Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Armadillo1
Topic Author
Posts: 647
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:53 pm

Instead of tail?

just for split during boarding?
 
Croden
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:50 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:56 pm

I believe maybe it’s because the front of the plane is typically less noisy
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1198
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:02 pm

And they can get off first.
DH1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30/50/80 717 727 735/6/7/8/9 744 762/3 77E/W 788/789 E40/75/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150
J/S DH8D 736/7/8 763
 
User avatar
alex0easy
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:34 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:23 pm

I do believe in some turboprop planes where they board using the rear doors, the business class section is in the last row.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15716
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:39 pm

Why up front ? Less noise, better ride, usually first on/off, easier to segregate from coach and tradition.
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:44 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
Instead of tail?

just for split during boarding?


Regardless of where business/first class is they're still boarding first so it being in the front means most of the time they deplane first as well.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14414
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:21 am

alex0easy wrote:
I do believe in some turboprop planes where they board using the rear doors, the business class section is in the last row.


In props the rear is the quietest. So whether you board from the front or not, it's where you want to be.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2359
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:24 am

So they’re first off, silly.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3400
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:32 am

This hierarchy front-to-back is not followed all the time. BA has premium ECO in front of business class in some 747s. AF has some 777s where Premium ECO is placed in between a small Y section in the front and a large Y section in the back.

I heard of a proposal once to place business class over the wing because the space between doors 2 and 3 had the right size for the cabin. It was never rolled out though.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8946
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:40 am

On refurbished BA 747s J class is over the wing, it goes from door 2 to ahead of door 4. When I flew in J to JFK in October I was level with the trailing edge of the wing
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:50 am

Based on flying millions of miles in J and F .. IMO the first rows of A333s and lower deck 747s are the noisiest rows on the plane. The cabin noise drops significantly at about row 5 on an A333. The upper deck on the Queen... the best, even better than the 787 in F. I have no experience on a Whale.

IME, the cockpit is typically the noisiest "seating area".
 
alan3
Posts: 454
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:03 am

alex0easy wrote:
I do believe in some turboprop planes where they board using the rear doors, the business class section is in the last row.


What airlines have business class on Turboprops???
 
N766UA
Posts: 8394
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:36 am

Pretty sure the avionics and radar are in the nose...
 
User avatar
res77W
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:59 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:44 am

Doesn't CA have F behind J on the 748s?

-Rowen
 
User avatar
alex0easy
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:34 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:41 am

alan3 wrote:
alex0easy wrote:
I do believe in some turboprop planes where they board using the rear doors, the business class section is in the last row.


What airlines have business class on Turboprops???


Well, a couple of years ago I rode on a Okay Airways MA-60 (Chinese modernized An-24) in China. We boarded the plane from the left-side rear door.
Business class was in the last row, 1 row of 1+1 with a total of 2 seats. The front was regular economy class with 2+2 seating.
I remember there was actually one passenger in business class on our flight. He got bags of chips/peanuts and other soft drinks. Us economy passengers only got a bottle of water, which was placed on every seat before boarding. The only flight attendant remained hidden in the back behind a curtain during the entire flight.
Quite an interesting experience.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3601
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:53 am

res77W wrote:
Doesn't CA have F behind J on the 748s?

-Rowen


Indeed F is behind J, which create a phenomenon where Row 1 (F) is behind Row 11-15 (Lower deck J).

And their 744s are the same way also (Lower deck J is in front of Door 1 in the nose, F is between Door 1 and Door 2, rest is Y).

As for the original question - it has to do with tradition I believe, where higher classes are "up front".
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 3036
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:59 am

Interflug put business class behind door 2 on the IL-62M. One of the rarer configurations...
 
YIMBY
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:40 am

alan3 wrote:
alex0easy wrote:
I do believe in some turboprop planes where they board using the rear doors, the business class section is in the last row.


What airlines have business class on Turboprops???


I have been in an ATR-72 of SAS (subcontractor) with two class configuration, boarding from back door, first leg in lower class in the front and return in the higher class at the back. Not that much difference, and it was not a true business class, just normal 2+2 seating with a better snack. Actually the back seat was less comfortable because it was cold during the boarding. I would rather sit in the middle or front, just avoiding the propeller line.
 
Themotionman
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:18 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:00 am

It's the thought of arriving at one's destination before everyone else.
 
bananaboy
Posts: 1703
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:58 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:36 am

alan3 wrote:
alex0easy wrote:
I do believe in some turboprop planes where they board using the rear doors, the business class section is in the last row.


What airlines have business class on Turboprops???


A while back but I believe British Airways Express had Club Europe on their ATR's where Club was at the rear of the aircraft.

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
Mortyman
Posts: 5947
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:49 am

Isn't the tail / rear the safest place on an aircraft incase of crash ?
 
Obzerva
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:24 am

alan3 wrote:
alex0easy wrote:
I do believe in some turboprop planes where they board using the rear doors, the business class section is in the last row.


What airlines have business class on Turboprops???


I’ve flown an ATR with Eurolot RIX-WAW that had business class in the last few rows a few years ago to cite one example.
 
StTim
Posts: 3809
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:42 am

Mortyman wrote:
Isn't the tail / rear the safest place on an aircraft incase of crash ?


Statistically yes.
 
User avatar
neutrino
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:52 pm

alex0easy wrote:
I do believe in some turboprop planes where they board using the rear doors, the business class section is in the last row.

A long time ago in this galaxy, I had ridden in the rear premium section of the Fokker F-27 Friendship of MAS or Malaysian Airline System as it was operated under back then.
Entry was through the back door.

alan3 wrote:
What airlines have business class on Turboprops???

In a way you are right as far as the aforementioned F-27 was concerned (Assuming your question is a statement as well).
There was no Business Class back then yet in that part of the world. It was either Economy Class or the premium First Class.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
airbazar
Posts: 10380
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:11 pm

This is a little off topic but this thread raises an interesting question for me: when was the concept of first class introduced to airline travel?
IIRC, in the early days of commercial aviation airplanes were single class. Was F class introduced only in the jet age? Was it only with the launch of the 747?
I suspect that at least on the 747, first class was initially at the front because of the perceived "seclusion" and access to the upstairs lounge.
 
Birdwatching
Posts: 3711
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:48 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:47 pm

airbazar wrote:
This is a little off topic but this thread raises an interesting question for me: when was the concept of first class introduced to airline travel?
IIRC, in the early days of commercial aviation airplanes were single class. Was F class introduced only in the jet age?


Actually it was the other way around. What was added was the lowest class.

Basically in the days when there was only one class, it was a mix of everything. Food was usually very ample and would match today's first class, as was service in general. Seating was rather normal, flat bed seats were unheard of (except for sleeper service with dedicated bunk beds). In the 70s when mass tourism started and widebody airliners were available, airlines added a "tourist class" as it was called, with smaller seats and less service and food. It kind of branched off in 5 ways from there, with premium economy in the middle roughly resembling the one-class flights before the jet age and the business class that was introduced later, economy resembling the original tourist class, and business class resembling the sleeper flights. Plus we now have a fourth and fifth class above and below all of that: First class and LCC-style less-than-economy.
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:49 pm

airbazar wrote:
This is a little off topic but this thread raises an interesting question for me: when was the concept of first class introduced to airline travel?
IIRC, in the early days of commercial aviation airplanes were single class. Was F class introduced only in the jet age? Was it only with the launch of the 747?
I suspect that at least on the 747, first class was initially at the front because of the perceived "seclusion" and access to the upstairs lounge.

It was actually the other way around. Everything was First Class (or really just one class) then in the 1950s the wonderful new innovation of "Economy" (or "Coach" in the United States) started.

Originally aircraft were either one class or the other, then two class aircraft began in the later 1950s.

