Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Alexdk
Topic Author
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:08 pm

Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:21 pm

Why can the autopilot engagement/disengagement sounds be heard in the passenger cabin? Does it have something to do with keeping passengers alerted?
 
Redbellyguppy
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:14 pm

While the cockpit door is bulletproof, it isn't sound proof.
 
Alexdk
Topic Author
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:08 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:08 pm

Redbellyguppy wrote:
While the cockpit door is bulletproof, it isn't sound proof.

Yes, but the autopilot sound comes from the dynamics in the cabin unlike any other sounds which are only in the cockpit.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:47 pm

Yes you can hear the cockpit sounds in the cabin. I flew in the first row of an Embraer E190 recently, and I could clearly hear the cockpit sounds (autopilot, pitch-trim whooler, etc).
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4710
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:47 pm

I don't recall every hearing autopilot sounds in the cabin. I usually hear the ACARS system on the CRJ if I'm sitting somewhere close to the front. It uses the SELCAL notification. Usually can hear it when the door shuts and the pilot pops the brake to get an out time "SELL CALL, SELL CALL".
 
User avatar
tb727
Posts: 2288
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:17 pm

Alexdk wrote:
Why can the autopilot engagement/disengagement sounds be heard in the passenger cabin? Does it have something to do with keeping passengers alerted?


Why would passengers need to be alerted that the autopilot is off? I would imagine that if you are a nervous flier and hear the Airbus autopilot disconnect it could be a little disconcerting. You can hear that for the first 5-6 rows.
 
Alexdk
Topic Author
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:08 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:58 pm

tb727 wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
Why can the autopilot engagement/disengagement sounds be heard in the passenger cabin? Does it have something to do with keeping passengers alerted?


Why would passengers need to be alerted that the autopilot is off? I would imagine that if you are a nervous flier and hear the Airbus autopilot disconnect it could be a little disconcerting. You can hear that for the first 5-6 rows.

The whole point is that on Airbuses (I also heard it on CS300) the autopilot sounds come out of the the dynamics of the passenger cabin (the ones from which you hear the announcements, "fasten your seatbelts" sounds etc.). As I have found from other sources it is made to alert the cabin crew. As for the first rows, you could probably even hear the communications with the ATC from the first row if you have a very good hearing.
 
Adispatcher
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:19 pm

Alexdk wrote:
Why can the autopilot engagement/disengagement sounds be heard in the passenger cabin? Does it have something to do with keeping passengers alerted?


Because it is loud.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 12662
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:41 pm

Alexdk wrote:
The whole point is that on Airbuses (I also heard it on CS300) the autopilot sounds come out of the the dynamics of the passenger cabin (the ones from which you hear the announcements, "fasten your seatbelts" sounds etc.). As I have found from other sources it is made to alert the cabin crew.


What specific sounds are you referring to? What do they sound like?
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:56 pm

Alexdk wrote:
tb727 wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
Why can the autopilot engagement/disengagement sounds be heard in the passenger cabin? Does it have something to do with keeping passengers alerted?


Why would passengers need to be alerted that the autopilot is off? I would imagine that if you are a nervous flier and hear the Airbus autopilot disconnect it could be a little disconcerting. You can hear that for the first 5-6 rows.

The whole point is that on Airbuses (I also heard it on CS300) the autopilot sounds come out of the the dynamics of the passenger cabin (the ones from which you hear the announcements, "fasten your seatbelts" sounds etc.). As I have found from other sources it is made to alert the cabin crew. As for the first rows, you could probably even hear the communications with the ATC from the first row if you have a very good hearing.

I'm really not sure why you think it's coming from the cabin announcement system... The fact of the matter is, it's just loud, and it's the same on 737's. I had four flights last week on AA and I was in first on all of them, 2 738's and 2 321's. Each landing I could hear the autopilot disconnect sounds coming out of the cockpit. The doors aren't meant to be soundproof...
 
Woodreau
Posts: 2154
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:08 pm

The autopilot disconnect aurals definitely do not come out of the passenger address system

There is no reason why the passengers need to know

The only reason why you can hear them in the cabin is because the aurals are loud.

The flight crew have no ability to change the volume of the aurals
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16356
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:24 pm

The attention getters in the cockpit are also designed to work when a cockpit window is opened inflight for an emergency procedure. They have to compete with wind noise.

They have nothing to do with the cabin crew or the PA system.

It’s also nice to know when you go to the bathroom that the autopilot is still engaged.
 
CRJ900
Posts: 2410
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:13 am

Yeah, it's just loud. From my SCCM jump seat I can hear quite a lot from the cockpit, which is pretty useful for take-off and landing, it increases my situational awareness.

On some flights we get a lot of ACARS... DING DONG, DING DONG, DING DONG... :-I
 
User avatar
spiah
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:28 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:18 am

Alexdk wrote:
Why can the autopilot engagement/disengagement sounds be heard in the passenger cabin? Does it have something to do with keeping passengers alerted?

Man, even being well aware of what's going on, the autothrottle disconnect alarm always sounds disconcerting to me. I can't even imagine what a nervous flyer would think if they heard it.
 
Redbellyguppy
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:57 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:28 am

The manufacturer really wants you (the pilot) to know that the autopilot has disconnected. Like, no possible doubt about it. I'm guessing Eastern in the Everglades has something to do with that.
 
Max Q
Posts: 9066
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:39 am

Have spent many years commuting and pass riding on various aircraft
and airlines

What I really don’t like is hearing
‘sink rate’ and ‘terrain, terrain’
through the cockpit door


That is really loud and for good reason
 
Woodreau
Posts: 2154
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:52 am

Redbellyguppy wrote:
The manufacturer really wants you (the pilot) to know that the autopilot has disconnected. Like, no possible doubt about it. I'm guessing Eastern in the Everglades has something to do with that.


And then you get Embraer, where the airplane gets confused when you force it to sound two aurals at the same time, so instead of getting an autopilot disconnect aural and a runaway trim aural, it does neither and you don't hear any warnings.
 
Alexdk
Topic Author
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:08 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:14 am

vikkyvik wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
The whole point is that on Airbuses (I also heard it on CS300) the autopilot sounds come out of the the dynamics of the passenger cabin (the ones from which you hear the announcements, "fasten your seatbelts" sounds etc.). As I have found from other sources it is made to alert the cabin crew.


What specific sounds are you referring to? What do they sound like?

https://youtu.be/JR5__N9T7n4 7:09-7:16. I always thought that those sounds have something to do with the autopilot (although they are surely not the ones that the pilots hear).
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6632
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:23 am

vikkyvik wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
The whole point is that on Airbuses (I also heard it on CS300) the autopilot sounds come out of the the dynamics of the passenger cabin (the ones from which you hear the announcements, "fasten your seatbelts" sounds etc.). As I have found from other sources it is made to alert the cabin crew.


What specific sounds are you referring to? What do they sound like?


For Embaer and McDonnell Douglas, it’s a voice aural “AUTOPILOT”. Many Boeing airplanes inhibit the aural alert when the pilot intentionally disconnects it. The 737, 787, KC-46, and any other model for European customers have a Wailer Sound for 1 Second when the autopilot is intentionally disconnected.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6632
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:30 am

Redbellyguppy wrote:
The manufacturer really wants you (the pilot) to know that the autopilot has disconnected. Like, no possible doubt about it. I'm guessing Eastern in the Everglades has something to do with that.


Not quite. There’s a new FAR amendment that requires a unique aural when the Autopilor is disconnected, even intentionally. The European regulatory agencies have always required this.

The 777, 767, 757, and 747s for non European customers (a few others like CX followed the Europe convention too) will inhibit the warning siren if the A/P switch is double pushed, which they do when intentionally disconnecting it. An unintentional disconnect would still sound the siren aural.

Newer models have to sound an alert for at least one second, and it has to be unique from any other aural alerts even when intentionally disconnecting it.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16356
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:31 am

Alexdk wrote:
https://youtu.be/JR5__N9T7n4 7:09-7:16. I always thought that those sounds have something to do with the autopilot (although they are surely not the ones that the pilots hear).


Sounds to me they cycled the seat belt sign then selected gear down. When gear is selected down you hear that sound and the emergency exit signs illuminate.
 
Alexdk
Topic Author
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:08 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:26 am

zeke wrote:
Alexdk wrote:
https://youtu.be/JR5__N9T7n4 7:09-7:16. I always thought that those sounds have something to do with the autopilot (although they are surely not the ones that the pilots hear).


Sounds to me they cycled the seat belt sign then selected gear down. When gear is selected down you hear that sound and the emergency exit signs illuminate.

Well. My bad for mistaking it for the autopilot sound. But the passengers are indeed alerted at least about the gear down. Is it a thing only on Aeroflot or on all Airbuses? I am not sure if I heard it on any western airlines.
 
pikachu
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 5:58 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:55 am

[quote="zeke"]The attention getters in the cockpit are also designed to work when a cockpit window is opened inflight for an emergency procedure. They have to compete with wind noise.

What procedure calls for that?
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6488
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:14 pm

pikachu wrote:
zeke wrote:
The attention getters in the cockpit are also designed to work when a cockpit window is opened inflight for an emergency procedure. They have to compete with wind noise.

What procedure calls for that?

Removal of smoke/fumes

toward the end of the procedure...

If smoke persists,
- max speed 200 kt
- cockpit door - OPEN
- headsets - ON
- PM sliding window - OPEN

There is also a warning that in a noisy cockpit, to monitor visual warnings
 
User avatar
SAAFNAV
Posts: 636
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:41 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:41 pm

pikachu wrote:
zeke wrote:
The attention getters in the cockpit are also designed to work when a cockpit window is opened inflight for an emergency procedure. They have to compete with wind noise.

What procedure calls for that?


I don't know type specific, but probably Smoke & Fume Elimination, or windshield's cracked. You can open the Direct Vision window (called that so might have direct vision) and land by looking out if you have to.

I've flown with both cockpit windows open (C-130) at 180 KIAS. Hardly a difference in sound or airflow. But you do not want to side-slip the plane.
Also landed with the overhead escape hatch and paratroop doors open after a cargo fire.. So much dirt got blown into the plane during the reversing.
 
Flow2706
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:20 pm

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:07 pm

Alexdk wrote:
Well. My bad for mistaking it for the autopilot sound. But the passengers are indeed alerted at least about the gear down. Is it a thing only on Aeroflot or on all Airbuses? I am not sure if I heard it on any western airlines.

Yes you hear a chime when you put the gear down (talking about A320 Series not sure about other types). As far as I know this is related to the No Smoking Sign. Nowadays (No Smoking flights) the No Smoking Sign switch in the cockpit always remains in the Auto position (leaving them on all the time will prevent the emergency batteries from charging by system design). The CIDS (the computer that controls the cabin functions) is programmed for a no smoking flight, so the No Smoking signs will always be on independent of the position of the No Smoking Sign switch. However if you put the gear down with the No Smoking Sign switch in Auto it would (on an aircraft without the No Smoking option in the CIDS) illuminate the no smoking sign, the chime would therefore sound. I am not sure why we still have this chime, but I think its related to this...
Concerning the cycling of the seatbelt signs, this is dependent on the company procedures. In some companies its SOP to cycle the signs just before takeoff and landing (seatbelt sign off and on again) to advise the cabin crew that takeoff/landing is imminent and that they should start their silent review (but in other companies this is not done at all or replaced by a PA, f.e. "Cabin crew prepare for takeoff/landing").
The autopilot disconnect sound sounds differently, you can hear it in this video at 3:13: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSNE3SmYA-8 (this can also be heard in the forward cabin if you listen for it). Fun Fact: This sound was first used on Concorde, but is still used on Airbus (maybe that's one of the reasons why it's so loud - I can imagine that the flight deck on Concorde was quite noisy)...
 
phllax
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: Autopilot sound in cabin

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:53 pm

Flow2706 wrote:
Yes you hear a chime when you put the gear down (talking about A320 Series not sure about other types). As far as I know this is related to the No Smoking Sign. Nowadays (No Smoking flights) the No Smoking Sign switch in the cockpit always remains in the Auto position (leaving them on all the time will prevent the emergency batteries from charging by system design). The CIDS (the computer that controls the cabin functions) is programmed for a no smoking flight, so the No Smoking signs will always be on independent of the position of the No Smoking Sign switch. However if you put the gear down with the No Smoking Sign switch in Auto it would (on an aircraft without the No Smoking option in the CIDS) illuminate the no smoking sign, the chime would therefore sound. I am not sure why we still have this chime, but I think its related to this...


This would make sense, but I have never heard it on the legacy USAirways Airbus fleet, which replaced the no-smoking sign with a no PED sign, or on the legacy America West airbus fleet which has the no-smoking sign. There is a single chime at gear down which does illuminate the exit signs, but there is not a chime on gear up like on Delta and JetBlue.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: teachpdx and 15 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos