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readytotaxi
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Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Refreshing the cockpit.

Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:00 am

With many aircraft in service longer as with the BA 747 fleet I was wondering how often the cockpit would get a clean/make over? Does it only happen during a C or D check or when the main cabin gets a make over? Curious.
 
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DocLightning
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:45 pm

In general, OEMs need to be very careful about making too many changes to a cockpit because you want the crew of a 747 to be able to fly it based on the same training and certification. It's not that this can't be done, but common training and certification are key. It's very different than refreshing the cabin because passengers do not need any training to fly (unless you call the safety briefing training).

That said, there have been some radical redesigns to cockpits that have preserved common type ratings. The 737NG cockpit was wildly different from the 732 and yet had the same type rating. There's a new 757 cockpit upgrade that replaces the majority of mechanical gauges and indicators with large LCD screens. But it takes a lot of careful attention to detail to make sure that a 757 pilot accustomed to the original cockpit can fly the new cockpit with minimal or no retraining.
 
gregorygoodwin
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Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:01 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:29 pm

If you mean getting a new decor to match a cabin upgrade, I would say never. I work in structures for FedEx, we do a inspection of the flight deck every B-check and I'm sure it is done on C and D checks also. If anything is damaged or worn, it gets repaired or replaced. Things like flight deck panels are usually made of thermoset plastics or very light weight composite sandwich construction and have numerous compound curves and cut-outs to fit around the area they are made for. Because of this, they are difficult to repair and expensive. If you order a replacement, it will come in the manufacturers original color scheme for that ship. Boeing is usually a tan or light brown color, Airbus is usually a gray color. There is no variations to the color scheme and it may be a aircraft configuration item that can't be changed. But these panels are only replaced if there is a need, such as damage or deterioration, not for aesthetic reasons. The flight deck is cleaned at each B check where I work by a crew that cleans our aircraft. This is sweeping and wiping down fingerprints and smudges and such but they don't remove panels and clean behind them. Whenever we remove a panel for maintenance, the technician should clean any dust or debris out before reinstalling the panel. And yes, some flight decks will acquire a well worn look after so many years of service. Our ships, for the most part, are in very good shape due to the constant inspections and upgrades we do to the flight deck systems.

Gregory
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:22 pm

I remover watching a documentary (Possibly the on on the BA 747) where worn out switches and such were replaced. Cockpits do get taken care of at some airlines for sure. Slightly off topic but I cannot believe BBD has yet to give the CRJ LCD screens.
 
Max Q
Posts: 9066
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:27 am

DocLightning wrote:
In general, OEMs need to be very careful about making too many changes to a cockpit because you want the crew of a 747 to be able to fly it based on the same training and certification. It's not that this can't be done, but common training and certification are key. It's very different than refreshing the cabin because passengers do not need any training to fly (unless you call the safety briefing training).

That said, there have been some radical redesigns to cockpits that have preserved common type ratings. The 737NG cockpit was wildly different from the 732 and yet had the same type rating. There's a new 757 cockpit upgrade that replaces the majority of mechanical gauges and indicators with large LCD screens. But it takes a lot of careful attention to detail to make sure that a 757 pilot accustomed to the original cockpit can fly the new cockpit with minimal or no retraining.




I think the poster is talking about cleaning
the cockpit, not modifying/ upgrading it
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:35 am

Yeah I agree with Max Q. I took from the OPs post that he is talking about a thorough cleaning...to the point where things may be taken apart and put back together.

It’s a good question because with certain amount of use things can definitely wear out. I remember seeing pictures of MD80/DC9 flight decks where the control yokes looked disgusting and totally worn out/dirty.
 
kabq737
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Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:32 am

How about cockpit seats? Do those get replaced after being sat on for thousands of hours?
 
Max Q
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:06 am

kabq737 wrote:
How about cockpit seats? Do those get replaced after being sat on for thousands of hours?



The seats stay but the cushions will be swapped out
 
Max Q
Posts: 9066
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:10 am

trnswrld wrote:
Yeah I agree with Max Q. I took from the OPs post that he is talking about a thorough cleaning...to the point where things may be taken apart and put back together.

It’s a good question because with certain amount of use things can definitely wear out. I remember seeing pictures of MD80/DC9 flight decks where the control yokes looked disgusting and totally worn out/dirty.



