80?


The visual appearance of speed largely depends on distance, because the further away an object is the fewer number of degrees in your field of view it's traversing given the same speed.

If Concorde was only 1,000 feet higher than the plane you're in, it would look very fast compared to the subsonic airplane you're in. It would be like watching a fighter jet doing a low-altitude supersonic fly-by at an air show, while you're sitting stationary on the ground. (It would be like when someone on the highway says "he passed us like we were standing still.")

But in most cases Concorde would be around 20,000 feet above the next closest plane while flying supersonic, and it probably would be a bit off to the side as well even on the same route. So you're talking about 5 miles of distance between it and any other plane. At that distance, it would clearly be going faster than you in that subsonic plane, but you'd have it in your field of view much longer. It would be more like being in a car on a highway and watching a plane take off on a runway 5 miles away. That plane is going probably three times the speed of your car, but it doesn't look all that fast from that distance.


Exactly the explanation I was looking for. Thank you.
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:18 am

The Concorde amazes me. It was such a technological marvel for it's time. Watching those videos above just fill me with awe. It feels like aviation technology is moving along so slowly the last few decades, with just incremental improvements over time. Look at airliners in 1939, and then in 1969 when both Concorde and the 747 first flew. Gigantic leaps forward. We basically went from DC-3 to Concorde. Then look at 1988 and 2018. Same timespan, relatively small improvements.

Much of this is probably related to the technology achieved through WWII and the Cold War. But still. Sorry for a bit off-topic.
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:24 am

keesje wrote:


How I so miss that!!!!
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:42 am

eal wrote:
Perhaps an ignorant question, but did the boom follow the aircraft as it continued to fly? Or did the boom dissipate once Mach 1 was broken, furthermore, do supersonic planes produce a boom every time they break a Mach?


The boom was always produced constantly above the speed of sound. If the aircraft passes overhead where you are, you'll hear it. If you could then beam yourself 30km ahead of the plane on its course, you'll hear it again.

Additionally, there is a "boom carpet" which is the region in which the boom will be heard. There is an old French booklet talking about supersonic aerodynamics which has a good section about the sonic boom. If I can find it, I'll post it.

JetBuddy wrote:
The Concorde amazes me. It was such a technological marvel for it's time. Watching those videos above just fill me with awe. It feels like aviation technology is moving along so slowly the last few decades, with just incremental improvements over time. Look at airliners in 1939, and then in 1969 when both Concorde and the 747 first flew. Gigantic leaps forward. We basically went from DC-3 to Concorde. Then look at 1988 and 2018. Same timespan, relatively small improvements.

Much of this is probably related to the technology achieved through WWII and the Cold War. But still. Sorry for a bit off-topic.


Well, maybe the subsonic airliners had a benefit from cold war military technology, but Concorde certainly didn't. By the time Concorde was underway - supersonic strategic bombers were pretty much off the cards because missiles came into existence that could reliably shoot down such aircraft. So pretty much everything for Concorde had to be developed from scratch.

Even the TU-144 didn't get developed into the proposed military derivatives.
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:40 am

I can tell you from personal experience that
you did notice when Concorde went by
even inside a subsonic aircraft

Coasting out from the UK one day
In my 767 she went right over us in the
climb, we heard and felt the boom
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:52 am

[*]
JetBuddy wrote:
The Concorde amazes me. It was such a technological marvel for it's time. Watching those videos above just fill me with awe. It feels like aviation technology is moving along so slowly the last few decades, with just incremental improvements over time. Look at airliners in 1939, and then in 1969 when both Concorde and the 747 first flew. Gigantic leaps forward. We basically went from DC-3 to Concorde. Then look at 1988 and 2018. Same timespan, relatively small improvements.

Much of this is probably related to the technology achieved through WWII and the Cold War. But still. Sorry for a bit off-topic.


Yes, but....today’s airliner brings lots of hidden technology. First, the run up in fuel drove huge improvements in fuel burn in jet engines along with a quantum leap in reliability. Second, computer development drove cockpit technologies that are largely responsible for the safety record. TCAS and TAWS eliminated the two major hazards of 1969–mid-air collision and CFIT, which have disappeared. FBW controls is another improvement in safety and efficiency.

Yes, the Concorde was amazing, but who’d want to return to aviation of 1969.

GF
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:43 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
[*]
JetBuddy wrote:
The Concorde amazes me. It was such a technological marvel for it's time. Watching those videos above just fill me with awe. It feels like aviation technology is moving along so slowly the last few decades, with just incremental improvements over time. Look at airliners in 1939, and then in 1969 when both Concorde and the 747 first flew. Gigantic leaps forward. We basically went from DC-3 to Concorde. Then look at 1988 and 2018. Same timespan, relatively small improvements.

Much of this is probably related to the technology achieved through WWII and the Cold War. But still. Sorry for a bit off-topic.


Yes, but....today’s airliner brings lots of hidden technology. First, the run up in fuel drove huge improvements in fuel burn in jet engines along with a quantum leap in reliability. Second, computer development drove cockpit technologies that are largely responsible for the safety record. TCAS and TAWS eliminated the two major hazards of 1969–mid-air collision and CFIT, which have disappeared. FBW controls is another improvement in safety and efficiency.

Yes, the Concorde was amazing, but who’d want to return to aviation of 1969.

GF


Concorde did have TCAS.
It was retro-fitted, as it
was to a lot of planes.
Yes, I'd love to return to
the speed of those days.
I don't think Concorde was
particularly unreliable
either, especially considering
what it was.

At least in Boeing, a lot of
the stuff taken for granted
now really was being developed
for the Boeing 2707 SST.

Concorde was one of the
first passenger planes to
have fly by wire. It wasn't
only sophisticated because
of its speed, it brought a
lot of advances elsewhere that
are now very much common
on airliners today.
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:55 am

kyu wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
On a somewhat related note, if one was in a normal widebody cruising at .80 or greater, and the Concorde wizzed by at Mach 2, can anyone describe how fast that aircraft would have flown by the other aircraft? I know the Concorde would have been much higher, but just for conversation sake. You often see other airliners getting overtaken or overrun when inflight or on all the YouTube vids. So what if the other aircraft was the Concorde? How quickly would Mach 2 look from a jet going .80?

It would look like Mach 1.2.
No joke.


Anyone ever see another aircraft going the other way at cruise? It's pretty memorable if you do. I would imagine seeing the Concorde pass you would look something similar.
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:05 am

MatthewDB wrote:
kyu wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
On a somewhat related note, if one was in a normal widebody cruising at .80 or greater, and the Concorde wizzed by at Mach 2, can anyone describe how fast that aircraft would have flown by the other aircraft? I know the Concorde would have been much higher, but just for conversation sake. You often see other airliners getting overtaken or overrun when inflight or on all the YouTube vids. So what if the other aircraft was the Concorde? How quickly would Mach 2 look from a jet going .80?

It would look like Mach 1.2.
No joke.


Anyone ever see another aircraft going the other way at cruise? It's pretty memorable if you do. I would imagine seeing the Concorde pass you would look something similar.


I've never been looking for that, I'm usually trying to sleep - but I do remember back in Flight Simulator when we had a very realistic Concorde that flying online you'd always get someone making a funny remark about how fast you were going. Imagine if it was going the opposite direction! :eyepopping: No idea if people even still fly online in Flight Simulator anymore, been years and years since I've touched it.
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:56 am

I’ve seen the “merge plot” (ATC radar) of opposite direction UA 727 and a supersonic SR-71. The UA pilot was impressed, something like, “look at the SOB go”.

GF
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:23 am

MatthewDB wrote:
kyu wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
On a somewhat related note, if one was in a normal widebody cruising at .80 or greater, and the Concorde wizzed by at Mach 2, can anyone describe how fast that aircraft would have flown by the other aircraft? I know the Concorde would have been much higher, but just for conversation sake. You often see other airliners getting overtaken or overrun when inflight or on all the YouTube vids. So what if the other aircraft was the Concorde? How quickly would Mach 2 look from a jet going .80?

It would look like Mach 1.2.
No joke.


Anyone ever see another aircraft going the other way at cruise? It's pretty memorable if you do. I would imagine seeing the Concorde pass you would look something similar.


It is pretty common to see it from the cockpit. Closing speed of almost 1000 knots with 1000 foot separation. You often hear passing jets as well if the wind is right.
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:45 am

cpd wrote:
MatthewDB wrote:
kyu wrote:
It would look like Mach 1.2.
No joke.


Anyone ever see another aircraft going the other way at cruise? It's pretty memorable if you do. I would imagine seeing the Concorde pass you would look something similar.


I've never been looking for that, I'm usually trying to sleep - but I do remember back in Flight Simulator when we had a very realistic Concorde that flying online you'd always get someone making a funny remark about how fast you were going. Imagine if it was going the opposite direction! :eyepopping: No idea if people even still fly online in Flight Simulator anymore, been years and years since I've touched it.


Look up Vatsim - I just had a look and there are 211 pilots logged in. And thats light, I have seen thousands. You would be surprised, it's probably more popular now than in the past. And yes, there are even still Concordes that ply the airways!
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:11 pm

MatthewDB wrote:
kyu wrote:
trnswrld wrote:
On a somewhat related note, if one was in a normal widebody cruising at .80 or greater, and the Concorde wizzed by at Mach 2, can anyone describe how fast that aircraft would have flown by the other aircraft? I know the Concorde would have been much higher, but just for conversation sake. You often see other airliners getting overtaken or overrun when inflight or on all the YouTube vids. So what if the other aircraft was the Concorde? How quickly would Mach 2 look from a jet going .80?

It would look like Mach 1.2.
No joke.


Anyone ever see another aircraft going the other way at cruise? It's pretty memorable if you do. I would imagine seeing the Concorde pass you would look something similar.


Yeah, I was on an American Airlines MD80 flight one day from LAX to SFO, sitting on the right side at a window seat. I was just looking out at the ground to see if I could figure out what city that was 34,000 feet below and a few miles to the east of us, when suddenly I caught a *brief* glimpse of another AA MD80 "going the other way." As you said, it's memorable when you see it, just because the "other" MD80 caught me totally off-guard; I wasn't looking for nor expecting to see another airliner traveling at 500+ mph with just 1,000 feet of vertical separation between us (correct me if I'm wrong on that.) It took all of about 2 seconds from when I first saw the other MD80 in my vision until it passed behind my line of sight from the window seat.
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:16 pm

nighthawk wrote:
flapsdown40 wrote:

Perhaps along with that previous question is if the sonic boom was audible at sea level from aboard an ocean liner or commercial tanker or container ship sailing across the Atlantic if a Concorde jet just happened to pass overhead at Mach 1+?


It most certainly was.. here's a video from a ship as Concorde passes overhead.

It's also worth pointing out that the sonic boom doesn't just occur at the moment Concorde passes through the sound barrier, but follows behind the aircraft for the whole duration it travels above Mach 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbPh2llw0-M


Thank you so much for posting that video! The sonic boom was quite loud even at Concorde's altitude.
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:42 pm

eal wrote:
Perhaps an ignorant question, but did the boom follow the aircraft as it continued to fly? Or did the boom dissipate once Mach 1 was broken, furthermore, do supersonic planes produce a boom every time they break a Mach?


Alright, here I have some reading for you to do - rather a lot of it:

http://concorde.docs.free.fr/Pages/Form ... cueil.html

That's your theory lesson for today. Read the first part "Etudes et aérodynamique supersonique" and also read Section 4.
 
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Re: Concorde's sonic boom over the Atlantic back in the day

Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:25 am

flapsdown40 wrote:
Yeah, I was on an American Airlines MD80 flight one day from LAX to SFO, sitting on the right side at a window seat. I was just looking out at the ground to see if I could figure out what city that was 34,000 feet below and a few miles to the east of us, when suddenly I caught a *brief* glimpse of another AA MD80 "going the other way." As you said, it's memorable when you see it, just because the "other" MD80 caught me totally off-guard; I wasn't looking for nor expecting to see another airliner traveling at 500+ mph with just 1,000 feet of vertical separation between us (correct me if I'm wrong on that.) It took all of about 2 seconds from when I first saw the other MD80 in my vision until it passed behind my line of sight from the window seat.

Had a similar experience recently - I was trying to take a nice picture of the pyramids near Cairo when suddenly an Emirates 777 passed 1000ft below us...unfortunately the camera of the iPhone is not great for zooming in so the picture didn't look too good but its still nice to have the pyramids and a 777 in the same picture...
Its pretty common to have aircraft passing in the other direction 1000ft above or below and at some point you get used to it (you can see its on TCAS a couple of minutes before it happens so you can watch out for the other aircraft, so if you are bored in cruise at least you got something to do ;-) )...

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