First Class was originally in the rear of propellar aircraft, (DC-7, Brittania, Vanguard, etc) as it was the quietest part of the aircraft, then with the advent of the jet age, First Class was placed in the front ... the quietest area.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:29 pm

"Why placing 1st/business class in nose?"

So the peons have to look at them as they board, you know they elite like to be seen being elite!
 
User avatar
NameOmitted
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:59 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:34 pm

StTim wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Isn't the tail / rear the safest place on an aircraft incase of crash ?


Statistically yes.


Respectfully, fridge have not been enough air crashes for statistically significant information to be available in this regard.
 
benbeny
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:19 pm

So their big wallets can absorb the impacts of an accident so people in cattle class can survive :D
 
StTim
Posts: 3809
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:56 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
StTim wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Isn't the tail / rear the safest place on an aircraft incase of crash ?


Statistically yes.


Respectfully, fridge have not been enough air crashes for statistically significant information to be available in this regard.



I was reading a report a few years back that looked at survivability compared to where you were sitting. I cannot remember all the details but I remember that one conclusion was the rear had a higher survivability rate. I think it may have been a study after Kegworth that led to changes in the brace position and seat design to improve survivability.
 
timz
Posts: 6581
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:19 pm

airbazar wrote:
IIRC, in the early days of commercial aviation airplanes were single class.

In 1940 United began carrying passengers SFO-BUR on 2-stop 247s for a lower fare than the DC-3s. Far as I know that was the first time passengers had a choice; that ended 1942. Coach flights resumed in 1948.

In the US, coach RPMs didn't exceed First until 1961.
 
Armadillo1
Topic Author
Posts: 647
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:04 pm

thanks to all, it helps a lot.

so nowadays the main issue is first to deplane, and a second is a tradition?
 
User avatar
neutrino
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:31 pm

Birdwatching wrote:
......It kind of branched off in 5 ways from there, with premium economy in the middle roughly resembling the one-class flights before the jet age and the business class that was introduced later, economy resembling the original tourist class, and business class resembling the sleeper flights. Plus we now have a fourth and fifth class above and below all of that: First class and LCC-style less-than-economy.

Based on what you detailed, there should be a sixth class at the top of the ladder; that of "beyond first class" such as SQ's Suites Class and "The Residence" of Etihad.
Ok, maybe Suites are F+ and Residences are F++ seeing that the latter even come with en-suite bathroom. Then, there's also the same Etihad's "Apartments" which look like sitting just below "Suites Class", but I digress.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
george77300
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:42 pm

Also on Emirates A380 in their two class aircraft economy is the front of the upper deck with all business class behind. (Yes this is so they can access the bar at the back but still interesting. Economy in front of Business is very rare.)
 
citationjet
Posts: 2577
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:07 pm

airbazar wrote:
This is a little off topic but this thread raises an interesting question for me: when was the concept of first class introduced to airline travel?
IIRC, in the early days of commercial aviation airplanes were single class. Was F class introduced only in the jet age? Was it only with the launch of the 747?
I suspect that at least on the 747, first class was initially at the front because of the perceived "seclusion" and access to the upstairs lounge.


I know that First class existed when the Boeing 707 was introduced. Braniff's 707-227 and 720-027 aircraft in 1960 were configured with 50 first class seats and 56 coach seats.
F class was introduced before the jet age. Braniff's DC-7C propeller aircraft had 32 First Class and 34 tourist class seat configurations.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
bhill
Posts: 1888
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:21 pm

They make better airbags...us peasants are too thin to cushion rapid decel appropriately.............................
Carpe Pices
 
LONGisland89
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:34 am

Re: Why placing 1st/business class in nose?

Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:41 pm

An interesting note are Edelweiss Air's A340's. Business cabin in located aft of 2L/R due to seating restrictions related to the emergency exit door type at 3L/R.
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Edelw ... 40-300.php

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GSOtoIND, mcoatc and 18 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos