Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
LPSHobby
Topic Author
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:14 pm

US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:54 pm

for some time yet we are reading here about the shortage of pilots in US for airlines, so i ask, what are the authorithies doing/thinking about to solve this problem? Any light in the end of the tunnel?

best wishes, Leonardo
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:00 pm

The authorities created the problem with the 1500 hour rule; that simple.
 
flydude380
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:43 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:03 pm

Reducing the 1,500 hour rule, I should hope!! :)
 
77H
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:11 pm

By authorities I assume you mean the government. They solve very few problems relative to the ones they create. See above posts.

77H
 
mikejepp
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:47 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:12 pm

Flighty wrote:
The authorities created the problem with the 1500 hour rule; that simple.


Ha! Yeah, right.

Because spending a decade decimating the piloting profession with pilots making below $20,000/yr and horrible schedules/working conditions didn't have anything to do with it?

For quite some time, even without the 1500 hour requirement, you had to have more than 1500 hours to get hired at an airline (including regional).... Airlines took advantage of the flood of pilots out there, desperate for a job, and completely destroyed the profession. Finally word got out that it wasn't worth it to become a pilot anymore. Too much effort and cost for too little reward. It just isn't sustainable putting tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a job where you qualify for food stamps.

And now the pilot supply is drying up because many individuals made wise choices and have chosen to go different paths with their lives.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5362
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:25 pm

LPSHobby wrote:
for some time yet we are reading here about the shortage of pilots in US for airlines, so i ask, what are the authorithies doing/thinking about to solve this problem? Any light in the end of the tunnel?

best wishes, Leonardo

Hopefully staying out of it at the point and letting the market correct itself.
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 687
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:35 pm

Economics, i.e. the market will fix it.
 
LPSHobby
Topic Author
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:14 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:39 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Economics, i.e. the market will fix it.



are you being ironic?
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2226
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:43 pm

The 'shortage' is only at the regional level, which shouldn't even exist in the first place. Delta has 16,000 applications on file, with a lower interview rate than Harvard.

Hopefully the regionals go kaputt and we return to normal service types (737's and A320's) not thousands of 50 and 70 seat RJ's, which is completely stupid and unsustainable.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6259
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:49 pm

There is not, and will not be, a pilot shortage at the best jobs, period. That’s the problem, not the ATP rule. As long as it’s a “winner take all” game, it will always be this. There will be pilots looking at $300,000 incomes at legacies and take $20,000 jobs in the hope they get the call.

Go look at APC forums, there’s HS kids looking for direction, 55 year early retirees trying to learn how to become an airline pilot in 3 years, and everything in between. Loads of guys leaving corporates, others trying to come back in aviation after a decade away. Salaries are up, way up in some areas. Corporates are really escalating pay, as are 135 operators and regionals.

Actually, RJs served and continue to serve a good purpose, giving the legacies (regionals are pretty much a legacy deal) with access to customers in small markets that couldn’t be economically served by a DC-9/737 flown at mainline costs. RJs kept a lot of those lines in business. Now, they are becoming an uneconomic problem.

GF
 
ShinyAndChrome
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:53 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:59 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
The 'shortage' is only at the regional level, which shouldn't even exist in the first place. Delta has 16,000 applications on file, with a lower interview rate than Harvard.

Hopefully the regionals go kaputt and we return to normal service types (737's and A320's) not thousands of 50 and 70 seat RJ's, which is completely stupid and unsustainable.


Regional airlines play an important role in any market as large and spread out as the US. Without them, a good swath of the country would be left with severely reduced or no airline service at all.

Now that’s not to say that the industry isn’t due for a structural reckoning. Clearly, the status quo is unsustainable and there will undoubtedly be an additional degree of consolidation in this space similar to what happened with the mainline carriers. But even in a more rational world, there will still be a place for 70 and even 50-seaters. Less hub-to-hub shuttles and slot squatting routes perhaps, but a greater emphasis on improving regional connectivity to smaller markets.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3483
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:11 pm

As a regional driver I can say that there is not a shortage of qualified pilots, there is a shortage of airlines who are willing to pay us for our skill set. Many people left the profession during the lost decade, and are now combing back due to the higher wages, but more needs to be done. I am worth more than $40/hr. Pay us and we will show up.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3402
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:13 pm

LPSHobby wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Economics, i.e. the market will fix it.



are you being ironic?


Not at all. The regionals that are paying decent money have no problem attracting talent. Regionals like Skywest that suddenly find themselves on both the lower end of pay and a declining performance standard are going to put themselves in a bad spot.
From my cold, dead hands
 
777PHX
Posts: 962
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:22 pm

If they continue paying second year regional FOs $60k/yr and second year major pilots six figures, the industry will correct itself in a hurry.
 
1900Driver
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:36 pm

The title is very misleading. Why the authorities? Rather.....What is the industry going to do about it?

Time to pay up or risk having planes grounded.
 
kiowa
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:08 pm

flydude380 wrote:
Reducing the 1,500 hour rule, I should hope!! :)


yup, why would you want experience? We should probably do away with medical school for doctors too. That would lower the cost of medical care.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5008
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:14 pm

mikejepp wrote:
Flighty wrote:
The authorities created the problem with the 1500 hour rule; that simple.


Ha! Yeah, right.

Because spending a decade decimating the piloting profession with pilots making below $20,000/yr and horrible schedules/working conditions didn't have anything to do with it?

For quite some time, even without the 1500 hour requirement, you had to have more than 1500 hours to get hired at an airline (including regional).... Airlines took advantage of the flood of pilots out there, desperate for a job, and completely destroyed the profession. Finally word got out that it wasn't worth it to become a pilot anymore. Too much effort and cost for too little reward. It just isn't sustainable putting tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a job where you qualify for food stamps.

And now the pilot supply is drying up because many individuals made wise choices and have chosen to go different paths with their lives.

And the military used to put of a ton of pilots and you could rent a 172 for 12 dollars an hour.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20280
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:01 am

777PHX wrote:
If they continue paying second year regional FOs $60k/yr and second year major pilots six figures, the industry will correct itself in a hurry.

As soon as small communities loose service, there will be a political will to allow more pilots into the service.

We've gone from unsustainable in one direction to the other. Either a compromise is reached, or the year regional service crashes the rules will dramatically shift to enabling a pilot surge.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
flydude380
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:43 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:20 am

kiowa wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
Reducing the 1,500 hour rule, I should hope!! :)


yup, why would you want experience? We should probably do away with medical school for doctors too. That would lower the cost of medical care.


I sense some sarcasm... Let's just say, look at Europe, Asia ( such as SQ) etc... where hiring pilots straight out of flight school is common.

It is just not the 1,500 hour rule causing issues. It is also the pay, terms and conditions!
 
gtae07
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:41 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:38 am

airtran737 wrote:
As a regional driver I can say that there is not a shortage of qualified pilots, there is a shortage of airlines who are willing to pay us for our skill set. Many people left the profession during the lost decade, and are now combing back due to the higher wages, but more needs to be done. I am worth more than $40/hr. Pay us and we will show up.


99% of the time, that's the problem. "There's a shortage of qualified people ..." means "we aren't willing to pay enough to entice people to get qualified and work here". If you want good people, you have to pay them.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2443
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:45 pm

there's more to it though there are many good posts here. I heard the chief pilot speak at a retiree's lunch last spring and one reason he noted was that being an airline pilot isn't cool anymore. This is caused by the overall problem that air travel isn't fun and one can list all the issues from the time you walk in the terminal. The military is trying to find a solution to their pilots leaving and very lucrative offers are being made to keep them.

as an aside I find it amusing that just before I retired there was all the fury and anger with the old guys staying until 65. there were many of heated arguments, and I'm being nice here, in the cockpit about not letting the junior guys progress up the ladder. The shortage started not long after.
 
777PHX
Posts: 962
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:30 am

CosmicCruiser wrote:
there's more to it though there are many good posts here. I heard the chief pilot speak at a retiree's lunch last spring and one reason he noted was that being an airline pilot isn't cool anymore. This is caused by the overall problem that air travel isn't fun and one can list all the issues from the time you walk in the terminal. The military is trying to find a solution to their pilots leaving and very lucrative offers are being made to keep them.

as an aside I find it amusing that just before I retired there was all the fury and anger with the old guys staying until 65. there were many of heated arguments, and I'm being nice here, in the cockpit about not letting the junior guys progress up the ladder. The shortage started not long after.


The profession certainly lost a lot of glamour when air travel stopped being a status symbol and started becoming a plain old commodity.

I think the military situation is going to take a while to correct itself however. I know several military guys that transitioned to the friendly skies because they were sick of being stuck on a boat for seven months of every two years or deployed to some god forsaken hellhole for half a year. It's quality of life for a lot of these guys, not the money. The problem sort of feeds into itself as the military struggles to retain pilots. Guys are getting deployed more, working harder, burning out quicker, etc. The military has a whole is suffering some serious fatigue from essentially being in conflict continuously since 2001. Guys are burning out, aircraft are aging much quicker than planned because increased of utilization, maintenance is struggling to keep overworked aircraft in the air, etc.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2443
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:34 am

that's possible what you say but all I've heard are guys ready to make some money.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8506
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: US shortage of pilots: what are the authorities doing?

Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:52 am

Most major airlines in the US want you
to have an ATP to even be considered


You have to have 1500 hours for an ATP
anyway and this is a minimum standard


The rule should not be changed, a decent
experience level is vital at this level
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: flyDTW1992, Haemoglobin and 23 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos