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aemoreira1981
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:08 am

With people demanding lower costs out of governments, I could definitely see countries switching to smaller aircraft with TATL range to reach JFK, and with the A319neo basically dead in the water, I could see the ACJ320neo and ACJ321neo being pushed. Italy recently dumped its A340-500 and returned to its A319s. Germany still has large planes, but they were acquired secondhand from LH (and LH recently sold them an older A321).
 
cpd
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:13 am

26point2 wrote:
Those diagrams really bug me. There’s a fly in the ointment.


Someone get a can of Mortein and get rid of these flies for good.
Mods - any thoughts on this.

I really think the best market for these business jets is governments, but even they aren't going to be buying them in big numbers, because of voter outrage.

keesje wrote:
I guess it should be in front of the cabin, because it is most quiet there.


Keesje, you've been around this site for a long time, you should use the photoid function to link the photo. The way you've done it is like those sites that hot link to others photos.

 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:24 pm

Airstairs would be an option on a ACJ321LR too. For speed and independence on smaller airports.

Image

As discussed an ACJ321LR would offer 7 meters of additional cabin over an ACJ320NEO.

4-5 seatrow could be included for entourage. Cuban8 mentioned :

besides the time convenience and comfort, one of the main advantages for governments to fly private is highly related to it’s entourage. Security details (with arms), advisors, PR department etc are quite difficult to accommodate in first class on a short time notice.


Maybe 4 rows of 2-2 or 2-3 at 40 inch pitch?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:36 pm

It almost feels like i am reading an advertisement for the A321. However from reading the posts it doesnt sound like there are any actual orders for the A321LR ACJ.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:40 pm

cpd wrote:
26point2 wrote:
Those diagrams really bug me. There’s a fly in the ointment.


Someone get a can of Mortein and get rid of these flies for good.
Mods - any thoughts on this.

I really think the best market for these business jets is governments, but even they aren't going to be buying them in big numbers, because of voter outrage.

keesje wrote:
I guess it should be in front of the cabin, because it is most quiet there.


Keesje, you've been around this site for a long time, you should use the photoid function to link the photo. The way you've done it is like those sites that hot link to others photos.



I wonder what the point of all these photos is. I have no doubt queen size beds and lots of seats can be put in the plane. Just because a plane can be configured a certain way doesnt mean it has a market
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:48 pm

keesje wrote:
The Airbus ACJ family has been produced in small quantities over the last decade.

As far as I know no ACJ varaint of the A321LR variant has been offered yet.

It's additional range and space might make it large for private owners & charters,

97t MTOW, 3 ATC's (maybe 4) would give a respectable range. Which is most important for this category.

For governments it might be an attractive alternative for high cost widebody aircraft.


Newbiepilot wrote:
It almost feels like i am reading an advertisement for the A321. However from reading the posts it doesnt sound like there are any actual orders for the A321LR ACJ.


Good observation Newbie, it was the 2nd sentence in the OP.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:05 pm

keesje wrote:
keesje wrote:
The Airbus ACJ family has been produced in small quantities over the last decade.

As far as I know no ACJ varaint of the A321LR variant has been offered yet.

It's additional range and space might make it large for private owners & charters,

97t MTOW, 3 ATC's (maybe 4) would give a respectable range. Which is most important for this category.

For governments it might be an attractive alternative for high cost widebody aircraft.


Newbiepilot wrote:
It almost feels like i am reading an advertisement for the A321. However from reading the posts it doesnt sound like there are any actual orders for the A321LR ACJ.


Good observation Newbie, it was the 2nd sentence in the OP.


A 4 month thread was resurrected, so many things could have happened since the OP if Airbus was actively trying to sell an A321LR ACJ.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:21 pm

The A321N just gained certification for -LR modifications.....wonder how long before a first order for the ACJ version is placed? :scratchchin:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ns-452359/

Quote:
"Certification of the A321LR covers approval to install the three optional fuel tanks, along with the related structural reinforcement and new fuel-management systems.

It also includes modifications to the fuselage, following the reconfiguration of exit doors, as well as clearance to operate at a maximum take-off weight of 97t.

While the new door configuration will be standard on A321neos, the fuel system and structural changes for additional tank carriage will need to be specified by customers in advance."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:11 pm

Devilfish wrote:
The A321N just gained certification for -LR modifications.....wonder how long before a first order for the ACJ version is placed? :scratchchin:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ns-452359/

Quote:
"Certification of the A321LR covers approval to install the three optional fuel tanks, along with the related structural reinforcement and new fuel-management systems.

It also includes modifications to the fuselage, following the reconfiguration of exit doors, as well as clearance to operate at a maximum take-off weight of 97t.

While the new door configuration will be standard on A321neos, the fuel system and structural changes for additional tank carriage will need to be specified by customers in advance."


I think an 101t A321ACJ even more can provide a excellent MoM alternative for replacing WB aircraft government fly these days because of range requirements. I offers extra capacity / options above the 737BBJ/ ACJA319 used these days. Better meeting / sleeping capability for more more at half the cost of a WB.

When an A321XLR is launched this is even improves the non stop range capability with 30-50 passengers. Maybe the dutch government was slightly too early with their new BBJ under construction..

https://newstage.com.ng/2018/12/20/update-1-airbus-tests-market-for-a321xlr-jet-launch-by-mid-2019-sources/

Of course, a TU-154 is way cooler :tongue2: , but you have to think about other factors too... https://youtu.be/F9ixCSrQpzE
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:43 pm

Thnx moderator tys777 to unlock / move this thread

I think the new 101t extended range XLR provides new interesting options for e.g. government use

The ACJ319 had space limitations, the ACJ320 range / payload limitations (-1000NM)

An ACJ321XLR could provide a affordable alternative for e.g. a far more expensive government WB.

With it's light payload and addition ACT's, a 101t MTOW, an ACJ321XLR is probably is good for 11-12 hour flights.

Making it feasible for most flights to/from Asia, or global with a single stop.

Image
A321 XLR
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
tys777
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:15 pm

FYI,

Thread bump was moderator approved.

Thank you
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:27 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
You will be surprised to know a third world democratic country has
2 x 77Ws ($580 Million)
3 x BBJs ($1 Billion)
6 x E-Jets ($500?? Million)
12 x Mi-17 V5s. ($750 Million)
3 x 744s (about to be retired)


BBJ's don't cost $330M each. Why do you think that? What's your source?

The first link says they are about $90M each including interior, and the second says about $95M

https://corporatejetinvestor.com/articl ... ors-guide/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Business_Jet

Why do you think the Mi-17's cost $65M each. When India bought 71 Mi-17's in 2012, they cost $18M each (without interior). Can I get a source that 12 Mi-17s cost $750M?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17#Operators
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:30 am

The BBJ has a software modification that allows for higher cabin pressurization (since it will have so fewer cycles).

Is this a significant factor in the market? And does Airbus do anything similar?

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2002-09-09 ... er-Comfort
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:42 pm

keesje wrote:
An ACJ321XLR could provide a affordable alternative for e.g. a far more expensive government WB.

With it's light payload and addition ACT's, a 101t MTOW, an ACJ321XLR is probably is good for 11-12 hour flights.

Making it feasible for most flights to/from Asia, or global with a single stop.


WB vs NB platform cost may not be that different when you consider the SPS refits.

But this plane completely voids the need for a separate WB fleet. The same plane can go anywhere, from a short trip within the country to long-distance international travel, and to much less expensive small airports.

Savings will be huge if one can look beyond the measuring contest.
 
WIederling
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:54 pm

VV wrote:
Okay, so I would like to ask another "interesting" question.
Is Boeing going to launch NMA Business Jet?


Missing prerequisite: NMA :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
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Re: Airbus Corporate Jet ACJ321LR, Scheduled ?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:59 pm

keesje wrote:
A321 XLR


IMU one could order the ACJ319 with ACTs to boot. 6? 7?

Nothing should prohibit the same option for an ACJ321NEO.
For the ACJ use LR, XLR properties are just gimmick. You'll never max out payload?
Murphy is an optimist

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