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ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:45 am
by Erfandean
Do airlines really care if you have ICAO English level 5 or 4? i'm not a native speaker so i can't get ICAO level 6 according to regulations.
but is it really an advantage having level 5 instead of level 4?

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:56 am
by flydude380
The higher the grade in something, the more better it is?

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:28 am
by SomebodyInTLS
flydude380 wrote:
The higher the grade in something, the more better it is?


:rotfl:

(Assuming that was intentional use of grammar... :? )

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:28 am
by Mangs
Erfandean wrote:
Do airlines really care if you have ICAO English level 5 or 4? i'm not a native speaker so i can't get ICAO level 6 according to regulations.
but is it really an advantage having level 5 instead of level 4?


I'm not a native speaker but I have ELP 6

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:42 am
by flydude380
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
flydude380 wrote:
The higher the grade in something, the more better it is?


:rotfl:

(Assuming that was intentional use of grammar... :? )


I’ve worked a night shift and don’t really pay attention to my grammar, when I am on internet time.

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:05 pm
by zrh177
I wonder what proficiency these guys had

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=max5aROuhlI

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:42 pm
by mjoelnir
Reading through the standards it does not seem a requirement to be a native speaker of English to reach level 6.
Aviation ELP test has/had little to do with the normal ELP test, completly different scoring system.

In nearly all other areas but aviation, ELP has been replaced by TOEFL, TOEIC or IELTS. (see also ACT or SAT)

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:48 pm
by iRISH251
zrh177 wrote:
I wonder what proficiency these guys had

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=max5aROuhlI


I assume you are including the controller also.

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:22 pm
by SAAFNAV
flydude380 wrote:
The higher the grade in something, the more better it is?


If you have ICAO Level 6 proficiency, you do not need to re-test at certain intervals as per the lower levels.

For the OP: Go to an accredited ICAO language tester for the assessment.

I did mine, since although I'm bi-lingual, my first (home) language at school is Afrikaans and second language was English.
Even though I got a distinction at school, it didn't count.

The test is supposed to be fair, and more conversation driven. You lead the examiner, and he/she will base their decision regarding your technical ability.
Also, it is aviation oriented, and not everyday or Shakespearean English, so prepare yourself for some circuit pattern-type scenarios.

If you get less than level 6, you just need to repeat the test every x years, so employment should not be an issue.

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:37 pm
by Starlionblue
As SAAFNAV says the advantage of level 6 is not having to re-test at specified intervals.

Erfandean wrote:
Do airlines really care if you have ICAO English level 5 or 4? i'm not a native speaker so i can't get ICAO level 6 according to regulations.
but is it really an advantage having level 5 instead of level 4?


Why can't you get Level 6 according to the regs? It has nothing to do with background; only ability. In simple terms, it is not "native speaker", it is "native speaker level"., In my experience that doesn't include having to sound English, American, Australian, Kiwi or whatever.

I'm not a native English speaker, as in neither of my parents are from an English speaking country, nor did I grow up in an English speaking country nor did I go to school in English until high school. I still got level 6 without any difficulty.

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:32 pm
by Erfandean
Starlionblue wrote:
As SAAFNAV says the advantage of level 6 is not having to re-test at specified intervals.

Erfandean wrote:
Do airlines really care if you have ICAO English level 5 or 4? i'm not a native speaker so i can't get ICAO level 6 according to regulations.
but is it really an advantage having level 5 instead of level 4?


Why can't you get Level 6 according to the regs? It has nothing to do with background; only ability. In simple terms, it is not "native speaker", it is "native speaker level"., In my experience that doesn't include having to sound English, American, Australian, Kiwi or whatever.

I'm not a native English speaker, as in neither of my parents are from an English speaking country, nor did I grow up in an English speaking country nor did I go to school in English until high school. I still got level 6 without any difficulty.


I actually live in Ukraine, here even in my flight school i'm told that we can't get level 6, not only that, i've even been told about this where i took the exam, so basically we can't get level 6 in Ukraine regardless (only level 4 or 5).

it might be a regulation from SAA of Ukraine not ICAO itself.

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:40 am
by Starlionblue
Sounds like it. The fact that you are not a native English speaker, as in grew up on an English speaking country or had English speaking parents, should not preclude you from getting level 6.

I'll also note that "ICAO level 6" is not as standard as it sounds. I don't think ICAO even has a testing standard, just a language proficiency standard.

Look at what the UK CAA says, "The UK CAA can only endorse English language proficiency levels on the licences that we issue." and "Assessments conducted in other EASA member states... These are only acceptable as part of a change of state application."

https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviation/Pilot-licences/Applications/Documentation/Language-proficiency/

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:21 am
by Phosphorus
Fellow Ukrainian here.
I'd wager a guess -- there's no way to get level 6, simply because there's nobody to test you for level 6.

Plus, with level 6 certification, you are no longer paying for exams. That's bad for (their) business.

Re: ICAO English language proficiency

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:59 pm
by HAWK21M
Higher Grade is obviously an advantage as is in most places, thats why I said most :)