The MD80 cockpit did not stand up very well to normal wear and tear



Nearly all of ours had a scarred, scratched and generally beat up appearance


They weren’t young aircraft by the time I was flying them but I came off the B727
which was considerably older yet the cockpits still looked pretty good considering, as was characteristic of the aircraft, it was rugged in every respect


Inside and out !
 
acmx
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:49 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:39 pm

kabq737 wrote:
How about cockpit seats? Do those get replaced after being sat on for thousands of hours?


Seat cushions and covers get changed as they wear out. Either on the line or during checks. And the seats are repaired whenever components break. The two places I worked heavy check at both had seat shops. They would usually take the seats at the start of the check and do a detailed inspection and repair them. They were both in house c checks, I’m not sure what would happen an mro. it would depend what the customers work cards say and to how detailed they get.

As far as the interior, moonmat was typically changed at c check, or the carpets were cleaned if it has it. And damaged/worn linings or panels may be touched up or repaired. A lot of the time it depends on the operator, things can be worn in appearance but be perfectly serviceable still.

Where I’m at now, a light cleaning is scheduled every couple days I think when it comes through a hub. A more detailed cleaning happens when they go into the hangar for lighter checks and at the end of heavy checks.
 
Max Q
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Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:48 pm

acmx wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
How about cockpit seats? Do those get replaced after being sat on for thousands of hours?


Seat cushions and covers get changed as they wear out. Either on the line or during checks. And the seats are repaired whenever components break. The two places I worked heavy check at both had seat shops. They would usually take the seats at the start of the check and do a detailed inspection and repair them. They were both in house c checks, I’m not sure what would happen an mro. it would depend what the customers work cards say and to how detailed they get.

As far as the interior, moonmat was typically changed at c check, or the carpets were cleaned if it has it. And damaged/worn linings or panels may be touched up or repaired. A lot of the time it depends on the operator, things can be worn in appearance but be perfectly serviceable still.

Where I’m at now, a light cleaning is scheduled every couple days I think when it comes through a hub. A more detailed cleaning happens when they go into the hangar for lighter checks and at the end of heavy checks.




What is ‘moonmat’ AC ?
 
acmx
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:49 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:43 am

It’s the vinyl flooring you see in some flight decks and in galleys. I don’t know where the name came from but it’s the only thing I’ve heard it called, it was probably a brand at some point. I googled “moon mat aircraft” and the name showed in the first site description, but I couldn’t get it to open. Other sites came up for the same kind of flooring but they didn’t use that name. I saw coin mat on there, which describes it better because of all the coin size circles all over it. It has to get peeled up to remove floor boards for access during heavy checks and new stuff usually gets put back down from what I’ve seen.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:46 am

acmx, welcome to a.net.
 
Max Q
Posts: 9066
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:45 am

acmx wrote:
It’s the vinyl flooring you see in some flight decks and in galleys. I don’t know where the name came from but it’s the only thing I’ve heard it called, it was probably a brand at some point. I googled “moon mat aircraft” and the name showed in the first site description, but I couldn’t get it to open. Other sites came up for the same kind of flooring but they didn’t use that name. I saw coin mat on there, which describes it better because of all the coin size circles all over it. It has to get peeled up to remove floor boards for access during heavy checks and new stuff usually gets put back down from what I’ve seen.




Okay, thanks for the information
 
slcguy
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:19 pm

Moon mats and coin mats both make sense, the round circular indentations in them for traction could look like moon craters or coin impressions.
 
slcguy
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:20 pm

Moon mats and coin mats both make sense, the round circular indentations in them for traction could look like moon craters or coin impressions.
 
slcguy
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:21 pm

Sorry about the double post, the a.net forum is tricky but not difficult like their search functions!
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:00 pm

Nothing like a brand new airplane that has that new car feel and smell. Give it a year or so of service and it looks like trash hauler in most cases.
 
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Starlionblue
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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

Re: Refreshing the cockpit.

Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:49 am

BravoOne wrote:
Nothing like a brand new airplane that has that new car feel and smell. Give it a year or so of service and it looks like trash hauler in most cases.


Doing a walkaround on a week-old plane, we remarked on how the spotless gear bays gleaming with polished metal looked a bit weird compared to their usual dragged-through-the-dirt appearance. :D

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